We used treated poles and painted on roofing tar on bottoms and up a foot over concrete slab.

Thank You for posting this . It is a grreat find for anyone wanting a pole barn !

You just expanded my mind.

I live on the top of a hill, when I built my pole barn, excellent drainage. I followed the locals, and dug as deep as I could with a skid steer auger, poured some crushed stone at the base, and then filled in with drainable/compactible dirt fill. I have had zero movement, no rot, no issues so far. (about a decade and a half) my poles were 4 thicknesses of .40 PT 2x6's, stainless nails below ground, steel nails above 4" up. I staggered the PT with KD above ground, 4 different lengths, Prior to applying shiplap pine vertical I lag bolted the posts every 2' (in addition to nails.

Excellent visuals

Great video. I use cored block piers or charred and tarred in ground on a cement cookie. Do keep in mind masonry below grade can become water logged if it can't dry out. So soil conditions play a big factor in in choice of a foundation.

Very informative. Thanks!

Great options!!

Video was rad thanks for the knowledge man

Sweet information

i toss a bag of sakrete in the bottom of the hole and stand the post on it and pack stone and dirt around it tight. been doing it that way for 30+ years. i have also coated the bottom of the post with roofing tar below grade but that adds to the cost and time.

Thank you, excellent explanation of options.

I got the link from your description Post Protector I will order some

I have used a technique where I take an "I" beam which goes into the concrete (with mud hooks) and sticks up about 4' above grade. I drill about 4 holes through the web and then I have the ability to through-bolt wood uprights to the top of the pole barn. In this way there is a firm foundation and no wood touches the dirt. All that is needed is to ensure that the "I" beam is level (done while the concrete is wet).

Should have also shown the dry set version along side option 1, or as a stand alone since it is useful for footing wall type foundations for rodent prone areas or a pole barn with crawl space and wood flooring.

I know someone who is building a 60x42 foot shop. The site is fairly far north in the Canadian Prairies, where buried water and sewer lines are typically put at a minimum depth of 8 feet to keep them from freezing. The engineering drawings for this shop indicate 18-inch concrete piles 8 feet long with 4 ply 2x8 laminated pressure treated columns set 6 feet into the concrete (method 3 in the video). The builder told the owner to just auger the holes to 8 feet, tamp 2 feet of 3/4-inch crushed gravel into the bottom of the hole, place the post on top of that and then pack 3/4-inch crushed gravel around the post to fill the rest of the auger hole. The shell of the building has now been built according to the builder's instructions. I'd be interested to hear if Milmar or anyone else might have any comments on setting posts in gravel like what they have done in this case. The site is at the top of a hill where there is good drainage and where the water table in a nearby water well is 65 feet below grade so I am expecting that the posts will be in fairly dry ground.

Coat poles with coppertox up to two feet (termite control); Coat end grain with tar (moisture control); Attach pole to a galvalume support on concrete footings 6in above grade. Southern old school method lasts 50 years.

on 2,4,5 are you just filling in with fill dirt? Wish you would have mentioned that however it seems from the images you are filling in with dirt? Do you have a link where to get the metal sleeve on number 2 or the brand name? I appreciate this video i was about to do this wrong my thoughts before watching this video was to do what number 3 showed. I thought for sure putting it on a solid concrete foundation that was about 4 inches solid than placing the post on top and filling it with about 2 ft of concrete was the best idea but am surprised it's not according to this video

Good explanation Jack!

Here in Minnesota I'm building a 42x56. I believe I'll be coating the posts with roofing tar, and adding rain gutters to keep most of the rain away from the building.

Subscribed!

Thanks for putting this all in one place! I really like the idea of the plastic sleeve, but what keeps water from collecting between the sleeve and post? We have really wet ground here.

Thanks COOP ...

I've put the posts in square steel tube. And bolt it 2' inside the tube. The posts has 2 L brackets to site the posts to height you need or want. But fill the tube to with gravel to the height want this will help with water and weights on the roof for different type of weather. Most people dont do this because of the cost and time . Even drilling the holes

Wet set brackets is the best way

Perfect

If one chooses to use #4 and sleeve the post, is compacting soil the best option? Or could one use concrete, as in #3 since the post is now protected from debris and water getting in by the sleeve? If one is using the sleeve, which fill would be stronger or more permit friendly (obviously that would depend on location, but in general)?

Because of soil conditions in my area which include boulders, drilled footings would have been expensive . I went with a poured slab with a thickened edge that with brackets bolted to it and the posts. Made for a perfectly squared and level building and all wood above ground.

What would you suggest for a really tiny pole barn? I'm making a lean-to shed thats going to be about 8x12. I want to build it like a pole barn, so I can add a cement slab later. It'll be used as a garden shed (garden and lawn tools, lawn mowers, etc)

Will moisture collect in the Post Protector sleeves? I hear some people drill a hole in the bottom, but it seems that would just allow water and dirt up into the sleeve. Maybe the post being damp below grade inside the sleeve is okay since the treatment can't leave the wood. I'm building in a low-lying area where the clay soil can be seasonally boggy.

Would have been good to also mention the massive difference in lateral strength between the first 3 compared to the last three. More "structural" members are required to prevent "racking" if the pole/post is split between above/below grade. A local contractor lost an entire 60x80 building using the first method during construction because they framed the building, and installed the metal roofing before doing anything with the wall "girts" and sheathing/metal. A brief gust of wind grabbed the open roof and the entire building "racked" and collapsed in the one direction. Each post failed in some fashion at the anchors and base of the post. some split the post, some pulled the anchor loose from the concrete... It changed my sequence of construction when building...

We’re getting the 1st one permanent column. Great idea compared to the old days.

Is it ok to pour concrete around the post protector sleeve? ... So, you'd have a first pour of concrete for the footing at the bottom, 6 inches maybe, then place the post, then pour around the post maybe just a couple of feet up. Would that be more secure than just having dirt around it?

I'm trying a rammed car tire stack with rebar. The post sits on the first rammed tire that clears the ground surface and a further two tires keep the post from moving. Tires are rammed with a mix of stones and sand using a pneumatic rammer. The rebars keep the stack together. Its cheap and super strong and no need for forms. Negative is a raised floor height but floor can sit on the tires.

I have a couple questions. On the third example, can the concrete be poured with an above ground casing so the concrete is above where water could get in? Wouldnt that prevent any rot at all? Also, in the last example, does it need rebarb in the base of it? And then, is it just back filled with same dirt or does it need to be something else added in?

Question: Can you combine building a pole barn construction but pier & beam base? I have researched without success. We want to build a 24x24 2 story cabin. The best property view would be about 3’ off the ground to clear the view from a nearby property fence. Hope this makes sense. Thank you!

I've been thinking about this issue for some time, wanting to get the best residential post frame solution for the cost. The components necessary for rot are food source, oxygen, moisture, and temperature. Rot occurs in untreated posts from +2/-12 inches relative to grade, because this is where the combination of all factors is present. If you apply a plastic sleeve, it seems important to drill a small hole in the bottom so that accumulated water can escape. Also if you want uplift protection you need drill bolts at multiple sites through the sleeve so that it adheres to the post. At which point there are two ways near the base of the post for water to (over the years) enter/exit. Because the sleeve is not airtight: warm, oxygen-rich air from the surface can make its way down. So while you are separating the post from soil, the conditions may be viable for rot not only near the surface but throughout the length of the buried post. Would it therefore make sense to air-seal around the top of the post-protector to prevent surface-level air from reaching the bottom of the post?

Can you make your own posts then choose one of this options? With three 2x6’s sandwiched together. I would do pt wood the bottom 6 feet approximately. My poles will be 22 ft in length for a loft. Glue and nails if so, Or just nails?

The structural requirements of a buildings foundation when considering piers is based more in the piers footprint width then the depth.

Have Existing Pull Barn (built mid 1990's - I believe 1997 based on permits) with 10 foot single sliding door. Pole Barn is a 40X40. I would like to add an additional sliding door (same size) directly opposite this door. This will aid in pulling in and pulling out trailers, popup campers, etc. Not to mention provide good cross ventilation. I believe, from looking things over, one 4X6 structure pole will be removed and a new one slid over like 2 feet. A like cross board (from memory 2X12) put in place overhead etc (Similar to other door). The question is I have a EarthQuake post hole Digger (2 person) that can dig a 10 inch hole about 50 inches. I also have a 8 inch auger bit similar size. Is that wide and deep enough (8 or 10inch) or should I rent larger equipment for this one hole dig? I was planning on a concrete around pole approach for this single pole. I am not certain if they make smaller pads then 14 inch. (What I see at local hardware store).

The best option is a 8" sonotube with a big base of 24" at the bottom with 3 bended steel rod in it and on the top sturdy wall braket! The concrete end about a feet and a half from the ground.

I'm looking at doing option #3 for a cheap style pole barn (24x12) that I want to use a a garage/workshop with a dirt floor for maybe 2-4 years. Humidity is under 30% year round with only 4 inches of rain a year. Any reasons to spend more going for option 1 or 2?

Good video I'm planning a log pavilion,going to use pine logs ,about 10 to 12 inch in diameter,any suggestions on how to place the logs on the concrete footer, pavilion will be 20'x20' gravel base and stone pavers ,reason will cost way too much to pour concrete and cannot get to job site with a mixer truck , thanks

Love the perma column idea! Would probably add 500 bucks cost per post

For building green/cheap in climate zone 3 (mixed humid), how would you detail the floor/wall connection using option 4? Wet set brackets would involve thermal bridging so I would prefer to avoid that.

Have you ever heard of using 2 heavy coats of Liquid Rubber foundation sealant on the base of the post, when using the last method #5?

In option 4, instead of the plastic sleeve can i paint on the treated 4x4 with like a tar or something that bonds to it as it cures creating that barrier between soil and wood? I dont know if theres a product out there that is specifically used for this

Galvanized steel post in concrete works well.

In an attempt to cob job/add protection to a wood pole... Wondering if a person could coat a pole in that liquid plastic stuff that you put on concrete backer board before tiling in a shower? Probably not adhere?

With the post protection options, do you still pour concrete around the post like in option 3?

I got talked into doing the pole barn building method once on a 30 x 40 shop. Never again. I dont see the benefit unless it's just an open 3 sided shed or something. It turned into a hassle. You still need to purchase about the same number of 2 x 6 studs and lumber, but now you have wood posts in the ground. My upcoming build and all future builds will be a slab and walls built like a house. Easier to frame up and insulate, everything fits and costs about the same.

What are your thoughts about using cedar rather that pressure treated posts?

I plan to use 8-10" log posts and haven't found a sleeve protector, so would a spray/brush-on rubber or roof tar work?

What is the typical depth and width of the concrete in option 1? If the answer is location specific I am in lower Michigan.

What about using treated poles 25 ft. tall with a 6" top. How would you install round treated poles? As opposed to square treated structural lumber.

Found this very informative. Do you have any videos that outline which post option is best depending on soil type?

Would love to see a pier foundation. Galvanized posts last forever and very little to do to get started. Just jack hammer them in and done.

I am building a post frame using wet set brackets, but have noticed a problem with this method. Water will pool atop the concrete right at the joint between the concrete and the bracket if there is no flashing to shed the water over the top of the concrete. I have yet to see anyone on KZfaq address this. The 1/4" steel brackets will rust away faster than a pole would rot. I'll be making flashing for mine, and will show it on my channel.

What about dry set brackets on a concrete slab? That eliminates post to ground contact.

What do you backfill the post protector option with?

I have a lot of billboard vinyl material. Could I not use stainless staples and wrap the pole with this material?

I think this is cool if the prices where with them would help a lot 100 bracket the way to go but not cheap.

perma-columns ALL THE WAY! keeps the wood completely out of the dirt. easy to set, very easy to replace the post if it gets damaged. the posts DONT have to be treated ( cheaper ) AND the way the columns are built by using 3 boards nailed and glued together are way stronger than 1 single post. its a no-brainer if you want the building to LAST! we put up a 40x80 barn and LOVE them!

Is there any long term information on post life with the post protector sleeves? I'm building a post frame house soon and trying to decide exactly which way to go. I want it to last well over 100 years

do You have any vídeo talking about metal posts ????

ever used a closed cell foam around the post as a protectant?

Is the last option just backfilled with dirt? How many 60 lbs bags of concrete you think? Two? At the bottom

I'll take perma column all day long.

Just wondering when pouring your slab can you also build a 2-3 foot cement wall around the perimeter of the pole barn. So instead of setting you walls on the slab it would be set on top of the small wall?

👍

What would be the best solution for a 20x20x12 pole barn in Florida to deal with wind sheer force where we have to have a wind rating of 170MPH?

to add on to a house a extra room should i go with the first one to make sure it wont move ?

I'm building a small lumber storage building with cantilevered roof & 1 row of poles I have 5) 12' 6x6 white cedar posts I'm thinking about wrapping the bottoms with "Grace" / ice & water type roofing membrane, my only fear is will this method seal the posts too well and cause dry rot or a similar type problem.

Pretty sure to get a regular fixed fanny may freddy mac loan, you need no wood to ground contact. So we are going with option 1

Can I just use rock at base of pole protector post for drainage?

Can you pour a pier for wet set brackets without a sonotube?

#1 is the best option. No pole contact with soil, should last the longest.

can you show wall construction that will support a second floor

Dang you sure know how to make it complicated! Why not a PT post set in a few inches of rocks at the bottom for drainage, and THEN poured concrete?

What is the life expectancy of each of the 5?

Between the five, which one is sturdiest against earthquakes versus flood

Can anyone give me a good idea on how to go about my pole barn project. I am turning it into a fully finished garage. It's 24 by 24. I'm pouring a floor in it. The problem is the structure is solid but has been in the ground for 20 or 30 years. I don't want to do nothing to protect my investment in fully finishing it and I know I need to do something with the post now to ensure a long life of the post which will still hold the structure. Any ideas?

make sure your posts are minimum treated with CCA copper chromium arsenate, you want CCA 60

I dont see how option 3 is bad, if the post will shrink or expand then won't they all do that??

I do #1.

so on post 2 and 4 what do you fill the hole in with??? very good video also

Is it possible to replace poles that have been compromised by weather?

What's the cost difference between the first, and the second, post option? What about expected lifespan?

If using #1, what should be the min diameter of the hole?

I would think "racking" would be a significant issue with Methods 1 and 2. Use lots of Cross-Bracing!!

I used option 2. I think it will last a good while.

Are those 5 methods also in order by the cost of installation?

My wife and I are planning to start building a post frame house in the next couple of months. We are going to be in North/Central Idaho. Cost is of course going to be a huge factor, that is why we plan to build the structure ourselves. Does your company's range extend to Idaho? We already have come up with our desired dimensions and a basic floor plan. How would I go about seeking a materials estimate?

8inX8in post covered in tar. Covered in any type of plastic sheeting. Shrink wrap.

I know cost is a factor, but why not use steel beams for support beams? Coat the underground surface of the beams with roofing tar, or plastic coating and encase the coated inground surface of the support beams in concrete - and call it a day? Your thoughts anyone?

What about Green Post? I don't see these listed here.

For the last 4 examples, what fill do you use to cover the holes?

What is the life expectancy of the posts

#1 and #2 provide no moment connection - these shouldn't be used (pinned conditions). Simpson has a moment base that would work though.

I am a few weeks away from building a pole barn house/garage. What do you think about using a gravel base, Post Protectors, and than filled around with concrete? Better uplift resistance than just Post Protectors.