Did you just flex that your daughter rode in the Pope mobile with Bergoglio?? Ok I’m officially over you! And it’s taken a loooooooong time, I finally get it! I mean you are just the absolutely most thirstiest catholic on social media to have ever existed. Yukkk.

Disobedience and pride will make one fall. Saints have showed humility when communicating with those higher ranked, even when the saints were correct.

In what world do you think a prelate can declare the Chair of Peter empty, refuse to defend himself, double down, shout it from the rooftops, and NOT get excommunicated STAT? This is exactly what he wanted and you’re blaming the pope?

​@@MG-bv8fihow about Pope Francis showing a wee bit of humility!?

@@jothompson1903 Pope Francis might know more about things in context and spiritually. I stick by the Pope 💯, we don’t know what’s happening behind closed doors, nor do I want to pretend to be.

Excellent point!!

@@ttran1075 She wasn't a schismatic.

​@@Saiyan585 Why was St. Joan of Arc excommunicated and executed??? by the Pope of her time.

So was St. Mary Mackillop.

@@Saiyan585 Nor is Viganò.

Amen. And reference to Bishop Sheen is excellent, thank you.

excatly

"The Gates of Hell shall not prevail against the Church". Yeahhh. Thank You Jesus. You are the Holy & Only Son of God... "Who Will never leave us nor forsake us". ❤Amen to Truth!

The first visionary about The Laity was St. Francis de Sales

Interesting.

I wanted to say the same. Pope Francis encouraged all the faithful to get jabbed in spite of the fact that it is the fruit of a bad tree. When I refused, all people could say was that the Pope said it was ok.

@@hikeypoo the pope is a marxist / communist.. it can not be trusted. He will go straight to Hell

fulfiled before our eyes... and the rest of Her Prophecy (fire from the sky) will blot them all out from the earth: He who has ears let him hear

The Catholic Church has already been infiltrated a long while ago

The cup is flowing over.

@@vincentlattuca3763 Amen to that

Akita is a powerful repudiation of Vigano and the work he's doing to splinter and destroy the church. The gates of hell won't prevail.

Are you a Lutheran???? You are sounding like one.

Idolatry.

Remember that Evil has intermittent success Let's remember that these victories are transient and short-lived.

@@m.hartyfool “whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven.” He is excommunicated. It is Bound on Earth and in Heaven.

@@Bobby-xr4bo Protestants and sedevacantists have a different interpretation of that verse.

@@zacharyahearn4069 they are all Protestants. They just don’t realise it

The power of the Divine Mercy chaplet, entrusted to Saint Maria Faustina by Jesus for these turbulent times, is something I wholeheartedly believe in and draw strength from. Its profound and undeniable power gives me hope and comfort in the midst of chaos as always tried and true.

Jesus has nothing to do about catholic. Catholic was never mention in the bibke The romans did use the catholichism in their crusade..

Despair that many don’t even have access to adoration

Agree!!

Good on you - great 2 hours of heaven on earth ! Bless you - and all your family(s) ireland 🇮🇪

We call that "turning a blind eye" to the sickness that you support financially.

@@revelation1215Pray the Divine Mercy chaplet

Why can't you pray for deceased non catholics, i do it all the time. We have no clue if they were graced by God's grace interiorly before death. What non catholics are you referring too?

Er, sorry. As the Pope he has the power both de jure and de facto😊

@@THEJET52 I stand by Pope Francis

He’s a wealthy man. However his website is Exsurge Domine for those who want to contribute.

Martin Luther 3.0.

​@@zacharyahearn4069Francis yes!

@@zacharyahearn4069 I don't know what you mean by that???

@@judys5638 he/she has no clue what he/she is talking about

@@judys5638Archbishop Vigano was never a Cardinal btw. Read Martin Luther’s response to his excommunication and attitude toward excommunication and compare it to Vigano’s response.

That's the same line verbatim I believe God communicated to my heart. I'll go with that if I see it repeated by the minority! I never trust majority rule.

Actuall you dont have a pope at all . The last valid one was pope Benedict xvi. Bergolio is a wolf in sheeps clothing. Avoid anything to do with him.

Guess what?? both your president and this fake pope have been SELECTED.

@@jmlark18 I stand corrected. You are right.

ME TOO, HELP US MOTHER, I humbly ask😢

That blasphemous statue of the Virgin Mary and the fact that the diocesan bishop was not excommunicated on the spot proves that the smoke of Satan is indeed ruling the church. Disgusting! Pope Leo XIII or even Pius XII would have defrocked the bishop who allowed this disgusting statue mocking the Blessed Virgin on the spot! Of course Vigano defends tradition.

You'd better believe it.

exactly; and since the Church can not teach error, the antichurch is now well visible in the ape of the Church: He who has ears, let him hear

That's all soooo sad & demonic. Hear this devil... God WINS the battle. He's the Boss. Let's all pray for Pope & all Cardinals, Arch Bishops, Bishops & unfaithful clerics to repent & convert to God's Truth that's ALWAYS "HOLY" 24/7

Given that Vigano has now been declared to be a schismatic, Francine "Todos, Todos, Todos," from Bergoglians now applies to him as well, His views are now welcome at the Synod, Canon 844 (§§2, 3 and 4 of this canon and in can. 861 §2) now applies to him concerning those who wish to receive the sacraments from him, and he may now even be closer to the Church per Francine standards after this!

Yep, Satan inverts all truth.

The retired apostolic nuncio doesn't believe that it is valid in the first place, so my guess is that he is at peace with what Pope Francis has tried to do.

Isn't it good to be excommunicated by an anti-pope?

nothing unjust here. He asked for it.

I agree with many of Vigano’s criticisms. But it is not his jurisdiction to declare the Chair of Peter vacant.

@@user-mx8li8gr5t It is unjust since Jorge is not a pope. Hell the man is not even Catholic

Vigano is just as Catholic as you.

@@zacharyahearn4069. “…and they shall know us by our love.” John 13:35

@@Mutasis_Mutandis TM and Vigano are really hateful.

Come home to the Catholic Church. I’m a former baptist too

The 'psy-op' is in its infancy, Vigano knows this and spoke against it, Bergolgio praised and promoted it. It's multi-faceted.. please don't assume it was just some 'virus'. Everyday from then was an exercise in social-engineering via media, rainbows and sordid agendas.. it certainly didn't end in 2023.

Touché! Right on!

Makes no sense

@@mikie123 yes it does makes sense. Basically, obeying error is disobedience - in the case of Francis (Bergoglio,) disobedience to the True Magisterium of the Church (beginning with contradicting and undoing his predecessors)

Just like fr John corapi for speaking th truth,,,,

Vigano repeatedly publicly rejected the position of the Pope, also rejected the Second Vatican Council, called by the Vatican to explain, but was defiant and did not want to come for clarification...

Maybe you should pray for the wayward Pope.

Terrible and hypocritical. Not fair

Pope is not a pope anymore. We have proof from the "right hand" (literally): 👌😇 On December 17, on Pope Francis' birthday, lightning struck the statue of St. Peter on the facade of the Sanctuary of Our Lady of the Rosary of St. Nicholas in Buenos Aires, Argentina. As a result of the lightning strike, the halo of the saint and his right hand fell off along with the key he was wearing, which symbolizes papal authority. People! Do we see where, when and what and how it happened??? 😂 Lightning struck also the dome of St. Peter's Basilica on the same night when Pope Benedict XVI announced his intention to resign from office. Coincidence? 😜 Do we need more proof? 😂 ❤❤❤

I'm from Poland I love Catholic Church. The last seal was broken. Church is only there, were good priests still are. This pope is not the Pope. What is the probability that the thunderbolts stroke those places at those times they did??? I'm a Christian, I believe. ♥️ Also Bishop Mar Mari Emanuel is a saint in my eyes 👌🙏😇🫶

Me too 🙏🏼

Then consider yourself excommunicated from the body of Christ. Just like Martin Luther.

me too.

@@Saiyan585 not really, because francis can excomunicate no one, but himself do to heresy...

Hebrew 13:17

AMEN

I am sure Vigano isn't the only person in history unjustly excommunicated.

Arian

St Joan of Arc as well!

No he wasn’t.

I feel the same way. But our prayers are for God to decide what to do. So our prayers might even impact how we feel 🙏

I feel the same. I pray in Mass for the Pope (because of the inherent prayers for him) and that's it. God knows our heart.

@@debramanuel6087thanks for putting it that way, cuz I’m struggling

I have no reservation about praying for a child of God especially one who may be in danger.

Indeed, his "Hail Lucifer' in Latin for Easter Mass was just too much. The Pope is a Luciferian and if you don't believe it, visit his special Hall where the viper stares at you.

It's dead wrong! Inside out upside down!

Trump hired all deepstate for his admin. He will do it again. Trump is being constantly reminded who is in control, and Trump is yet again falling in line, doing everything they want.

In the eyes of the real world Bergolio is an ANTIPOPE. As such he has no authority.

Not my eyes and many others'. The eyes of the world are all too often blind.

He was excommunicated for schism.

No truth, just lies from Vigano. He mishandled Mccarick

@@Nanee907 Don’t be daft. Rejecting the authority of the pope while hiding and not showing up to your summons in Rome is what he’s guilty of. He wasn’t excommunicated because “he’s just too brave and traditional and a truth-teller.” He was excommunicated for schism, which is a literal canonical crime.

Just reflect on what happened to Jesus the truth teller.

Vigano repeatedly publicly rejected the position of the Pope, also rejected the Second Vatican Council, called by the Vatican to explain, but was defiant and did not want to come for clarification...

Here are church teachings from popes and relevant statements from Saints as to why a heretic cannot be the pope. The idolator, Francis, is certainly not a pope. St Robert Bellermine: "...for men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple, and condemn him as a heretic." St. Alphonsus Ligouri, Doctor of the Church: "If ever a pope, as a private person, should fall into heresy, he would at once fall from the Pontificate." St. Francis De Sales, Doctor of the Church: "Now when he [the Pope] is explicitly a heretic, he falls ipso facto from his dignity and out of the Church…" St Antoninus: "In the case in which the pope would become a heretic, he would find himself, by that fact alone and without any other sentence, separated from the Church." Pope Leo XIII, Satish Cognitum: "If anyone holds to a single one of these [heresies] he is not a Catholic" … "No one, therefore, unless in communion with Peter can share in his authority, since it is absurd to imagine that he who is outside can command in the Church." Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporus Christi "Actually, only those are to be included as members of the Church who have received the laver of regeneration and profess the true faith." Galatians 1:8-9 "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema.” Please visit vaticancatholic dot com for true, uncompromised Catholicism.

You left our Pope Paul IV Cum Ex Apostolatus Officio Apostolic Constitution - 15 February 1559

You left our Pope Paul IV Cum Ex Apostolatus Officio Apostolic Constitution - 15 February 1559

@@chrisoleary9876 If someone’s not doing their job they should get sacked including the people who talk behind his back like you

Well GOD rules..noy pope francis

Biden has an excuse. He’s suffering from dementia. PF is another matter. He knows exactly what he’s doing.

At least you acknowledge he is Pope.

They even have the same initials: JB. Still more importantly, both think one can create completely new reality only if you wish to make it so. Both put unity ahead of truth.

Oh, I wish that was true because Joe Biden has some excuse l, Joe is slowly but surely becoming senile. We cannot assume the same thing about Pope Francis...

Satan's pope...

Didn’t Taylor mention that Vigano has been convicted of stealing $ from his siblings (in Italy & Switzerland), and he covered up for McKerrick’s CSA. How did we not know Vigano was a millionaire? Guess poverty doesn’t appeal to Satan’s infiltrators.

What is that which you support him with?

If you support Vigano, then you agree that you were never validly confirmed, and the Eucharist you receive isn't the Eucharist because all of the priests and bishops post Vatican II weren't legitimately ordained.

@@Saiyan585 no, cause he is the false pope, a heretic. Arch bishop Sheen warned us. I pray for Ab Viganò as he is a TRUTHFUL CATHOLIC

@@brillanteslaw2921prayers and money if need be. I lift him up and stand with him , Jesus and all Traditional Catholics. Christ is KING❤❤❤❤❤❤

Quite the contrary. I think it's deadly serious. From what I know of the situation (not being an insider), I think this was a fair decision.

But there is no valid pope since Benedict xvi died. Bergolio is a tru antipope with zero authority.

@@kdmdloI DEFINITELY DO NOT as this pope is a false heretical person whose anti-Christ words and actions has excommunicated himself. He was probably the same in Argentina. I pray GOD’S TRUTH EXPOSES HIM. His words certainly did from the beginning, a San Gallen Maffia pupet…😈

We must always remember in our heart that Jesus said the gates of hell will not prevail against her. And I'm sure our Lady does love LGetc as they are children of God, she prays for them and in no way approves of their choices.

Amen ❤️‍🔥 🙏 ❤️‍🔥

Didn’t Taylor mention that Vigano has been convicted of stealing $ from his siblings (in Italy & Switzerland), and he covered up for McKerrick’s CSA. How did we not know Vigano was a millionaire? Guess poverty doesn’t appeal to Satan’s infiltrators.

If you do then you will no longer be CATHOLIC.... you are promoting HERESY and are a path towards excommunication as well.... submit to the CHURCH AND THE AUTHORITY of the Pope and pray for Vigano to return for his salvation.

GREAT IDEA. Evil always leaves a trail.

​@@sheila7809something like that should come up.

I did that when he became pope and I didn't like what I found.. Francis does not surprise me. He is a traitor.

Yes. A you tuber claims he trafficked babies from a hospital there!!!

Why, you doubt his guilt? Read his heresy.

That is a really stupid reading of Vatican II. That is even dumber than how Protestants read the Bible.

The spirit of schism is evil.

That has been going on for years already.

Like in the political sphere in the US. Let's go Brandon 🤠

Bergoglians like a tw0-ti3red Vatican system, like the Jimmy's, don't want hereticschismatic 🇩🇪bishops to be excommunicated, etc, etc.

Man’s imperfection, not Jesus truth.

We need to pray and love more.

​@gerardmoloney433 who is the head of your church on earth?

​@@shredder9536we are sheep without shephard. No head😢

My heart is heavy, but Jesus Sacred Heart was pierced with a lance, condemned to die as a criminal by Church authorities who accused Him of blasphemy and false teaching. The Archbishop is in good company.

Pope Francis should step down. catholic church need new pope.nothing like st pope John Paul and pope Benedict .

Thank you from french praying Louisiana

🌹AVE MARIA🌹

That is sad. So the Pope is steering Africans toward what, I wonder.....

These trads are obsessed with Pope Francis and believe every lie said about him. Give me a break. They should be helping convert Protestants to the True Faith that only exists in the Catholic Church! I stand with the Vicar of Christ! Long Live Christ the KIng! Down with Schismatics!

No, Viganó made himself into a schismatic.

​@@ChachiTelevision1979Vigano will be reinstated by a real pope even if Bergoglio excommuncated him

@@ChrisBum-zr8tn Whatever is decided is perfectly fine. If he isn’t, then I’ll side with the Church’s position. If he is, then I’ll side with the Church’s position. But, for the record, it’s Pope Francis to you, dork. He’s the vicar of Christ. If you have decided he’s not because you just don’t feel like it, tough. Either follow Christ through his Church or follow Martin Luther. It’s up to you.

@@ChachiTelevision1979 Actually, Vigano does not reject the Petrine Authority; therefore, your accusation is unfounded - much like Rome's - which, coming from the hierarchy, is such evil it cries out to Heaven for vengeance

@@josebastardes Firstly, these aren’t my accusations. I have no accusations. I’m standing by the decision made by the papal leadership. Secondly, he did state very clearly that he doesn’t recognize Francis as pope. His words were “whose authority I do not recognize, nor that of its prefect, nor that of the person who appointed him.” Lastly, he refused to show up to his summons in Rome. I haze zero accusations, these are simply the facts.

Oh yes! There is no problem in the church now, we are in heaven 😢

Get the hierarchy to DO that! They are the reason for this mess since Paul it has been modernism and Freemasons in control😢💦😭

When I read your comment, it gave me chills. Your words are beautiful!!🙏🙏

Jesus Encounter Ministries KZfaq channel*

He isn’t a whistleblower he is a schismatic pedo lover.

Naming him a whistleblower is not enough; his actions are a display of unparalleled courage and integrity. We must honor him with a more esteemed title befitting of his sacrifice.✝

@@AblaSavva What you are doing is not love.

Didn’t Taylor mention that Vigano has been convicted of stealing $ from his siblings (in Italy & Switzerland), and he covered up for McKerrick’s CSA. How did we not know Vigano was a millionaire? Guess poverty doesn’t appeal to Satan’s infiltrators.

@@zacharyahearn4069 what do you mean??

Me too!!

Wut

He was excommunicated.

So you're a schismatic? Come on. Stop buying into this drama.

I think you mean Francis.

I kneel before Christ the Lord.

So you are against the authority of the pope Really You are bewitched by the spirit of luther

@@Pat.hibuleire why would a Pope restrict the use of traditional Latin Mass if he is truly believes in the sanctity of the Holy Mass.

@@chyspinach bro you worship the traditional mass Or you think the holy spirit Led the church astray Latin is not à holy language nor hebrew So you want africans to celebrate in latin too

@@Pat.hibuleire Latin was/is a colloquial language it was used so that any Catholic in any place in the World could attend Mass with their Missal and know what was being said, a universal language. The only thing you would not understand was the sermon. You and everyone that spoke another language were reading the prayers in Latin TOGETHER. I have to say it was a beautiful thing. Of course this was one of the changes at Vatican II. May the Spirit of the Lord Bless and Keep you and your Loved ones⚓️💕

Yes, why would a pope want to so vehemently 'outlaw' it, I mean, couldn't he make it up to the individual.. goes to show it must be of great significance and power against the evil Bergoglio promotes.

You still can be in your heart. I go to N O because the EUCHARIST IS THERE. I do not like this Mass as it was forced on us by a Freemason and the liturgy also. Pope Paul had Fr Gagnon investigate the hierarchy for Freemasons and never acted on that information and neither did those that followed him. I guess that is part of the ape of the church.

Yes. Resist practicing Freemasonry / Kabbalah -- not a path to Heaven, serves Lucifer.

This is your Church, Lord and you declared that the gates of hell will not prevail against it! Your promises are true and amen. Jesus we Trust in You.

this is what Jesus warned us about

The Church is just fine. It is still guided by the Holy Spirit, as always. Francis is simply exercising properly the authority vested in him for the betterment of The Church and, hopefully, for Vigano.

IF YOUR VIEW THE POPE AS HERETIC CONSIDER YOURSELF EXCUMMUNECATED FROM THE CHURCH

Beautifully communicated others need to be awakened

You speak well, but Trump is hoodwinking you, don't be fooled by his pandering to the electorate. He will kiss the Wailing wall and serve Israel and Bergoglio, as they are one evil. Yes 'climate change' is Covid II in essence.. it's a large psy op to enslave us and destroy food supplies among many other insidious sub agendas.. Turn off your mainstream, unless to derive the opposite of what they say to get the truth!! Politics and media are corrupt to the core, we can no longer put our trust in them. Lenin- 'to control the opposition, we must become the opposition', put Trump into that same context.

You appear otbe a natural fellow of good common sense. God bless.

God bless you

Perhaps try to introduce a discussion starting with those whom you feel may be like-minded regarding the issues. Start with very small, gradual introductions, ideas, or questions & see if they are receptive or are willing to talk further. Use gradualism aka Incrementalism in reverse; to reintroduce Sacred Tradition /Heritage. Get people interested & learning in what they may never have been taught. A good starting point, I find, is to bring up why newer churches have different altars, different designs & focal points [re: the location & placement of the Tabernacle]. See what other's come up with & gauge what their level of knowledge is; then you'll have a good idea of where to start the conversation.

it's Latin Mass..not Laton

Amen 🙏💕✝️!

These trads are obsessed with Pope Francis and believe every lie said about him. Give me a break. They should be helping convert Protestants to the True Faith that only exists in the Catholic Church! I stand with the Vicar of Christ! Long Live Christ the KIng! Down with Schismatics!

There is no current valid pope to pray for. The last valid one was Benedict xvi.

@@jmlark18 I am not a sedavacantist. We have had wicked popes before: Pope John XII. Only a future pope and ecumenical council can determine if Bergoglio is valid or invalid, and not the laity. 👍

@@petertherock7340Oh, I can guess by the GRACE of GOD🙏

​@@petertherock7340 That proposition you outlined has no adequate theological or doctrinal foundation. The church is not a blind monolith composed of unthinking dumb members. In addition the clergy have no especially favoured position in the eyes of God. You seem to believe in special category status for ordained clergy. Thats the kernal pf one of the many problems currently confronting Roman catholocism. Finally the evidence supporting a truly defective attempted papal resignation by pope Benedict is extremely strong. Combine that with the formally heretical positions adopted by Bergolio and his supporters and the case is well proven.

You are deceived if you continue to regard Bergolio as any type of valid pope. Combine pope Benedicts extremely doubtful resignation with the formal heresies promulgated by Bergolio and the case is incontrovertible that the See of St Peter is now vacant since Benedicts death. All you do by recognising Bergolio is inflict schism pain and suffering on every loyal Roman catholic.

Blessed mother and rosary? and where is Jesus? did you forget who created you and who died for you on the cross? do you know what Bible says about people who put their trust in people instead of God? look for it...

Never be ashamed to say you are catholic! Christ warned us that wolves would come among the shepherds. He warned us of this! Are you surprised that satan is trying to destroy what belongs to Christ? Never be ashamed! Those men are not catholic. Judas was a traitor….should the apostles have said they are ashamed now to defend Christ and Hos teachings? Stay on the right side!

Me too

consider yourself excummunecated from the true church

Vigano automatically excommunicated himself when he committed the sin of schism 12 months ago under Canon Law. The papacy only confirmed it today. It took 12 months to do it.

Excuse me Francis is not God not even close

Jesus Encounter Ministries KZfaq channel*

So true so sad for our Beloved Bride of Christ as we all wait for the Bride groom Jesus come soon❤️‍🔥🙏❤️‍🔥

@@cju5150 So then if it becomes apparent that the gates of hell did prevail against the church, what would you do?

@@FinalLugiaGuardian it’s not the end yet. Why such little faith. To believe and trust in Jesus promise for His and church is the answer.

Indeed it will not prevail against the Church. But the pope is not the church

@@FinalLugiaGuardiango underground and pray

Yea, if Archbishop Vigano is the winner/hero, Who is the loser/villain?

@@riverwildcat1 yes! they said the same thing about Luther.

Vigano repeatedly publicly rejected the position of the Pope, also rejected the Second Vatican Council, called by the Vatican to explain, but was defiant and did not want to come for clarification...

TLM is great.

You won't regret it, you need to go now before its shut down.

Viciousness defines this papacy

These trads are obsessed with Pope Francis and believe every lie said about him. Give me a break. They should be helping convert Protestants to the True Faith that only exists in the Catholic Church! I stand with the Vicar of Christ! Long Live Christ the KIng! Down with Schismatics!

There are no TLM around here and the other church goers view our Little Catholic Church with suspicion. It is a good Congregation and I am a slacker because of disabilities but these People are kind and welcoming and I am proud of all they do, maybe win a few skeptics over in time⚓️💕

Amen! Keep this always in mind during these troubling times. Thank you for reminding us of this!

The only way to Jesus is his Blessed Mother Queen of Heaven and Earth and her holy Rosary ✝️🙏

Protestants believe salvation can happen without the Church. Catholics know otherwise.

Beautiful words we all want it easy, but sorry to burst your bubble. God had to die in the so we have to give our selfs also!😢 The Catholic Church teaches that salvation is achieved through both faith and good works, not just faith alone. This teaching has been part of Divine Revelation since 30 A.D.. The Catechism of the Catholic Church considers faith and good works to be a human response to God's grace.  EWTN Bible Says Faith and Works Needed for Salvation | EWTN  Wikipedia Sola fide - Wikipedia The Joint Declaration never mentions the expression Sola Fide and the Catechism of the Cat... Catholic doctrine defines faith as trusting in God's mercifulness, as shown in Jesus Christ, and confessing God's salvific work through Jesus Christ in the Holy Spirit. Faith also includes other acts, such as turning away from sin, turning toward God, hope in God, and love for God. These acts are not separate from faith, but are part of its inner essence. The Catholic Church also teaches that people are rewarded or punished based on their actions. For example, Jesus said that people need to keep the commandments, sell what they have, and follow him in order to have eternal life. The Council of Trent condemned the idea that people can save themselves or that God helps them do what they could do for themselves. Generative AI is experimental.

And the way to Jesus is through Mary ;)