Dear Father, Help us in this endeavor for your honor,glory and praise. In Jesus Sacrificial Conquering name. Amen

Amen, stay strong in The Lord! Continue to love and teach The Truth.

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it. The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. ================================== "It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view." The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197. =================================== The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected.

Todd warnings are for Israel, specifically Trib Saints, not the church, our verses are for comfort examples 1Thess4:18 and 1Thess5:9.

@@rightlydividingtheword5430 You cannot take 1.Thess 4:18 out of context. The blessed hope (Titus 2:13) is the epiphaneia=advent or return of Christ (Mat 24:29-31), His 2.coming with the erchomai in the clouds for the Rapture, followed by the parousia (Mat 24:39) for judgment with His Saints, both at the same day (Luke 17:29+30). That is what the bible says. Your Rapture before the tribulation, I cannot find in the bible. There is no coming, nor a resurrection for your Rapture in scripture (1.Cor 15:23,52), how can it be our hope? It will be a great disaster, when the AC appears. 1.Thess 5:9 says we are not appointed to orge wrath. I agree, the Rapture is before the wrath comes. We read in Rev 6:17, that His wrath is come (present tense), that means, the Rapture must have taken place already. Rev 6:12-14 tells us that the stars fall from Heaven, that is after the Tribulation (Mat 24:29). His 2.coming is repeated in Rev 11:15-18; 16:15-21 and 19:11-15, all with the orge wrath of God. That may not fit your time frame, but I believe, the bible has the right one. Anyway, the Tribulation has no orge wrath, which is His judgment to eternal damnation (Rev 14:10), whereas thymos anger in the vials (Rev 16:1) are for the sinners in the kingdom of the AC, and not for believers. But they repented not from their evil deeds, therefor came the orge wrath upon them at the last vial, fulfilling God's anger mixed with His wrath (Rev 15:1), the destruction of the wicked (Rev 11:18+16:19). I believe Rev 3:10 is a separation of true believers from the AC, when God preserves the church of Philadelphia the last 3 1/2 years (Rev 12:6), but the Rapture is after the Tribulation as Jesus said, it includes ALL NT Saints, also the 2 witnesses, 144000, and the Saints out of the Tribulation (Rev 7:9+14).

@@benny-yj7pq Benny I see your mistake, first, the return of Christ to the Earth is not Rapture and is not found in Matthew 24: 29-31 this is speaking to Israel about Him coming as King for Isael, to set up the Kingdom on the Earth for 1,000 years the Millennial reign on the Earth. Rapture passages about the Blessed Hope for the Church going to the Fathers house in Heaven (john14: 1-3), different events at different times for a different group of people.

@@benny-yj7pq Also you say" I agree, the Rapture is before the wrath comes. " Well search the scriptures and see the Wrath of God is for 7 years on Israel and the unbelieving Earth dwellers not the Church we are Raptured before this time (7yrs Tribulation) not because we are good, but because we have the Holy Spirit OIL IN OUR VESSEL Body. SAVED BORN AGAIN. Matthew 25: 3-4.

@@benny-yj7pq Matthew24:39 is speaking to ISRAEL specifically Tribulation saints, elect. They will be separated from unbelieving ISRAEL, Read on in Matthew 25:37-41 at the end of the Tribulation and His return for them (Rev 19:7, Hosea 6:1-3).

I cant find anywhere in scripture where Jesus spoke to anyone while he was alive about the rapture. The first time the Rapture is spoken of is when Paul discloses it. It was a hidden mystery by biblical deffinition of what a mystery is never before disclosed since the beginning of time. It was a mystery Given 1st to Paul. Check it out for yourself. Nothing in scripture gives the exact time of the rapture so you are not going to hell either way you look at the rapture. However I believe that Scripture is more consistent with a pre-trib rapture and Matt 24 is not a rapture chapter. Matt. 24 Mt Olivet disc. did not happen after Paul was given the disclosure of Rapture therefor The Rapture was not the topic of Matt. . Scripture proves scripture and time history verifies scripture. No scriptural proof that Jesus had a face to face with anyone about the Rapture of the Church.

@@artcarlson3581 Bro, the rapture is the gathering of the elect from the four winds, one end of the earth the other. It's the same event as the 2nd coming gathering.

@@Mike65809 The ELECT here are no the Church. You must use context here because in some places in scripture elect is church but it is a very good direct application here to The remnant Jews . The remnant was promised to survive so that there are people alive in human form to go into the milineum to repopulate. There could be others who servived as well.

@@artcarlson3581 Why do you conclude here the elect are only Jews? And why do you conclude that when Paul spoke of the Lord's coming, you conclude that it's a different coming than the one our Lord spoke about? And when Paul speaks of gathering us together unto Him it's a different gathering together of his elect?

@@Mike65809 Mike the context of Elect is the Remnant Jews that God promised to bring into the milineum. The Jews will not be the only survivors . The Church is not the topic here in the. Mount of Olives discourse. The rapture of the Church can't be discussed here because the rapture of the church was a mystery that was given to Paul by God at a later time. Rapture idea did not yet exist . You should be able to see the what this would mean. " Rapture can't be the topic if the idea of the rapture has not yet existed." Do you see what that would mean? If you don't understand the Significance of that, I really can't help you to understand the Pre tribulation position. Keep reading with an open mind. I understand post trib idea and that's why I clearly choose Pre trib because it has the least stumbling blocks when using scripture to prove scripture. Thanks

That's a door closer ..!!!!

Da Truth Records, in John 14:1-3, Jesus promised to go prepare a place for his disciples in his Father's house then come receive them to himself so they can be together where he is. So, he implied that he would leave them behind at his Ascension, but he would later come take them to heaven at the Rapture. In John 17:15, Jesus explicitly prayed that the Father not take them with him, referring to his Ascension to heaven. Then he switched to praying for everyone else who would believe because of their ministries, which shows why he left them behind until the rapture.

​@@ingognito369Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, COME UP HITHER.......

Well said babylonbeware....the pretrib doctrine plays out very well in the American church.

Have you ever Studied the Greek Word "ORGE" Patty? If you had you would know that Paul said "We are NOT appointed to "ORGE"! Paul never ever said "We are NOT appointed to Thumos! There is a Huge Difference between ORGE and THUMOS! The Bowls of Thumos are not the ORGE! It is True that we are NOT appointed to ORGE as we will partake in the First Resurrection on that Day when Jesus will Trample the Wine Press of His ORGE!

April Holton, in 1861, Robert Norton invented a conspiracy theory that John Darby got his pre-trib rapture doctrine from a spiritist named Margaret MacDonald in the early 1800s, but Darby started forming his doctrine several years before hers, and he later investigated and condemned her ministry, and she actually taught that the church goes thru the Great Tribulation to be tested by the Antichrist, which is post-trib. Then starting in the 1970s, Dave MacPherson started marketing Norton's false conspiracy theory, and he's the reason why many people today believe the rapture doctrine came from demons in the 1800s. Also, a little church history shows that post-trib doctrine has its roots in Augustine's Amillennialism, which he invented around 400 AD, and which the Roman Catholic church enforced until the Protestant Reformation when people bravely translated God's word into English, spread Bibles around, and rediscovered the rapture among other hidden truths. Darby was born several centuries later, so he was actually a latecomer to the rapture not the originator.

Bill, I believed it for 46 years. It's what my pastor believed and taught. Who was I to question his theology. I just never thought much about it until about two years ago and that's when I started listening to teachings like this one that are all over the internet. It doesn't take long for the truth to pop off the pages if one can lay aside the preconceived bias. My favorite proof text....2Ths1:7. It blows their minds that Paul says "rest with us you who are troubled when the Lord is revealed from Heaven with his mighty angels". They cannot fathom that Paul is speaking about 1Ths4:13-17 in the same context. They have no problem with Paul going in the rapture of 1Ths4 but cannot understand he is going also in the rapture of 2Ths1:7. They look like a calf staring at a new gate.

If your life as a christian was EASY up to this point then I understan why you sustain such doctrine.Mine was a “tribulation” nearly every day...so ...I AM LOOKING FOR THAT BLESSED HOPE ..not for the Anticrist! Brace yourself!!!!

@@lavinia6480 oh, how I know the trials and tribulations. That is how God deals and works in our lives.

you say..."WORKING OUT SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING". you misunderstand this passage and take it out of Context it is not talking about doing work to keep your Salvation, that would contradict Ephesians2:8-9 learning to walk in the fear of the Lord, so you don't fall, falling does not put you of the Kingdom read1Cor5:1-5.

@@rightlydividingtheword5430 my dear brother. I know it is not through works that we are saved. It is The Grace of God. We have to draw near to God. Seek first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness. It is spending the time oth Him.

@@ernievan7745 Yes, you are right, but even if we don't walk right, we still belong to the Lord, good or Bad works won't change that, see1Cor5:1-5...

Your story has nothing to do with what the Bible says. Of course there are false prophets but that doesn't make the Bible wrong.

Shira Shira, post-triber have also set false dates. The Great Disappointment of 1844, for example, and the Jehovah’s Witnesses cult set many false dates from the late 1800s thru the late 1900s. Also, just because some crazy guy happened to believe in the pre-trib, that doesn’t connect his crimes to other people who also believe in the pre-trib, any more than his belief in the Bible connects him to you because you also believe in the Bible.

@@biblehistoryscience3530 what I know God's word is pure, if Jesus said that no one knows that day or time and let no one deceive us, so I think let's follow His words and just keep on praying watching and wait for Him to take us, and I would like to meet you all in eternal life and glory

@@shirashira7470, well said, and that’s basically what Jesus said in Luke 21:34-36, warning everyone to repent from sin, to watch and pray always to be accounted worthy to escape all the things that are coming to pass and stand before him. I hope _the blessed hope_ to escape all the things that are coming to pass in the great tribulation.

@@biblehistoryscience3530 What a coward you are....there is no evidence for a pre or mid tribulation "rapture" .....its utterly unBiblical garbage.

Psalm 91 promises protection from plagues. That will be our hope but we have to dwell with God and not be part of "those who dwell on the earth..."

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it. The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. "It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view." The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197. The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected.

@@SpotterVideo Yes they are connected, the chapter divisions being added many years later. There is no reason to think Paul was speaking of a different "coming" than the one our Lord spoke of in Mark 13. Pure assumptions but with far reaching consequences since much of the church will not be ready to suffer through the times ahead. Many will fall away. God bless.

God's wrath is the entire 7 yrs. on Israel and the unbelieving Earth dwellers read Isaiah 10:3-21 that concludes on the day of the Lord 2nd coming to Earth for ISRAEL not the Coming in the air for the Church (John14:1-3).

All in all,we are still learning from the scripture. We are the disciples of our Lord Jesus Christ. Me I want to challenge those who doesn't believe in pre- tribulation, instead of, they believe in mid-tribulation and post-tribulation. What they say when Jesus compering the those days like it was the days of Noah and Lot. People were buying and selling,eating and drinking also Marrying each other. Do you think during tribulation people will be free to do those activities and they will enjoying as how it was the days of Noah and Lot?You really know exactly how aunt Aunt-christ will be persecuter and crue!! Bible is very clear about the pre-tribulation. In Revelation 3:10 ,it says that, '' Because you has kept the word of my patience,I also will keep you "FROM" the hour of temptation,which shall come upon all the world,to try them that dwell upon the earth. It doesn't say he will keep us "WITH" the hour of temptation!! God will never allow the Church go through the tribulation! Remember from the beginning. Before the flooding, Enoch was take,Noah also was saved in the ark. Even during the days of Lot,the same twice. The Angels came to save him, after that,Sodom and Gomorrah burned.

@@angelioforosaletheia8855 rapture happens after the tribulation sorry , if it happens in our lifetime, we will most likely be beheaded, I don't care I'm ready to die , I hate this world

@@angelioforosaletheia8855 the abomination starts great tribulation Matthew 24: 15, 21 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. from the abomination till the end be 1290 days and 1335 for the blessed Daniel 12: 11-13 11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. 13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days. from the abomination GOD's people are strong and do exploits Daniel 11: 31-32 31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. 32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits. this is the same as the two witness ministry for 1260 days Revelation 11: 5-6 And if any man will hurt them, (((fire))) proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. witnesses are GOD's people Revelation 11: 3-4 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. witness = candlestick Revelation 1: 20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. candlestick = church witness = candlestick = church And if any man will hurt them, (((fire))) proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: Luke 3: 16 16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with (((fire))): Be baptized with the HOLY SPIRIT and with (((fire))) and be a candlestick. Endure to the end. The same shall be saved.

And the revealing of the man of sin! Matt 24. 🙏

Wrong.

Last days church gets the benefits of modern day technology without having to suffer persecution like the church before them. This is what pre trib believers that are in my Bible study group believe. It does not register as true with me. I can't say for certain, 100% certainty that post trib is correct but as each day goes on it appears to me that we will be here for the tribulation. When do you think the tribulation will start?

I'm late to the party (Your 10 month old post), but what do you say is "SETTLED" by way of *Rev 12:1-6?* Further in your post you seem to indicate that the *PRE-tribulation* position is not correct, so that's why I ask. As far as the woman goes in *Rev 12,* the woman (Israel) gives birth to the child; *Rev 12:7* says, "SHE brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations..." The entire chapter is all about the Jews, & didn't know if you were trying to inject the church into the chapter? To your point about the pre-tribulation position not being "introduced" till the 19th century I would say... I don't know where you could have come up with that, other than having had it repeated over and over again by those who oppose the pre-tribulation position, because even a cursory search with a little due diligence puts that to rest in short order. At the very best, it's an argument from silence...the absence of a record never proving the absence of a belief. It's fallacious...it's chronological snobbery. Are we also to believe that justification by faith & other *MAJOR* doctrines were only conjured up by Luther? It's no different than James Marshall "discovering" gold in California in 1848, when it had been there all along. We don't MANUFACTURE or INVENT truth...we *DISCOVER* truth. All the best to you in your search for truth, *MARANATHA!*

@@Kman. Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. II Thessalonians 2:1‭-‬4 NKJV Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering to Him won't come unless the falling away happens first and the man of sin is revealed. That's what the scripture above tells us.

@@jayrodriguez84 What's the larger point? I see the scriptures...what are you suggesting it's saying? All you said after just quoting the verses is, "THAT'S WHAT THE SCRIPTURE ABOVE TELLS US". So? Take the passage...break it down...provide some background, or share just what you think it means, because your reply is void of a/thing other than copy/pasting/quoting the verses.

@@Kman. I told you what it means. It means the church will be here during the tribulation. Take the time to slowly read instead of reading and looking to formulate an opinion that is false.

He came to earth to meet Saul/Paul before the great tribulation. Did He tell of that?

If He did then show where Christ said He comes before the tribulation.. Christ also said the false Christ comes first.."If they say here is Christ or there is Christ believe it not"..So any Christ that comes before the tribulation is the false Christ..And we know there will be one in 2nd Thess. 2 which will be Satan playing God/Christ

@@seventhousand My point is He didn't tell you that He was coming again to meet Paul/Saul on the road.

@@mailjamesthomas Mark 3:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.(Christ foretold us all things He said nothing about coming before the tribulation...Christ did foretell his disciples and us He comes after as written proof, Christ also said the false Christ comes first,.."If they say here is Christ or there is Christ believe it not..So if you are teaching a Christ is coming before the tribulation believe it not..many are teaching against what Christ taught..their a type of antichrist.... Christ also said, 'Behold I have fore told you all things"...He said nothing about coming before the tribulation unless you want to add to His words...

@@seventhousand He comes in the clouds (1Thes4:17) before the false Christ. Maybe you are a Matthew 7:21-23 "christian" and nothing I say to you will be understood.

Hi M.E. Do you think the church which is the bride of Christ will have to endure his wrath in Revelation 6:12-17. Just asking . You decide. Please view :Scriptural Evidence For A Pre- Tribulation. Rapture ; and Jewish Marriage Customs Analogous To Jesus And The Church, both authored by me. Enoch was caught up before the flood in Noah's time Genesis 5:24; and Noah and his family were saved in the flood. Genesis Ch's. 6-8. Enoch represents the church being raptured before the tribulation and Noah represents israel and all who will be saved in the tribulation. Romans 11: 25-32. The tribulation is the time of Jacob's (israel's ) trouble. Jeremiah 30:7.The church age ends at Revelation Ch.3 and will be caught up in Revelation Ch.4. Ezelial 46:1.Hope this will help as they are all scriptural and not hollywood doctrine..In Jewish wedding traditions, the bride has to fulfil her week in the bridal chamber and represents the bride of Christ in heaven during the 7 yr.trib. Genesis 29:27. The church couldn't go at the end of the trib. and come back at the same time to rule with Christ for one thousand years in the purified earth cleansed from sin in the tribulation. God bless.

@@LastDaySaintJames The tribulation is a time of Jacob's ( Israel's ) trouble , not the church. Jeremiah 30:7. The Church wasn't even born yet. The Church came into being on the Day of Pentecost. Acts Ch. 2. Shalom .

@@LastDaySaintJames OK James. According to your faith be it unto you. God bless.

You hit the nail on the head. If pre-tribulation rapture was true, why would Hollywood show it to us in movie after movie?

@@afzalali9531 Afzal, I don't have time to reply to the above numerous errors and your confusion with Israel and the church. We are not the "Bride,"(Rev.21:2) we are the Body of Christ (The Groom). Enoch died like all men; Heb.11:13. Like Noah, we'll be going through the last half of the great tribulation and like Noah, we'll be protected. Your 'rapture' is the 2nd advent. Yes, we'll be with Christ on planet earth and He tells you that; "and thus we shall always be with the Lord." 1 Thess.4:17. And where is our Lord Christ ? He's sitting on a throne in Jerusalem with us. I departed from Margaret Macdonald's doctrine 25 years ago and never looked back. God Bless.

Paul Prophesied that Jesus is NOT COMING to GATHER the Church to Himself UNTIL the Apostasy and the Revealing of the man of sin whom Jesus destroys when the Church is Gathered to Meet Jesus! Thats Post Tribulation! Paul never ever ever ever ever said that we Believers will not go through Thlipsis! Jesus DID say that we will go Through Tribulation and that the Great Tribulation MUST end before we are to ever expect Him Coming! No Man of God in Scripture Taught the Filthy Pre Trib LIE!

@@RaptureofSaints it's quite obvious that you either don't know what the Bible says about the end times, or you don't know it. Please note 2 Thess 2: 3 doesn't say a falling away from the faith, DOES IT ? NO. Whereas 1 Tim 4: 1 does say it. Falling away is made up from two Greek words, which means a departing. The pre-tribulation rapture, Then the man of sin can come. Please keep 2 Thess 2: 1--8 in its right context. In relation to the coming great tribulation period, both Jesus and Paul said we won't go through it. Either they are telling lies, or you are letting the devil use you to spread his lies.

@@alanhales239 Wow Alan, it appears that you have absolutely NO Idea what the Greek Word "Apostasia" means and absolutely have NO Idea how the Greek Word "Apostasia" is used in the Greek Language and that you really have NO Idea how that Greek Word "Apostasia" is used in the New Testament NOR in the Septuagint! You have NEVER studied the Greek Word "Apostasia" at all and it shows! It would be wise for you to Close your mouth and instead go and spend Two Weeks LOOKING at every Single Place where "APOSTASIA" is used in the Whole Bible and then you will speak Truth! APOSTASIA always means "A Forsaking of TRUTH", a "Departure from TRUTH" a "Rebellion against TRUTH" a "Disobeying of Gods Instructions"! In every single place where "Apostasia" is used in the Bible it always 100% RELATES to APOSTASY! NEVER is the Greek word "Apostasia: used when anyone is speaking about simply departing from a Room, or a House, or a Town, or a City, or a Location! You will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER find any Greek Speaking person using that Greek Word "Apostasia" whenever they are simply speaking of departing from a Room or a House or a City or a Region! SHOW us ALL a Verse where APOSTASIA is used in Scripture when a person simply departs from a room or a house out a town or a city etc! YOU CANNOT! Go and Learn some TRUTH before you speak!

Wow Alan, you speak of Context! Paul said this: 1/ APOSTASY (Apostasia) 2/ REVEALING of the Man of Sin 3/ The COMING of Jesus 4/ The Church is GATHERED to Meet Jesus (The Rapture) (Harpazo) 5/ Jesus destroys that man of Sin CONTEXT! APOSTASIA is NOT Harpazo! Apostasia is NEVER EVER Used as Harpazo in the Greek Language! Apostasia is NOT Harpazo and Harpazo is NOT Apostasia! The Meanings of the Greek Word APOSTASIA and Harpazo are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT! Apostasia means to Forsake Truth Harpazo means "To be seized and moved from one location to another! God DESTROYED People of Israel for their APOSTASIA! Many of Israel were deceived because of APOSTASIA! The TRUTH is that BEFORE the Rapture will ever ever take place many things must happen! Paul Himself said that the COMING of Jesus and the RESURRECTION must happen before we are all TOGETHER Raptured to Meet Jesus! It would be wise for you to actually go and Study the Greek Word Harpazo and how and where it is used in Scripture because you really have absolutely NO Idea what the word Rapture means and what it is and when it is! Jesus and Paul did NOT SAY that we will not be going through Tribulation!

@@RaptureofSaints it's quite obvious that you either don't know the Bible, or you refuse to believe it. Either way, shame on me. Falling away in 2 Thess 2:3, is made up from two Greek words, which mean, "A departing". Please note, it doesn't say a falling away from the faith, DOES IT ?. No it doesn't, it's false teachers like you who say it does. Whereas it does say falling away from the faith in 1 Tim 4: 1. Please keep 2 Thess 2: 1--8 in it's right context. If you take "Text" out of Context", you are left with "Con". Which is what you are. In relation to the coming great tribulation period, both Jesus and Paul said we won't go through it. You are calling Jesus and Paul liars. You really are very naughty. Nowhere does the Bible say the Church goes through the great tribulation period.

Rev chapters 6-19 is about Jewish Trib Saints on Earth, not the Church Saints seeing that they were Raptured in Rev. chapter 4 and is in Heaven chapters 4,5. Saints referenced in chapters 6-19 are Jewish Elect true Israel Believers in Christ, 5 Foolish Virgins.

Believers can be protected. See Psalm 91. But one thing to consider. Believers have been here for all wars and plagues since the time of our Lord. Some have died and some have suffered much.

@@Mike65809 yes, but the tribulation is even worse than what's ever happened in the world. Mathew 24:21. Also, psalm 91 is talking to those who remain and call out to him during the tribulation and God will save their souls from hell. Matthew 24:24 "IF it were possible, even the elect" meaning its not possible. Because Christians won't be here who believed before the rapture. Those who become saved during the tribulation are the saints and the jews. Matthew 24:30 says that the whole world will mourn when they see Jesus coming... so Christians will be sad about Jesus return during the worst period of human history? Revelation 13:7 is the beast getting power over the jews. Notice it doesn't say the church... ever... during the tribulation. The church appears at the end of the Tribulation as the wife. No longer the bride. Meaning we had the marriage supper of the Lamb. A traditional Jewish wedding was 7 days. The tribulation is 7 years. For 7 years we are having a marriage to the LORD. During the tribulation many will be saved because the prophecies were proven true. So there's another rapture at the end of the Tribulation before God returns to end evil and begin his rule on the earth. Remember. Haters of Jesus will live under the rule of him. Because they eventually wage war against him in Armageddon once Satan is released for a short time. The antichrist is most likely Jewish, Muslim, freemason or catholic. So there will still be religions on the earth when the tribulation is happening. The jews are called God's holy people. Not the ones who accept Jesus as Messiah they're the church. The bride. Believers. Children of God. Etc.

@@melissaiscrazybaby Well, thanks for your reply but it's a bit long and covers a lot. The reason John did not use the word, church, in the middle of Rev. is probably because he did not want to confuse the reader with the 7 churches mentioned at the beginning. They would wonder which one he is talking about. So saints, a word in the NT for Christians, sufficed. Plus, it agrees with Daniel 7. The Jews are not God's holy people until they put their faith in Jesus. Paul says right now they are enemies. Jesus also said if anyone rejects him, they reject the Father who sent him. As for the marriage supper, notice that it occurs after Babylon is destroyed. When is that? At the 7th bowl of wrath. So it is not possible to have a 7 year marriage supper if the bride has not made herself ready. She is finally ready then. As the the Beast, yes he does much in Jerusalem against the Jews, however, he rules over all tribes, nations and peoples. All are forced to worship him. Finally, Jesus said he will raise us up on the Last Day, not 3.5 or 7 years before. Don't be fooled. It's very clear. We must endure until the end. It's just too easy to plaster an idea over the passages to make them say something they are not. God bless.

@@Mike65809 okay I think you're right there actually. So how do you view the 7 churches? I personally believe God declared the end from the beginning. 1 day is as a thousand years. The creation account in Genesis 1 and 2 symbolize the 7000 years of human existence. And with Jesus kingdom is 1000 years. Then we're right there at the edge of 6000 years. And that's to assume we've kept God's calendar correct. Sadly it's hard to know. I view the 7 churches are the church each 1000 years. We (our generation) are the church of Philadelphia. It says "I will keep you from the hour of trial that will come upon the whole earth (Rev 3:10) and the church that's here during the tribulation is church of Laodicea (Rev 3:20-22) is a warning that he's coming back and setting foot on the earth to rein for the 1000 years. The 7th day rest of the Sabbath symbolizes our rest for the 1000 years with Christ. Jesus doesn't actually return to earth for the rapture. We go up and meet him in the sky. Wherever that is. I was 100% post tribulation rapture believer until I've studied prophecy. Revelation 12 was fulfilled September 23, 2017. So that helps give me a time line. I personally think some translations are blatantly wrong but I am open minded to correction. I just have a hard time believing God would put those who already know and love him through the tribulation. "God has not destined us for wrath" (1 Thessalonians 5:9-10) and the tribulation is the wrath of the Lamb.

@@melissaiscrazybaby Well maybe we are near the 7k mark, but the church has not been around since the beginning, but since Jesus and Pentecost. To be honest, I don't believe they represent ages. I could be wrong. I have not figured that one out yet. But anyway, Jesus said he will raise us up on the Last Day, that that's good enough for me. I see no difference really to his coming in Matt. 24 and Paul's words of his "coming" in 1 Thess. Paul also described it as his "coming." I find it hard to believe Paul would be speaking about a different coming than our Lord in Matt. 24. That's too much presumption for me and is not necessary. As for the wrath of God, Paul was describing the wrath the wicked will receive when they are saying, Peace and Safety. That is when he returns and they are destroyed. That is the wrath he is describing in context. As for the bowls of wrath, etc. we may be protected by promises in Psalm 91 or even if the whole church is represented symbolically by the 144K. We are true Israel at this time. Yet God will convert the Jews per Romans 11 in the future.

why would it be america when god made reverence it was babylon

mystery babylon could also be the condition of ones heart. Spiritually speaking.

Pray and ask God for understanding, Matthew Chapter 24, Jesus says after the tribulation the sun will darken and moon will not give her light. Then we will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with power and great glory. At that point, he will send his angels to gather his elect (Us) from the four corners of the earth. How can you misinterpret that?

@@Niecey86 We don't need to misinterpret it . You already did when you put (us ) in the sentence. This is not a salvation issue but we do need to search for truth. Elect in Matt. 24 are Jews since the Church is not mentioned here. Jesus was talking about a gathering of Jews here not Christian Church body of believers. The whole topic of Matt. 23/24/25 are all Jewish in nature. Jesus a Jew speaking to Jews answering Jewish Questions about the people he came to Save JEWS in a Jewish setting. You need to see who the audience is and who it is written to. It is for our information but not written to the Church. THE CHURCH is already raptrured before Jesus comes back to do the gathering that is for told here. Some people confuse Elect here with the Church however it really really begs the question because the context really does not allow the Church to be there. Rapture and 2nd coming are different events separated by being described differently. One has the Church going up to meet the Lord and the Other the Church coming back with the Lord. Clear critical reading will show there is a difference. God Bless

@@artcarlson3581 you need to quit putting words in the scriptures that are not there. Just because you are scared of having to be here for the tribulation doesn’t mean you get to make up fantasies about what the scriptures say. The true word of God doesn’t care about your feelings. It cares about the truth. Hope you figure it out before it’s too late and you aren’t prepared for what is coming. Pre-Trib is false satanic doctrine. God speed.

@@artcarlson3581 So you believe the dead in Christ will be resurrected twice? And the last trumpet isn't the last? Post trib doesn't require all that word salad, Ready? 1 Corinthians 15:52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. And when are the first six trumpets blown? Rev 8:2 And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them. You'll notice these judgments happen during the tribulation through chapter 8-9 Now let's look at the resurrection of the dead. Rev 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. The souls mentioned here did not worship the beast or his image (tribulation) and this was the FIRST resurrection. Text is clear.

@@TheRyno525 Man Pre-tribulation Rapture clearly teaches a single resurrection for the dead in Christ. It might help you to watch a video or two by Dr. Andy woods. If you would do that and then come back with a question. There are valid answers for all your points explaining in full the doctrine of Pre-tribulation all in simple easy to follow videos explaining pros and cons. I would be unable to bring you up to date here in simple posts. It will clearly answer your questions about the trumpets. if you are honestly looking for the info you will be able to find many quality sources. Thanks

Rev. 4:2 after this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, come up hither......

what? that's a huge stretch from that verse. He is talking to John being transported to heaven in order to show him end time events. That says nothing of apre-trib rapture and doesn't even come close to eluding to one

@@Tagsum next in chapter 4 you have the 24 elders, from every tribe, tongue and nation, all singing about their redemption, and praising God, crowned with gold crowns, which they cast at Jesus feet, dressed in white robes. The number 24 is associated with the priesthood. In 1st chronicles 24, David divides the priesthood into 24 courses, or rather in modern terms "24 department heads." This is the raptured church.

@@Tagsum God sets forth patterns to guide us.

@@Tagsum Paul said there is a crown laid up for those who love his appearing, Jesus said let no man take your crown from you, now how could a man take your crown? Maybe, by talking you out of it?

Amen! POST Tribulation is the TRUTH! 1/ Apostasy 2/ Man of Sin is revealed 3/ Great Tribulation ends 4/ Events seen in the Sun and Moon and Stars 5/ Jesus COMES 6/ First Resurrection takes place 7/ Church Gathered to Meet Jesus 8/ Satan is bound 9/ Jesus destroys that Man of Sin 10/ Jesus Tramples the Wine Press of His ORGE!

The problem is, they think the great tribulation is the wrath of God. It's satan's wrath, not God's.

Why would we fail during the tribulation, Gods clearly marks his own as the Beast marks his own so I don't quite understand how we could be a beaten up bride. Rather we are victorious through Christ. Our Jesus proves us with each difficulty and we grow in strength. We are to be vigilant and put on the armour and its heavy but as Paul says I beat myself daily as we must also to subdue our flesh and strengthen our spirit so that on that day we are able to stand and receive our crown.

@@Poppya2024 TRUTH! Proverbs 23:23

@@Moodboard39 the Antichrist will come at the beginning of the 7year tribulation period. But for the first 3.and a half years he appears to be the world's friend especially Israel. Then he show his true colors and that's when the Beast will arise and everyone who follows him will receive the Mark Rev 13. So far no one matching his description is on the horizon but we are inching towards a one world government of which the Antichrist will head. We will wait a see but look for the signs of a leader who brings peace to the world and sets up a new government.

Paul has the answer to your statement and that is Jesus is NOT COMING to GATHER the Church to Himself UNTIL the APOSTASY and the Man of Sin is revealed whom Jesus destroys with the Brightness of His Coming! Paul said that the COMING of Jesus will not be taking place UNTIL after the Working of Satan! Its all about what God has Prophesied not about being deceived by False Doctrines! The Blessed Hope is our Lords COMING and partaking in the First Resurrection! Gabriel and Jesus both Prophesy what must happen before Jesus will COME and both Prophesy that Man of Sin being revealed and destroyed by Jesus!

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it. The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. =================================== "It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view." The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197. =================================== The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected.

@Country gal well, I guess you’re kind of proving my point. There are millions of Christians who believe in pre-trib rapture, and untold hundreds of Xians who have written books about the doctrine with many substantial scriptural evidences. Dwight Pentecost “Things To Come”. Chuck Missler’s many videos and writings on the subject, are just two quick references that come to my mind. You must think they’re all blind? As opposed to just thinking they just have a legitimate difference of opinion on a biblical teaching.

@Country gal So rather than engage in a discussion you just dismiss me and millions of Christians with opinions different from yours on this matter as those wanting to have their ears tickled? Nice. How is that not condescending?

I'm with you. Pre trib is a complete flasehood and an obvious one at that.. sad that so many believe it. So you believe that there will be a big power outage? Hmm I feel thats coming too

@@moto1188 Chuck was prideful. He wouldn't change when the light of truth was exposed.

@Country gal same for me, we walked in the wilderness 40 years. then came the promised land.

You can pause the video and write them down that way in the meanwhile.

clearly no one knows the day or the hour but the father

I just want to add that Jesus returns 2028. We that are still alive and remain will be caught up together with the saints raised from the dead. ... Actually, Jesus returns in 2030 not 2028 it is found in Hosea6:1-3 ... 2 DAYS code for 2,000yrs from Israel's rejection of Him in 30AD. 2,000+30 =2030. Hosea5:14 15 I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.. this is for Israel's 1/3 remnant... This is not the Rapture of the Church; Rapture will take place "one week" code for 7yrs earlier... 2023 no man knows the "DAY" or "HOUR" but we can know the YEAR.

@@rightlydividingtheword5430 - Well, now we know what years He won't come back. 😏

@@melodyseverything6999 Melody , be clear on what Iam pointing out the scriptures are saying and check them in context for yourself. I Agree the SCRIPTURES say that " No Man knows the Day and hour"..., that is "DAY" and "HOUR" NOT "TIME" or "YEAR" and is referring to the RAPTURE of the CHURCH, NOT 2nd Coming for Israel " DAY and "HOUR" is given for that by Jesus in Matt. 24:15,29 search it out also in Hosea6:1-3

@@melodyseverything6999 Melody I did not write those passages, God did search in context, and you will understand what God wants us ALL to know.

No. Only falling away.

AND it may not be exactly as they expected. Matthew 24: 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Who lives and who dies? Who remains and who is taken? Proverbs 2: 21-22 For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it. But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it. Zechariah 13: 8-9 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God. Matthew 13: 49-50 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Luke 17: 26-27 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Luke 17: 28-29 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

Correction. The day of the Lord is the GREAT and TERRIBLE day. It will be both.

@@halfsheephalfjesus7357 Matthew 24:29-30 King James Version 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

@@zunguphilisiwe4732 I know…..

I do not think that this means that all disciples of Jesus will necessarily be martyred in the Great tribulation. Of course a true believer knows they have been saved by grace through faith and that not of themselves. Jesus Christ is our only salvation. Here is the passage of scripture that really opened my eyes to post-trib. Matthew 24:27-31 Jesus tells us exactly the events that take place when He returns to the earth. You can see there that "all the nations" see the Son of Man coming in the clouds and then with the voice of the arc angel and the trumpet of God the Lord gathers His elect from the four corners of heaven (and the four corners of the earth) (Mark 13:27) And as you can see in Matthew 24:29 this all takes place "Immediately after the tribulation of those days." Does this make sense? And finally in 1 Corinthians 15:51 Paul says, "Behold, I tell you a MYSTERY..." regarding the rapture of the church. Then in Revelation 10:7 "but in the days of the sounding of the 7th. angel (trumpet), when he is about to sound,...THE MYSTERY OF GOD WOULD BE FINISHED, as He declared to His servants the prophets."

I will give you some better arguments from the Bible ( than the video makes) that shows the Bible does support the pre-trib rapture...you can think about them and read the verses for yourself. Three arguments , but there are many others. #3 Jesus said "no man knows the day nor the hour"...mid tribbers and post tribbers take that to mean the day or the hour of the second coming. But Daniel in Daniel ch 12 asks the angel a question "How long until ALL of these things are fulfilled" ? And the angel gives him a number , 1290 days. From reading Daniel and other parts of the Bible we know that this is 1290 days from a certain event...and that event is the day the antichrist enters the temple and declares himself to be God. So if the Church is present during the Tribulation, as soon as they see that event happen, they will know that Jesus will return in 1290 days. This contradicts what Jesus said...and the only way to avoid the contradiction is to understand that Jesus was not talking about his second coming...he was talking about the rapture. That gets rid of the post tribbers. #2 What are some of the rewards that Jesus said he would give to the faithful Christian in heaven, from the seven letters to the churches ? He said he would give them a throne, a crown and a white robe. Now read John's description of the 24 elders in heaven...what are they doing? Sitting on thrones, wearing crowns and wearing white robes. We know these elders are not angels because later in revelation it mentions that the angels are with them. And we know it's not elders from Israel because God isn't done with them yet until the end of the Tribulation. That gets rid of mid tribbers. #1 The best argument because it is from the Christian doctrine of Soteriology and foundational to the understanding of salvation itself is 1st John ch 4 vs1-3 which says.... " Friends, do not believe every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you know the spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not from God. This is the spirit of the anti-christ whom you have heard is coming and even now is in the world." Okay how in the world does this tell us that the Church will not have to go through the Tribulation? We all need to understand that because we are "sinful flesh" the only way Jesus could save us is by taking on our flesh, so that he could take upon himself our sin as an acceptable substitute for us. But he also took something else upon himself...God's WRATH...the wrath we deserved for our sin. The seven year tribulation IS the WRATH of God on Christ rejecting evildoers...even the evildoers hiding in the caves and mountains acknowledge this right at the start of the Tribulation in Revelation ch 6. So there is NO getting around the fact that ALL seven years of the Tribulation are the WRATH of God. Therefore, when anyone teaches or believes that the Church will go through the Tribulation, they are in effect saying that Christians will again be subject to God's WRATH even though Jesus Christ already took that upon himself on the cross. They are in effect "denying that Jesus came in the flesh". And what is the inspiration behind the spirit of this teaching? The spirit of the antichrist John tells us. That's why this is a very serious matter to understand correctly because not only is it a denial that Jesus came in the flesh...it CHEAPENS the salvation we received by our faith in the person and work of Jesus on the cross. Sort of like saying it was a waste of time...and Jesus made a mistake.

So the scripture doesn't mean what it say's? we need to not take it literal or only literal when it agrees with what you think it say's? Are we now catholics and we need man to tell us what it actually means? I'll play along though ok so last doesn't mean last, then what about the dead in Christ in your gospel I assume you think they are raised at the "rapture" and would be the first to meet Christ? Well then you need to explain away another point Rev 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. you have a few issues here, The soul's mentioned here didn't recieve the mark or worship it's image (Tribulation) and they are the FIRST resurrection, and the rest didn't come to life until AFTER the thousand years. Please explain that weak argument and tell me why the last trumpet, and the souls that went through the tribulation are called the first resurrection? plus I need to know why paul made those errors and how you knew that he didn't actually mean what he wrote. Please I "really need to get it" Thank you

After the persecution of the church, then they are raptured and God's wrath will fall on the world. So then why wouldn't it be post trib.

@@halfsheephalfjesus7357 Exactly, but the pretribbers claim the whole 7 years is God's wrath and over look certain passages thst divide the last 7 years in half. Dan 7:19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet; Dan 7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; Dan 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Dan 12:12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. they completely ignore that the last 7 years is divided into two halves, tribulation and great tribulation. Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? When does the wrath come, not until the end of the opening of the sixth seal. They claim to be bible believers yet they are more often than not bible deniers. The bio-implant=666 mark of the beast is already here and being rolled out worldwide, 4 counties are even now chipping their people A, C, G, S I would name them outright but when I do file 13 happens. The first country are Aussie's, the Second, we buy so much from them they are second to us in wealth, Third the county that started both world wars, and the last is a country we named one of our delicacies after Swedish meatballs.

... that's interesting, but its not how you should arrive at the 7 years. The answer is in Daniel. Daniles 70 weeks. Each WEEK is a period of SEVEN YEARS. Time stops when the Messiah is 'cut off' (crucified by His own people) at the 69th week. That leave a final week ... which is SEVEN YEARS. It is then that the antichrist will betray Israel in teh MIDST of the week ... which is to say, "MIDDLE" of the 7 years. That is why we read passages that say -1260 days -42 months -time, times, and the dividing of time -time, times, and half time They are talkign about the HALF period of that 7 years. But, as you say, the full period is 7 years.

this ain't no jewish wedding. THIS IS THE COMING OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST WITH ALL HIS SAINTS and ANGELS

@@LastDaySaintJames uh.... its the "marriage supper of the lamb" lol

@@melissaiscrazybaby WHAT does the HOLY BIBLE say about the marriage supper of the Lamb? Revelation 19: 9, 17-18 9 Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. 17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. 19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

your words --- > How long does a day represent in the bible? A year. The Bible --- > 2 Peter 3: 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. .

1 Tim.4:1-2 (apostensontai) *DEPART FROM THE FAITH* 2 Thess.2:3 *(apostacia) DEPART/Apostacy* Gal.5:4 *FALLEN FROM GRACE* Matt.24:10 *FALL AWAY* **Dan.11:*30-31** *FORSAKE the Holy Covenant* Acts 21:21 KJV 1611 and Geneva Bible translate "Apostacia" as **FORSAKE**

To keep, can also mean protecting. It doesn't necessarily mean snatch away so that you are not there during the experience. The Hebrew boys in the lions den, were in a lions den with the lions , but were never touched. They were in a burning furnace amongst the flames but never burnt . Just a thought

WRONG!! The man child is a single person. You are deceived.

@@halfsheephalfjesus7357Not Wrong! Isa 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child (firstfruits 144,000). Isa 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth HER CHILDREN. (more than a single person)

@@breadoflife2075 nope! Those scriptures don’t match. Revelation 12 man child is also revelation 3:21 again a single person. The true prodigal son. The Christ has a Christ! The son of the Christ.

@@halfsheephalfjesus7357 Question: How could Jesus be persecuted on earth when he was already in heaven after his crucifixion? Example: Paul's conversion Act 9:3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, WHY PERSECUTEST THOU ME? And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. Answer: Gen_2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife (Bride of Christ): and they shall be one flesh. And again: Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

pre trib rapture is of demons and cowards. The deceived luke warm Christians fall into the trap. Good riddence

Mind Your P's and Q's, if Daniel 9:27 was fulfilled in the first century, what was the abomination of desolation that Jesus warned everyone to flee Judea to get away from when they saw it standing at the Temple?

@@biblehistoryscience3530 That was Titus and the Roman soldiers in 70 AD. Luke confirms Matthew Luke 21:20 KJV And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that *the desolation thereof is nigh.* Edit This "vengeance" below is from God for the Jews condemning their Messiah to death (Jesus cursed the fig tree that didn't die until later, signifying Israel would be punished later). The temple will remain desolate until the fullness of the Gentiles (the end of the age - He returns). Luke 21:22,24 KJV For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. [24] And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

@@SSNBN777, the Roman general Gallus fulfilled Jesus' Luke 21 prophesy of armies surrounding Jerusalem in 66 AD, but he soon withdrew back to Syria, and Jerusalem remained an open city for many months, so that's when the church moved away. After a while, Jewish zealots started preventing anyone from leaving Jerusalem, then four Roman legions surrounded the the city in 70 AD and built a siege wall around the city walls, so absolutely no one could escape while they closed in. In fact, most Jews died from violence, disease or starvation before Titus and his forces reached the Temple, then survivors were either executed or enslaved, but believers had moved away several years earlier anyway. As you can see, Jesus' Matt 24 warning to flee when they saw the abomination at the Temple was incompatible with his prophesy about Jerusalem in Luke 21, and the abomination prophesy couldn't possibly have been fulfilled before the Temple was destroyed. Therefore, the abomination of desolation is still in the future.

It does work to lead people to Christ. It may not merit detailed study but can always be helpful in presenting biblical truth/Gospel.

@@angelioforosaletheia8855 apologetics is a modern day invention. It never had a place in the early church and it never should have a place in any Bible believing church. You are welcome to believe whatever tickles your ears. God bless.

@@kat5266 Are you sure that's right? Doesn't Jesus say in the New Testament that we should a) love God with our mind ...and b) Be ready to give a good answer to unbelievers ? Look at the New Testament. Who was the smartest , most educated man ? The apostle Paul. Who did God use the most to write the majority of the books and have the most influence on the world ? The apostle Paul. Study and learning is a GOOD thing, even if you only learn a few things well. We can't all be Paul...but we can all read the word and study it...and listen carefully to faithful teachers who have spent their whole life studying it. That's how I learned most of what I know.

I think the apologists are more for Christians than for non-believers. When I was not a believer, if I have ever heard of these people, I would have never read their books. But as a believer, I really find their work helpful and encouraging to my walk with Christ. I like read their work as part of my devotionals section of my Bible study/reading.

Pre trib rapture is a pure lie of the devil. A cowards doctrine of demons.

You make a statement, that there is a secret Rapture before the Tribulation without biblical proof. 1.Cor 15:51+52 is Post-trib! It says "at the last trump". We read in Rev 11:15-18, that the dead will rise and the loan is given to His servants.That is when Christ reigns and the kingdoms of this world are become our Lord's. That is at the 7th trumpet and His 2. coming and not before the Tribulation! 1. Th 4:13-18 is also Post-trib! It says "the dead in Christ will rise first". The resurrection and the Rapture go together. Rev 11:15 told us already, that this is at His 2. coming. But Paul gave us the order of the resurrections, so it will also tell us, when the Rapture happens. There are only 3 resurrections with the change of the body to immortality (1.Cor 15:23+24). The First fruits, the OT Saints with the resurrection of Christ (Mat 27:53), then afterwards the NT Saints at His parousia and 1000 years later the Millennium Saints at the end (Rev 20:4-6). The First Resurrection is the first and not the second, the word protos means the same as H2725=first fruits, always first, here the resurrection of the NT Saints including the Tribulation Saints (Rev 7:9+14), we (including Paul) ALL will be changed in a moment at the last trump, the First Resurrection is not in stages! Jesus came once the first time and will appear the second time for Salvation (Rapture), that are not multiple comings (Heb 9:28). The Rapture is at His 2. coming (Mat 24:29-31; Luke 27:29+30; 2.Th 2:1; 1.Th 5:1-5; Rev 16:15-20; 11:15-18) after the Tribulation. The wrath of God in Greek is orge and comes at His 2. coming and not before. It is judgment to hell (Rev 14:10) for the wicked. The vials are thumos, that is His anger over sinners for repentance, it is not final, but temporary, big difference. But some believers will be kept from the evil one (Rev 6:12; 3:10), not raptured.

@@benny-yj7pq read mttw 24 shows that Jesus second coming is out to the public. It talks about if they say Jesus in the chambers hiding don’t believe him. In 1 cor 15, the rapture is a twinkling of an eye, instant. Not a long public showing to the world. The 7th trumpet is not the same as the last trump. KZfaq.com/realbiblevelievers

@@BettahThanIDeserve There is no secret coming of the Lord in the bible, just your assumption. The change of the body is in a moment, not the Rapture. OK Proof that Mat 24:29-31 is not the Rapture and Rev 11:15-18 is not the resurrection/Rapture. The 7th trump is the last trump. If you believe the last trump is the tekua (trump) of the feast, then it be, but it does not delete Rev 11:15-18, the Rapture at the last trump of the Feast is still After the Tribulation. You want to argue here, that is all, bring scripture to proof your point.

@@benny-yj7pq i’m not the one trying to argue here. I care about reaching your heart. Which is why I gave the youtube channel. If you’re unwilling to have a humble heart then fine go believe what you want, no ones stopping you. Have a good day

"Real" Bible believers indeed! I used to follow that narcissistic pastor until I heard him support the pre-trib lie. I guess that's one way the church will be deceived in these last days- by people and channels which presume the audacity to call themselves "REAL" Bible believers and then preach false doctrine. Word games has always been a worldly mode of deception so it's not surprising that there are some in the church who indulge in it as well. And what bigger deception than a title and a channel like the one mentioned! 🙄

Katie, does it occur to you as you recite those scriptures that the epistles were written to believers who have already been sealed by the Holy Spirit by the sign of speaking in tongues? Do you understand the difference between the book of Romans, which Paul wrote to help them understand basic faith in the Son of God which leads to salvation? The commands of Jesus during his time were to "Repent and believe the Gospel" After Jesus' resurrection and the Holy Spirit was given in the Book of Acts, He gave new commands for an already believing Christian. To repent, and he baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin. Remember, Christ told us that he would send his disciples the Comforter (The Holy Spirit which leads and guides us into all truth) Confession is made my mouth unto salvation, which is why we must repent and confess our sins daily. And those who endure unto the end shall be saved.

@@yungpadawan7060 The book of Acts is a TRANSITIONAL book, many things took place in the book of Acts. Also, do you know who wrote the book of Acts? Apostle Luke. Is apostle Luke and apostle Peter our apostle for the dispensation of the Church Age of Grace? NO!!!! they are NOT!!! Paul is our apostle for the dispensation of the Church Age of Grace. So you are not rightly dividing the word of truth, 2 Timothy 2:15 KJB. If you're trying to obey the scriptures written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, then you're following 'another' Jesus. Jesus Christ sent Paul. What Paul writes are the commandments of the Lord to us in the Church Age of Grace. Apostle Paul wrote Romans through Philemon. That's our doctrine to read and study. Grace and Peace. If you don't preach this 👇 you are in a cult and you are preaching doctrines of devils!!!! How to get a lost soul saved from hell. Please read and get saved NOW!! Signs, wonders, miracles, visions, water baptism, laying on hands, speaking in tongues, keeping the sabbath, the sinner's prayer, etc.., were for the Jews, the Dispensation of Times Past and Times to come (that's the Tribulation period). Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are NOT the Gospel for us to get saved in the dispensation of Grace. Why? It's simple, apostle Paul makes it VERY CLEAR that Gal_1:8 KJB - But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. Gal_1:9 KJB - As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. We are in the Dispensation of Grace and Paul is our apostle to the Church (Believers in the Body of Christ). Dispensation of Times to Come, is not that far away, it will come right after the Church is raptured (caught up). Right after the Church Age ends, it will be the Times of Jacob's Trouble (tribulation period will take place right after). Please know your Doctrines, rightly dividing the word of truth, so you can have SOUND DOCTRINE. 2 Timothy 2:15 KJB If anyone is reading this message, please read 'till the end and I pray that you will get washed and saved in the precious blood of the Lamb, who is our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Ephesians 5:16 KJB - 16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. We are in the end times, what's happening in the world right now is just a preview before the tribulation will take place right after the rapture of the Church (all Believers who are in Christ Jesus, saved in the Gospel of our Salvation in 1 Corinthians 15: 1-4 KJB) What's going to happen during the tribulation time, will be hell on earth. So please everyone, get saved NOW before it's too late for your souls (those who are lost and continue to sin, even when they know the truth). God's wrath is upon you, sinners in the hands of an angry God. How can a lost soul get saved? Here's how you can get saved by BELIEVING The Gospel of our Salvation in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJB - [1] Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; [2] By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. [3] For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; [4] And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: Jesus Christ gave this Gospel to Paul who is our apostle to the dispensation of the Church Age of Grace, so that lost souls can get saved. It's the ONLY Gospel that saves lost souls!! Ephesians 2:8-9 KJB - 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 2 Timothy 2:15 KJB - Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Praise God ALWAYS, Amen!! Please get saved NOW before it's too late for your soul!! There's 1 Eternity to choose from, Heaven or Hell, choose wisely for your souls!! Grace and Peace in Christ Jesus!!

I'm quite familiar with which of Jesus' disciples wrote which epistles. Are you familiar with the words of Jesus? "He who keeps my commandments, he is my disciple. And these signs shall follow them that believe, they shall lay hands on the sick and they will recover they shall cast out devils, speak with new tongues and if they drink any deadly poison it will not hurt them." It sounds like you are the one idolizing Paul as your prophet. He was sent to preach to the Gentiles about the death burial and resurrection of Christ. You are a silly woman cherry picking which words of Christ to follow!!!

Katie you are greatly deceived my friend. Please get back into the scriptures and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you. Also, Gods word never changes and is perfect. The epistles of John, Mark, etc and Acts and Romans are speaking of the same Jesus.

@@1Corinthians15_1-4 the abomination starts great tribulation Matthew 24: 15, 21 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. from the abomination till the end be 1290 days and 1335 for the blessed Daniel 12: 11-13 11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. 13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days. from the abomination GOD's people are strong and do exploits Daniel 11: 31-32 31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. 32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits. this is the same as the two witness ministry for 1260 days Revelation 11: 5-6 And if any man will hurt them, (((fire))) proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. witnesses are GOD's people Revelation 11: 3-4 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. witness = candlestick Revelation 1: 20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. candlestick = church witness = candlestick = church And if any man will hurt them, (((fire))) proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: Luke 3: 16 16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with (((fire))): Be baptized with the HOLY SPIRIT and with (((fire))) and be a candlestick. ENDURE to the end. the same shall be saved.

On the Day of Pentecost Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel" in Acts 2:36. On that day about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ. The Gentiles were not grafted into the Church until several years later. Therefore, faithful Israel and the Church cannot be separated. Who is really teaching “Replacement Theology” ? (Did God fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary? Matthew 26:28, John 19:30) The advocates of modern Dispensational Theology often accuse others of promoting “Replacement Theology”, or some may even say “Antisemitism”. What does the Bible say about their accusations? 1. Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with Abraham’s modern descendants? (See Galatians 3:8) 2. Who is replacing the one people of God in John 10:16, with two peoples of God ? 3. Who is replacing the one seed (Christ) in Galatians 3:16, with the many seeds? 4. Who is replacing the children of the promise in Romans 9:8, with the children of the flesh? 5. Who is replacing the faithful “remnant” of Israelites in Romans 11:1-5, with the Baal worshipers? 6. Who is replacing the word "so" in Romans 11:26, with the word "then"? 7. Who is attempting to replace the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles? Why did Peter address the crowd as “all the house of Israel” in Acts 2:36, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on the Day of Pentecost? 8. Based on Hebrews 9:15, the New Covenant cannot be separated from the Messiah’s death. Is the covenant in Daniel 9:27 connected to the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26. Is the covenant with the “many” in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the “many” in Matthew 26:28? If it is, some have replaced the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27 with a future covenant made by an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9. (See the 1599 Geneva Bible used by the Pilgrims.) 9. Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology often accuse others of teaching “Replacement Theology”, but are they the masters of it? Are they promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race? (See “genealogies” in Titus 3:9) Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis? 10. Watch the KZfaq video “Genesis of Dispensational Theology” to see the origin of this man-made doctrine, which is less than 200 years old. It was brought to the United States about the time of the Civil War by John Nelson Darby. The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread through much of the modern Church. Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas Texas was created in part to promote John Darby’s Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology. Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church: “The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.” Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107. Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.” Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323. John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated… "...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.” John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are there two peoples of God in John 10:16? (See also 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11.) What is the land promise to the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16? Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, is this earth “eternal”? Will it be replaced by a new earth? Based on Acts 2:36, and Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and James 1:1-3, can faithful Israel and the Church be separated into two different groups? Who is the New Covenant promised to in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Hebrews 8:6-13? Will modern Orthodox Jews ever be saved outside of the New Covenant Church?

You are deceived and a loser God hates you

You a liar. THE BRIDE, The Lambs WIFE, is *THE CITY, Rev.21:1-*10** *Gal. 4:*26 "But the Jerusalem above, is free, WHICH IS *MOTHER** *of us all."* The Church is *"The BODY OF Christ:* 1 Cor.12:*27 1 Cor.12:*13 1 Cor.10:*17 Rom.12:*4 Eph.4:*14 *Eph.4:4-6* ONE BODY ONE Spirit ONE Hope ONE Lord ONE Faith ONE Baptism ONE God... *(ZERO Brides)* The body of Christ has been beaten battered n bloodied for 2000 years. ALL CULTS, like Catholic, Pentecostal, Mornons, Jehovahs Witnesses and Pre Trib Dispensationalists call their false/harlot churches as "The Bride"

You silly mouth. Abraham, Issac and Rebeckah were all GENTILES.

2 Thess.2:1-6 is proof text that Pre Trib is a liar.

@@-PlowsharesintoSwords I know, thus it is not a actual proof text for pretrib, even if 2 thess 2:7 was an accurate translation( which it is not) . because of the Greek grammar and proper exegesis of the immediate and surrounding context, it is unwarranted to understand (interpret)the restrainer which is a neuter and a masculine in the greek text to be the Holy Spirit or the church. Thus what I presented is the logical conclusion with proper hermeneutics and exegesis.

@@josephkuzara2609 No.

@@-PlowsharesintoSwords We agree that 2 thess 2 is not to be used as a proof text for pretrib, so why do you still say no? Wether you agree with me that 2 thess 2:7 is a false translation is still an open door. As you have not expressed negatively towards that. But we have no disagreement concerning 2 thess 2 being wrongly used as a proof text for pretribber's. Sense that is a false teaching concerning the return of Messiah to rapture believers.