F1 drivers' 3 different ways to attack a corner: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/f7Vkkq9qv9bdlZc.html

considering mclaren even had to use a lower drag setup the difference is insane. the merc engine truly was something else man and gave mercedes a lot of room to play around with the aero/setup

CAN YOU GO FLAT? Alonso: Yes, every corner.

Big respect for Honda from developing GP2 Engine (2015-2017) into Powerful Engine (2019-Now).

Many people fail to understand why the McLaren-Honda partnership from 2015 to 2017 was a huge failure, especially considering their dominance in the 80s. The primary reason for this failure was that McLaren did not contribute to Honda's power unit development. Honda had to rely solely on their engineers, which led to an "experimental" setup for the engine. The Honda RAH615H engine failed because Honda developed the engine without essential data. In contrast, the partnership with Red Bull was successful because Red Bull allowed Honda to work closely with them.

Now I get it when Alonso says GP2 engine

Also worth noting the Mercedes is running a longer gear ratio here, it’s maintaining the same acceleration or better with longer gears, very serious difference in power is visible

he changed the song

Mclaren forced Honda to enter in 2015 when the origional deal was in fact 2016. After Honda joined, they just forced Honda to adapt McLaren’s chassis design when in fact it was a faulty design. The chief engineer for the car at the time was fired in 2018 when the chassis was so bad even in Renault engines. On the other hand, Honda revived with Toro Rosso and RedBull in 2018 with Pierre Gasly’s P4 finish in Bahrain.

You should cover Alonso's fastest lap (DHL fastest lap award) around Hungary 2017 with that same car and engine

Wasn't that also the lap where Alonso went full throttle through Pouhon, which confused the ERS system?

great job from vandoorne , what a perfect slip stream

Bringback the old music...

Well Fernando can always say he was the first to do Pouhon flat out😉, having a much less powerful engine at least made him achieve something😁 on that weekend in 2017. And actually the 2016 Mclaren Honda wasn't that bad to be honest, the engine wasn't a disaster like in 2015 and 2017.

This channel is 🔥. This is one of literally only a handful of channels I watch at normal playback speed. Post as much as you like. I’ll watch it. Your data analysis is so freaking cool. My favorite is the Verstappen breakdown of his supernatural stint in Miami that I felt like no one talked about! That was frustrating. hahaha I tend to pull for Hamilton and Yuki but I am awestruck by Max’s race craft. Newsflash: it’s not just the car. Sincerely, Education Scientist with a background in Math and Aerospace Engineering who secretly dreams of being an Aerodynamics engineer for an F1 team who secretly wants to be an F1 driver or Super Formula OR! a driver in the old CART series! Yeah that would be cool too. Anyway just wasting 15 minutes on KZfaq at your comments expense. Seriously, dope channel. Much respect.

Imagine Alonso with the Mercedes

The real hero of the Honda story in this era, besides the engineers never giving up at Sakura, is Toro Rosso. Franz Tost who was the TP at the time took a big risk and basically gave Honda the task to try things every weekend regardless if it results in penalties. They also developed the car for the Honda engine, not like McLaren who demanded a size Zero concept and what not. Honda found the Sorcerer's Stone really early in the season and from that on the rest is history.

I love how the left video plays only in the left ear and the right video plays in the right ear. Nice touch.

"The engine feels good... much slower than before"

Vandoorne`s tow was actually perfect

This guy already in Spa when race weekend not even start in Hungaroring 😂

Thank you for making good use of the background music, it reminds me of browsing through my garage in Gran Turismo. Excellent data and explanations, differences that seemed subtle before are so much more distinct now.

"Equal engines for everyone"

In addition to the weaker engine, McLaren had a super drag and therefore did not perform well on the straights, probably if they had a cleaner concept, they would be faster on the straights

The Honda engine wasn't the only issue holding McLaren back, their arrogance regarding their own chassis & aero was another big factor ("We have one of the best chassis in the field."). They realized that a year later, when they ran the Renault PU and were miles off Red Bull with the same PU. The McLaren was a very draggy car (also in 2018), as the former Red Bull engineers who switched to McLaren believed in the "Newey-way", meaning they sacrificed everything for downforce. This would backfire at a track like Spa, which demands efficient downforce. Mercedes, on the other hand, not only had a very potent PU, but also created the most efficient downforce (partly due to their low-rake design). Spa highlights the strengths an weaknesses of a car like no other circuit can, as it demands downforce for the long corners in the middle sector, as well as straightline speed in the other two sectors.

Alonso moves from the teams who are about to produce a dominant car. The other guy is extremely lucky to be financed and supported by Mclaren since early childhood. Also the fact that he was proven to win 2008 championship by cheating and THE FIA admitted covering up also makes him lucky.

Just a few years in and it’s already insane to see these cars without halo

Idk where you live but thank you for always uploading at times my Australian ass can watch

The 2015 honda PU (RA615H) is just disgraceful, they make the engine as simple and small as possible even decided not to use the equal length downpipe but instead use log downpipe to spin the turbo that obviously can lower the engine perfomance but theh still use this completely radical concept when the other teams use equal length, they also simplified the intake plenum, all this with the intention to have smaller engine packaging in order for the car to have slimmer and smaller body allowing the aero department to make the car more aerodynamic but in the end it turns out to be a stupid choice, not only the car is down on power but the aero is also awful, a complete disaster for mclaren and honda.

What you're missing out of the video is that Honda's struggles with performance masked how draggy McLaren's car was and that the wind tunnel data wasn't correlating with what was happening on track. When they switched to Renault engines in 2018, that's when they realised the issue was infact the car and not the engine

I think also in 2017 the McLaren had the problem of the drag, because in 2016 the speed on the straights was not bad compare to the Ferrari, Renault or Mercedes engines.

McLaren and Ron Dennis were the reason Honda took as long as it did to get up to speed but their proficiency told in the end without question.

Intresting that Alonso had to dab the brakes as well through eau rouge/radillion, dirty air probably played a part but still...

honda were wrongly blamed . Mclaren was slow with merc engine as well

Mercedes 2017 engine was the best in hybrid era along with 2019 ferrari and mercedes again in the 2nd half of 2021.

@f1. Essa é a melhor câmera de transmissão

Interesting seeing the green LEDs being part of the shift lights on hamilton's car. You don't see that these days afaik

Alonso's career decisions are legendary

Best car ever, 2014-2021.....

Crazy that the same engine manufacturer would go on a 3 championship win run a mere 4 years later.

in s3 honda engine clipped the engineers said that alonso took the corner flat and they didn’t expect that so the engine electricy power wasn’t planned to do that

Can't remember which race but there's a quali lap in gp2 better than Honda at the time, was surreal!

So Alonso wasn't lying or exaggerating all those years ago, damn.

Honda needed some time to develope their engine. Once they came to a place wich was acceptable in 2019-2020 it took off and they got in 2021 their first title with RedBull

If the acceleration wasn't much difference between 150-250km/h, then it'd be fair to conclude a drag penalty rather than pure horsepower. Obviously, mercedes were more power but drag plays a much larger role in vmax than pure hp. Worth noting that mercedes ran low raked long wheel base compared to mclaren which had the high rake.

Please compare this footage of Alonso the the GP2 polesitter of the same year

Stoffel with 65 place grid penalty, nowadays you can't get that even in F1 games

Don't understand why haven't seen the tow being used much by teams recently

I still think that the 2017 McLaren with a proper engine, could’ve been a championship contender.

The min corner speed in la source is also huge (+/-12 km/h)!

''65 place grid penalty anyways'' bruh.

Alonso isn't wrong tho

Context would help a lot here This was tbe race with a completely different engine concept for McLaren and they thought they had unlocked something

"we have one of the best chassis" - mckaren 2017

It wasn’t Hondas fault. McLaren weren’t working with them, they were essentially designing the car then giving it to Honda and Honda had to work with it. Communication wasn’t great between the 2

The music track is 🔥

We really lost 3 years of Fernando Alonso’s career with these Honda engines.. thanks Honda.

I like the new song more than the old one!

Honda needed atleast 1 more year to have their engine ready. Im guessing things were rushed for 2015 because Fernando was joining the team, so the suits at McLaren needed it for yesterday

Since F1 racing is a race on a comprehensive track. Cornering performance and straight-line performance are actually different. In terms of intuitive data, Honda, Mercedes, and Ferrari power units are essentially similar in horsepower. This closeness is normal due to the various restrictions of technical rules. However, Red Bull's monopoly in 2022-2023 is not due to the power unit advantage, but because they can get more cornering grip. It is actually not easy to get downforce in the Venturi tunnel. This is a rumor that has been circulating wildly in recent years. Honda has a more powerful engine. In fact, it is not. The comprehensive performance of F1 racing needs to be comprehensively judged by combining downforce data and the cornering speed of the racing car. Simply put, when the driver can push the car to the limit, he can get a greater cornering speed, provided that the car cannot slip. And downforce is needed in the corners. The implementation of this ground effect causes most of the downforce of the racing car to act under the chassis. And it is actually not easy to find the correct ground clearance here. The principle of this aerodynamics is to form a vortex under the chassis through airflow, thereby creating a low-pressure area. The degree of downforce is proportional to the ground clearance of the chassis. The reason for the change in 2024 is that McLaren, Mercedes, and Ferrari, after many failures, began to solve the problem, and solved the most important problem of dolphin jump. This also reduced Red Bull's aerodynamic advantage rapidly. The overall performance of the current car should be higher than that of McLaren. McLaren has lower tire loss than Red Bull, and they are exhausted later, but McLaren has strategic errors. Mercedes and Ferrari have solved some problems, although both teams are not stable enough. But this does not mean that Honda has the most powerful power unit. These are two different things. I hate those radical supporters of Red Bull. They don't understand aerodynamics, they don't understand the technical regulations of the FIA, they are very obsessed with fantasy and very aggressive.

The chasis of that McLaren was really good. But the engine was too underwhelming.

Here McLaren barely made a dent in Merc, with tow and max power, as opposed to 'not max power'. And at the end of quali Alonso was STILL 2.1 seconds slower than Hamilton. Best sector times: 0.5s, 1.3s behind, 0.8s behind. DAYUM. Merc OP 👀

No one mentioning stoffels 65 place grid penalty ⁉️

It's amazing how a powerful engine allows you to use a more loaded aero setup. Even with a ton more of downforce, the Mercedes was significantly faster on the straights

65 place grid penalty? Didn't know that was a thing

Apparently was Alonso was running such high downforce he could take Pouhon flat out

you dont need to freeze the video for so much time when theres something to read, we can pause it

Aah, back in the old days where cars could get light years of grid penalties

You guys sure that Alonso went flat through Pouhon? I mean he even tipped the brakes in Eau Rouge...

Bring back the old song

Such is life, driving a Honda

I'm hoping it doesn't suck for Aston Martin

Tht gp2 engine is dominating now

Alonso was right, it was a GP2 engine !

This was the same merc engine that outspeed vettel's ferrari with DRS and slipstream in this same race lmao

In hindsight, McLaren and Honda splitting up was actually the best decision for both parties.

but still it's a special machine, other manufacturers wouldn't possibly want to work like that, but Honda is capable, even though the performance isn't good, but it's a special machine, created with a very different design from other machines, created from the lowest point and not appreciated, just told to work without talking..

1:11 I think you are making a bit of a mistake here, Hamilton's lowest corner speed was 79 while Alonso's was 68, so that's already a huge difference at the corner exit. No wonder Alonso cannot keep up with Hamilton when he carries a lot less speed through the corner.

Why Alonso braked in the eau rouige while flat?

How can I find the telemetries?

then they switched to Renault, things didn't got that much better and they found out it was not only the engine. Their chassis was also draggy as hell.

titel put a grin on my face

Honda chose the wrong engine solution (supercharger placement) and given that the rules at the time restricted engine development a lot, it couldn't work quickly. Changes could only be slow. Honda had no experience, the engines didn't work, Mclaren couldn't test because the show was just changing an engine that had very poor performance. I would like to point out that Honda ended up making an even smaller engine than they had with the Mclaren, but not until 2020/2021. There was no problem with the size. They just couldn't do it in the beginning and had to learn it. Honda already knew in the first year that their engine was bad, but thanks to the chips, it was only possible to fix it and change it in 2017. There, for a change, there was a big problem with the MGUH shaft (they copied the Mercedes style) and they were only able to fix it in 2018, where they were at Renault's level of performance. The improvement came gradually only in 2019 when there was a rapid development, still they had to use more engines to have enough power. Less mileage allowed them to use more power and develop quickly at the same time. Honda entered F1 unprepared (Ron Dennis talked them into coming a year early) and that's why it started so badly and it took 4 years to get it back together. It wasn't McLaren's fault...

It would be nice to add a countdown timer to each pause scene. 每次画面暂停的时候给个倒计时就好了。

It still confuses me why Alonso stood in McLaren for so long

where did you get the speedometer for such old videos ?

From my understanding, McLaren wasn’t very helpful in the design of the engine as they wanted a very slim engine to fit under their cover and didn’t really work close with Honda or listen to them

McLaren should've rebuild the whole chassis so the honda engine could fit in that car, but they didn't.

Mclaren now has the fastest car without Honda 😂😂

McLaren didn’t help Honda with their size zero concept insistence but to see where Honda got to eventually considering where they were is truly remarkable but speaks to the hard work they did McLaren gave RB an open invite to a works deals that they were craving for by being inflexible with PU layout and cooling requirements as a result

I’m sorry but did they say Stoffel had a _65_ place grid penalty?

How can you tell when ERS is being used?

Why 65 place grid penalty for Vandoorne? 2:34

kinda crazy when you look at 2 years later the Ferrari made Mercedes look like they were standing still

now Merc aren't dominating, lets bring back the party modes, maximum power for everyone

Kinda wish engines would just be the same because it would make everything closer

@yelistener did this comparison comfort you softly after Lewis brought you smack down back to reality at Silverstone?

Just hoping that we won't see this again in 2-3 more years

McLaren was slow because they lacked aero efficiency and had high drag troughout 2015-2017. The Honda engine shape didn’t suit well McLaren chassis so they had to make some sacrifice to the aero.

As much as Honda was a handicap for McLaren, McLaren too held Honda back. Both were much better with other partners.