Next time you tell someone they're out of their mind, at least get your facts straight. John never pulled prime Denis. John beat him twice in the 2008 Zloty Tur (5 weeks after getting swept by Devon at Arm Wars) and 5-1 in a supermatch in 2009. Then he got crushed by Denis in 2010. That was years before Denis's peak; he was strongest overall in 2013-2014 and in his best armwrestling shape in 2018. I'm not guessing at this - he's the one who said it based on his performance in the gym and sparring. Next, many people think Denis would beat Levan. Well, many people also think the world is flat. Nobody in their right mind believes prime Denis would beat Levan. He would've beaten Levan sometime prior to Levan winning the Zloty Tur perhaps, but after that Levan became too much. He was much more dominant than Denis. Next, when John beat Dave he only won because Dave was terribly worn out from his 3 rounds with Denis in the tournament round before he ran into John; John was much fresher and he has said himself that that's the only reason he beat Dave that day. Even then, John was an inch from getting pinned by Dave - it's ludicrous that you can look at their match and say John "destroyed" Dave. I already said prime John would beat Dave anyway but that match is not representative of either man's best shape. Georgi, Morozov, and Revaz are all speculation but I also said I favored John in all three matches. Jerry and John pulled each other in some of their best years and traded wins; I put John ahead of Jerry. As for Levan..... if even Engin Terzi, hands-down John's biggest worshiper thinks John can't beat Levan, I don't know why you think he could or what evidence you could produce that suggests he would. John's a mortal man. John's the best light-heavyweight ever and the GOAT because of the combination of his level and longevity. He doesn't have to have the highest peak to be the GOAT and if you think he did then you're the one who is out of his mind. Good day.

Lol ..man I love John as much as anyone but I don't think he'd beat Levan..are you taking John as he was or translating him to the "modern" era with rigorous training off the table and heavy PED usage ?

@@ChrisDrummondAW Chris, are we making an "as is" comparison or considering John in his physical prime with the current training methods that emphasize strength and a "whatever it takes" approach to roids etc ?

Your just emotional

@@ChrisDrummondAW are you not aware of johns shape at 2010 zloty?

2006 also when John literally toyed with Farid Usmanov in Vegas. That was nuts. He could beat him in 2 seconds with a top roll. But instead played with Farid in a straight up Hook match. Which was Farid’s strongest style. Just so that it would be competitive. And not boring

And just a comment on what would happen between prime John vs Morozov: I think that match would've look similar to how Morozov vs Prudnik looked.

​@@FlornmonkI couldn't see John winning that match, but your example was brilliant, now I can imagine how John could have bested the terminator with superior hand and table IQ.

Agreed

John would get beaten by current Devon in 105 and 115

@@Joeldupea Devon is the only exception.

Exactly Everything else is delusional

this is with John doing all that guys do today, right ? It's more of a strength sport now than it used to be..so, he'd have to do quite a bit of work off the table like almost everyone else..if he had the same advantages then it's hard to see him not doing well

​@@dodumichalcevskinewer fans trash him saying he wouldn't stand a chance against SHWs today but can't point to much that he lacked to be competitive against the best..

Yep ..folks are comparing without thinking.. John did well against "modern arm wrestlers" towards the end of the first phase of his career even though he was well into his 40s.. without stem cells, exosomes etc..he would be a totally different beast with current training methods and heavy PED usage

Its actually the opposite, people are too nostalgic with john

@@hasoonnine Yet none of these guys come close to the skill John had for 30 years. Not even Larratt. They need their gym, chemicals, and now stem cells to become relevant.

@@lethargicastengah572 John had that skill because everyone was shit. He is a talented and smart armwrestler that is very strong but now we have many talented and strong armwrestlers he wouldn't be able to beat the top super heavies of today like devon, ermes, levan, vitaly, etc

@@hasoonnine Is everybody was shit then what does that make you?

@@lethargicastengah572 what does me have anything to do with it when we are living in 2024 im talking about back the when they didn't have social media and they didn't know how to train or have good nutrition or have the numbers that we have today for genetic freaks to come out. I don't understand the point of your insult, if you wanna say I'm shit that's fine but what does that have to do with what I'm saying

Levan

he was nothing to prime levan, 0

Depends. What do you mean by natural hand control? If you mean brute cupping strength then absolutely, if you mean a combination of hand control and fluidity then I don't think so.

@@pedrobile1488 Well everybody today is about maxing out "armwrestling lifts" and getting bigger. Nobody comes close to his elegant level of hand control.

Yes Devon, Levan and Georgi

Delusional

John is the goat. But you couldn’t be more wrong. John’s peak is no where near 2nd in supers currently.

Agreed. These devon fanboys are delusional.

@@Yes_I_c4n It seems you aren't following any timeline nor considering situations. John has a 17-7 win ratio over ron. He's beaten lupkes in his early career, the times he lost he didn't really contest cuz he wanted to focus on his weight class. The point was comparing primes of both

🤡

I'm sorry, but you are delusional if you think that.

​@Pepe-pq3om Engin Terzi thinks that as well.. except Levan and perhaps Devon in supermatch formats.. tournaments is another story..you think Engin is delusional as well ?

I think he'd do well in the SHW division as well..if he did all that guys do today

Lol.. exactly..

I don’t know what that is.

@@ChrisDrummondAW thats music brother

@@ChrisDrummondAW 7empest is a song they released in 2019 on their latest album

Ok. I don’t listen to anything that new and don’t really want to.

@@ChrisDrummondAW never heard of someone who doesnt like music. I couldnt live without it

Prime john beats everyone except levan. This guy's analysis is extremely shallow imo. John beat cleve dean, prime richard lupkes and a lot of really strong big guys. Also there's no point comparing today's juiced up, eating stem cells for breakfast superheavies to natural old school john. If john was born in today's era, with today's facilities, he'd whoop everyone.

@@tomixparker3126 Lupkes has a winning record against John, and Lupkes never knew AW, he's the most basic puller ever who only ever lifted weights back then, gotta factor that in also

@@jax9574 That's not true, he had a losing record. John beat him at the most important tournaments too, like the World championships, and at the Over the top tournament where he won a semi truck.

@@Yes_I_c4n brother, 90kg brzenk defeated rime richard lupkes (140kg) in 1988.

​@@Yes_I_c4n The 2006 version of John toyed with Ron Bath.

he actually held a world record for strict arm curl (should still hold it, because he did it with a straight bar and the guy who "beat" him did it with an EZ bar). so, yes... world class strength, at one point.

In his prime yes, maybe levan who knows. Todays he still has the strength i would say. Just cant do the stuff he used 2

@@Juneof1944 Thats just bicep curl strength . I am asking like an overall armwrestling strength and where would he (prime denis) rank in the super heavyweight division as of now

Is? Or was? Either way, yes, Denis was as strong as people believed but Denis was never invincible and nobody should think that. He lost several rounds through his prime years. 4-2 against Michael in 2016 (easily could've been a draw or a 4-2 win for Michael depending on the fouls). Lost to Pushkar in 2014. Lost to Chaffee in 2013. Lost to Michael in 2011 and almost lost to Lupkes right before that. Lost to Arsen in the finals in 2012? A1. Yes, there are circumstances that affect each match but Denis was never dominant enough in the wrist to take advantage of the amazing body strength he possessed.

@@uchihaobito5071 Most the rest of his strengths were on par with his world class bicep strength. Yes, I gave a specific example, but, it was meant to represent a whole.

He lost to John after getting destroyed in a long battle with Denis the previous round. Travis at his best was one of the baddest dudes around and the WAL setup favored him. Dave always struggled with Michael because he doesn’t have the technical development to out-armwrestle Michael. That’s really all it is.

He never beat John at his best..you should watch Pulling John..2004 was not a good year for John...even 2005 sucked..check his record..he had been in the sport for over 20 yrs..had burned out and was considering retirement.. physically he was far from his best.. you can see the difference between John in 2004 and later when he bulked up.. And Voevoda trained like a maniac off the table to be able to beat John..something John never did.. they were kinda from different generations

@@karuonline3294 If Voevoda continued in the sport, he would've beat John in 2006 too though. So does it really matter?

@@crane7472 I don't think he would have beat John.. especially not in 2006. that version of John was a monster..now I wouldn't blame you for not giving much credence to my word but Engin was asked where 2006 John would rank today and he said 2nd behind Levan in tournaments and 3rd behind Levan and Devon in supermatches..you can disagree with that as well but it's hardly a foregone conclusion that Voevoda would have beat John again ..he beat Semerenko like it was a joke..ran through Ron Bath, Devon and beat Farid who was arguably no 2 in the world at the time..( Devon's word, not mine )..John won 3 open category titles at Zlotys battling roided monsters..the 2004 match seems to make people think Voevoda was somehow unbeatable but he wasn't

@@karuonline3294Maybe you're right, but I really think Voevoda would've been improving as well. Dude had crazy potential

@@crane7472 I don't disagree with that.. especially if we are talking about 2010 or beyond I think Voevoda would have beaten John..that run John had from 2006-2009 was despite the fact that he was well into his 40s and past his physical prime..his shoulder forced him to get surgery in 2011 and he was never the same after that.. there were no stem cells back then..but 2006 John really was amazing..watch Devon's review of John vs Farid for a glimpse of what I'm talking about.. dude could easily have top rolled Farid but went into a hook just to beat him at his own game .and that too in the finals..who does that ? Losing matches is something that happened to John from time to time throughout his career..but he usually figured guys out over the course of a few meetings..his record against Ron Bath is 15-7, 25-5 against Travis.. he's a winning record against most elite guys including Devon ( beat him twice in 2015 )..

I think if you put John as a young man in today’s time and let him live, he would do the same thing today that he did back then. He would probably even do it better and he would move the sport into the mainstream because he’s a superstar he’s just, the guy and that’s the way it is.

Exactly...a straight up comparison is like saying a man on a bike is faster than someone on foot..it makes no sense..give John the same incentives and advantages and he'll be a different monster..there was nothing he lacked to become an elite guy today..genetics, a diverse skillset, table IQ..

Nah. Devon just had a stronger arm.

I actually think he can come close when his outside chain catches up. Hard to compare tho, at 18 john was nr1 in the world , pro or amateur so that will never happen again

I doubt it. He has a great shot to be one of the all-time greats but you can only go so far without the kind of hand dominance John or others have which Rino just genetically doesn't possess.

No way, specially if you consider the the young top pullers of today are onto a lot o gear

@@Pepe-pq3om rino is natty

No The claim is 16 years undefeated

@@dodumichalcevski so not even a single super match loss in that 16 year streak ?

20 yrs..in his weight class

@@incontrol2280 I dont know the Details. But thats the claim i heard couple of times

I didn’t say prime John would beat prime Denis, I said prime John would beat current Denis.

Today John would lose but prime John slaps Tsonev.

They pulled a year ago and Denis couldn’t pin John without waiting to burn him out. He tried multiple times. He tried so hard that between rounds he was kneeling with his face in his chair and ice packs on his neck to cool him down. John used to be so much better, he would absolutely edge out today’s Denis. He’d take the wrist in the straps and disable Denis’s arm, not unlike the early days or even when Devon beat Denis.

John didn't always have trouble against Todd, only the first tournament they pulled and the last time they pulled last year. Every other time John won. Krasi never pulled John until after John had shoulder surgery so.... yeah.

@@ChrisDrummondAW Ok. This makes a difference. Still impressiv. Who else has such a great record aginst John hardly anyone. I think Richard Lupkes also has a quite good record against him though... Cheers bro

​@@GangdamStyle20that's more a matter of chance than anything else..the shoulder surgery screwed John up more than it helped..he started losing in his own weight class which didn't happen for a long time before that..he didn't regain much strength until around 2015 and the shoulder was still so bad he retired the same yr..so, I wouldn't put much stock in Krasi's record.. John's record against Ron Bath is 15-7 , something like 25-5 against Travis...and that's how it was against most elite guys.. John did have trouble with guys now and then, especially with those he didn't encounter frequently.. otherwise he'd figure guys out over a few matches and end up with a winning record.. Lupkes pursued things outside arm wrestling like Norton and Gary Goodridge and likely was on heavier stuff than John..

@@karuonline3294 There is truth in you comment for sure. The myth goes Krasi is natural. Nevertheless Krasi is a great puller, despite his recent losses imo...

Complete speculation about 2006 John sweeping the version of Devon that overwhelmed him in 2008.

You are literally lying lol Devon has REPEATEDLY SAID that he is the strongest he has ever been Also in coach ray podcast from like 5-6 months ago (since which he has progressed EVEN MORE WHICH IS CRAZY), he also said that he is a better technician now , and again MORE STRONGER THAN 2008 , the best he has ever been

@@9fallen9one9 Not by a big margin lol You really think he can be better than he was in his 30’s?

@@viktore69 yeah I do think that. You can check the numbers on his lifts that he has been doing for decades , HE IS STILL PROGRESSING IN THEM

@@9fallen9one9 I’m not denying that he is better than 2008. But I can’t see how he is several miles ahead of his early 30’s self.

So? Young Devon isn’t today’s Devon.

In 2015, John beat Devon in 3 of 4 rounds at WAL when John was 51 and Devon 40. I actually think that the fact that you have older guys pushing 60 like John and Toddzilla competing for world titles means that the competition is not better than it was in the past. Same thing with Devon, and Jerry pushing 50 and winning SHW belts. That is a sign that competition is not improving. Although AW is more popular in Europe, the American AW scene was stronger in the past.

@@ChrisDrummondAWbut the fact is prime John with no stem cells or other advances absolutely destroyed him. We can say maybe, or probably i dont care what i seen with my two eyes his prime john absolutely destroyed him

@@Joshua-ht7ll His point is that the version of Devon that John beat is not the best version of Devon. Devon today, as in March of 2024 would stomp any version of John because Devon is too strong in his lane.

no one argued that. DId you even watch the video? do you know what the word "today" means. We're comparing to TODAY's athletes, not yesterdays or 10 years ago.

Not prime Vitaly, he had a bad shoulder and definitely is still leveling up, but style matters. A beating B and B beating C doesn’t mean A beats C. Example: Devon, Genadi, and Ermes.

he was natty until he turned 40..TRT after that ..but nothing like what Levan and Devon have been doin

delusional

@@gigachad-rx3zvThat question is delusional for sure. And what? ;-)

Thats so dumb. We have never seen john at ermes weight and medicine dosage. If u said this to gasparini he would laugh in ur face

agree

Ermes struggled against a chaffee that is around 20-25% weaker than his prime self While john used to beat him

You dont understand Armwrestling

No..he never said that folks back in the day didn't know how to arm wrestle..in fact he's said the opposite.. watch the live with him and Ron Bath..they clearly said that the strength aspect due to rigorous off the table training is the only edge that guys have today..and that they're NOT better arm wrestlers in terms of skill or table IQ

Why ? What do you think John's missing? I am assuming that you translate John to the context of modern arm wrestling where guys work like maniacs off the table, pay a lot of attention to diet etc, and engage in very heavy usage of PEDs compared to John's heyday

@@karuonline3294 Because the level is different now.! Dennis was the best at one point in Supers now he’s lucky if he’s top 10.!

@@NewEraLandscaping724 Denis himself isn't what he used to be.. spending several years away from the sport after a serious health scare makes a world of difference..just look at how Voevoda did after years of absence against Tim Bresnan and then against John.. so, using him as a barometer doesn't make sense...as for the level being different, the level of what? it's definitely not skills or table IQ.. strength? yeah but what would keep John from getting stronger the way guys do today by following similar training methods off the table and heavy PED usage ? look at the transformation of Genadi in the last 10 yrs.. John had the right genetics, he mastered different styles at different stages of his career and his table IQ was as high as anyone's...

@@karuonline3294 Because back than the pinnacle was Tim Bresnan, Voevoda, Travis Etc, nowhere near where this sport is at today.! It’s not even close.! I know no one wants to admit it but John isn’t beating none of the super heavies today.!

@@NewEraLandscaping724 there's nothing to admit.. this isn't just a layman's opinion.. Engin himself says 2006 John would be highly ranked today..you just don't know enough about the sport. Btw, Tim Bresnan was never really the peak and Travis at his best would also do very well today

Correct He would be in the top 5 maybe even top 3

@@dodumichalcevski No chance, He wouldn’t beat Levan, Devon, Georgi, Alex, Genadi, Morozoz, laletin 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

@@NewEraLandscaping724 He would lose to Devon and Levan. But he could beat everybody else. To say anything else means you dont understand Armwrestling and you dont know what John used to be. John from 2006-2008 would Play with everybody in the 105 and 115 and would kill alot of monsters. To say he wouldnt have a chance is delusional beyond comprehension.

@@dodumichalcevski I most certainly do some John fans just don’t want to admit it lol.! The level is stupid high I love John but he’s not winning against these top 10 guys.! They are to big too strong, way more table IQ, PEDs etc.!

@@NewEraLandscaping724 You are delusional beyond comprehension 🎉 Nobody except maybe Devon has more Table I.Q then John. Also 2006-2008 John would DESTROOOOOOY Revaz and Jerry like nothing.

No 😂

😂😂😂😂 Delusional beyond comprehension

That's like saying Procopcuic or Mindaugus (i know i botched the spelling) aren't top #10.... well, of course not, when were talking overall, instead of the weight class they're actually in. John ain't a super heavy.... no one is shocked when someone can't beat someone with skill and strength who is a weight class or 2 above them.

@@Juneof1944 but John used to beat the superheavyweights of his time, and thats what the video is about, could he still do it now with his prime shape.

​@@leonardotheuseless4188 I'm more so replying to this guy specifically than I am to the video generally

He already beat cyplenkov , before his kidneys shut down and cyplenkov had 20kg muscle on him. Cyplenkov is ranked 5th today, with the same or worse shape than 2009. Stop bsing

John beat devon in the 90s