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True that, since I started programming my own drums I did my solo record very easily, that’s a life saver.

Shit I'm a drummer and I still program atm. They're good for writing but I wouldn't recommend for a final product.

@@TheWitness369 I agree with you they are a good writing tool, for the end result I always get a drummer to play my e-drums set to get at least the feel of the drummer playing, very happy with the results so far I'm getting with SD3, but of course on certain genres having an acoustic kit to mic up and record is still the best bet. Virtual instruments still remain the best way to write music and flash out ideas, I also program everything on my demos, it gets the musician's technique out of the way and I feel it challenges the musician to improve technically as well when it comes to actually recording the songs for the final product.

You hit it on the mark! I've done the same thing. Granted, I'm still learning and my productions need a lot of improvements, but being able to sit and write and record a whole song by yourself is priceless.

Ditto! People send me stems, and I’ll lay down the drums this way. If they’re happy with the track, then depending on the purpose of the recording, I will go and re-record on real acoustic drums in the studio.

This

What drum vst do u use if u don’t mind me asking ? I have an electronic kit as well and was looking for compatible plugin to record with

what drum vst do you use to do this? i'm new to programmed drums, so just curious

@@backbeatben You can use BFD3, sounds much better than Superior Drums. BFD is on sale now at $49,99

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@@DidierBampiliMusicProduction No...... You're just spamming...

there's no difference to know because musicans don't make 2 versions of the same song.

This is the case since well... a long time. It's been years since producers and bands are using triggers and stuffs like that to correct mistakes and / or avoid re-doing a studio session... or just because, well... they can. Anyone still discussing the value of virtual instruments or if you should use them (or not) in 2020 is more or less like saying that you have no idea how the music industry works in reality. The way you produce music does not matter, the creativity, the result... this is what matter. Also not everyone can afford a drummer :) Also also : anyone saying that they can hear the difference (when you have a midi that has been played by a real drummer) with a comparison support is funny. The real test would be to bounce 5 different tracks, 3 being VSTs, 2 being real drums with the same production. And asking a drummer which is which. I'm pretty sure that the good answers will be way lower than everyone thinks.

@@Henry0870 That's not what spamming means. You mean self-promoting

For me it comes down to using a grid. If you record to a click AND quantize you might as well only use triggers and samples. If you go through the effort of micing a kit the artist should consider recording W/O a click to maximize the qualities that only live drums provide.

LOL XD

As for the "we listen with our eyes": I don't entirely agree with that. I like the fact he said which recording was which (the acoustic drums VS the MIDI drums), as I am visually impaired. There are likely other visually impaired people who might watch this too, and they benefit from that dialog if you get what I mean. Your second statement, I absolutely agree with, 100 percent. I just had a sort of mini argument with another commenter on another video about MIDI drums VS real drums, and this person was talking pretty much as you described, as if MIDI drums are still artificial sounding even if the drum sounds were sampled from real acoustic drums being played in a real studio and so on. The guy was clearly underestimating the quality of drum samples especially the ones we've seen in recent years. It was a bit stupid if you ask me. I guess Some people cannot be convinced MIDI drums can sound realistic in any way; they're stubborn, they are the way they are, they're gonna believe what they're gonna believe and deliberately choose to not see the actual truth of things. They're gullible. They think that what they believe or read is absolutely indisputable truth and no argument of any kind will change their mind. It's disgusting to me :/

Thats not the point. The point is what you like better. i definitely prefer the real drum version.

Keyword there.... "Well" programmed drums.

@@luxuriousfir for sure, a lot of kids just slam everything to 127 and 100% quantization

Nice definition.

they will not in blind test

I've always found that to be a very poor argument. Honestly this is the only industry where people openly treat their customers/audience this way. "They won't know the difference so let's be lazy and feed them some garbage". Most won't consciously know about every detail of the mix either so should producers just speedrun that and release scratch mixes? I think you're really underestimating how a mix can change the experience for a listener even if they're not aware of it. Secondly, the programmed drum mix here sounded awful in comparison. Even a non musician would be able to tell that it's fake. There's absolutely no energy especially in the fast sections. And this is supposedly a demonstration of how good it is. Now there are pros to programmed drums. If you don't have access to real drums you can at least get started. In some genres, I think digital sounding, quantized drums can actually sound good. But it is NOT a substitute for real drums. I'd argue that the time and effort it would take to make samples sound as good as the real thing is better spent just recording real drums with a good drummer.

I think they DO sound better

It makes two of us

Digital always sounds like a demo.

As do I..but seeing as pro recordings now essentially use samples, the sound of the sampled midi kit, IS the sound of what people perceive as real drums now. I think more important is getting a real drummer to play the MIDI and then not time aligning or correcting it. If you can, record a real snare to mix in. It is ultimately the snare that always gives it away.

@@Polentaccio Agreed. But honestly the cymbals usually give it away for me.

The joy comes from imperfection. There's a reason people don't like autotune. :)

So did I 😁

Real hi hat and cymbals with electronic pads for shells is probably the best compromise for easy recording and mixing. Pads work great but I've never found edrums that has a nice hihat to play and cymbals are also a bit meh if you try to do anything beyond basic crashing

I can Copy/paste your words my friend. I have fun doing my own stuff, as I guess many people searching for this kind of content. Would like to have the digital production blueprint, for doing my own music and learning Jordan’s process to this. I would buy right away if Jordan was selling this, specially using the new Black Salt Audio (Escalator, Low Ctrl, Oxygen and Clipper), which I own all of them! Consider releasing it Jordan, I’m pretty sure there are lots of people out there, looking for this exact course! Cheers!!

I felt like the snare in the new one had much more compression or less dynamic range in general than the original song.

The new one is a lot wider mix overall with vocals and bass filling center. I think the original mix can feel more intimate because it's not so wide and the real kit sounds like this sort of one unified instrument, instead of individual drums popping up allover the mix. The original mix has that old school feel of a band playing the song together in one space

I think the new mix is better for sure, but I agree - if given the choice I’d always rather do real drums!

This, lots of bleed into OH and room mics made me like programmed drums.

it's also almost completely maxed out to 127, I've always been taught that 120-127 should be reserved for teh hardest hitting section and to back off for the rest of the track

yes, I think when programming MIDI drums you should do it with the mindset of an actual drummer (weather or not you play drums yourself). But if you want to program your MIDI drum parts by actually playing them in on an instrument like how an actual drummer would record his or her part in the studio, get a MIDI controller... seriously. MIDI controllers, like keyboards or electronic drums, are meant to be played like real instruments. You are effectively recording a live performance at that point, but with the added advantage of being able to edit individual notes and the spaces between them for timing and velocity corrections, as apposed to having to annoyingly re-record parts like you would with an audio recording. It's the difference between recording MIDI VS recording audio. I also agree about the velocity layer thing you mentioned. I like hearing "multisampled" drums, where a lower velocity level will actually trigger a sample of a drum being hit at a softer level (which would make a different sound than a harder hit), and a higher velocity level would trigger a sample of a drum being hit harder (which would make a different sound than if the drum was hit softer). In other words, what some people might not always notice is that with acoustic drums, hitting them softer or harder doesn't merely change the "volume", but it also changes the "tonality" if you no what I mean. Let's say you have a sample of a snare drum being hit rather hard. That's the only sample you have. Now try triggering that sample at different hardness levels on your MIDI controller and notice how it merely changes the volume of that sample; you should notice that the actual sound of the snare drum doesn't have much variation. It's "mechanical" or rather monotone sounding. But if you have multiple samples of that same snare drum being hit at different levels of hardness and softness and you trigger those samples with different velocity levels, it starts to sound much more interesting.

@@justinnaramor6050 Great points!

@@tylerbrittan593 Thanks. I think people should understand this stuff before claiming that sampled drums sound "unrealistic". They only sound "unrealistic" or "fake" if you just have a single sample (like the snare drum example I mentioned) being triggered at different volumes. I heard someone try to do a snare drum roll with a sample setup like that and it sounded a bit like a machine gun (in fact, it's actually been referred to as the "machine gun effect"). But then the person played the same snare drum roll with a multisampled snare drum, and wow, I could really hear the difference; much more realistic sounding. If I hadn't known that MIDI was being used I would've thought there was a real drummer playing a real snare drum.. So all these folks claiming sampled drums sound unrealistic can just cut out that bullshit :)))))))))))))))))

I think it was on when he showed it in the video, but everything was off when he bounced it to audio.

Because he brickwalled the hell out of his old one. Just look at the wave form. There is more distortion and compression in it though as a result. That's why he says the newer one sounds cleaner.

@@whiskerbiscuit6674 I heard a better top end on cymbals and guitars from the old one, just sounded a little more "live", and that matters.

Old one sounds very professional and fatter..new one not too heavy and sound like it has an imager on the bus

If he brickwalled the new mix like he did the old mix it'd sound the same.

I just heard the comparison and holly crap! The old mix has so much more body and depth. The new mix sounds fine, but it has a fizziness in the high mids that is a tad annoying in comparison with the old one.

The new mix is also super wide which makes it feel super modern but also hollow

Look up Kingdoms - Daughters of Atlas EP

Glenn Fricker's passion for only using actual drums totally alienates people who literally cannot afford to record actual drums or are learning. The man's arrogance pushed me away from his videos.

It’s a module inside my full program!

@@hardcoremusicstudio Thanks so much! I have been thinking about enrolling for ages... So, I think it's time :D

Riding it like a vocal

This. The cymbals gave it away. And until there is a way to emulate a wobbeling cymbal which you slightly different every time, they will always sound artificial.

You said everything

Lol did you feel smart typing all that? You just wanted to hear yourself talk huh? Anyone knows all that stuff you just said, it's pretty basic stuff, like drum programming 101 stuff I'd say.

@@GreatBurningNullifier Lol did you feel smart typing all that? You just wanted to hear yourself talk huh? Everybody think you're an ass hat, it's pretty basic stuff, like internet loser 101 stuff I'd say.

@@GreatBurningNullifier Congrats! You got me! Want a medal?