Protestant Gospel Vs. The Catholic Gospel

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The Catholic Skeptic with Hugh J Quinn

The Catholic Skeptic with Hugh J Quinn

5 ай бұрын

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@kofiadjei-frimpong9279
@kofiadjei-frimpong9279 5 ай бұрын
You are doing great job. God bless you and your family.
@ednewcomer
@ednewcomer 5 ай бұрын
The lives of the saints show how to live. The martyrs gave witness to the Gospel.
@vinb2707
@vinb2707 5 ай бұрын
I loved the way that you said that as a Catholic you don’t have to explain away verses in the Bible. So absolutely true. I get so frustrated in the Bible study that I attend when the Evangelicals who attend continuously point out scripture verses to prove the Gospel as they see it. My response is to point another scripture verse that would seemingly say something different. They then respond, “well, to understand your verse you must first understand the one that I first pointed out”. And around and around the scriptural carousel we go. As Catholics, we take the whole Bible in context. The Church does not live off of verses. To understand Paul you must also understand Abraham, Moses, John, Peter and of course The Lord himself.
@catholicskeptic
@catholicskeptic 5 ай бұрын
@ vinb2707 That's why "sola scriptura " can never work. The Bible does not contain sufficient information or details. It's why Jesus established the Church. Thanks for your comment, excellently stated. God Bless.
@vinb2707
@vinb2707 5 ай бұрын
@@catholicskepticGod bless you and your family!
@peterzinya1
@peterzinya1 5 ай бұрын
@@catholicskeptic "That's why "sola scriptura " can never work." Your catholic contempt for the bible is showing.
@catholicskeptic
@catholicskeptic 5 ай бұрын
@@peterzinya1 Listen dude, I love the Word of God, your ungrateful, contemptible attitude toward the Church that gave you the Bible; who's leaders selected, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, which documents should make up the 27 books of the New Testament, and rejected the others. And then choose to live in the Protestant fantasy that the New Testament magically fell from the sky ( some 3 centuries after the time of Christ ). The fantasy that a few rebels of the 16th century, who broke from that Church and made up their own Churches ( 35000 + churches) are somehow the ones who got right... 🤔. 🤪😂😱🤣🤣😂
@catholicskeptic
@catholicskeptic 5 ай бұрын
@@vinb2707 Thanks, and God bless you and your's as well. 🙏
@MB-zn9vg
@MB-zn9vg 5 ай бұрын
Love your videos. Thank you so much. I hope you have a blessed Lent season
@catholicskeptic
@catholicskeptic 5 ай бұрын
@MB-zn9vg Thanks, all the Glory to God. You also have a very blessed Lent season.
@ednewcomer
@ednewcomer 5 ай бұрын
Start you day off by offering to Jesus all your actions, joys, and sufferings of that day in union with the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass throughout the world for the glory of God. This short, simple prayer has made a big difference in my life. Dedicate your day to God.
@catholicskeptic
@catholicskeptic 5 ай бұрын
@ednewcomer Amen 🙏.
@timboslice980
@timboslice980 5 ай бұрын
To understand the protestant gospel first you must accept 3 contradictions. First, only faith saves but if you dont have works and love then your faith is useless. Its kind of like saying it takes 3 ingredients to make a soup but only one of them makes it a soup. Jesus is the only mediator between god and man vs go forth and make disciples of all nations. They cant have it both ways like catholics can otherwise they have to drop the one mediator argument against us. Third, they accept TONS of traditions! Theres nowhere in the bible does it say 10 commandments. The section that has them is traditionally called the decalogue because traditionally the jews accepted these as 10 specific laws. The 10 commandments IS a sacred oral tradition! Protestants just dont think about these things. Their pastors are clueless and if youre a convert like me, you had to read certain passages over and over until either you had to drop an essential belief and accept what the bible says or convince yourself its saying something different that must line up with your theology somehow. We are limited and scripture is not. How could anyone hope to fully understand scripture apart from the church that produced it? Private interpretation is almost an insult to scripture i feel.
@geoffjs
@geoffjs 5 ай бұрын
Protestantism is heretical
@marysslave913
@marysslave913 4 ай бұрын
Anyone who privately interprets Scripture. Commits abuse of Scripture
@marysslave913
@marysslave913 3 ай бұрын
@@_ROMANS_116 that's what the father's of the Church say in there writings st Irenaus of Lyons.
@marysslave913
@marysslave913 3 ай бұрын
@@_ROMANS_116 from the writing s of Irenaus of Lyons
@marysslave913
@marysslave913 3 ай бұрын
@@_ROMANS_116 you tube has the writings of the early church fathers St Irenaus of Lyons against heretics is on here
@jamestrotter3162
@jamestrotter3162 5 ай бұрын
God bless you brother. That's good preaching!
@catholicskeptic
@catholicskeptic 5 ай бұрын
@jamestrotter3162 Thanks, all the Glory to God.
@fantasia55
@fantasia55 5 ай бұрын
I see a new Hugh video - must watch!
@paul_321
@paul_321 5 ай бұрын
Thought the same thing 😁
@mikelopez8564
@mikelopez8564 5 ай бұрын
Thank you, Hugh; good post! How many times have I read in comments here that “Peter didn’t know the gospel”? I hope this episode helped to disabuse a few from that belief.
@Harbinger290
@Harbinger290 5 ай бұрын
To clarify the point about Peter not preaching Paul's Gospel in Acts 2, let me explain further: Peter preached the Gospel that was entrusted to him (Acts 2), while Paul, who came later, received his Gospel directly from Jesus through revelation, as mentioned in Galatians 1:11-12. Later on, Paul did share what he had received with Peter, and together they preached the Gospel that Jesus had given to Paul, as stated in Galatians 1:11-12. Peter was sent only to the Jews, while Paul carried the gospel into all the world. Paul was designated as the apostle to the Gentiles, and his purpose was to bring the Gentiles into covenant through his assigned gospel and what he termed the dispensation of grace, not law. Ephesians 3:4 (KJV): "Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my (Paul’s) knowledge in the mystery of Christ." Ephesians 3:6 (KJV): "That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by THE GOSPEL." Key phrase: gentiles are made partakers in Christ by the GOSPEL (given to Paul).
@homeofthebrave6369
@homeofthebrave6369 5 ай бұрын
Outstanding talk. Subscribed🙏
@catholicskeptic
@catholicskeptic 5 ай бұрын
@homeofthebrave6369 Thanks so much, all the Glory to God.
@matthewsymonds7772
@matthewsymonds7772 5 ай бұрын
Great video Hugh, Glory to God!!
@catholicskeptic
@catholicskeptic 5 ай бұрын
@matthewsymonds7772 Thanks brother, pray for me. God Bless.
@matthewsymonds7772
@matthewsymonds7772 5 ай бұрын
@@catholicskeptic will do brother
@johnlong8037
@johnlong8037 5 ай бұрын
EXCELLENT TITLE FOR VIDEO I JUST HAD TO LISTEN...YOU HIT RIGHT ON THE HEAD...YOUR A GOOD TEACHER SIR...I LIKE YOUR STYLE...THANK YOU.
@martinmartin1363
@martinmartin1363 5 ай бұрын
The best a Protestant can do is disagree with another Protestant or Catholic, because if you have faith in Jesus you can pick up the bible and interpret it as you will be guided by the Holy Spirit from error by their own authority because every Protestant is his own church pope and counsel and he relies on private interpretation but where did this authority and permission come from,Calvin or Luther, or Wesley etc . The best a Catholic can do is quote the magisterium the catechism and the dogmas and doctrines,when Jesus made Peter the head of the Catholic Church, two thousand years ago,you are Peter and on this rock I will build my church, and Jesus spoke Aramaic and a rock is a rock and not Greek petros which is pebble which is a female word and Simon was definitely male and therefore Peter a male verb and Jesus would have understood male and female verbs 🙂👍
@catholicskeptic
@catholicskeptic 5 ай бұрын
@martinmartin1363 Excellent points. 👍
@0KXNE
@0KXNE 5 ай бұрын
i love the book of wisdom, it’s really really good
@geoffjs
@geoffjs 5 ай бұрын
One of the books that Luther removed, go figure!
@apostolicapologetics4829
@apostolicapologetics4829 5 ай бұрын
The catholic gospel is much more beautiful, amazing, and sanctifying. Christ became incarnate to make us adoptive children of God. Adopted into a family, an ontological moral change done to us by the Holy Spirit not a legal fiction. Saved to adopted child of God, saved from sin, saved to eternal life. Salvation is both an event and an ongoing reality. Both the event and the ongoing reality involve sanctification and justification. I wonder what a protestant would find wrong with my articulation of salvation? What I am driving at I guess, is that sanctification is not optional, it is necessary for glorification, wouldn't they agree?
@apostolicapologetics4829
@apostolicapologetics4829 5 ай бұрын
I think the gospel paradigm that one adopts also comes down to failing to make proper distinctions between redemption and salvation and the different types of grace, as well as primary and secondary causality. If I ever met a protestant like Ray Comfort these are the distinctions I would want to start with him.
@silveriorebelo2920
@silveriorebelo2920 5 ай бұрын
of course not, protestants are used to think according to anti-catholic prejudice, and to replace thinking with propaganda - whatever the Scripture says against their their silly theories, they cannot accept it because that would mean agreeing with Catholics - protestant theologians risk going to hell because they willingly refuse to see - and they feel the imperative need to fight against the Church, as the devil does
@Harbinger290
@Harbinger290 5 ай бұрын
I would be interested to get your thoughts on a post I made earlier. If you get board circle back and just look for “harbinger” in the comments. Should be easy to find. God Bless!
@catholicskeptic
@catholicskeptic 5 ай бұрын
@@Harbinger290 I will give you a response, for sure. Thanks for your detailed comment.
@catholicskeptic
@catholicskeptic 5 ай бұрын
@apostoliccapologetics4829 Thanks for that insightful, excellent comment. God Bless you.
@martinmartin1363
@martinmartin1363 5 ай бұрын
The Protestant has a problem with scripture alone, how do they know for certain that the gospels were written by mark, Matthew Luke and John, none say they that they wrote them unlike the epistles of St. Paul, they all have titles on the original documents with Matthew mark Luke and John, but who gives the authority to say without doubt they wrote them and they are inspired by the Holy Spirit and it has to be the disciples and the church fathers of the Catholic and apostolic church, and so if Protestants deny the authority of the Catholic Church and the authority that decreed that the gospels were by the authors they have to deny that the gospels are of the Holy Spirit.
@mikekukovec4386
@mikekukovec4386 5 ай бұрын
Hey, Protestant here. I greatly appreciate the respectfulness you conveyed in your video. Just a couple thoughts I wanted to share, thanks for posting this. 2:03 the 35,000 Protestant denominations number is inaccurate in this context and not at all conservative. The same metric that gets you to that number gets you to several hundred different Roman Catholic denominations which would probably be offensive to a Roman Catholic. There's lots of resources online "debunking" this number, please don't use it in this context. 7:14 Sola Scriptura does not mean that scripture is the "sole rule of authority" as you said, it's the belief that scripture is the only infallible rule of authority, emphasis on infallible. My Protestant church absolutely has authority over me, I just recognize that my senior pastor can make mistakes when he teaches me about faith and morals. 20:23 I believe in salvation by faith alone, and have no trouble reading James 2. This is talking about the kind of faith a person has, James 2:19 even talks about demons with faith. But of course that kind of faith cannot save you as the chapter points out. James 2:24 should not be read out of context as some kind of silver bullet to prove the doctrine of faith alone wrong.
@yalechuk6714
@yalechuk6714 5 ай бұрын
Name the Catholic denominations?
@mikekukovec4386
@mikekukovec4386 5 ай бұрын
@@yalechuk6714 that's the point, there's obviously only one Roman Catholic "denomination", just like there's obviously not 35,000 different Protestant denominations. Those numbers are bogus.
@yalechuk6714
@yalechuk6714 5 ай бұрын
@mikekukovec4386 I'm interested in the Catholic denominations actually
@cocoalovethax
@cocoalovethax 5 ай бұрын
I just came across a youtube video in my recommendations today from a channel called "Stephen C ministries" or something like that, that had 2000 subscribers. Protestants are constantly starting their own churches if they find something they disagree with. I'm sure they want to serve God, but I'm sure there is a profit motive as well. And there's thousands upon thousands of these people out there who started their own churches.
@mariace4848
@mariace4848 5 ай бұрын
In Mathew, somewhere between 5 -7 Jesus talks about cutting off a hand and plucking out an eye. How do we know that should not be taken literally?
@DavidTheZealot
@DavidTheZealot 5 ай бұрын
If you're sin is that burdensome to overcome perhaps literally it applies. It is better to pluck your eye out if you can not just seem to resist lusting
@Malygosblues
@Malygosblues 5 ай бұрын
​@@DavidTheZealotNo. Do not literally self mutilate, that's a form of partial suicide. Pluck away the thing in in your life causing you to sin even if it's as dear to you as a hand or an eye.
@ralf547
@ralf547 5 ай бұрын
Will becoming blind or lame or disfigured cure your sinful nature? Jesus speaks of the faith of children and consequences for endangering that faith. The punishment for doing so is horrible. Jesus said He would not remove any of the commands we receive. He would fulfill the law, on our behalf. He ends this chapter, Matt 18 by explaining that the good shepherd, Himself, goes out in search of the lost sheep. His desire is that not a single one be lost. We need to be found because we can't find our way home. We can't fix our sinful natures. Jesus must do it.
@GarthDomokos
@GarthDomokos 5 ай бұрын
Bible alone? The more I have meditated on it, is that not a man made tradition? Our bibles were compiled by men, through sources that we have no idea of their origins, written in a language that was not remotely close to our English language, compiled by men who are mortal. All your points you present are spot on, not just in a biblical sense, but on a common sense level as well.
@rhwinner
@rhwinner 5 ай бұрын
Long time no see, Hugh! 😮
@atrifle8364
@atrifle8364 5 ай бұрын
Testing my comments. :)
@Annette_Mairi
@Annette_Mairi 4 ай бұрын
Hi Hugh…I have had my Protestant friend watching your videos and all was good until she mentioned the “creepy” skull 💀 on your shelf. I tend to agree with the feeling it invokes and wonder if you might clarify? I otherwise enjoy your commentary and appreciate your time in making the videos. Thank you!
@mybudeh
@mybudeh 3 ай бұрын
There are figurines of pirates to the right and left of the skull. They appear to be from Pirates of the Caribbean
@javierarzaga3870
@javierarzaga3870 5 ай бұрын
I've been Catholic all my life, but I've been invited to other Christian churches. Most of them are focused on bad mouthing the Catholic church. Not all, but what i witnessed in these churches is that it's all about intertaiment. With music and such, which is nice, but i don't see anything biblical about it. I hear too much misunderstanding of the scriptures, some downright heretical. I tried to be open-minded, but i just can't understand their theology, which is minute. We Catholics go to church for one thing only. To warship God and to partake in the banquet of the Lamb who takes away the sins of the world, happy are those that are present. God bless.
@geoffjs
@geoffjs 5 ай бұрын
Protestantism doesn’t generally include proper sacrificial worship as instructed by Jesus Jn 51-58, so no real presence, hence not church, more like synagogue with prayer and teaching
@catholicskeptic
@catholicskeptic 5 ай бұрын
Sadly I lived in that messed up Protestant world for so long. That God He rescued me from the madness, and brought me home to His Holy Church. Thanks for the comment and excellent observations, God Bless. 🙏
@catholicskeptic
@catholicskeptic 5 ай бұрын
@javierarzaga3870 Sadly I lived in that Protestant madness for a long time. Thank God He brought me home to Rome. Thanks for the comment and excellent observation. God Bless. 🙏
@paulsmallwood1484
@paulsmallwood1484 5 ай бұрын
@@geoffjs You could not be more ignorant of the facts. You attended Evangelical churches. You did not attend churches which are part of the historic Protestant tradition (Lutheran, Anglican, Reformed). They most certainly do believe in the real presence and they practice liturgical worship. They subscribe to the great ecumenical creeds. Roman Catholic apologists want everyone to falsely believe that the madness you see in nondenominational Evangelical circles represents historic Protestantism. It doesn’t.
@geoffjs
@geoffjs 5 ай бұрын
@@paulsmallwood1484I take your point about Lutheran, Anglican and Reformed denominations about sacrifice. However, I did qualify my point by saying “generally” ie not all. However, the 3 denominations that you mention do not have the real presence in the Eucharist because their priests are not validly ordained ie not in the order of succession
@PInk77W1
@PInk77W1 5 ай бұрын
St Anne Line • pray for us
@macbride33
@macbride33 2 ай бұрын
‭Romans 1:16 ESV‬ For I am not ashamed of the "gospel", for it is the power of God for salvation to EVERYONE who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
@N1IA-4
@N1IA-4 4 ай бұрын
Prots love to use the term "the Gospel" and just assume their understanding is the correct one. In discussion with Catholics, they employ it as a kudgel.
@paulrodgers252
@paulrodgers252 5 ай бұрын
I am both: my Mother was Roman Catholic and my Father was Protestant; thru Roman Catholic I learn the 3 in 1 (Father Son Holy Spirit); thru Protestant I have learn the 3 in 1 (Cross Holy Spirit Cross); as a born military military: protect, defend, support and War is in my DNA; Keep God North, Beast Left, your family Right, Hell South: you shall be fine and things will look up;
@dashriprock5720
@dashriprock5720 5 ай бұрын
Why does the Catholic church not give wine with the eucharist? someone once told me it's assumed the Blood is in the Flesh. So by that logic we shouldn't eat any meat because blood is in the flesh and we are not consume blood. My understanding is the Byzantine Rite and Eastern Orthodox still give the Body and Blood at communion.
@geoffjs
@geoffjs 5 ай бұрын
Increasingly, Catholic parishes have offered wine in recent decades but has not been considered to be compulsory as you state, blood is in the flesh
@catholicskeptic
@catholicskeptic 5 ай бұрын
@dashriprock5720 Actually receiving from the cup is now often done at Mass. But the Catholic doctrine is that both the bread and the wine become the Body and Blood of Christ at the consecration during Mass. And both species, the bread and the wine, both are the Body and the Blood. Thus when a Catholic receives the bread, they are receiving both the Body and the Blood, or if they just receive the wine they are receiving both the Body and the Blood. Christ made it clear we are to eat His Body and drink His Blood. ( see John 6). I have a friend whose daughter had to remain gluten free, so she would partake only from the cup, and she was receiving both. The practice of taking from the cup diminished after the whole 2020 mess, and concerns about so many drinking from the same cup.
@Davcramer
@Davcramer 5 ай бұрын
Except for during Covid my church has always offered the wine, but the majority of the parish only take the bread. Christ is in the bread AND the wine, and by taking both you're not receiving MORE Jesus. There is only one Jesus, in the bread, in the wine, or in both. This is my best guess for why many Catholics don't take the wine. We believe in the Real Presence of the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ in the bread and wine. I serve as an EMHC (Extraordinary Minister of the Holy Communion) in my parish. If I or the person I am distributing the unleavened bread (wafer) drops it (Jesus), I pick him up and consume him. If we spill the wine we take a cloth and clean him up, and there is a lot of guilt in NOT being able to consume him. If the church policy were, should we spill the wine, for us to get down on our hands and knees and lick it up, I would do so, in the presence of the congregation. It can be a bit stressful to distribute or to receive the blood of Christ, and I think many (most?) Catholics don't want to take the chance of spilling Christ.
@catholicskeptic
@catholicskeptic 5 ай бұрын
@@Davcramer Good guess, as yes, the Body and Blood are fully present under both species , thus to partake of either is to partake of the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ, wholly present in each. God Bless.
@paulsmallwood1484
@paulsmallwood1484 5 ай бұрын
Protestant response: From the London Baptist Confession of 1689 (Theological formulary) on the subject of adoption: “God has granted that all those who are justified would receive the grace of adoption, in and for the sake of his only Son Jesus Christ. By this they are counted among the children of God and enjoy the freedom and privileges of that relationship. They inherit his name, receive the spirit of adoption, have access to the throne of grace with boldness, and are enabled to cry “Abba, Father!” They are given compassion, protected, provided for, and chastened by him as a father. Yet they are never cast off but are sealed for the day of redemption and inherit the promises as heirs of everlasting salvation.”
@PatrickSteil
@PatrickSteil 5 ай бұрын
Does this in some way disagree with what this video is saying about Catholic teaching? It seems to me that that statement is about right. Not sure if the rest of the confession goes on to then claim we should or shouldn't be concerned with allowing Jesus to save us from our Sin, not just "of" our Sin.
@paulsmallwood1484
@paulsmallwood1484 5 ай бұрын
@@PatrickSteil It disagrees with how the so called “Protestant” position is presented in this video. Contrary to what was stated in the video, the Protestant traditions has written volumes on the doctrine of adoption and the necessity of pursuing holiness. It’s a Christian confession so yes it speaks a great deal on the forgiveness of sins.
@PatrickSteil
@PatrickSteil 5 ай бұрын
@@paulsmallwood1484 Well, don't you see that one of the problems is that there is no one "protestant" view, but 10's or 100's or 1000's? How does that bring someone to the Truth of Jesus? Which truth? The question is - can you separate Faith and Works - how would a new Christian actually DO this in real life?
@paulsmallwood1484
@paulsmallwood1484 5 ай бұрын
@@PatrickSteil No I don’t see that at all. Please cite examples where Protestants disagree over the doctrine of adoption. If you are going to try and discredit Protestantism with this old canard, then you have to explain why Roman Catholics express so much disagreement over doctrine. They can’t even agree if Pope Francis is a legitimate Pope and I won’t even get into the division created by Pope Francis’ approval of blessing individuals who just happen to be in a same sex relationship. Now they are arguing over whether or not hell is empty or whether or not it should be empty.
@paulsmallwood1484
@paulsmallwood1484 5 ай бұрын
@@PatrickSteil No I don’t see. Please provide examples using historic Protestant theological formularies of how Protestants disagree over the doctrine of adoption. Please provide examples using historic Protestant theological formularies of how Protestants disagree over the person of Christ and his sacrificial death on the cross to provide atonement for our sins. You are trying to discredit me using an old anti-Protestant canard that is patently false. If you are going to throw that at me, then explain why church councils and Popes contradict each other. You then need to explain the differences over doctrine that exist in the Roman Catholic camp. Your tradition can’t even agree if Pope Francis is a legitimate Pope. Many think he is a false Pope. Pope Francis says that a sincere atheist can be saved as well as sincere Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists. This has caused all kinds of internal strife. His comments regarding the blessing of individuals who happen to be in same sex relationships has caused all kinds of internal strife and division. His recent comments on hell did the same thing. Roman Catholics argue with each other of the ordination of women. At least 40% percent of American Roman Catholics think the Eucharist is just a symbol. Please spare me the mischaracterizations of Protestantism. Historic Protestantism has never separated faith from works. True saving faith will always produce good works. That is about about as closely linked together as you can get. Please provide examples of historic Protestant theological formularies that disagree on the relationship between faith and works.
@Harbinger290
@Harbinger290 5 ай бұрын
Wow! You touched on the main issue here! Great job! As I listened to you, I was reminded of the words of Jesus in Luke 13:24, Matthew 7:13-14, and Matthew 7:21-23 where Jesus makes it abundantly clear that most people "striving" to enter into heaven will ultimately hear the words, "Depart from me, I never knew you." Why? Because they followed a false GOSPEL or path to salvation! I want to emphasize, out of care for everyone's soul who reads this, that regardless of your denominational preference, Jesus is talking to people just like you and I who desire to be with Him forever, not to those who reject Him. Furthermore, the individuals in Matthew 7:21-23 were passionate about the Lord, had faith, and performed remarkable works. However, despite their devotion, they did not fulfill the Father's will (see verse 21). The point Jesus highlights over and over to the people of Israel is that how we "seek" salvation will ultimately determine our "eternal destination." Again, Luke 13:24 is clear: MOST WHO SEEK WILL NOT FIND! This is not merely a matter of Protestant versus Catholic beliefs; it is a matter of salvation for all humanity. In other words, many individuals attending church and serving God will indeed spend an eternity in hell. To clarify further, Romans 10:2 implies that a person can spend a lifetime zealously seeking God and salvation, yet miss it by a mile because they did it without proper knowledge! In other words, MANY OR MOST who strive for salvation have followed a false GOSPEL. Now, going back to Matthew 7:21-23, what critical mistake did the "Lord, Lord" crowd make? It is important to keep in mind that they clearly had faith and performed MANY wonderful works. I would very much like to hear your thoughts as we are all subject to being of the "MANY" who are misguided!
@paulsmallwood1484
@paulsmallwood1484 5 ай бұрын
Protestant response. To Harbinger: I find this interesting because Bishop Robert Barron believes that a sincere atheist who strives to be a good person can receive salvation. The same applies to a sincere Muslim, Buddhist and Hindu. Pope Francis says Christians and Muslims worship the same God. Will an atheist on judgement hear the words: “depart from me I never knew you” or not? Will they be part of the many who as you say embraced a false gospel or not? I find Bishop Barron’s comments troubling. How about you?
@Harbinger290
@Harbinger290 5 ай бұрын
@@paulsmallwood1484 Thank you for asking this question, and I appreciate your concern. It is indeed a troubling issue. Just as a false gospel cannot bring salvation, a false Muslim Jesus cannot save us either. Salvation is both simple enough for a child to understand, yet difficult enough that even the most knowledgeable and devout individuals struggle to find the path. In Luke 13:24, it is explained that many earnestly seek salvation through the right door but fail to find it. According to Jesus in Matthew 7:21, salvation lies in doing the “will of the Father”. So, what precisely is the Father's will for salvation? Unfortunately, the good Bishop seems to lack an understanding of the answer. The good Bishop's misunderstanding stems from the difference between how God perceives righteousness and how humans perceive goodness. Jesus addresses this in Matthew 21:31 and Luke 18:9-14, where he declares that even prostitutes and tax collectors will enter heaven ahead of those who strive for righteousness. This paradox challenges our preconceived notions and reminds us that true goodness or righteousness is not achieved in the way the Bishop believes. Those who fail to grasp this paradox likely fall into the category mentioned in Luke 13:24, where Jesus warns of the many who strive but ultimately miss the mark. In conclusion, I would like to emphasize that there are no inherently good individuals. None, absolutely none!
@paulsmallwood1484
@paulsmallwood1484 5 ай бұрын
@@Harbinger290 What do you mean a “false Muslim”. Neither Bishop Barron or Pope Francis used that qualifier. I am sorry but man in his fallen nature is not seeking the right door. Fallen man is at emnity with God. Anyone in a false religion is an unregenerate and is under God’s judgement. If God in his mercy brings that person, in a false and damnable religion, to true faith in Christ and spiritual rebirth, they will leave their false religion and will have found the right door and praise God for it. Being a “true” as opposed to a “false” adherent of a false religion (like the Muslims) will not help you on judgement day. The Gospel is not “if you are sincere enough in Your false religion, you can be saved”. A sincere Muslim is every bit as much under God’s judgement as a false one. Pope Francis and a Bishop Barron are contradicting 2.000 years of church teaching on this subject and are contradicting church councils and previous Popes. So much for consistency.
@paulsmallwood1484
@paulsmallwood1484 5 ай бұрын
@@Harbinger290 What do you mean a “false Muslim”. Neither Bishop Barron or Pope Francis used that qualifier. I am sorry but man in his fallen nature is not seeking the right door. Fallen man is at emnity with God. Anyone in a false religion is an unregenerate and is under God’s judgement. If God in his mercy brings that person, in a false and damnable religion, to true faith in Christ and spiritual rebirth, they will leave their false religion and will have found the right door and praise God for it. Being a “true” as opposed to a “false” adherent of a false religion (like the Muslims) will not help you in judgement day. The Gospel is not “if you are sincere enough in Your false religion, you can be saved”. A sincere Muslim is every bit as much under God’s judgement as a false Muslim. Pope Francis and Bishop Barron are contradicting 2.000 years of church teaching on this subject and are contradicting church councils and previous Popes. So much for consistency.
@Harbinger290
@Harbinger290 5 ай бұрын
I emphasized that a false Jesus is incapable of providing salvation. Muslims, unfortunately, adhere to a false gospel and a distorted interpretation of Jesus. I am uncertain about the confusion surrounding my stance. In regards to humanity's fallen state, there are numerous individuals who profess belief in the Jesus depicted in the Bible, yet they mistakenly attempt to attain salvation by adhering to a false gospel. The crux of my argument is that it is possible to have faith in the biblical Jesus and ardently seek Him, yet miss salvation through Him by not following the Father’s will. This aligns with the group of individuals referred to in Luke 13:24. It is important to note that Jesus is not addressing Muslims in the Gospel books. Instead, He is addressing the lost sheep of Israel, which encompasses those who reject Him as well as those who genuinely desire to find Him. Jesus is highlighting the fact that a significant majority of those actively seeking Him will not succeed in their quest. This follows that the majority of Christians today will also fail to find the strait gate by following the wrong path. Note: you can have the right Jesus and still go to hell by not seeking Him according to knowledge. This is Paul’s point in Romans 10:2 - Romans 10:2 (KJV) For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. Paul addresses those who believe in Jesus yet seek Him wrongly in the book of John and Galatians. These people below believed but as as Paul states in 1 Cor 15:1-4, some believe in vain - John 2:23-24 (KJV) 23 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast [day], many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. 24 But 👉Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all [men]. You can also believe in Jesus and follow an accursed gospel that results in a curse - Galatians 1:8-9 (KJV) 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
@ralf547
@ralf547 5 ай бұрын
The Catholic gospel includes belief that Jesus lived a perfect life in our place and on our behalf because we all fail to achieve perfection and so we are not qualified to be in God's presence for all eternity. Catholics believe that Jesus lovingly took our place and suffered the punishment we all justly deserve for our disobedience of God. By so doing, the punishment you and I deserve has been suffered to the satisfaction of the Triune God. St. Paul, inspired by the Holy Spirit, wrote the following, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;". I think, and hopefully am correct in believing that Catholics agree that no one is saved from damnation unless they correctly believe in the Triune God and place their faith in Jesus as the only one who has achieved forgiveness of their sins. This is true of for every Christian. No one is a Christian or saved who does not correctly believe Who God is, Who Jesus is, and that there is no other way to the Father and eternity in the presence of God other than through Jesus. But the Catholic gospel adds onto what God's Word says. Now, I want to be told if I am misrepresenting Catholicism regarding salvation. I understand Catholicism believes that a person will go to heaven if they are absolved of all their mortal sins. It may require a nearly eternal stay in Purgatory first, due to venial sins that weren't absolved. A Catholic Priest, and only a properly ordained Catholic priest, is required for sins to be absolved. The priest's ordination and authority to absolve a sinner is based on Christ's giving Peter the "Keys", with that authority passed down through an uninterrupted chain of ordained bishops (successors of the Apostles). Therefore, only the Catholic Church can forgive a sinner and make her/him eligible for heaven. Which is why denying the authority of the Catholic Church is damning. So, fidelity to the Pope and to the Catholic and everything the Church says must be believed and obeyed is an essential part of the Catholic gospel. It is not the same as the Protestant gospel.
@geoffjs
@geoffjs 3 ай бұрын
The only differences between the Catholic & other bibles are 1) the Catholic bible has 73 books v 66 of the Protestant bible and interpretation of the bible. Sola Scriptura is unbiblical and heretical as the bible can’t interpret itself & the heresy of personal interpretation has resulted in the confusion, division & scandal of 000’s of sects which is not of Jesus who willed unity Jn 17 11-23
@Yaas_ok123
@Yaas_ok123 5 ай бұрын
Catholic and reformed doctrine has been changed. Augustine was 10 years in pagan heresies and preached against them after converted. But year 412 he started take those same ideas to church. Later reformers adapted those errors, because thought they were original doctrine. It has been proven. See interviews Soteriology101 Ali Bonner and Ken Wilson's book The foundation of augustinuan- calvinism. You won't, but prove is clear.
@jeffkardosjr.3825
@jeffkardosjr.3825 5 ай бұрын
The Gospel is the Gospel, regardless of Catholic or Protestant.
@geoffjs
@geoffjs 5 ай бұрын
For starters, one has 73 books, the other 66 after Luther removed 7 books without authority Deut 4:2. It’s all about authority and interpretation. Compare One True Church of Jesus with authority Matt 16 18-19 and the scandal of man made Protestantism with 000’s of sects that don’t have sacrificial worship which Jesus commanded Jn 6 51-58. No proper worship, no church. Jesus willed unity Jn 17:21
@jeffkardosjr.3825
@jeffkardosjr.3825 5 ай бұрын
@@geoffjs The Gospel is not 73 or 66 books.
@geoffjs
@geoffjs 5 ай бұрын
@@jeffkardosjr.3825apologies, i was thinking about the number of books in the bible
@PatrickSteil
@PatrickSteil 5 ай бұрын
@@jeffkardosjr.3825 "The Gospel is not 73 or 66 books." - it absolutely is... to understand the fullness of the deposit of Faith is to recognize all of the Word of the Lord. By the rationale you present, what if some preacher came up with a book called "The Gospel" and declared that these 7 verses in this book were the entire Gospel and were all the Bible that a Christian needed? There is nothing to stop a protestant from doing this, is there?
@jeffkardosjr.3825
@jeffkardosjr.3825 5 ай бұрын
@@PatrickSteil The Gospel is Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
@djpodesta
@djpodesta 5 ай бұрын
It is interesting that you keep referring to the many Protestant Denominations. Have you considered about how many different Orders, Rites, splits from orders and fractures there are within the Catholic Church? Why is disharmony _within_ the RCC to be prayed about, but disharmony _against_ or _outside of_ the RCC to be condemned or mocked? If it is RCC; _’They are only human’_ If not RCC; _’They are deceived’_ What is the difference? The same also goes for the small minded Protestants. If anybody actually had the truth, I think that attitudes among religious people would be far more pious and a _lot_ less condescending.
@geoffjs
@geoffjs 5 ай бұрын
The difference is that Protestants have 000’s of sects with no authority, the fruit of personal interpretation. There is only One True Catholic Church with cultural rites such as Latin, Byzantine, Alexandrian, Syriac, Armenian, Maronite, and Chaldean but all in allegiance with Rome. There are many Orders of priests and nuns who developed over time for different reasons such as the Jesuits, in counter response to Luther, but all in obedience to Rome. So one CC with many fruitful branches
@djpodesta
@djpodesta 5 ай бұрын
@@geoffjs Cheers Geoff. I know that most of them are in obedience to Rome… But you have only recounted half the story and failed to fully address my comment. Why am I not surprised. We could also say that every denomination has been fruitfully administering Gods Word. They all have missionaries I think. If you want to use the term _fruitful,_ why do 70% of Catholics not attend Mass and 90% of attendees of Mass do not know the full meaning of the Mass? Is that really fruitful loyalty to Rome? But I would be more interested in a full answer to my comment.
@geoffjs
@geoffjs 5 ай бұрын
@@djpodestaI didn’t fully understand the second part of your query, so more clarity please Edit yes there is apostasy within the CC, like within Protestantism a sign of the times and that predicted by St Paul. Jesus won’t return until the great apostasy has occurred, so we could be living in the end times, but not the end of time Yes, Protestantism does produce good fruit, however, the faith system is fundamentally flawed with heresy and being man made will fail. By contrast, the CC as the Church founded by Jesus has existed for 2000 yrs in spite of sinful men Matt 16 18-19
@djpodesta
@djpodesta 5 ай бұрын
@@geoffjs I think that there has been apostasy within the church right from the beginning; depending upon how unbiased you are toward history and Jesus has supposedly been returning right from the time of the Apostles. _Now, but not yet_ Anyway, if you cannot understand my comment and cannot give a _full_ account of the church’s internal fractures, it is my guess that you don’t want to understand or know. Your host knows what I am talking about, as he regularly excuses his new found faith and condemns his past. It is just a pity that he did not persevere with his _original calling from God._ or if he was wrong, how can he be sure that his new calling is correct? (rhetorical question; not needing an answer) Have you noticed how most of your preaching apologists are ex-Protestants with ministries that were not meeting their expectations? But, there are also plenty of disgruntled Catholics that have also jumped ship I guess. I really think that God works through His chosen people, who can be found sitting in the pews of all denominations, sects and branches. You pointed out the key word in your first reply. _Culture._ God meets His obedient sons and daughters in the context of the culture in which they reside. If it were not so, people of all backgrounds would not be able to respond to the needs of others, in the name of Jesus. _A kingdom divided against itself will fall_ - Jesus’ reply to those who claimed that He was doing God’s work in the name of Beelzebub. Anyway, I appreciate your half attempt at sharing the Catholic cause, but I have been there and honestly don’t see what all the hype is about. The Church has been a self serving monopoly for far too long; with the apostasy now filtering down to the laity as they have seen to a fuller extent, the apostasy among those who claim to have been called by God. Now that same apostasy is more prevalent across the board; Catholic, Protestant and Orthodoxy; with a few faithful residing in all branches. God will always raise up a remnant for Himself. Just make sure that you are counted among the faithful _to God,_ and not a cheer leader for a church banner.
@djpodesta
@djpodesta 5 ай бұрын
@@geoffjs PS: _The end times scenario_ is a sham that the church uses to try to fill the pews. _Now, but not yet_ is like placing a carrot in-front of a donkey to make it do what you want.
@paulsmallwood1484
@paulsmallwood1484 5 ай бұрын
Protestant response: from the London Baptist Confession of 1689 (Theological formulary) on the Gospel and the extent of its grace: “The gospel is the only outward means of revealing Christ and saving grace, and it is abundantly sufficient for that purpose. Yet to be born again, brought to life or regenerated, those who are dead in trespasses also must have an effectual, irresistible work of the Holy Spirit in every part of their souls to produce in them a new spiritual life. Without this no other means will bring about their conversion to God.”
@MrJohnmartin2009
@MrJohnmartin2009 5 ай бұрын
The Baptist confession presumes the non biblical solas and the non authority of the Baptist denomination without access to the priesthood or the Eucharist, or the Papacy. Matthew says the gospel is the kingdom referring to the Church having Jesus grant Peter the kingdoms keys as the head of the church initially exercised at church council in Acts 15.
@aLadNamedNathan
@aLadNamedNathan 5 ай бұрын
@@MrJohnmartin2009 Why then did James preside over the Jerusalem council in Acts 15 rather than Peter?
@Mach15-20
@Mach15-20 5 ай бұрын
Grace is not irresistible, that’s an calvinist error.
@Mach15-20
@Mach15-20 5 ай бұрын
@@aLadNamedNathanBecause he was the bishop of Jerusalem….installed by Peter btw. Peter took the dogmatic decision, not James.
@paulsmallwood1484
@paulsmallwood1484 5 ай бұрын
@@MrJohnmartin2009 Wrong! It presumes the authority of scripture, the consensus of Christ’s church and the teaching office of the church as ordained by Christ.
@paulsmallwood1484
@paulsmallwood1484 5 ай бұрын
Protestant response: “The mandate for holiness is based in the very character and person of God: we are to be holy because God is holy. His grace never leaves a man where it finds him. Grace always transforms the sinner into a saint-a holy man. God’s will is for His people to be holy, and the explanations of why and how we become holy are throughout the Bible.” - the Rev’d Dr. Joel Beeke (Reformed)
@geoffjs
@geoffjs 5 ай бұрын
To me Grace, which we receive through the sacraments, is like electricity so is never static and can be run down through neglect. Baptism Jn 3:15 Acts 2 38-39 and Eucharist real presence Jn 6 51-58 are according to the bible, essential for salvation as are faith and good works. James 2:24
@paulsmallwood1484
@paulsmallwood1484 5 ай бұрын
@@geoffjs Protestant response: Indeed the sacraments are given by God to the Church as a means of grace. To be more precise, it is a means of sanctifying Grace whereby our faith is strengthened and we grow in holiness. Sacraments-both assure and strengthen us in our relationship with God. Augustine also put it this way: sacraments are “visible signs of invisible grace.” They are one way that God imparts His grace to strengthen us in the faith.
@geoffjs
@geoffjs 5 ай бұрын
@@paulsmallwood1484but as a Protestant, am I correct in assuming that you don’t take the 7 sacraments seriously ie confession Jn 20:23 and the real presence in the Eucharist Jn 6 51-58
@paulsmallwood1484
@paulsmallwood1484 5 ай бұрын
@@geoffjs No, you are not correct. Historic Protestantism observes two sacraments: Baptism and Holy Communion and yes they take them very seriously. Historic Protestantism teaches the real presence but they don’t use the term transubstantiation to explain it. For example Lutherans believe Christ’s body and blood are literally present in the Eucharist. Anglicans and Reformed believe that you feed upon Christ’s body and blood in the Eucharist by faith. As far as the rite of Confession or Reconciliation historic Protestantism considers it a sacramental but not a sacrament. Anglicans and Lutherans for example believe that the Priest/Pastor holds the Office of the Keys and therefore parishioners should go to their Priest or Pastor, confess their sins to him privately where he will pronounce absolution. Reformed also believe in the Office of the Keys, public and private confession of sins followed by the assurance of forgiveness are built into their liturgies. Private confession in the Padtor’s office is also available. Historic Protestantism believes the Office of the Keys includes the authority to ban from Ho,y Communion as well as excommunication.
@paulsmallwood1484
@paulsmallwood1484 5 ай бұрын
@@geoffjs kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mdiUaLeQvqm9kYU.htmlsi=O9c1bmEBw6OG6NXm
@DRNewcomb
@DRNewcomb 5 ай бұрын
Luther said "sola scriptura" but what he meant was "scriptura primum". Lutherans accept a lot of tradition as long as it doesn't conflict with scripture. One example is infant baptism, which frankly can be argued either way. Otherwise, it's very difficult to say "Protestants believe..." because there is so much diversity of beliefs. BTW, Luther never wanted to create a different church, he and many of his contemporaries were excommunicated by Rome. You might as well say that "Constantinople started a different church" when Cardinal Humbert excommunicated Cerularius. In many ways, the Orthodox are just the first Protestants.
@dave_ecclectic
@dave_ecclectic 5 ай бұрын
In a way they are the first Protestants, but they never abandoned all the Sacraments and other truths, to be led by some gomer who picked up a book and formed his own gospel. Luther on his route also broke his Vows and married a Nun who broke her vows. Whether he meant to start a new church but did not want to his extensive writings seem to show him a liar. Besides all that all the leading "reformers" were Heretics and as they came from a corrupt society were corrupt themselves. 2 or 3 personally caused the death of another.
@PatrickSteil
@PatrickSteil 5 ай бұрын
Why re-interpret Luther? Let him speak for himself. Curious that one cannot turn to the Scripture, any church council or any authoritative source to even examine what sola sciptura actually means. I have heard many different opposing definitions. Also, the Catholic Church holds that Scripture is definitely primary and nothing in our Faith contradicts anything in Sacred Scripture.
@DRNewcomb
@DRNewcomb 5 ай бұрын
@@PatrickSteil Because if Luther actually meant SOLA he'd have been a Calvinist and done only what scripture commanded. As it is, Lutherans retain a great deal of Catholic belief and practice, such that a Baptist attending a Lutheran service would assume it was a Catholic church. I feel that if our current spirit of open dialog existed in 1054 or 1517 neither the Schism nor the Reformation would have occurred. The last two pastors of the local Catholic parish have accepted me as a sort of honorary Catholic, the current pastor said I'm a "better Catholic" than most of his parishioners. But that's not my main point, which is that one gets onto very thin ice when one says, "Protestants believe" because what counts as "Protestant" ranges from High Anglicans and Lutherans to some denominations who don't even believe in the Trinity. About the only thing that one can safely say that ALL Protestants believe is that the Pope is not the sole, infallible head of The Church. This being a position they share with every flavor of Orthodox.
@PatrickSteil
@PatrickSteil 5 ай бұрын
​@@DRNewcomb "I feel that if our current spirit of open dialog existed in 1054 or 1517 neither the Schism nor the Reformation would have occurred." I do agree on this and am hopeful for reconciliation! "About the only thing that one can safely say that ALL Protestants believe is that the Pope is not the sole, infallible head of The Church. " Yes, or at least those Orthodox who are not in communion with Rome. I guess I am guilty of lumping all the Protestant stuff together, yes... too easy to do that...
@sandra4065
@sandra4065 5 ай бұрын
@@DRNewcombI think the point of this vid was more about Protestant disagreement regarding proper interpretation of Scripture. There are many types of Protestants, as you pointed out - all are children of the Reformation - and they all disagree about “what the Bible *plainly* teaches”. So, yes: High church Prot denominations hold some tradition, yet even their doctrine has changed over the years to embrace secular culture. For example: No Christian denomination accepted Contraception as anything but sinful until the 1900’s. In other words, every Protestant denomination embraced what was, for 1900 years, considered “pharmakeia” (grave sin according to Scripture). Catholic Church alone did not change the teaching. Lutheran churches - at least some - even accept Abortion now, and gay marriage! These are the fruits of the Reformation. Very bad fruits. Luther had a profound devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary - unheard of in modern Lutheran church. So we have much in common but there are some monumental differences.
@JesusSavesTheLostBrokenConfuse
@JesusSavesTheLostBrokenConfuse 5 ай бұрын
Idk why people gotta be orthodox, protestant or catholic or whatever. Jesus never said be any of those, he said follow him and walk in Spirit and power of God. Most Americans forgot this basic teaching in the Bible and many of them are not living as Jesus teaches them to lay their lives on the alter for God to use.
@geoffjs
@geoffjs 5 ай бұрын
Jesus founded His One True Church Matt 16 18-19 and the same Church still exists today with an apostolic unbroken line going back to Peter. The Orthodox broke away in 1054 but remains on good terms with the CC. The real problem emerged with the heretical reform starting with Luther in 1517 who had good grounds for complaint. However, he went to far, changed theology and the bible including removing 7 books. The fruit today of personal interpretation is the scandal of 000’s of sects where everyone is their own pope. Crucially, some Protestants don’t believe in the two essential sacraments of Baptism Jn 3:5 and the real presence in the Eucharist Jn 6 51-58, both of which are necessary for salvation. Protestantism doesn’t have altars for sacrificial worship, so false church
@JesusSavesTheLostBrokenConfuse
@JesusSavesTheLostBrokenConfuse 5 ай бұрын
@@geoffjs You have no idea what you are talking about, what you speak of is flesh and the flesh we all know shall die. It is the Spirit that gives Life. It doesnt matter all these names they werent even in the Bible. Im an Ex Buddhist and God saved me himself in my room through divine supernatural encounter, I didnt even know God existed and the Bible revealed as I read it. Many will not make it due to living in theology of all these traditions created by human beings instead of following alone in God. The church God made is in each person! Its not a physical building. The building is for fellowship, people not understand Jesus basic teachings because theyre worldly minded of the things of the flesh and not worshipping God in Spirit and in Truth. Therefore God seems so far from them and never answered their prayers due to their idol worships.
@geoffjs
@geoffjs 5 ай бұрын
@@JesusSavesTheLostBrokenConfusewith respect, you only have part of the history correct. If you’re referring to Jn 6:63, the Catholic understanding is that the physical person of flesh has difficulty understanding transubstantiation but our spirit understands. Jesus did found His One True Church & gave it authority Matt 16 18-19 which became known as the Catholic or universal Church & has existed for 2000 yrs, in spite of sinful men, proof of its divine origin. The Church is the pillar of Truth 1 Tim 3:15 and it codified the bible in 382 from which Luther removed 7 books without authority Deut 4:2 The heresy and error of Protestantism is in plain view. The heresy of personal interpretation makes everyone their own pope, hence the scandal of 000’s of sects when Jesus willed unity Jn 17:21. Protestantism doesn’t have a unifying authority, so confusion reigns resulting in many “truths” ie relativism and look what that has done to society. Protestantism was the first attack on the CC in 1517, followed by Freemasonry in 1717 and Communism in 1917 which has returned as extreme leftism and wokeism Protestantism doesn’t have proper sacrificial worship as commanded by Jesus Jn 6 51-58, so no altars, false church, more like a synagogue. Mal 1:11 refers to Gentiles offering sacrifice in all places at all times. Only the CC & Orthodox do this. The words daily bread in the Lords Prayer, in their original language mean supernatural bread or Eucharistic
@Hope_Boat
@Hope_Boat 5 ай бұрын
Meanwhile we orthodox Greeks read the Greek original Gospel in Greek.
@dave_ecclectic
@dave_ecclectic 5 ай бұрын
Only if you have a koine.
@catholicskeptic
@catholicskeptic 5 ай бұрын
@Hope_Boat And hopefully you'll someday take Christ at His word in what He states so clearly and unequivocally in Matthew 16:13-19.
@Hope_Boat
@Hope_Boat 5 ай бұрын
@@catholicskeptic Saint Peter established the Eastern Church in Antioch. We have a valid petrinian apostolic succession. Thank you very much. What our Lord states so clearly and unequivocally about the leadership with the Church is in Luke 22:24-30
@Hope_Boat
@Hope_Boat 5 ай бұрын
@@dave_ecclectic We learn koine Greek in school still. It's not that different from modern Greek. All the liturgies are done in koine Greek so we are familiar with hearing it on a daily basis as well. Also we learn and recite the hymns and all prayers such as the Our Father in koine Greek. We know the apolytikion part of the liturgy by heart. Here is the apolytikion of the Pentacost : Ευλογητός ει, Χριστέ ο Θεός ημών, ο πανσόφους τους αλιείς αναδείξας, καταπέμψας αυτοίς το Πνεύμα το άγιον, και δι' αυτών την οικουμένην σαγηνεύσας, φιλάνθρωπε, δόξα σοι. If you want to translate in modern Greek you only need to change a couple of words and modernize the termination of the verbs. καταπέμψας means spread over like a net. It's old fashion but understandable. σαγηνεύσας means to catch in a net. Old fashion but understandable by its etymology. It's easier than reading Shakespeare's English for an American.
@dave_ecclectic
@dave_ecclectic 5 ай бұрын
@@Hope_Boat Low hanging fruit. I am *NOT* going to say it is all ***** to me. Monetized or not.
@user-fi1pe4dg3u
@user-fi1pe4dg3u 5 ай бұрын
It’s not a question of what gospel it’s a question of the right interpretation. Sorry but the catholic church doesn’t have the right interpretation.
@dave_ecclectic
@dave_ecclectic 5 ай бұрын
You didn't finish it, but if you're saying the Church that Jesus promised would not fail has failed then who are you calling a liar? Then of course The Church had the interpretation of Jesus throught His teachers, the Apostles. Whereas Protestants have dozens of interpretations and they are all done by....who?
@peterzinya1
@peterzinya1 5 ай бұрын
@@dave_ecclectic There is no need to interpret the bible. The bible says what it means and means what it says. The bible says no images. Catholics taker that to mean fill your homes and temples to the rafters with images.
@catholicskeptic
@catholicskeptic 5 ай бұрын
@@peterzinya1 Hmm , Peter here apparently hasn't read or refuses to believe Exodus 25:10-21, where God instructs Moses in making the Ark of the Covenant, with images of Cherubim, the where God would meet with His people. Of course he also doesn't believe Jesus words in John 6:48-66, where Christ tells us in no uncertain terms that we are to eat His flesh and drink His blood. Nor does He believe Christ's words in John 20:21-23, where Christ gives His Apostles the power to forgive or to retain men's sins. Like so many anti-catholics he doesn't even know what the Bible teaches, and therefore must make the attempt to explain away the scriptures. I write this in hopes my Catholic brothers and sisters pray for this poor , lost soul, that he might someday come home to the Church Christ established.
@dave_ecclectic
@dave_ecclectic 5 ай бұрын
@@peterzinya1 Thus, say Protestant version 405. I have yet to hear a book say anything, as books don't speak, they certainly cannot mean what they cannot say. The Bible does not 'say' _no images._ ​ @peterzinya1 says no images. doubling down after just claiming the Bible does not need any interpretation. ​ @peterzinya1 must believe God hasn't read the Bible as He certainly uses images and statues a whole lot. Then ​ @peterzinya1 claims only Catholics fill their homes with images while he types on a computer displaying images, watches TV displaying images and most likely has images of SOME family member if not numerous family members and other unrelated art _images_ hanging on his walls. What does the Bible say about beams in your eye? Hypocrite.
@peterzinya1
@peterzinya1 5 ай бұрын
@@catholicskeptic God had Moses make an Ark with cherubs. What did god ask you to make? God told US not to make images for ourselves. So, could people file by and slobber on the cherubs like catholics do to their statues? No. They would die. But catholics have to come up with something to justify their graven images. I dont blame you one bit. Its not your fault. But you said you used to be a prot. How could you trade the invisible god for a face full of crackers? Jesus is the Word. His flesh and blood are his Words. Eating them means believing his Words, not eating a cracker. Since catholics dont believe one gat dang word of Jesus, they substitute a cracker and claim eating it will save them. The unsaved hav4e all kinds of stuff to try and substitute for being born again, since they have no idea what born again is. The good news is, all you have to do is ask jesus to come into your heart. Thats it. No 7 sacrements or costume pedophile holymen needed. Just you and your maker.
@ralf547
@ralf547 5 ай бұрын
Did you ever really get around to defining a Catholic Gospel? I've listened twice. The Trinity isn't explicitly stated in the bible, so an explicit declaration isn't needed for the doctrine of scripture alone to be implicit in the text. But this is an issue I will comment on separately, since my thoughts will most certainly get a lot of responses from both sides. Because I have previously expressed my opinion on this, I will only mention now that I find Catholicism to have Justification and Sanctification confused. To have them confused risks falling into works righteousness and results in the Catholic Church's semi-Pelagianism. The "thousands" of denominations you speak of can be narrowed down to a much fewer groups. First disqualify as Christian all those who are actually heretical (or has the Catholic Church actually done that by anathemitizing us all?). Then, there are those who say the bible is inerrant and infallible (which includes Catholicism) vs those who say the bible isn't God's word but does contain God's word (allowing women ordination, LGBTQ+ lifestyles, etc). Narrower distinctions such as despensationalism can be made. Catholicism, especially right now, has to a smaller degree the same problems. Those who are Latin Mass Traditionalists, Conservative Novus Ordo attenders, those who attend and support LGBTQ+ Masses, those who "reject" Francis' agenda, sedevacantists, the SSPX, Africa vs Rome, and on and on. And is a sedevacantist still actually Catholic? Is the SSPX in schism or not? Is a Latin Mass still a means of grace? Catholics can also be divided very simply into the saved and unsaved categories, as defined by Catholicism. Those who have committed mortal sins (i.e. not attending required Masses) and never go to confession might still be labeled a Catholic, but they are still damned in the eyes of the Church. Rather than always pointing out the multiplicity of denominations, when making a distinction between a "Catholic" and a "Protestant" gospel, it might be clearer to the viewers if you just define salvation. Let me try for you. Catholicism believes that a person will go to heaven if they are absolved of all their mortal sins. It may require a nearly eternal stay in Purgatory first, due to venial sins that weren't absolved. Jesus suffered the just punishment in our place for all of our sins. However, a Catholic Priest is required for sins to be absolved. The authority by which the priest can absolve a sinner is based on Christ's giving Peter the authority of the "Keys" with that authority passed down through an uninterrupted chain of ordained bishops (successors of the Apostles). This is another way of saying that only the Catholic Church can forgive a sinner and make her/him eligible for heaven. Which is why denying the authority of the Catholic Church is damning. That is the Catholic Gospel. Implicit in having all mortal sins forgiven is recognizing any errors held regarding God (i.e. Trinity, Jesus' virgin birth and sinlessness, etc) and failing to believe and obey all the dogmas that have come down within Sacred Tradition and Councils and ex cathedra. To fail to believe and obey any of these is a mortal sin and must be absolved. This places allegiance to the Catholic Church as paramount, since faith in Christ as savior without a priest's absolution is insufficient. I don't think I have Catholic salvation entirely, correctly defined. Apparently there are 3 conditions which must all be met for a sin to be mortal. Catholic Answers explains them, but deciding if any particular violation of any of the 10 commandments qualifies it as mortal is not an easy task. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 identifies sins which exclude someone from heaven. I recall Jesus saying we are to be perfect just as the Father is. Failure to confess and receive absolution from a Catholic priest for every mortal sin is damning. Knowing if you have committed a mortal sin requires some deep thought that even St. Thomas Aquinas had to give in-depth consideration to (according to Catholic Answers). How is an individual to know for sure, since to be guilty is damning until absolved. Perhaps daily absolution is required to even be somewhat assured of salvation? Even then, wouldn't every possible mortal sin need to be recalled so as to be confessed? Only if the priest also possesses the ability to absolve all the sinners mortals sins based solely on the sinners sincere contrition of even unremembered mortal sins, can there even be the possibility of anyone having all their mortal sins absolved. But if it is within the power of the priest to forgive all sins committed based only on the sinners sincere contrition of her/his sins, both known and unknown, then even all the venial sins of the person can be forgiven in the confessional with each visit. Therefore, Purgatory would be a lonely place that is only briefly visited by those heaven bound; and those who are heaven bound would only be those who failed to commit another mortal sin between exiting the confessional and dying. But in all this, who is the real savior? The Church which possesses the power, and through Councils and Popes can add to the parishioners requirements? And when the Church and Francis mislead some of the faithful, how is that identified? With Scripture and Sacred Tradition. How is past Sacred Tradition assuredly not in error? It's because it doesn't violate the test of Scripture. Or is the sinner his/her own savior. Each must decide if he/she is guilty of a mortal sin or not. Unless a priest is depended upon to make that call for him/her. What a burden the Catholic Church puts on people. Christ lived, suffered, died, and was resurrected. Believing He did this on your behalf is salvation. With that belief/faith/trust comes the gift of the Holy Spirit who transforms the sinner, freeing him/her from slavery to sin and empowering her/him to do good works and please God. Yes, that empowering comes from God's means of grace, His Word and Sacraments. Someone without good works has almost certainly only a said faith and not a saving faith. blessings,
@catholicskeptic
@catholicskeptic 5 ай бұрын
@ralf547 Thanks for the Dissertation on Protestant notions of salvation . When you critique the Catholic concept, you focus the voices of various Catholic groups, who in current society, a reflection really of a self-centered , self-motivated, self-defining concepts of what Christianity/Catholicism is. The same can be done for the Protestant churches, but the DIFFERENCE IS, in Protestant Christianity, that's all you got! It's thousands of voices expressing myriads of views on spins on the book. In the Catholic Church you have 2000 years of Tradition, of clearly defined interpretations of scripture, vs. the arrogant voices of modernity and Post-modernity who don't believe in anything above their inner feelings, their inner light, if you will. Jesus warned us to "take heed that the light that in in you be not darkness, how great is that darkness ". ( Matthew 6:23). No darkness is so great as the darkness thst proceeds from the human heart that trusts in its own perception. " He who trusts in his own heart is a fool, but that walks wisely shall be delivered ."(?Proverbs 28:26)So a wise person does not trust his own heart. As for the definition, if you were actually listening, rather than formulating a response, you would have heard me say quite clearly, the definition of the gospel is actually the same as yours, concisely stated in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. The issue is how one interprets the text. Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose from the dead. He redeemed us. He saves us by His Grace; the breaking point is how this Grace is transmitted to us. The choice is not to be found by the private views and interpretations on various verses pulled from the Bible, such as the ludicrous "Romans Road" formulation I was taught. Nor can it be , logically, rationally, determined by the spin of a rebellious Augustinian monk's speculations , made 1500 years after the time of Christ. Which is what you choose to put your faith in. I use to as well. I came to realize that Christ did not ( and no where said He would) just give us a book and send us all on scavenger hunts in hopes we stumble upon some version of the Plan! He did say he would build a Church, and the gates of hell would not prevail against it. That Church has a rich history of holy saints, martyrs and miracles, and yes of corruption and wicked folks as well. BUT, it has remained One Church for 2000 years.. It has survived far worse Popes, crises , and corruptions. But it still proclaims the same truth . But again you missed my point entirely as I just noticed in your comment on the Trinity, it not that the Trinity isn't "explicitly mentioned ", it's that it is not TAUGHT at all. Because we have the doctrine given to us first ( by the Church ) , that we can find all the proof texts. And yes the definition is very needed , which is why the Church has declared it( and in opposition to the Arian heresy. Anyway, this a quick response on a lunch break from work, I will try later to parse out your long thesis in more detail. God Bless, my Lutheran friend.
@ralf547
@ralf547 5 ай бұрын
​@@catholicskeptic Forgive my jumping on a response, when you said you were going to continue your response. You thanked me for the dissertation. I don't think I gave you a dissertation. A dissertation is a long writing based on research I would have done myself. I did make a statement at the end, quickly stating the gospel and the effect that saving faith has on a believer. My response to your video stated how Catholicism is divided up into camps like protestantism is, showing Catholicism isn't unique. It's just older and bigger. You said I critiqued, but I was presenting what I believe Catholicism's gospel is, which isn't the same as the protestant gospel. The protestant gospel is flawed, and you spoke about that in your video. I get included among protestants by most all Catholics, but as a confessional Lutheran, I find myself at odds with the protestants you speak of, almost as much as you do. The only difference between the various disparate Catholic groups and the more numerous protestant groups is numbers. We've already conversed about my inability to find a clearly defined scriptural interpretation by the Catholic Church. I can find in Catholic writings many understandings of portions of Scripture that are correct. But there are other portions that simply aren't an accurate interpretation. You and many other Catholics accurately point out the many differing protestant interpretations. I did that as well in my response. But their errors don't make the Catholic interpretation 100% correct, especially the interpretations that are semi-Pelagian. You accuse me of not listening. I was listening thru two viewings. You say the Catholic definition of the gospel is the same as mine. But mine isn't the protestant definition in the vast majority of cases. And by the end of the video, you explained how the Catholic gospel wasn't actually the same as the protestant version. That's why I offered my understanding of how Catholicism explains the means of salvation. That 16th century rebellious monk, dead for 1500+ years, is not who I put my faith in. Where he was correct in his understanding, I agree with him. Real Lutheranism has the Book of Concord as a summary of our beliefs, and we find them totally in agreement with Scripture. You may continue to use Luther as you do since it apparently satisfies you and many other Catholics happy, but he only contributed some writings which later theologians included in the Book of Concord. I don't expect you to read the Book of Concord any more than I am going to take the time to read the entire Catholic Catechism. But I have read the entire Book of Concord. Have you read the entire Catholic Catechism? My faith is in Christ as my savior, not Luther. As you tire of some of my repeated assurtions, I tire of hearing about Luther's personal problems and my personal interpretations. Your interpretation of Catholicism is a personal one. You may share it with some other Catholics, but not all. I pointed that out in my response. I agree that there is only on pure Catholic Church, but which one is it? The one Francis is moving it towards or the one that only had a Latin Mass not that very long ago? Both believe they are in possession of the one true faith. So, protestantism is no different. They for the most part all think they are at least the closest to the one true expression of Christ's Church. With regard to Jesus not sending a "book" down to us, I agree. The earliest Christians were saved by faith in Jesus who they believed to be God's Son, possessing the same nature as the Father, Who obtained forgiveness of their sins and their salvation unto eternal life. They didn't have a written book or entire Canon of Scripture. It's a blessing that we have the Scriptures we have today. In the same way, people are saved today without the Apocryphal Books, but not the essential writings of Scripture that the Holy Spirit uses to create saving faith, and from which God gave us means of His Grace through Sacraments. How many Catholics have read the Apocryphal books or even the entire bible? If not, are they damned? But even the Catholic Church admits that not all of it's Sacraments are necessary for salvation, because not every Catholic receives all of them. I agree with you that the One True Church has remained for 2000 years. It has survived bad Popes and corruptions, and it needed a Reformation which likewise has suffered corruptions and schisms. I pointed out my understanding of Catholicisms path to salvation, including questions about mortal sin and absolution. I expounded on issues I found difficult to accept. You haven't responded to that. Perhaps your limited time prevents you from really contemplating and coming up with a response? I can understand that, and perhaps you plan to address this already. Still, I over simplify my questions and ask again. No one enters heaven with unabsolved mortal sin. Rejection of the Pope and Catholic Church as the One True Church is a mortal sin, just as missing Mass is a mortal sin. Mortal sin can only be absolved by a properly ordained Catholic priest. Even if a sinner believes Jesus is God and his Savior, he is still damned because of mortal sin not absolved by a Catholic priest. Can a sinner know for certain whether or not he/she is currently guilty of all mortal sins? If not, does a priest then absolve all the mortal sins in the confessional, including those not recalled and confessed? The LCMS does not claim to be the one true Church, just the most faithful visible expression of Christ's one true Church on the earth. I have certainty of my salvation as long as persist in my faith and work out my already possessed saving faith with fear and trembling. The Catholic Church is for many, I fear, an idol which brings to mind the Commandment against idolatry. Respectfully,
@geoffjs
@geoffjs 3 ай бұрын
Confession is in the bible Jn 20 23
@ralf547
@ralf547 3 ай бұрын
@@geoffjs Confession and absolution are indeed in the bible. My point and/or question relates to Catholic teaching that all sins must be confessed in order to be absolved and that only a Catholic Priest can absolve. Am I correct in this understanding? The sinner can never remember every sin committed and so will die with unabsolved venial sins for which Purgatory is a solution. However, Purgatory isn't a solution for mortal sins. To die having not confessed and received absolution of all mortal sins is damning, despite the sinners belief and trust in Jesus as savior having obtained forgiveness of all mankind's sins. Would you say that is the case in Catholicism?
@paulsmallwood1484
@paulsmallwood1484 5 ай бұрын
Protestant response. You really do need to do a serious study of historic Protestant theological formularies from the 16th, 17th and 18th century. It is clearly apparent that you have not undertaken to do this since you so grossly mischaracterize the so called “Protestant Gospel”. There is no Protestant Gospel. There is only the Gospel of Christ and how historic, classical Protestantism understands that gospel. Please see excerpt from the London Baptist Confession of 1689 (theological formulary) on the topic of the importance of good works: “These good works, done in obedience to God’s commandments, are the fruit and evidence of a true and living faith. Through good works believers express their thankfulness, strengthen their assurance, build up their brothers and sisters, adorn the profession of the gospel, stop the mouths of opponents, and glorify God. Believers are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, so that they bear fruit leading to holiness and have the outcome, eternal life. Their ability to do good works does not arise at all from themselves but entirely from the Spirit of Christ. To enable them to do good works, they need-in addition to the graces they have already received-an actual influence of the same Holy Spirit to work in them to will and to do his good pleasure. Yet this is no reason for them to grow negligent, as if they were not required to perform any duty without a special motion of the Spirit. Instead, they should be diligent to stir up the grace of God that is in them.
@apostolicapologetics4829
@apostolicapologetics4829 5 ай бұрын
You stated: Their ability to do good works does not arise at all from themselves but entirely from the Spirit of Christ. To enable them to do good works, they need-in addition to the graces they have already received-an actual influence of the same Holy Spirit to work in them to will and to do his good pleasure. Yet this is no reason for them to grow negligent, as if they were not required to perform any duty without a special motion of the Spirit. Instead, they should be diligent to stir up the grace of God that is in them. I agree with this, that Holy Spirit is at work in them to will and to do his good pleasure. The Holy Spirit is at working in a willing participant. God is the first mover and we are secondary cooperators. “We know that in everything God works for good with (sunergei eis agathon) those who love him, who are called according to his purpose” (Romans 8:28). “Working together with him, then, we entreat you not to accept the grace of God in vain” (2 Corinthians 6:1). We need prevenient graces, operative graces, cooperative and habitual graces. Would you agree?
@fantasia55
@fantasia55 5 ай бұрын
historical and classical - yet only a few hundred years old!
@paulsmallwood1484
@paulsmallwood1484 5 ай бұрын
@@fantasia55 Ah… you know how to be snarky isn’t that special. Congratulations.
@paulsmallwood1484
@paulsmallwood1484 5 ай бұрын
@@apostolicapologetics4829 I have no big problem with what you said.
@apostolicapologetics4829
@apostolicapologetics4829 5 ай бұрын
Do you hold to the London Baptist Confession of 1689? If so, why or why not? By what authority do you trust these confessions?
@lwedel3361
@lwedel3361 5 ай бұрын
as an ex church believer, nothing is more disturbing (and vile) than teaching eternal conscious torment.
@catholicskeptic
@catholicskeptic 5 ай бұрын
@lwedal3361 No idea what you are referring to, you would need to elaborate.
@lwedel3361
@lwedel3361 5 ай бұрын
Hello, there are a few teachings which I find disturbing. One is that unbelievers will burn forever and ever without rest in some place of torture called 'Hell'. Second, this false idea that the 'Church' involves a four walled temple where we must assemble religiously for meetings. When I look up the ekklesia passages in Scripture, I do not find any justification for the church system we have today.@@catholicskeptic
@catholicskeptic
@catholicskeptic 5 ай бұрын
@@lwedel3361 Understand. Those are tough questions. I use to have a similar perspective, but I found that as I searched, my perspective changed. As far as the 4 walls go, the Church, is really the people who gather in the 4 walls . But we are also sensory beings, and being in an environment, an atmosphere where my faith in the unseen is enhanced, engaged and developed by the beauty of Icons, statues, Stained glass windows, candles, music, ceremony, incense, etc. In other words, the unseen infused by the seen, has made all the difference.
@sandra4065
@sandra4065 5 ай бұрын
@@lwedel3361Why to Protestants think Catholics define “Church” as a building??? WE DO NOT. According to Scripture, the Church is believers, and it is a Visible Church - as in, there is hierarchical offices (Acts 1:20, 15:16; Eph 4:5; 1 Tim 3:1, 8, 15). No mention anywhere in Scripture of an amorphous, invisible Church (whose members all disagree with each other). Plus, utterly unhistorical.
@lwedel3361
@lwedel3361 5 ай бұрын
Hi Sandra, I am not a Protestant. According to Scripture, the word translated as Church (ekklesia) looks nothing like this thing we have called Church today. A simple study of the word Ekklesia in the NT reveals that this thing called Church is not the same thing as the Ekklesia. You have yourself an idol called CHURCH-@@sandra4065
@BritishBibleBelievers
@BritishBibleBelievers 5 ай бұрын
Demon-looking skull to the far right. RUN
@sandra4065
@sandra4065 5 ай бұрын
😂 Just as 1st century Christians used skull images in art to remind us that we may face God at any moment (ie: we know not when we shall die), so we use them as well. “Scary”.
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