PROVING THE CRITICS WRONG [why catamarans don’t sail well]

Рет қаралды 96,167

Күн бұрын

Catamarans can't sail upwind...catamarans sail poorly.... Critics say that cats don't sail well or sail as well as monohulls....but the boat may not be to blame...it could be your powerplant instead....and the powerplant are you sails. So before you sell your "slow, heavy cat" for something more "performance" oriented, take a good long look at your sails. They aren't the tires on your boat...they are then engine. You may need new sails.
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Пікірлер: 258

@clintbillton2161 2 жыл бұрын

I must agree with Mr.Spock: FASCINATING! Can you two ever do an episode I don't need to see over and over and still save it so I can look at it again later? I love you guys! .. Much ❤ from 🇸🇪.

@TheOKellys 2 жыл бұрын

Wow, that's a heck of a compliment. Thank you

@bryanmyers9977 2 жыл бұрын

Good job. I like that you are comparing ground tracks and VMG. While sailing an informal drag race between a 45 foot cruising cat and a 45 foot cruising monohull in 2004 upwind I realized that VMG to windward was king. Pointing is just one variable in the mix. Pointing is less important than upwind VMG unless you are trying to sail upwind in a constricted waterway which cruisers almost never do. I often have to argue this point in discussions with other sailors who have not thought it through.

@TheOKellys 2 жыл бұрын

VMG is really all that matters….ever. Pointing means so so little.

@graeme-sailingskeptic 2 жыл бұрын

Totally love that new sail feeling - on the tri we have replaced all the sails Main, jib, Screecher and kite. Sooo good to have great sails.

@graeme-sailingskeptic 2 жыл бұрын

I love how you monitor the comments so quickly thanks. Feels like we are almost chatting in real time!

@TheOKellys 2 жыл бұрын

We try. Just getting ready to cast off so we will go quiet. But we see this as a community and a conversation for sure.

@jochenjochen8780 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Nick, this was very educative! And Wow! The facts about the tacking angles really got me. Didn't expect the laminates to be sooooo much better. Thanks for sharing your knowledge💪

@normancook4620 Жыл бұрын

AS a pilot I am surprised you have not THOURLY examines the ridiculous lack of the attention to the sorely attended 3 Catagories of Keels ,centerboards & daggerboards I would love have a discussion on the virtues of these 3 vrs The 4th NEW catagory: SCABBOARDS.....let me educate you ,like you educated the Sailors in this video

@masscomnet 2 жыл бұрын

"Back to you Megan". "Oh thank you Nick for that excellent story about how your sails make your boat go forward".

@nicholasbell9017 10 ай бұрын

Very well explained..! The heeling factor makes sense; in a monohull, as the wind speed increases, its energy is spilled as the boat heels. But with a flat-sailing catamaran, that does not happen, so the sails take the full force. So they will wear out and get baggy. Which means you're gonna go sideways a lot when the wind is coming from anywhere apart from behind you. I wonder if a Junk (fully battened lugsail) rig has been applied to a cat. It's never going to win races but you reef easily, and less stress on a mast than all this kevlar at vast cost and rolling-furling headsails, a fucking right handful when the wind pipes up suddenly.

@jfkalim 2 жыл бұрын

Gentlemen don’t sail to weather! But seriously people believe that good sails are only for racing but there are crucial for a cruising boat. Oh, one more thing, when you raise the sail, don’t pull down, rather pull out (like drawing a bow and then down together with your wife pulling the tail then. It's way more efficient and better for your back (15 years racing, ask me how I know).

@jamesfvandeventerjr9012 2 жыл бұрын

You did a great job landing that plane Nick. you did a very good job explaining how to trim your sails on a catamaran for up wind. Clarity looked like she's ready to take off beautifully done sir great job by the mate working the ropes

@armorguy1108 2 жыл бұрын

I learned more about sails and sail shape from this video than any other video I've seen. I genuinely appreciate the education. Safe travels!

@windmolenfarm8030 2 жыл бұрын

Great video! I had an old sail on my monohull for 3 years and did not realize it was the sail that was causing the excess heeling and slow speed. I considered myself a good sailor and good at trim but could never get any performance out of the boat. Now I know why. Thanks a million (or at least several thousand...).

@Khiron515 2 жыл бұрын

Hey Nick that was the best video I’ve ever seen on sail performance ever, I appreciate your awesome explanation & integrity😎😜

@TheOKellys 2 жыл бұрын

Wow Ricki, thank you!

@bobf4765 2 жыл бұрын

Funny statement - "Hey, what's the rush? It's not a race..." Until sails are spotted, going the same heading... And the race begins! Great video! Thanks!

@PacificSolo 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the effort you put into this video! Exceedingly helpful even though I sail a mono hull.

@antikatigra1382 2 жыл бұрын

Very informative and informative. This is how much time had to be spent on collecting and summarizing the information provided. Thanks for the release.

@hakubaholiday9006 2 жыл бұрын

Outstanding episode O'Kelly's! Thank you for all your hard work!

@leonply 2 жыл бұрын

Super video, as usual!! All of the information regarding the choice of sail materials is very appreciated. Thank you for the great inspiration!

@rayslaughter7213 2 жыл бұрын

In the marketing world today everything has to be priced cheaper than the next guy. "You get what you paid for for" is only looked at the moment of purchase and performance over the long haul is not considered anymore. All things considered you probably are money ahead even if you paid more now with the added bonus of good performance. Thanks for sharing

@carljohnson5006 2 жыл бұрын

Another great video. When I was younger I got a chance to take the north sails fast course . Your explanation of sailing techniques does you proud. Keep up the good work.

@edgarmuller6652 2 жыл бұрын

Very nice teacher. Agree 100% on the laminate sail performance. We kept both on out monohull sloop to use them in different settings but understand that in the Sail area that you have that isn’t an option.

@barryandrews4316 2 жыл бұрын

Awesome vid again..it has taken me awhile to warm to you guuys...but i kept watching..and now i learn so much about sailing..and i enjoy your vids..Cheers Bazz

@cmo6588 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks For the Very informative Vlog on sails .. I really enjoyed it and am on my 2nd time watching it .. can’t begin to tell you how much I appreciate you sharing your experience with real data for comparison .. I love getting 100% performance out of a good sail and getting a cruiser what I call ‘up on the keels’ going up wind is such a great feeling ..

@gdiup9241 2 жыл бұрын

Great video! The graphic overlay was so helpful on Leeway, trim & tack. Neat to see how laminate fibers are laid too. Good to see y'all 'this week'

@diggieknuckles1836 2 жыл бұрын

Your logic is spot on my Vulcan friend! Once again nothing but quality and I just love your music, your filming and your intelligent content, not to mention your new sleeping quarters. That's why I am s sub of yours!! Good luck, fair winds and I look forward to the next show.

@danmallery9142 2 жыл бұрын

That was a great video. Very educational!

@SailingLifeonMars 2 жыл бұрын

Great video! I am eager to try out the sails on our new-to-us Knysna 440, which I am told "crab sails", and does not point into the wind whatsoever. We shall see.

@justinreed87 2 жыл бұрын

That’s Lake Norman Airpark 14-a? Very cool!

@TheRaptor1967 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks. You reinforced a few things to do with sails and showed me at least one thing I didn't know.

@carolinaanthoness9428 2 жыл бұрын

That was very informative thanks guy's. Love your channel. 💙💗

@mikeferguson2828 2 жыл бұрын

My original main on my Leopard was on there when I bought the boat and I sailed with it for another 6 years before some tearing started. I did 20 000nm with mine. My new sails are now in place and I do love the huge low friction rings used on the sails. I’m sure this will be easier on the sails over time. Can’t wait to start our Atlantic crossing in a few weeks to see them in action over a long period.

@TheOKellys 2 жыл бұрын

You're comin over!? Alright! Might share an anchorage afterall! Have a great trip!

@michaele8551 2 жыл бұрын

Amazing video. Thanks Guys. So informative, so balanced and great for the industry.

@MBdrummer3288 2 жыл бұрын

Very well done video. What a beautiful sail! I subbed!

@dr4109 2 жыл бұрын

Great content as always!! Love the look of your new main aside from the increased performance.

@summersands8105 2 жыл бұрын

This is an awesomely informative video. Thank you for sharing.

@jackelin1981 2 жыл бұрын

Yes.... this is the kind of video I like... real information, straight to the point no fluff.... thank you!

@captainrehab2047 2 жыл бұрын

We just upgraded to a Hydranet Triradial mainsail on our Nautitech 441 and see a real improvement upwind. Less leeway and good speed!

@6800891 2 жыл бұрын

Yet another insightful course at O'Kelly University, weaving together concepts from many different disciplines. You could literally package all of your video explanations into a full semester worth of presentations.

@carsonc1272 2 жыл бұрын

Ultimately I watch sailing videos for episodes like this. Thanks for the knowledge bomb Nick

@HopeOfJoe 2 жыл бұрын

Nick. Just a fabulous short webinar on sails. 👍👏🏻

@kevinkurka8020 2 жыл бұрын

Wow great info on this video keep them coming !

@robertlaird6746 2 жыл бұрын

Man, that was an awesome video! I'm a former Naple Sabot, Laser, Tornado, Nacra 6.0 and Nacra 5.8 as well as many other boats that I've crewed on including Defender and Courageous (12 meter Americans Cup), TeVega 165 ft. gaff rigged schooner and Taxi Dancer. I also grew up in a junior racing sailing program from 7 or 8 years of age all the way through my senior year of high school. It honestly was the best time in my life. You taught me a few things that I didn't fully understand and explained it incredibly well. Thank you! I haven't been sailing in about 15 years but the last time I went was a race in Newport Beach, CA where I entered The Flight of the Laser's and was the first one to the first mark, the second to the second mark and ended up with a 6th place finish. I was really fast up wind but chocked on the down wind because of my weight. I was a little heavy at the time. This race if you know about it has hundreds of boats on the starting line at the same time for one race. I'm planning on getting a Schionning catamaran and taking it to the tropics because I miss sailing a lot and need to get back out on the water again.

@TheOKellys 2 жыл бұрын

Taxi Dancer! Wow! That’s pretty cool! Have seen photos of the Flight in Newport, but never in person. Really appreciate the kudos. It’s so hard to do tech vids because you can bore people with too much and bore them with too little. Hope that one met the mark….get it…? Lol thanks for the note

@aljina8807 2 жыл бұрын

Amazing video, learnt alot today... Keep doing what you guys are doing, making a soldier really happy... .

@williampace6021 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for a great video. Sure, sailboats are all about foils. I think the most common mistake people make with sails in replacing them is to go back and order sails from the loft the factory uses and order sails just like they had when new. In many cases what you get is a sail meant for the charter trade, presentable but not performance. Many people also shop for lowest cost sails. Both mistakes. Speaking with a sail designer and having sails made specifically for your boat and your style of sailing is money well spent, Dacron or laminate.

@TheOKellys 2 жыл бұрын

So very true. Great advice. We went back to Ullman, but made significant design changes.

@lionelfournier 2 жыл бұрын

Great video! And 👍👍 for the outro soundtrack

@MICHELDILLIONS 2 жыл бұрын

Hi , Nick and Megan , Thank you , long time for my answer , this video tells you why you will go to 100.000 Subscribers. Educational , Happy , Uplifting , Funny , Straightforward , Loving , and easily 20 minutes , without blinking i look at your videos with a smile on my face . Be Happy always , Love , See you , Enjoy 🙂😊

@TheOKellys 2 жыл бұрын

You are too kind Michel. Thank you. Really appreciate the kind words. Best to you as well!

@MICHELDILLIONS 2 жыл бұрын

@@TheOKellys Thank you.

@justinsellers9402 2 жыл бұрын

That was quite informative. Thank you!

@TheOtherClips 2 жыл бұрын

Love the technical video!

@bahaiwebsites 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for showing your info and the making of the sails. High tech and interesting.

@SailingBlownAway 2 жыл бұрын

Wow, this was incredibly educational. We had to stop the video many times to look things up and get our bearing! Thanks for always putting out vids that help us cruisers. We had NO idea that tacking performance was a "thing". I guess we need to start tacking! HA HA. Great job...as usual!

@mikebevers1606 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the sail video. Will be interested on how it holds up. Will you replace the headsail too?

@Nick-cr6bj 2 жыл бұрын

As usual time well spent listening to your educational videos. Thank you

@jamesmellish9844 Жыл бұрын

excellent points raised and well illustrated

@andyp91 Жыл бұрын

You guys are the best! always teaching me interesting details. Didn't know you're also a pilot Nick . Cool!

@hamiltonsny 2 жыл бұрын

Cool to see you still fly! We are in George Town with port engine problems...feeling envious of any vessel with sails at this point. That being said, I have been broken down in worse places!

@TheOKellys 2 жыл бұрын

Sorry to hear it! Hope you can find what you need there!

@hamiltonsny 2 жыл бұрын

@@TheOKellys Thanks, me too. It's our first time here and we are loving it ❤

@clifbradley 2 жыл бұрын

I've seen people down at the marina with sails so blown out they have sewn patches into the sails and run stringer lines to center points that tie to a free floating ring over a line. I don't know how they sail like that and honestly they probably don't and just use the motor to putt around the bay. My favorite is when people go to get on their boats after it's been sitting a long time snd they start raising the sails and rats or mice come tumbling down the sails, long streaks of rodent urine, poop and bedding material come flying out to cover the other boats.

@durwinmccarty9097 2 жыл бұрын

I enjoyed the tech side, retired Mechanical Engineer, glad you talked about how import sails are for cruisers, it’s their “engine”! Need to be taken care of and serviced, washed, dried regularly, in the sail bag, or folded and stored properly. If owners forked out serious funds for a main, they’d be more likely to take care of it. Fair winds⛵️😎

@Peter_Herrman 2 жыл бұрын

Good info, thanks Nick! We've got the "cruising laminate" ordered on our boat. Didn't realize how much lighter they are than the dacron. Lighter weight = faster! :o) Nice landing by the way!

@davidtydeman1434 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the clear explanation

@captainirv3542 Жыл бұрын

Great one Nick!!! This would Never be better explained. Was that a Piper at the beginning? Piper Cherokee was the 1st ever plane I flew! Loved it!!!

@TheOKellys Жыл бұрын

Well thank you! That there is a Bonanza. Lovely airplane. Personal favorite Piper is the Arrow II

@davidolson7575 2 жыл бұрын

Nick, Thanks again for an awesome presentation. Your bang on about Sails. Money spent now on great sail will provide you with big bonuses over the lifetime of the sail.

@TheOKellys 2 жыл бұрын

So true! They aren’t the tires, they are the engine!

@pleclerc1 2 жыл бұрын

Very informative video guys, nice work.

@TheOKellys 2 жыл бұрын

Merci!

@reubenlankshear1114 2 жыл бұрын

really informative... learn something every video

@AlexGoesSailing 2 жыл бұрын

Awesome video with great explanations!

@andrebauer576 2 жыл бұрын

I'd think about rolling up the sail canvas when going upwind... You're the only American channel left in my Abo's. Always some interesting stuff to hear about cats.

@dmorgan28 2 жыл бұрын

Great video. Very interesting. Thanks 👍👍👍❤️

@karynesteben6207 Жыл бұрын

Wow wow wow Nick, you both, what an informative video and + super montage, editing, music, details, artistic beginning, ending cool song, camera angles, descriptive arrows and words. I’m just a passionate catamaran sailor but I see way beyond your creative efforts to explain YOUR findings and YOUR passion (s) bravo bravo to the two of you, (I don’t know who comes up with ideas and who edits or who takes the time to construct the vision board but chapeau to all!) I’m happy, impressed, in awe and starstrucked as well !

@TheOKellys Жыл бұрын

Well thank you very much. We are enjoying the process and learning all the time!

@nonyayet1379 2 жыл бұрын

good stuff, as usual. thank you. what percent of increase in performance would you guestimate you achieved?

@SailingSVRose 2 жыл бұрын

Almost time for us to replace our sails. They certainly lose performance when they get soft. Love your videos, keep them coming!

@SaltyShaman 2 жыл бұрын

I wonder if a person could just make a stiffer sail out of dacron, maybe with an extra layer with stitching similar to how they do the laminate. It seems to me that is its main benefit, being a stiffer sail.

@drx1xym154 2 жыл бұрын

@@SaltyShaman - that would likely increase cost and weight - enough - even to reduce performance, yet maybe they last longer. The laminates seem like a better option - so long as they stay laminated longer.

@TheOKellys 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@fifiandmax 2 жыл бұрын

I've learnt far more from your channel than all the others put together. Thanks heaps

@TheOKellys 2 жыл бұрын

that's very kind of you to say. Glad we could provide some value

@Mike-ccu 2 жыл бұрын

Very informative and fascinating to know.

@Alsinsin 2 жыл бұрын

Very good documentary about aerodynamics and sails. Kudos.

@ThoughtfulWander 2 жыл бұрын

Nice flying!! 👍👍👊👊🛩🛩

@rickreid8149 2 жыл бұрын

great vid thanks for sharing

@Plantandpeoplecarer 2 жыл бұрын

Love your channel so much

@fastx1914 2 жыл бұрын

It will really be interesting to see how it holds up to the elements over time. UV is always a killer regardless... I like your comment on the sail and tradeoff between them. Good point, sales are really a wearing part and need to be replaced on a reoccurring plan like your engine example. So, more frequently with a sale that lasts only 1 to 2 seasons, or every 4 to 5 years with a more expensive version. (that is assuming your sale does not last longer) Also, would love to see you find another Leopard and see if they can follow you, and what issues you or they, run into. Great content! And yes, a certain sail maker should be sending you chocolate. And by chocolate I mean.....

@TheOKellys 2 жыл бұрын

Our previous laminate held shape for 7 seasons. This current dacron sail was good on Clarity for ....maybe 2-2.5. So....yeh, there is some math involved.

@petenaylor1353 2 жыл бұрын

Great job on the video Nick and Megan....so that's why you won the tacking race at Marsh, you had the secret weapon. The red track looks like my effort! lol

@TheOKellys 2 жыл бұрын

Lol. Valiant effort!

@HeidiandFranny 2 жыл бұрын

That's great Nick! How do the batons figure in? Do the laminate sails have very different batons? Are you finding your new sails take shape adjustments better than the old ones (twist and such). I would think the shape (and the flow attachments) is so important. Thanks for all that info! F

@TheOKellys 2 жыл бұрын

We used the same battens actually. Had to cut a couple a few inches. But yeh you are on the right track…the laminate is way more predictable when trimming. With the old sail, it was so much guesswork…in fact we’d often reduce sail just so we could get rid of the baggiest part. So frustrating!

@terrykeever3280 2 жыл бұрын

Really enjoy your balanced viewpoints. Learned a lot. Thanks.

@noahkohn9350 2 жыл бұрын

Love the Navy 44 at 4:30. Beat Army!

@UUBrahman 2 жыл бұрын

Nick's Master of Science in Climatology from U. of WI shone through here with clear explanations of complex subject matter. Thanks so much. Well done.

@TheOKellys 2 жыл бұрын

It's actually a Masters of Atmospheric and Oceanic Sciences. But yeh, UW-Madison....how'd you know that?

@UUBrahman 2 жыл бұрын

@@TheOKellys Oh, sorry I got your masters subject matter wrong and I appreciate the correction. Answer- you told us, I don't remember if it was video or a podcast. You're the best on weather. Thanks.

@TheOKellys 2 жыл бұрын

Ahhh, thanks. I will always be a weathergeek

@Early8Q 2 жыл бұрын

Excellent video! You have exposed that only those last few degrees are really only lost to the lift from the underwater appendage, which is probably caused mostly by mindset. I find it appropriate to mention that most live aboard mono hull sailers are also taking the same penalty, but don’t seem to honestly report it. I can imagine some ( more) trash talking already. Again, well done!

@TraneFrancks 2 жыл бұрын

Excellent video, guys.

@STRUTZKOFF 2 жыл бұрын

yea good point ,, my little cat the main is 15 years old and definitely blown out, i should get a new one ! luckily my mast is only 30 foot tall !

@joeldelamirande5792 2 жыл бұрын

Thks nick I always wondered the different types of materials I wish someone can explain all types of materials I need sails too on old to new to me sailboat C&C 30

@Richoshay1 Жыл бұрын

I noticed you guys are from Portland Oregon, we are also from Oregon. I've been trying to find a good local boat to go out on and get some experience sailing. We want to start a ourney of our own living full time on a boat.

@davidfrost1428 2 жыл бұрын

Excellent, thanks

@derkhawkins2575 2 жыл бұрын

So, one gets what one pays for. Oh, and I love the general aviation comparison. It was very well presented. Go well.

@donhamblen8060 2 жыл бұрын

Great video! Really enjoyed it and found it to be very informative. Nice landing, too! We're looking for a weather window South next week crossing to Clearwater Beach, then Key West and the Bahamas on Partager.

@TheOKellys 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Don, appreciate that. Have a safe trip! Windy windy!

@donhamblen8060 2 жыл бұрын

@@TheOKellys We're waiting until Saturday to let the seas lay down after the next front on Thursday. Should be sporty beam reaching (NE winds) from Pensacola to Clearwater Beach. 😎 Also joined a partnership on a Commanche 250 at 82J, about 10 minutes from our house. Life is good!

@TheOKellys 2 жыл бұрын

Cool plane! Congrats! Life is good indeed.

@celesdocofficial7816 2 жыл бұрын

Really much better the catamaran than mono hul boat. And i am dreamin to have a catamaran for sailing around the world someday. Watching from naic cavite. Philippines.

@LawrenceBroussard 2 жыл бұрын

Always something to learn to make better decisions for your own personal goals!

@andrebauer576 Жыл бұрын

One might say, the Laminate Sail is also more environmental friendly but that's wrong. Dacron is a fibre with no glue, Laminate Sails can't be recycled as the glue can't be separated from the fibres. That's a thing also to consider.

@richardmorholt1175 2 жыл бұрын

THANK YOU.

@shainester 2 жыл бұрын

I'll be sailing in the next few years and maybe catch up with you all out there. As a pretty bright guy with zero sailing experience right now, the performance aspect was, admittedly over my head. Lol! I'm sure the current or prior sailors were able to follow along though. I'll shelve this episode and watch again after sailing for a year or so and re watch then so it will make more sense. I plan to do that with many of your vids as they're GREAT sources of info. The best!

@TheOKellys 2 жыл бұрын

Sorry about that. Tried to keep it relatable. Bottom line is that the sail on the boat is a wing and we need it to be shaped right if we want to sail well. And yet, catamarans are so hard on sails…you gotta watch how fast they wear.

@shainester 2 жыл бұрын

@@TheOKellys No apology needed. More a reference to my lack of knowledge and experience. Nick gave a great explanation and I’m sure I’ll understand the video better when I’ve sailed a bit. 😉 Thanks for the reply.

@tonystewart7287 2 жыл бұрын

Good discussion Nick & nice landing for a PPL lol 😂

@gefginn3699 2 жыл бұрын

Great post my friend. I appreciate your balanced review. I Always Enjoy tuning in to your latest video. And, although music is not necessary for a great video.... when you add it in.... you have Fabulous Taste 👌 👏 👍 😍 🌴⛵🌞💚💛

@TheOKellys 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Gef. Really appreciate it. Put a lot of work into this one. Wanted to make sure it was useful and unbiased. Glad you liking the music, because I sure am!

@peterkingsman 2 жыл бұрын

Huh! I've watched two of O'Kelly videos now thanks to the algorithm, and thumbnail ect. Watched them the whole way through - 2 outta 2. Your nailing it. (though I disagree with some of your sail explaination in this one) Might have to subscribe! 👍

@tonygoodin5099 2 жыл бұрын

Never mind the sails, the music at the end was fantastic !!!

@TheOKellys 2 жыл бұрын

Well thank you

@kirkb3473 2 жыл бұрын

Great video, that new sail is gorgeous! So, with this new firsthand experience, if it ever comes time to replace Clarity are you sticking with a production type boat (with upgraded sails) and skipping the whole performance-oriented daggerboard catamaran?

@TheOKellys 2 жыл бұрын

Hmmm, interesting question. I'd like to go with a performance cat next time, if there is a next time. There aren't any production performance cats that I both really like AND could ever realistically afford, so I suppose yes, it would be a custom build, and I would go with both daggerboards and kick-up rudders. I might also go with a non-traditional cockpit. Great....now I am going to be designing a boat while I go to sleep tonight! LOL

@kirkb3473 2 жыл бұрын

@@TheOKellys Thanks for the reply, that's what I thought you'd say! Sorry for taking you down the rabbit hole of thinking about the perfect catamaran, it is such a series of compromises. I'd love to hear your opinion on power furling head sails and in-boom furling.

@IainMcClatchie 2 жыл бұрын

Drag on sailboats is dominated by induced drag, both of the sails and the hulls. With daggerboards, the induced drag is very roughly equal between the two. Without daggerboards, the induced drag of the hulls will totally dominate. Cruising cats get their bad reputations because * many don't have daggerboards or don't drop them when they should, and * there's so much clearance between the sails and the ocean surface that, combined with maximum AoA at the bottom of the sail, you get a huge vortex off the bottom of the sail. The first problem is that the "span" of your hull in the water is the depth, which is tiny, maybe 80 cm. Induced drag is (lift/span)^2/dynamic pressure/e/pi. e and pi are constants, so forget about them. A daggerboard that extends just 160 cm further into the water cuts induced drag by a factor of 9. You'll do better than just sail with a smaller leeway angle... you'll sail faster too. The second problem is why jibs and head sails do so well compared to main sails... they have less of a gap to the ocean surface, so less wind is able to slip under the bottom of the sail. Jibs will often be in actual contact with the deck several meters back from the stay. Mains have a hard boom which has to clear a roof as well as anything above it, like Clarity's raised helm roof, so lots of gap.

@TheOKellys 2 жыл бұрын

Hmmmm, I know a fair bit about fluid dynamics. I think you mean parasitic drag dominates.

@IainMcClatchie 2 жыл бұрын

@@TheOKellys Oh cool you're a meteorologist! The Reynold's number for a 46 foot boat in 68 F water at 8 knots is 57 million. Momentum totally dominates viscosity, right? Let me calculate it out for your boat. I'm going to guess 8 knots boat speed (8500 Pa dynamic pressure) in 13 knots of wind (27 Pa dynamic pressure), apparent angle 30 degrees off the bow. Hopefully that's close enough. Your 46 Leopard has around 1000 feet^2 of sail area. It's got a fair bit of camber, I'll guess you can get a lift coefficient of 1.5 out of it. In 13 knots of wind that's 3200 N of lift. That's 1600 N of surge and 2800 N of sway just from lift. Total sway is actually 3200 N because you pick up almost 400 N from the induced drag off the sail, and there's probably a bit more off the hull that I haven't counted. All that sway has to be reacted with the keel. Your keel is 135 cm draft (I looked it up), which is a lot more than I'd guessed, so now comes the part where I look dumb. 260 N of induced drag of the keel, 16% of thrust. Induced drag off the sail is 745 N, 645 N of which is boat drag, 40% of thrust. I guessed 18 m span and e=0.5 because the span loading is so asymmetrical. At 56% of thrust, induced drag is a tiny bit bigger than parasitic drag. I hadn't realized your keel was that big. With such a large Reynold's number, I wonder where the rest of your drag is. Is it base drag off the tail? It's hard to eyeball how much area below the waterline you have exposed at the back.

@IainMcClatchie 2 жыл бұрын

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/sKmgicl3qb_Kh3k.html Look at the mess coming off the bottom of the sails. Also, I was even more wrong. That hull induced drag number should be cut in half, because there's only one vortex off the bottom and nothing at the top. So 8% of thrust. Total induced drag is 48% of thrust and it's not even the majority of drag any more. Ooops.

@yachticus 2 жыл бұрын

that was probably the most even-handed review of sails I have seen across the interweb. One point - the value proposition for sails is that "value= initial purchase price over the time the sail will retain its shape " with the critical determinant being the ability of the cloth to retain its shape. - I don't think it will be too long before you think of doing the same with your headsail.

@TheOKellys 2 жыл бұрын

I know. And the jib is twisting off terribly. But to really put a better jib to use, we really need to do some hardware mods to get the sheet leads further up. I’ll chat with Ullman, see what ideas they might have