Very nice ideas of grandeur!

Jungle on music room 1 That would be awesome

@LD Blake Yes they were. Does this apply to ports too? Are front facing ports better for music then rear facing ports?

Dang bro! Never even heard of that company before, and I'm no noob either. Thanks for turning me on to them. I like what I see. Don't know if I'll pull off affording their speakers, or even if I should want to, until I read further. But thank you regardless. I always really appreciate finding out about new gear, and that's much more my style than most new gear. So again. Thank you very much. And I hope you have a great week. God Bless!

Hey no prob pal. Ya they make some seriously high performing stuff! A company for whom you can trust their specs. Cheers pal 👍🏻

@@jarodreddig63 Thanks again my man. My life is a busy mess right now. But at some point in the next few days, I'm going to look into their stuff some more. I'm so excited to find a company like this. I really love this type of gear. Mainly because I love lower powered tube amps. And find that they sound amazing with high efficiency horn speakers. I love my Klipsch, but have been wanting to hear Zu, and Tekton. And now these too. 😉 Have a great day. 😊

You sure have the gift of expressing your self with knowledgeable content. I enjoyed that very much, thanks. Brian

(Asjley Bloor) If you make a crossover for a speaker then a crossover coil or capacitor in series had -3db at the crossover frequency if I remember correctly. -6db is a lot. In many cases, there is the crossover inside a sub speaker that is not so good! Also amplifier that is not powerful enough

REL is horribly overpriced for its performance. Look at Rythmik, HSU, SVS, Monoprice/Monolith, PowerSoundAudio, and JTR.

She's here. Janina Palmer. She's mentioned "floating the image"

Gillege we you need to build a second sub and put it on The opposite wall.t

@Poserwannabe, are you ready for some big snow?

@@SJMessinwithBoats Always !! I've got several 4x4's 👍

Maybe you can get some ramming in with LD this weekend and have a shielded good time?

bang zoom rel sho 3 or 5

@@MrLmp2109 Thanks...it appears the REL's are even more expensive than the AVI sub...I think.

@@bangzoom8180 I can attest to the s5 sho. It's very quick to start and stop. No muddiness at all and sounds very musical. One of the best buys I have done for 2 channel listening.

@@Badazz08 thanks Sam... cost might be a factor for me..

@@bangzoom8180 I understand that trust me. I do also have a t9 from rel. That is helping my center channel achieve what it couldn't do as far as the lower frequencies. It also sounds darn good. But if u still can't go that expensive then maybe the ht 12 from them. U can't beat that price.

Paul Golub yeh carbon is pretty expensive, not heard it but at that price the rest of the system needs to be on par

Paul Golub I havve a pair of SB 16 Ultras. The phone app is awesome! Check out Dr. Floyd Tiol’s guidance for placement.

I'm not sure many people have the living arrangements to actually get to experience subs to their potential, if you do you're very lucky, I don't have that privilege. I barely get to listen to my tower speakers at a decent volume. I'd have to go live on a farm or in the bush

Crazy prayingmantis I am sorry about you’re living situation. I am fortunate to have a large man cave in my basement. But I would love to live in the bush again at least one particular kind of bush!

@@jimolson9671 Don't be sorry, I live in the most beautiful place on earth. I just have a close boundary fence and a neighbour. No offense, but I wouldn't swap where I lived for the best stereo system in the most soundproof room in the world and I really really really love music and good sound.

Some benefits: * Less localizable * More neutral response * More even response for multi-seat rooms like living rooms * More output or deeper output, depending if you equalize or not. * The subs are less strained than using one 1 sub.

Stereo Junky Well, the less localizability doesn’t mean you’ll have stereo bass, but it will be better than localizing it from one sub.

Showing off the accelerometer.

I don't know if it is the "best" way, but I use a Dynaco SA 230 subwoofer amplifier, which allows control over the gain, crossover frequency and phase angle. Speaker output is routed through the subwoofer amplifier and then to the speakers and there is an output jack for the subwoofer(s). It seems to work well for me.

Paul has previously recommended using the output from your amp to go to your subwoofers speaker level inputs to better match the system

thanks , which output do you think?@@jdekong3945

it depends on your sub, most good subs accept an input from a dedicated subwoofer out plug on a receiver & also accept signals from the output jacks of your main amplifier, you will need to wire normal speaker wires piggy backed off your main amplifiers speaker output jacks to the speaker level in jacks of your subwoofer. If you`re still not sure, let me know the make/model of your subwoofer & amplifier

doyle wayne i use the same output binding posts as my speakers are plugged in on my power amps

Some💔 manufacture💔 makes💔 this 💔back 💔to 💔back 💔setup 💔or i💔s 💔that 💔acoustic💔 engineering💔 theory?💕

Stereo Junky ~ its a matter or physics .. the two drivers are in phase of course but being placed back to back all the forces exerted in the cabinet are mulled out. This arrangement of speakers is a dipole in essence and the front and back signals will add ... BUT one thing to note here is that placement and rotational position is very critical..!

I'm lost on that, 💜There's words in there that makes it difficult to get what your saying❤. Do you have a link to some more info? 💛or maybe send me a drawing at my email? ❤ 💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙windsurfingnny@gmail.com 💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙

This is called an isobarik speaker setup, and what it essentially does is simulate a twice as stiff speaker with a twice as heavy cone, so halves the vas of the driver, making it more suitable in a smaller enclosure, at the trade-off of efficiency. The theory is the rear driver is squeezing a small volume of air, though at the same time reducing pressure behind the first driver, so it moves more freely. Linn make Isobarik speakers, I have a pair, go down low distortion free, to about 35Hz for a pair of 8's. Just image search isobarik speaker and you'll get the idea

Dearest Janina, I Do Want Pure Musical.💙 Here's the deal 💘, First, 💜I have seen this which you speak of.💛 Jamo SW1 that is here. ❤ Just didn't know what you called it.😉 Second 💘, No much mulla in the till so❤ I Wantz You 💘 to help me maybe, with your consideration, as I have 10 brand new Peerless 5.25 that I feel with them having their own amp channel @,💗 of them, they might be. Beautiful, quick, stylish, powerful, impacting, practical, highly educated, sharp minded, and any other description that would include how I feel about your exsistance.💛💙💜 Anyway, with all that out of the way, I think I can get 4 pairs out of the deal. ❤💚💜💙 Do you see any typo errors in that beautiful poetry designed to impress you?💕

Größte Stärksten how do you find the ht range? Ive got s3 sho but not used for theatre

@@MrLmp2109 Its a new line, Rel had them on sale during the holidays for 599!

Größte Stärksten thats pretty good for a rel, its £700 listed at the moment, on paper seems similar to the sho s3, roughtly same size but around 1/2 the weight which is a bit odd. That & the price dufference

sudd I disagree with your assessment of SVS . I have 2 SB16 Ultras. They have 8 inch voice coil‘s! They are remarkably quick for such large subs. They are very musical. I set my crossovers at 40 Hz. I cannot tell they are in the room!

if there are reviews comparing other subs to svs ultra sealed subs they don't win if they have some real competition. not bad value but there are more accurate subs out there, svs main focus is not on sound quality only. that is my point.

sudd I would rather have two SB16’s forr $3500 with retired military discount, than 1 REL or JL for >$4000!

LD Blake I agree! I have very good speakers,, KEF reference 3. I set my low pass filter for40 hz people don’t know I have subs until I turned them off. Then they are amazed when I turn them off!

i rather buy quality first, and svs is not on my list of quality subs, if you want a hybrid cinema sub then svs does the job, but don't call svs the best sounding subwoofer because that is a lie.

That sub goes well with those speakers because it's a small sub made to accompany small bookshelf speakers. If you had big floorstanders then that sub would not fit, it would either not be useful at all or bloat certain midbass frequencies. If your speakers would have 6.5 or 8" woofers then definitely you would have needed a sub with 10 or preferably 12" driver.

@@soring5880 I think you have hit the nail on the head there sir. FYI, they generally pair it for home cinema with Dali floorstanders but they only tend to have 6-8 inch mid-bass drivers. Good points. Well made. I suppose my contention was with "any good sub will do" when I think that there are horses for courses.

The "tightness" and accuracy of the subwoofer is what is important to me for music. It seems like popular opinion is that a sealed sub will do this better, but there are "good" ported subwoofers that are tight and accurate. My experience lies with 2 different 12" subwoofers, a $300 BIC Acoustec PL-200 and a $539 HSU VTF-2 MK-5. If I knew what the HSU could do prior to buying the PL-200, I would never have wasted my money on it. The PL-200 is merely a "rumble box" and the company has terrible Warranty support. I moved the PL-200 to my Stereo integrated amp with ELAC Debut 2.0 B6 Bookshelves and I just turn the Subwoofer completely off because all it does is muddy up my sound (even for movies). The HSU VTF-2 on the other hand kicks major @$$ in every way! Low frequency down to 18Hz and is extremely musical and accurate. You can also tune it to your desired result/sound. VTF stands for Variable Tuning that makes it possible to run completely sealed, one port open or two ports open. It also has a Q adjustment that allows you to adjust the tightness. It probably equates to owning 5 different subwoofers in one for all of the different settings you can make. I ended up settling on both ports open in favor of high impact effects for movies and it still sounds great for music. They say you get the lowest frequency extension with 1 port open. Can't recommend HSU enough. For my ELAC bookshelves I want to get an SVS sealed Subwoofer for it's compact size and what I understand to be musical tightness and a 45 day trial period in your home. Probably just the cheaper SB-1000, or maybe SB-2000.

@@brenmangood Mine is ported, so is their 12" model. That may contribute to why I found it too heavy. I am currently looking to upgrade (aren't we all?). I'm leaning towards Monitor Audio Silver 300 floor standers and their 12" subwoofer. I'm struggling to find an in-home demo of that setup though and I suspect it might be wasted on me as I live in an apartment block. It's a very well built block so I can have the music at decent listening volumes with my current setup.

@Ralph, I also own a pair of Q Acoustics 3020 bookshelves and use them in my bedroom and love them. Connected to my small S.M.S.L Q5 Pro Stereo Amplifier. It gives me a surprising amount of bass in my small room.

You’ve only heard poor/cheap large subs then. I can find 18” audiophile worth subs that are just as tight/fast as an 8” or 10” one. It’s all about how well it is designed.

need more resolve to hear the difference from what I'm hearing.

@@SJMessinwithBoats Any decent sub will do the job resolve does not apply to bass as it's not directional. Take your pick at these! SVS.. JL Audio.. Paradigm.. JTR.. Velodyne.. All these will deliver.. REL is just being promoted here by Paul any of the above with give equal performance if not better.

@cp07....the cable the cables you need an IRSV with 200 tweeters, then you have test equipment for cables!

Craig Flowers sorry to hear about your brother. The drug epidemic is fucking horrible thing!

Jeezus. Is it really *that* bad for you? I came here for the content of the words, and the expressions while saying them.

Danny Woods Watching it on the big TV in the living room. Yes, it is that bad. Beyond distracting.

If you recorded a silent room(like a recording studio) on a full range system it would play silent. And if you recorded a classic guitar, or flute, you'd get whatever was recorded. Things like how the flute sound interacted with the room, especially if it was a large space. -> insert instrument here and get the same explanation. People usually aren't aware of what low frequency information there is in the world until they can take it out and put it back in again.

Mark : No.. I find the more you lack in the lowest notes makes you want to compensate (turning up) the bass where you do have it.. (not good).. In terms of the physics of a speaker: A speaker that is good at going very low will naturally sacrifice efficiency, or the ‘tight/snap/control/higher frequencies’ of the driver... (2 of 3 is easy) Trying to fight the physics for all 3 well (deep, efficiency,control) is fought by over-building/gobs of money

sealed without ports for 2 channel systems

sealed is always best for any use. you don't want a ported for movies either, it makes everything sound the same and won't go as low.

Sealed, but that requires more power

I have diy sealed subwoofer, and its sound much better than $1000 speaker system I've heard

My opinion is that both can be musical if designed right. When I say designed right, I think it much, much harder for a MFG to get a ported one right. Also to me, the responsiveness, or speed or rhythm or pace of a sealed sub is more musical. In my audio system I only use sealed. In my HT I prefer the boat and slam of ported so exclusively use them for that. Plus I like the gentler roll off of a sealed system for music, I think it makes it easier to integrate it with higher end speakers for music playback.

Or maybe Bwahston.

Marcus M you are a very wise young man!

@@jimolson9671 Thank you, it doesn't feel like it.

@Marcus I'm 57 so I'm living in 2 different worlds. I have 11, 12, 14 year old children. The oldest has nice wired Sony Monitor headphones but choses Dollar store BT headphones $12 USD because they have sd card slot. 12 year old is BT earbuds 11 year old doesn't care. So yeah I can see that convience is good enough. Plus they don't need to play loud like my older generation craves. hmm.

Stereo Junky I i’m 64. I have teenage grandkids. My 15-year-old grandson doesn’t care about quality. My 13-year-old granddaughter is the audio file.

@Jim Olson. ah but here's the twist. I haven't exposed them to the hi side... I've been waiting... Letting them find their own way. And yes its convienance. The first born occasionally experienced the Sony headphones early on. Then a couple years ago I bought him the (same)mdr-v6 for Christmas. He latched on to those, took them to school, (they have to have something these days at school, required) the bag got "lost" and he loves them so much that he didn't want loose them at school so he got a $12 dollar store BT pair with a sd card slot. He is 2 grades ahead in math and honor roll for years and years. He still uses the Sony's wired into the ps4 controller and hes the champ. But, since I have been studying here at the Paul's Causual College Class, I have made some improvements to my design and I believe that in the end I'm looking at a family of audiphilles. Just not the 120db type.

Hi, can a person just buy this driver? if so, its about 200 us or less?

@@SJMessinwithBoats I don't believe so but they do come up on ebay all the time. This is the driver that was used in the famous and histrical Altec-Lansing Home Consumer A7 speaker system and tons of movie theater installs. There are a good selection of speaker rebuilder/reconers who will make an old one new.

Altec built a bazillion of these things and they got used on lots of speaker systems

I once heard a pair of A7's in someones home once. A long time ago far far away. LP's and tube electronics. 100DB+++ no problem.

Is this the driver used from like the 60's to the 80's in movie theaters all over? I think I had this conversation with another gentleman not too long ago. Its got a foam surround?

I have 2 SB16 Ultras. They have 8 inch Voice coil‘s! They are very quick for subs this large. They are very musical too! I set the low pass crossover for40 Hz. They disappear! Until you turn them off!

Great info!

I've found some very reasonable priced subs that sound incredibly musical, and had many people ask if I even had a sub, or not. But this was in my car audio setup. Really have not played with subs in my home yet. But even a cheap Polk Db series, 12 inch sub, in a factory Polk slot ported box that's about 1.5 cubic feet, powered by the sub channel of my PPI 900.5 amp. It's a class D, and the sub channel claims 440, or 460 (honestly forget) at 2 Ohm, and that's what my sub is, 2 ohm. So it's got plenty of power to keep up with my 75 watt separates. Turn it down, and blend it in correctly, and you just hear almost full range without noticing the sub. And that's what you want right? So okay. I get it. A car is not a room, but it seems to me that you spending a decent amount of time to make it all work good together is very important, and maybe just buy stuff in the same price range, and work at it. Might even need room treatments I assume too. That makes sense to me anyway. I think when I finally buy a sub. I'm just going to spend a lot of time learning about, and setting it all up. And I'll buy one that is about the same level as the rest of my HiFi. Or at least no better then like a REL, or maybe a Rythmik Servo type sub in the $500-$750 range. Can't see spending more then that, and even that's pushing it IMO. Bur I'm just at an "I really enjoy good music" stage. I'll never be that radical audiophile who's never happy. I'm always happy anyway. 🤗 😜 💩 Or at least I always have a shit eating grin on my face anyway. 🤣🤣🤣

You obviously have heard a subwoofer from Rythmik or HSU then. SVS are solid but not the best for the price (especially the ones with a digital display and remote control smartphone apps) and PowerSoundAudio is supposed to be solid as well.

Your opinion is essential.