PWR BTTM - The Rise and Fall

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PWR BTTM - The Rise and Fall

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PWR BTTM - The Rise and Fall
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► Twitter: / camerahat
► Snapchat: matesclub
► Instagram: / bracelegs
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► Video/Music/Photo sources: pastebin.com/s...
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Thumbnail photo: Ebru Yildiz
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On May 3rd, 2017, Vice dot com published an article titled: “PWR BTTM: America’s Next Great Rock Band”. The article’s cover photo was alluring, with a high quality photo depicting two musicians gazing into the camera - Ben Hopkins and Liv Bruce.
The article read: “Every buzzy "it" band of the week is playing off of something…The Laurel Canyon singer/songwriters, the post-punk of The Fall and Joy Division, the nonchalance of 90s darlings like Pavement or whatever.
But PWR BTTM is playing themselves.” However, these praises were, at best, short-lived. On May 16, 2017, just two weeks later… An article titled: “Last week, PWR BTTM was the Next Big Thing in punk. Now the band is in ruins, and fans are reeling” appeared on the internet.
So who was PWR BTTM, and how did they lose their next-big-thing status in a matter of weeks?
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Hey my mates, just wanted to say thank you for your patience between uploads. I know I don't have a set schedule or anything like that, so I deeply appreciate all of you who keep coming back and watching what I make. It straight up warms my heart. -Nate

Пікірлер: 214

@NateTheMateForever 3 жыл бұрын

Hope you’ve all been well. Let me know what you think of the video. Twitter: camerahat

@aethere.mp3190 3 жыл бұрын

Hey Nate, have you seen the new McCafferty stuff? I know what he did really destroyed his platform and with good reason but I think you should checklist it out, more specifically the song Isn’t it Beautiful, but his new 3 songs all have something special too them.

@SuperRat420 3 жыл бұрын

Like it or not, you can't hail your shows as a safe space and foster that environment, then act surprised when you're held to a standard.

@noneofyourbusiness1114 3 жыл бұрын

It's almost like everyone who preaches that is full of shit. You can only take care of yourself and you're a fool if you rely on anyone else too.

@TWHowl 2 жыл бұрын

Please. Led Zeppelin groomed 13 yr olds and got public head under the table at the Rainbow Room and are still understandably heralded as the gods of rock, meanwhile these dudes piss off a couple hookups, don’t get a chance to defend themselves, and get cancelled into oblivion without any nuanced/fair analysis at all. People make mistakes every day, and lines get blurred when sex, mental illness, immaturity, and celebrity worship are involved. It’s no surprise that one of the most imbalanced & judgmental communities is so eager to nail their own to a stake and light a match.

@ababilashari9970 Жыл бұрын

@@TWHowl yr saying led zep...should get away with it??

@perpetualebb 3 жыл бұрын

Man these videos are like a car crash. It sucks to see but you just can’t look away. Thanks for making this content man. It’s informative and unbiased which is awesome

@luc520 3 жыл бұрын

i remember when i started college i adored them and one day their albums just disappeared from my apple library. it weirded me out, so i looked them up, and found out what had happened. even though their music returned to the platform, i never got their stuff back in my library, oddly enough.

@josephdamato6516 3 жыл бұрын

Also, you might need to start pumping out these vids every day if you want to keep up with how often sexual abuse stuff happens in this scene. It's gotten so bad I just finished my last English final by analyzing the amount of misconduct in Pop Punk because Jesus christ this keeps getting out of hand. I will never stop listening to the music and will always love it, but it's just so disheartening when you hear about this all the time. Maybe Warped Tour ending had a silver lining, bands like FPS won't be able to have an easy source of manipulatable young fans.

@dtPlaythroughs 3 жыл бұрын

Most pop punk shows: Immature bros in bands that refuse to grow up and drink a lot with lots of female fans (many under age) that idolize them and often also party a lot. Not saying either of those are bad on their own but I can see how things can end up getting ugly with male band members taking advantage of younger fans. I was at a Modest Mouse show in 2004 where they had a manager scouting for young female fans to come back stage like they are a hair metal band. I can't say anything happened but it seemed sketchy as hell as the manager was like "NO DUDES!" I bet this stuff happens way more often than we think.

@slimshreder 3 жыл бұрын

@@dtPlaythroughs Ugh. This hurt my childhood reading this.

@SnailHatan 3 жыл бұрын

I really, highly doubt that it’s this scene which is particularly bad regarding these cases. It just seems like people jn this scene care more about it, and so bands end up actually having to deal with the fallout. You don’t hear Justin Bieber fans voicing concerns about his incredibly fucked up behavior at all. But this community doesn’t put up with that shit, and so it seems like more bands get in trouble for it, but it probably happens just as much as with any other types of bands.

@likearitual 2 жыл бұрын

You did that for your English final? Smh

@jamesdoctor8079 2 жыл бұрын

Not being a victim blamer, as I believe all cases of sexual assault and predation should be addressed and justice to any victims. That being said, the problem I see is that due process of law is not being respected. Anyone can make an allegation against anyone else, and essentially ruin someone’s career. Not every case of sexual assault is going to have a cut and dry story where the alleged assault victim is telling the truth. whether people want to admit it or not, everybody lies. It’s alarming that many of these cases of sexual assault in the music scene are never brought into an actual court of law where a defendant is innocent until proven guilty beyond the shadow of a doubt. Once again, I’m not discrediting any victims of sexual assault here but it is asinine that the twitter mob decides your career sometimes entirely based on allegations

@heathbenton6201 3 жыл бұрын

i loved their music and i was so pisssd when i first found out about all this

@cuteatech 3 жыл бұрын

same

@tracecraver33 3 жыл бұрын

Same and they just released their new album when all this shit went down. What a waste.

@antimusicmusicenjoyer 3 жыл бұрын

I mean you can still listen to them

@tracecraver33 3 жыл бұрын

@@antimusicmusicenjoyer For sure, but it doesn't hit the same.

@antimusicmusicenjoyer 3 жыл бұрын

@@tracecraver33 Yeah I know, sadly

@YTTopia 3 жыл бұрын

Nate. Don’t listen to the people telling you to stop. I appreciate what you are doing and informing me on who to avoid. I don’t see what you are doing as promoting, I see it as giving a caution to upcoming acts on what can happen and also warning the public.

@MrKrinkle1122 3 жыл бұрын

what a great guy he is!!! profiting off of real trauma

@mustardtoast8328 3 жыл бұрын

@@MrKrinkle1122 you can't just ignore everything that's bad in the world

@sparklepunkenthusiast 3 жыл бұрын

@Harry McNamara regardless of his intentions he is profiting off of these videos and he shouldn’t be

@spoonuwu3195 3 жыл бұрын

Yea exactly. If it wasn't for these videos I wouldn't have known to stop listening to mccafferty.

@YTTopia 3 жыл бұрын

@@sparklepunkenthusiast Ok so from now on no one can report another ones actions with consent form every single party invovled got it.

@willowgritzmaker409 3 жыл бұрын

I hate that this band was so special to so many people and they turned out to be so messed up :((

@yoogabbygabba 3 жыл бұрын

i know. i loved them and their music so much then found out what happened and couldnt view them or their music the same anymore. it was so disappointing. also, the pfp is amazing honestly

@HEARTMACHINEPLUSULTRA 3 жыл бұрын

I remember the tide of public opinion changing on PWR BTTM so fast, it was unreal at the time. The hype for this group was so big. If their next record had come out, they would have been huge.

@TheWhiteShadows13 3 жыл бұрын

It was out for a short time but got pulled pretty fast if I remember right. It was honestly shocking how quick things changed.

@BathBombTheRussians 2 жыл бұрын

Yeah Pageant is an amazing album!

@thrashville3876 3 жыл бұрын

Remember seeing a tiny desk set from these guys, never really heard too much about them, guess I'll find out

@daytonhunt2406 3 жыл бұрын

Same, they looked pretty good too, the acoustic tap rock was kinda cool

@herpaderpy888 3 жыл бұрын

This reminds me of GRLwood, which made me incredibly sad.

@jacobconfined4836 3 жыл бұрын

ive always found this story really weird. they were also just on the way to become so huge

@ClickHereForSex 2 жыл бұрын

I was a PWR BTTM fan (saw them live in London in 2017) and was so furious when I found out their whole schtick was an act. One thing I will say though is that they weren’t merely LGBT “allies”. They are both members of the community afaik and I think framing them as “allies” obscures the truth

@angiebuo287 3 жыл бұрын

I remember when I gave my friend an ugly cherries vinyl and a concert ticket for us to see them together for her birthday and I had to explain that news had just broke of what happened 😐. The show was canceled shortly after.

@lauren7563 3 жыл бұрын

I know many people will disagree with this but, I think this series is doing more good than bad. There has been a lot of younger people or just people in general getting into this type of music. There is A LOT of people giving bands like Mccafferty and Jank platforms on tiktok and hyping up their music. A lot of these people are younger and are unaware of the actions of those band members. I’ve seen people comment on those videos telling the person using their songs as sounds about the type of people who front those projects and why they shouldn’t be using that sound. The response to those comments I’ve seen is almost ALWAYS the person replying with something along the lines of “I didn’t know this thank you for telling me.” And yes this information already exists on the internet but a newer youtube video is more likely to reach the people that it needs to as opposed to a 2016 thread of reddit.

@shortbread1818 3 жыл бұрын

It really sickens me seeing people still supporting McCafferty and Jank (or Lou’s other projects) either out of ignorance or apathy for what wrong they’ve done. I’m glad these videos exist because hopefully they stop or slow that influx of support those problematic individuals still receive.

@antimusicmusicenjoyer 3 жыл бұрын

@@shortbread1818 well I still listen to mccafferty because they made great music. The fact that the author is a terrible person doesn't change the actual quality of the product.

@shortbread1818 3 жыл бұрын

@@antimusicmusicenjoyer I didn’t say it did. I said supporting abusers is wrong. You can listen by pirating the music or by some other means and not support them if you’re so inclined but I have personal issues with streaming and supporting abusers.

@kylehamilton6560 3 жыл бұрын

I do indeed disagree

@youthofyesterdayrecords 2 жыл бұрын

It DOES change the actual quality. Deception and a total lack of sincerity can and does poison a piece of art.

@busterdouglas593 3 жыл бұрын

I love this channel even though I'm not into DIY/post-punk, seems like a lot of drama in this scene but idk.

@imbadatguitar9288 3 жыл бұрын

unfortunately your right. for example, i was a really big fan of "McCafferty" for about a year. I loved their music and i wanted them to go to my area ( new england ) so I could see them!!!!!!!!!! then of course nick ( the singer ) got exposed as an abusive asshole.

@collinpizzo986 3 жыл бұрын

i was heartbroken by them when this happened. they were my comfort music my senior year and pageant is still such a close to home album but its so stained by ben

@mattyoutubes 2 жыл бұрын

Why? did you watch the video all the way to the end? I believe Ben's side of the story

@brandynkilpatrick 3 жыл бұрын

please keep these coming, loving the rise and fall series

@Azzamislegend 3 жыл бұрын

Bro you don’t know how much I needed this! Thank you!

@acedrawer91 Жыл бұрын

seems like not nearly enough ACTUAL evidence and a few peoples DMs…sad because i liked their music

@peytonschwitters1291 3 жыл бұрын

another great video mate. i can’t imagine how long it takes for each one of your videos to produce. always top quality

@chnalvr 3 жыл бұрын

Very interesting re-telling, Nate! Thanks for all the work that you put into your videos.

@pinklikdblue 3 жыл бұрын

If you let it be known you're a wolf, then you will attract the support of other wolves and the sheeps will stay away. If you say you're a sheep then you will attract the support of sheeps, and if you are exposed as a wolf in sheep's clothing then you will be more hated by the sheep than the wolf who made themself known.

@PeteWade 3 жыл бұрын

What if you're a badger who's friends with a wizard who prefers techno?

@slaythembeforeme Жыл бұрын

"Sheeps" lmao

@mroreoeater1353 3 жыл бұрын

Remember watching their tiny desk concert, loving em, then reading the comments and being a bit bummed out about what happened

@zedlarae 3 жыл бұрын

Man, I remember when all this happened. Crazy that this was already 5 years ago. I was so disappointed because I had only been listening to them for a couple months and I really liked their music.

@waluigihentai 3 жыл бұрын

hey would you ever do one of these videos about mindless self indulgence? its like an entire band of nick from mccafferty with some extra racism

@basedsouljah 2 жыл бұрын

Mindless is very protected by Gen X people that don't really care about cancel culture. I don't think anyone is going to care except the Homestuck tik tokers that sing Shut Me Up every morning.

@markdavidofficial4274 3 жыл бұрын

I remember seeing the tiny desk, listening to Ugly Cherries, loving them both, and then seeing the news. I still listened to pageant on KZfaq, but it was so depressing. It was just a really good band. Hell even my mom like them. I made excuses for them, saying the backlash was too severe, because I loved the music to much. However, I can’t do that now

@cassandrajames4541 3 жыл бұрын

I remember loving Ugly Cherries my freshman year of college and then being so confused when it got pulled from Spotify... and then pissed when I found out why

@josephdamato6516 3 жыл бұрын

NATE YOU ARE INDEED THE MATE

@xinthisdiaryx 3 жыл бұрын

I’m seeing a pattern with these woke bands and woke people. Like you said “saying one thing and doing another” seems to be an accurate description of a lot of woke people.

@starylize 3 жыл бұрын

yeah. this all reminds me of SWMRS’ branding and how they always have considered themselves work and feminists all the while lydia night expressed her relationship with their drummer where she was taken advantage of. the woke facade is all for show and it’s just pathetic.

@Space-Holiday 3 жыл бұрын

In these spaces I unfortunately often see a culture of people trying to bring down anyone who goes mainstream with their “wokeness”. Case and point KZfaqr ContraPoints, every time she posts a video, there will be a load of fake woke 13 year olds picking apart her videos for something they can post out of context and be angry about on Twitter. If you stand for something, best believe you’ll get a target on your head, from the people in yo audience, not just from right wing assholes

@SuperRat420 3 жыл бұрын

The common thread here is just men being shitty. Nothing to do with woke or not

@angrycrow9261 3 жыл бұрын

I lived with Ben when we both studied acting in London for a bit in 2012. They were a bit unusual, but literally years later they genuinely don't even know who made the accusations against them. I never knew them when they were at the height of their fame, but all I can say is that in 2012 they were probably one of the nicest people I knew, and their comments about the experience recently (like in 2020) warrant inclusion in the discussion. I remember talking about our time in high school, and even then they were like "I sucked in high school. I tried to be an edge lord, and it just wasn't me." That was when that swastika photo was from. Again, I understand people's impulses. But I knew them, and I genuinely worry that this might be an example of safe spaces destroying themselves. I don't know. 0.02 cents. Maybe I'm too close to it.

@dumpstercub2902 3 жыл бұрын

Pwr Bttm fills me with so much genuine resentment. I’m so glad you made a video about this

@thisislina3971 3 жыл бұрын

I'm sorry if it sounds rude but you didn't say anything about ben's response in 2020 i dunno man i don't think it's so black and white

@chill_octopus_8553 3 жыл бұрын

love the way you hype them up the first half of the video then destroy all that in the end

@FeyerMusic 3 жыл бұрын

I went to college with both of them. Ben always had this vibe that made a lot of people uncomfortable.

@PeteWade 3 жыл бұрын

In what way?

@oonabuckley5436 3 жыл бұрын

please make a rise and fall for sorority noise!! love the content!

@mrfarenheit0323 Жыл бұрын

The speed of their cancellation was unreal. I had tickets to a show and next thing I know I was getting a refund.

@collinpizzo986 3 жыл бұрын

ben is now making music again. they did a recent interview about everything that happened. the album is pretty good ngl, but what they did really taints it

@autumnmandera1948 3 жыл бұрын

Christ, they meant so much to me and I was crushed. Thanks for making this.

@hotshitmags 3 жыл бұрын

earliest i’ve ever been ! keep up the dope work nate :)

@NateTheMateForever 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much!

@RemyMoonshine 3 жыл бұрын

An ex who I really didn’t talk to anymore reached out to send me their tiny desk concert like you’ll love this shit. I was obsessed with them and was crushed when this news dropped. I was so excited to see them and then everything was canceled.

@37trashpanda48 3 жыл бұрын

So we're the aligations proven or...

@PeteWade 3 жыл бұрын

Nope. Just an anonymous accusation. That seems good enough for some people. Facts and proof seem to be out of fadhion these days.

@globaljad-9286 3 жыл бұрын

Do an episode about teen suicide，i love them so much

@blueface 3 жыл бұрын

I suppose I can see people having issues with Nate’s “The Rise and Fall” series being as he’s getting some sort of compensation from it albeit pretty small given the size of his channel along with the niche genres he focuses on. Topics such as this are important to discuss and document as it not only provides awareness about the bad apples that can lurk in these communities but is also very well researched and put together. Topics such as these shouldn’t be swept under the rug and forgotten about, they’re important pieces of music history and he does a fantastic job at researching and covering the subjects from a neutral standpoint.

@sparklepunkenthusiast 3 жыл бұрын

Having a neutral standpoint on abuse is kinda fucked up

@blueface 3 жыл бұрын

@@sparklepunkenthusiast not saying he himself has a neutral standpoint but he presents all of his information from a neutral standpoint.

@blueface 3 жыл бұрын

@@sparklepunkenthusiast and before you come back and claim I have a neutral standpoint on this as well, I don’t. What Ben did was entirely fucked up and I haven’t supported nor listened to PWR BTTM or Ben since this happened. Which sucks because I loved their music but I’ve also thrown out other bands from my library in the past as well due to similar reasons. I just respect how Nate covers his research and I feel it’s important to do so in the way he does.

@NateTheMateForever 3 жыл бұрын

I don’t have a neutral viewpoint. But I do believe it’s important to present facts like these in a neutral manner and let the content speak for itself.

@JohnDoe-xf8ew 3 жыл бұрын

tb to when i bought a pwr bttm shirt only to learn about this and now just have it sitting at the bottom of my drawer

@sritter66 6 ай бұрын

I ran across them years ago on Tiny Desk Concerts and thought they were good. I didn't know they had a rise or a fall, though.

@livecoilarchive1458 2 жыл бұрын

I'd suggest making a followup video on this. The accusations against Ben were dropped.

@neilm.2482 11 ай бұрын

Were they? Do you have a source? I found their album on Spotify (the new one for their solo work) and it's incredible. I would love to not feel awful about it.

@stillfirebellows 3 жыл бұрын

Being at Bard probably didn’t help. I grew up in Hudson Valley NY and went to Bard parties in college. These were college campus run parties that had stocked bars, sex orgy tents and orange slices on hand for those on acid etc.

@rocketlaflare 3 жыл бұрын

Man I really just hope nothing like this comes out about TSSF 😢

@thegoat20066 3 жыл бұрын

Just bc someone has progressive values doesnt mean they arent a pos. Important thing to keep in mind

@biggabey993 3 жыл бұрын

Do you have any theories about why this happens so much? Especially in the indie rock scene? I don’t want to start any fights? Just asking for any opinions or ideas.

@milesr94 3 жыл бұрын

Please keep up these videos!!

@bdup159 3 жыл бұрын

Can you do a video on RVIVR ? Love their stuff but know absolutely nothing about them . They were recommended to me because of PWR BTTM - not that I am a fan but I was intrigued. Where as RVIVR I genuinly love the sound and intensity they have going on for the punk scene.

@crisisactor420 7 ай бұрын

I had an old friend over tonight and we were saying whatever happened to pwr bttm. Guess this answers it?

@Neatherhero 3 жыл бұрын

Yo, can u do a video ab Midwest Pen Pals? Sorta just want to hear someone talk ab a band everyone forgot

@dumpstercub2902 3 жыл бұрын

^^^^^ I love that band

@pacingtigersbv1786 3 жыл бұрын

I loved them so much. I felt like a dispointed father lol

@Iggysluckytonite 3 жыл бұрын

a true example of fuck around and find out

@alexlaycock5878 3 жыл бұрын

Oooooooh PWR BTTM damn I remeber seeing something about it

@thenateyoulove 3 жыл бұрын

Ooooooh here we go!

@niallmcsorley8544 3 жыл бұрын

Any chance for something about Ghost Mice?

@buggi__e6644 3 жыл бұрын

just found u recently and cant stop watching

@johnreid5814 2 ай бұрын

Maraschino cherries

@mypalewrists 3 жыл бұрын

I was supposed to see them in may of 2017 and I’m so disappointed I never got a chance to. I was so sad when all of this happened.

@Papamuddy 2 жыл бұрын

Wow that really sucks, I was enjoying their stuff so much.

@leemiera84 2 жыл бұрын

Ya not cool. But how many straight male music artists have done the same thing and still have record deals?

@MrDyskid2011 3 жыл бұрын

The last line was The internet doesn't forget yet Ben is on Instagram and making new music without Liv......... It's on Spotify under his name

@TheJfluffy 3 жыл бұрын

I remember finding PWR BTTM through theneedledrop's best & worst tracks of the week years back. Volksgeist also made a video about them during the downfall, which is now unlisted. My opinion on the band is overall nonexistent as I never got into listening to them at all. They seemed cool though and I really anticipated listening to Pageant. Would be a shame to witness an album becoming lost media due to the controversy. Best wishes to the victims and management

@cockroachcor3 9 ай бұрын

Still heart broken over this but I cannot support them ever again

@SCBLGamingFilm 3 жыл бұрын

dude you gotta do a video on the band merchant ships

@9OXI9 3 жыл бұрын

One of the bands that most have disappointed me

@hannerz777 2 жыл бұрын

i am ...just discovering this... wow.

@sparklepunkenthusiast 3 жыл бұрын

Nate do you get any permission from the people directly involved to talk about these stories

@loremcounty3289 3 жыл бұрын

Damn I didn’t know this I found them recently and like damn I can’t listen to them anymore

@dariohc6898 3 жыл бұрын

I don't believe it was 100% true

@snot482 3 жыл бұрын

you should do a video on buttertones cos their fall from rising was so chaotic

@rileygally2967 Ай бұрын

Can anyone explain how men doing drag is any different than someone doing exaggerated black face? Just seems offensive to real women no?

@accuser_of_the_brethren7816 11 ай бұрын

So..they created "safe spaces" for their fans in order to then use it as a hunting ground for predatory behavior..gross.

@james10890 3 жыл бұрын

Good video dude

@cadenwhite2764 3 жыл бұрын

Hey mate, awesome video! You should check out Fredo Disco, and maybe make a video on them. They have some pretty awesome music, but got screwed over by their record label and lost some of their music for a minute when they left.

@user-nx3du6xh9j 3 жыл бұрын

This makes me so sad I love I wanna boy it makes me so happy

@alix9921 3 жыл бұрын

👌

@Chrisxantixemox 3 жыл бұрын

Hot take: Musicians can make amazing music and still be ‘bad’ people. We all have our vices. These guys have talent and had a great shot. I’ll still listen to their songs.

@mondaymediaofficial 3 жыл бұрын

You should do a video on "Many Rooms". She just recently lost a bunch of her fans for her anti-semitic/ableist twitter rant, & that probably had something to do with why her label dropped her. Either way, she has an interesting story haha.

@DCComicsAndSomeOtherThings 3 жыл бұрын

Algo

@LEARSIKCIGAM Жыл бұрын

look at the term “canceled” in the dictionary you’ll see these dudes picture

@DaltonGoesSlow 3 жыл бұрын

Fuck I love this band

@cm5660 3 жыл бұрын

i feel like a video about s*mrs and what they did needs to be made because a ton of people still dont know what happened. its so fucked up

@fentshaggy 3 жыл бұрын

Damn I'm early.

@deadinside3398 3 жыл бұрын

oh, so that’s why i always skip their songs when they pop up on my daily mix :)

@dannyroach2741 3 жыл бұрын

IVE BEEN WAITIN FOR THIS ONE!! TURN IT UP!!!!

@Space-Holiday 3 жыл бұрын

Probably one of the most disappointing letdowns of all the bands you’ve covered. Answer My Text was an absolute anthem. Also Pageant is still available in the UK because it was distributed by Big Scary Monsters.

@JacksonTheEpic 3 жыл бұрын

Come on nathan the mathan I’m still waiting on that lostprophets video come on

@FabulousKilljoy 3 жыл бұрын

That would be WILD. I wonder if he’s avoiding that one on purpose.

@bradleyhukill3453 3 жыл бұрын

Yo nate what's ur Spotify?????????

@eliottsmith6908 3 жыл бұрын

I miss The Dresden Dolls

@fakeid1151 3 жыл бұрын

shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone

@emaheiwa8174 3 жыл бұрын

They didn't deserve this. The problem of having a toxic fanbase

@Kingofsweaters 2 жыл бұрын

This was such a fuckin bummer. Outstanding band, but so fucked

@whatischampion 3 жыл бұрын

Can't believe you're actually doing a video about them. I am a firm believer in sperating the art from the artist. I still listen to ugly cherrys all the fucking time and I want nothing more than to start a band that sounds even remotely like they did.