They are the smart ones

Which two were those

@@imtired3861Vaegon and Saera

They were all spares who found their own calling.

To be fair, Baelon died a year a year after Alysanne

Same with Vaegon Targaryen.

same here! really paints the clear picture that no one's perfect

Jaehaerys wasn't a terrible father, where is this bandwagon coming from?

@@thalmoragent9344 yeah he was great to many and bad to a few hes human

@@durrangodsgrief6503 Yeah, the only kid I truly think he messed up on was Daella. Aside from that, he did well enough with most of the other kids.

@@thalmoragent9344 he couldn't control his kids and aside from Aemon and Balon he wasn't really close to them, especially the girls. It's because of how tradionalist and tightfisted he was that most of his daughters lashed out at him. Alysanne for instance was more calm and understanding and didn't force the kids away just because they acted out. It was also pretty clear that Jaehaerys was sexist in F&B even towards his own daughters

That's kinda cute

So on this point, I’d like to add that maybe King J didn’t name a son after Viserys for an actual reason. His brother was tortured to death over… ten days? I would want to honor him, hence possibly Viserra, but he might not have wanted to remember the pain and anguish every time he looked at a child. Either that, or he’s truly the worst father AND brother.

And Viserra definitely had Visenya’s fire

It’s less that saera tried to claim a dragon she choose the worst possible timing to do so. Like she was in the middle of being punished his patience with her was through.

The only children who had Dragons were Aemon, Alyssa, and Baelon. Presumably because Aemon being the next monarch, Baelon being the spare, Alyssa marrying Baelon so the dragon stays in House Targaryen.

Only 3 of his children had dragons: Aemon, Baelon, and Alyssa. Too many dragons means too many nuclear dogs to keep track of. Aemon gets one cause he's the heir. Baelon gets one cause he's the spare. And Alyssa gets one because aside from being the eldest living daughter, she's not leaving the family due to marrying Baelon.

@@Borderose i’m a little confused at this comment, are you saying vaegon was denied a dragon? that didn’t seem the case to me, but it’s been a minute since i read f&b! it seemed jaehaerys had hopes he’d find interest in Targaryen Prince Things™️ and once he realized he’d never find interest in women enough to start a family or dragons/swordplay to protect the family/realm, he inquired if Vaegon may have the makings of a maester. i agree that not all the children were given dragons bc dangerous war machines, but i think it was only the girls like saera that were out right denied since their kids would not be Targaryens.

@@nicoleodeons Probably just wasn’t his style

Same, I do really hope we see him in season 2.

As a history teacher, I respect the William Henry Harrison rule.

Viserra really was Saera but she paid attention to Saera’s mistakes 💀🤣

@@TaeSunWooshould have paid attention while riding a horse 😂

@@rebeccabrooks3823 😭🤣 fair but in her defense she was blackout drunk and probably was also like f-it at that point about everything

True! Could be that Martin forgot, or maybe it wouldn’t even happen until Fire and Blood volume 2.

Would be interesting since he'd be in his 60's during the Dance of the Dragons

I think it would be funny if he just minded his own business until he died in The Citadel and refused to get involved in the shitstorm that was his family's succession crisis

​@@mikelcatalan4421 He and Saera really just got out of all the family drama and lived their own lives

Imagine him just chilling at the Citadel while his family kills each other

Still better than another Aegon

@@QuinnTheGM still a kick in the teeth if your brother was named after the awesome badass Conqueror, and you're more closely named after the dragon. A cool dragon, but still.

Fucked by skyler white?

I think Vaegon is neurodivergent/autistic, and I love him for that.

I relate to him, he is my favorite Targaryen.

I love how the first time he ever seems happy is when his dad kicks him out to Oldtown

Rhaena rhaenys and rhaenyra talking together

Regarding the arrows... The archers all are quite far away from Daemon and also high up on a cliff. It's already hard to hit a target from that distance, plus the height difference and complications like the wind. Plus Daemon was a quickly moving target. If you rewatch the scene, you'll see that Daemon actually gets hit the very moment he stays at one spot for a few seconds to kill a guy. I would't call this plot armor The grey scale thing is a little more tricky. It's never stated if it's transmittable by blood, only via touch. The left hand of the crab feeder, which is the only part of him we saw Daemon touching, is not covered in scales. I know this is a little of a reach but still plausible. Or he's one of the Targaryens with a buff immune system whereas Maegelle wasn't so lucky. Both works

​@@Max-oi4it That really doesn't work because neither of those concepts, whether we're talking transmission by blood OR Targaryens having enhanced immune systems, was introduced onscreen. So we can't assume it to be true. While we have some knowledge about greyscale from the main series, chronologically in universe HOTD comes first- so they should've addressed it all over again. Portraying it as the show did was sloppy. Not to mention proves how pointless giving the cf greyscale was in the first place. Not to mention, the CF's own men never interact with him, which implies they fear contracting the illness by getting too close to him. So to turn around and have someone touch him ungloved and end up covered with his guts with no concern for contraction or even a mention of the possibility afterwards is again sloppy.

@@ashleyofnaath yeah, you're definitely right there. I am agreeing with you that it doesn't make sense why they put that in knowing that the audience would recognise the grey scale and the implications with it. I'm just saying that it could make sense in universe. But yeah, you're right: it doesn't really work But what do you think about the arrow situation?

I really think they just gave him greyscale because they thought it looked cool. From my understanding it seems like the makeup/costume department made that decision and not the writers but who knows

Medieval archers aren't as accurate as you think, and Daemon did get hit 3 times even though he was running at full speed

I respect the difference of opinion and I’m glad you liked the video!

Why would having a dragon protect him from Greyscale?

@@mysteryjunkie9808 The bond between Dragon and Rider, for the most part, seems to add a "boost" to the health of both (most notably to the human, as far as we see). When Daenerys fell ill, Jaehaerys wanted her to be given a Dragon hatchling, which may have helped Aenys had issues as a kid but he got better when he was bonded with Quicksilver, and so on. It's not fool proof, I'm sure, but you could argue that, assuming it wasn't some oversight by the directors (which is totally possible), that the reason Daemon stayed healthy was due to his connection with Caraxes. The Bond that binds the 2 together by magic just seems to have a sort of "seal" in a way, if you can visualize it in your head. That's the way I've seen it, at least, so don't quote all I've said as fact.

I have been saying that since it aired, and I stg you are the first person I've seen to say it too, I feel like its so obvious

And this is also after he cut him so violently in half he got covered in his blood. Daemon ain’t the sharpest sword in the armory.

@@AK-tr6lo Lmao, facts 🤣

Yeah, he got ridiculously lucky. Even Valyrians with a good immune system compared to most, aren't immune to greater diseases like Greyscale.

@@thalmoragent9344 I’m no expert in blood splatter patterns, but the amount of blood he got on himself almost seemed like he tried to get covered in as much blood as possible.

@@AK-tr6lo Unless he fought even more people in the cave before Crabfeeder, in which I'd believe he just got covered in some "hack and slash" close quarters.

She was indeed forced to marry (very young too, she was 16!) but she choose lord Arryn bc he was kind to her, even thought he was twice her age, fat and bald 🧐

@@Valentinianist I mean, he wasn't a bad man tbh... not every princess needs to marry some prince charming, mate...

Daella was the only one that I argue Jaehaerys did wrong with. Other than that, others weren't his fault

That's right! Thanks

@@thalmoragent9344 I’m not criticizing her for choosing him or him for being kind, I’m criticizing Jaehaerys for forcing a 16 yr old to marry and I actually think her early death is partially caused by the fact she was so young and her husband was so old (after 40 sperm quality decreases significantly) plus it’s sketchy and seems fantasy fulfilling lol

It’s funny how women’s sexuality makes them selfish when Baratheon is literally a bastard Targaryen house. I wonder how that happened…

It's funny that the same andals like to forget this detail

The Targaryens don't follow Andal Law on purpose. If they followed Andal law they couldn't marry each other and should never be kings since they are all abominations born of incest. Andal laws are for vassals, the Royal Family follows its own laws.

@@jvbrodwell Jahaerys is not called the Counciliator for nothing. He was the one that made the compromise with the faith to keep incest but get rid of polygamy for the royals.

Not really, both Daemon and Corlys were gathering armies and lords to "defend the rights of their families" (Viserys and Rhaenys) Jaehaerys just decided to call the council to resolve the whole thing peacefully (it's rumored it was Vaegon's suggestion, since Jaehaerys called him short before that)

This is one of the smartest comments about this event I’ve ever seen, so many people seem to forget this, even though Jon reminds Cregan Karstark about it in the most recent book

I disagree with Jaeherys being a terrible father. He had a great relationship with most of his children and many of them turned out well, they simply met unfortunate ends. Out of ten (not counting the three who died in infancy), Jaeherys only had a notably bad relationship with two. Children are human beings who will eventually grow to make their own choices and decisions, sometimes in spite of what they have been taught. You can do absolutely everything "right" and still end up raising a little psychopath. I think Jaeherys and Alysanne get way too much flack as parents despite the fact that most of their kids grew up happily and healthily (only meeting unfortunate ends due to circumstances out of their control). Daenerys, Aemon and Baelon, Jaeherys was noted to have doted on and loved fiercely. Alyssa, despite exhibiting behaviors that were considered "inappropriate" for a woman in Westeros, was allowed to pursue her interests without protest. She became a dragon rider at 15, engaged in combat practice, was allowed to wear men's clothing and was well known to boast proudly about her and Baelon's sex life. Maegelle is the child who helped reconcile her parents after their two separation periods and Jaeherys was known to visit her while she worked as a Septa. Daella was the only daughter Jaeherys ever pressed into marriage, but only so she could have someone to take care of her. Daella was borderline illiterate, struggled to speak, had memory problems, was constantly anxious and was afraid of everything. She had a clear disability that prevented her from gaining vital life skills. She could not be a septa because she could not remember her prayers. She could not be a silent sister because the girl afraid of kittens, gardens and bees would most certainly be terrified of bodies. She could not hold her own in a position of power like Alysanne or Rhaena and was too afraid of dragons to become a rider. The only peaceable future Daella could have, with her severe disability, would be a calm life without royal expectations with someone who could take care of her. Jaeherys specified to Alysanne that he wanted Daella to have a gentle man who would love, cherish and protect her. Alysanne set Daella up with three options that would ensure she'd have wealth and comfort for the rest of her days. Of the three, Daella chose Rodrik Arryn and said that it was because, "he seems good and wise, like father". That is how Daella viewed Jaeherys; as a good and wise man whom she clearly was comfortable around. While not as close with him as with Alysanne, Daella clearly loved her father and vice versa. Vaegon was generally cold to everyone. But one of the few times he was mentioned to have smiled was when Jaeherys told him that Vaegon would be sent away to become a maester. Jaeherys did originally intend for Vaegon to be a dragon riding warrior as Aemon and Baelon were. Bur after seeing the boy's horrible attempts at drilling, Jaeherys decided to encourage Vaegon to pursue his hobbies even though he did not personally approve. It also worth noting that Jaeherys was always aware of his son's hobbies, despite having ten children (with Vaegon being the seventh). After Aemon and Baelon died, Jaeherys offered Vaegon the throne. Vaegon refused but did give his father council on how to proceed with the succession crisis. Viserra is an interesting case. She grew up vain and perhaps a little spoiled. But her relationship with her father was likely fine until he refused to put an end to the marriage that Alysanne had arranged for her. The only other notably poor relationship Jaeherys had was with Saera. The deranged child who thought tormenting her mentally ill sister (Daella) and the court fool was fun, was known to show up to lessons with her Septa drunk by 12, proudly compared herself to a notoriously cruel tyrant (Maegor) after scandalously sleeping around with three different lords, attempted to steal a dragon and then quite literally chose the hoe life. Personally, I think Saera was just as vain as Viserra was with the only difference being that Viserra had ambition (she wanted to be queen) while Saera was just a nymphomaniac.

@@emoneestep3244 wasn't expecting a storybook 😂 but nonetheless I agree. I think you said it best in exactly what I was getting at. Amazing job.

Yeah he's really hype on Saera...like objectively she did very stupid things for a princess even if you take the feminism angle. Alyssa was a much better example of a strong woman to me

@@Captain_Insano_nomercy yeah comparing herself to the guy who murdered her dad brothers isnt the best idea

@@Captain_Insano_nomercy yeah comparing herself to the guy who murdered her dad brothers isnt the best idea

@@Captain_Insano_nomercy Exactly. Saerra wasn't some "girlboss" like some proclaim. She was honestly the most messed up of his kids, honestly. That wasn't on Jaehaerys, that was on Saerra.

@@durrangodsgrief6503 I'm confuddled how anybody possibly thought old man Jaehaerys killing Stinger WASN'T a badass moment. One of the coolest scenes hands down

Vaegon was interested in politics at a very young age.

@@QuinnTheGM Vaegon heads are gonna love this

yeah, I can actually agree with this, mainly regarding Saera. People talk (with reason) about Robert Baratheon's "proclivities" (I mean, the guy was claiming undying and eternal love for Lyanna Stark while he fucked whores in Stoney Sept), but when Saera "gives her maidenhead" to all three of her lovers, than now it is acceptable and cool. And, well, according to Fire and Blood, Saera was wont to make cruel pranks, especially on Tom Turnip, which was described as being a simpleton.

Glad someone has said it 🙏. I absolutely agree with you. Though i suppose one point against i suppose is he clearly spoiled the younger ones. Which might show a lack having the same active role he played in his older kids upbringings

Bro I literally see you in every fucking HotD/Jaehaerys video saying how much of a whore Saera is, and deserves everything that happened to her, or how Rhaenyra is an evil, usurping witch that wanted to torture poor child Aemond. Do they pay you? What might be the reason otherwise mhmmm....

His attitudes about women’s roles pretty directly resulted in Gael’s fate, which I count as bad even by those standards

@@QuinnTheGM his attitudes were extremely common or normal by that societies standards though, I feel like you single him out as if he's the first and only Targ to ask his daughters to marry to strengthen the royal line

@@Captain_Insano_nomercy yes jaehaerys was not a terrible father he was a bad one but his reason for marring his daughters to lords is that he is the first one since the aneys(his father) to have a daughter

@@maulikjain48 my point stands that every single kid in the dynasty was forced to marry to strengthen the house minus the rare few like Egg's kids and look how that turned out

@@Captain_Insano_nomercy they full fledegly revolted expert for his daughter. duncan married jenny of oldstones jaehaerys continued targsest

Or, or or or… Vaegon convinces Daeron that going to war against Rhaenyra is the right move.

Happens in the real world too. Many kings had bad relationships with their kids even if they were good at the job George II, George III, and George V all immediately come to mind. Even Elizabeth II probably wasn’t the best mother.

From what I can tell... "girlboss" apparently.

Rest in Bees to two kings 😞🐝

That’ll be even more ranking based purely on how cool their name is

@@QuinnTheGM Rhaego and Visenya (daughter of Rhaenyra and Daemon) have interesting things about them besides names! I believe in your ability to make a list of dead babies entertaining! Come through king!

woah, why the strong feelings towards Alyssa Velaryon?

@@cipher48 She was the Alicent Hightower of her time, and Rogar Baratheon the Otto. They divided House Targaryen and ensured civil conflict by poisoning Aenys' sons against their uncle, Maegor the Wise. She abandoned Viserys both times she fled from court, and then she had Rhaena the Black Bride and her twins passed over in the succession of the Irone Throne. Alyssa Velaryon is a terrible person.

@@Jacaerys4life Can you elaborate further in regards to Maegor? cuz' the general consensus (which is basically the consensus in F&B) is that Maegor was indeed cruel and a usurper. I don't really know which one is true, so help me out here to see your point

@@Jacaerys4life Bro, what? Maegor chose to kill his nephew and take the Throne even though he wasn't in line for direct secession. And keep in mind, the girls were passed over in Succession while Aegon was still alive. Aenys would follow Aegon the Conqueror, and then Aenys' son would follow him as Heir Aegon the Conqueror was around and accepted this, and never has a woman overtaken her brother in Targaryen Succession. As for Viserys, we don't know how or why Alyssa left him, she may not have been able to save him without being caught. You think she left her son just because.... shits and giggles? Alyssane named her daughter after her mother, and while Alyssa wasn't some 100% flawless person, she's not some witch like you proclaim. Maegor damn near ended the Targaryen Line by killing Aegon the Uncrowned and Viserys as well. Had he killed Jaehaerys, and he himself died with no heirs, the main line of House Targaryen would've ended less than a century into their reigns. Maegor did very little good in his reign compared to being cruel. Whole realm went against him when Jaehaerys and his sisters got possession of their Dragons and the Targaryen artifacts

@@cipher48 Maegor a usurper? No, As the son of Visenya, Maegor was the rightful and true successor of Aegon the Conqueror by birthright. In Westeros the heirs of the first wife cannot be supplanted by those born from later second or third wives. In the ways of the valyrian dragon lords where polygamy was practiced the elder sister came first, and their father Aerion ensured they kept to the old ways. It is said Aegon married first Visenya for duty, and then Rhaenys for love. Sure this is a unique case as both Aegon's sisters were alive at the same time, and yes Aenys was born first by Rhaenys, but as soon as Maegor was born he was the true heir of the dragon. But for his unyielding love of the lost Rhaenys, the Conqueror chose to break succession customs / law, pass over Maegor, and keep Aenys as his heir. As a valyrian herself, Alyssa Velaryon knew this and she always despised Maegor for this fact. Aegon the Uncrowned was but a pretender, he would have never been able to claim the Iron Throne and the dynasty would have ended without Maegor the Wise. Many religious zealots wanted to exterminate the Targaryens and Aenys' family was extremely vulnerable with no able dragon riders to defend them. Visenya was elderly in her 70's, Rhaena pregnant / with new twins and far from Dreamfyre, Aegon Uncrowned and Viserys both dragonless, and Jaehaerys only a boy of 9 and Alysanne even younger. No, it was Maegor's responsibility to save House Targaryen, and he rightfully concluded that, as the dynasty was pretty much brand new, the scattered loyalist would only rally to the King. For their foes were the heads of the leading religion of Westeros! Had Aegon and joined his uncle against their true enemies from Oldtown, then he would have retained his position as heir to the throne, we know this because Aerea is made Maegor's heir after Aegon crashes Quicksilver upon the Black Dread like a fool. Together they could have secured the future of the dynasty and strengthened ties to other noble families. But no, crooked Rogar Baratheon and Alyssa Velaryon chose to sew chaos and ensure war by dividing the House of the Dragon. Alyssa passing down her malice for Maegor to her sons, especially Jaehaerys. Do not listen to this other commenter, he has previously admitted to not reading the books in other comments, maybe that has changed but it doesn't seem like it, but with Fire and Blood a surface level reading isn't getting you a clear picture whatsoever. So no, Maegor did not take out his nephews to claim the Iron Throne, he became king long before Aegon Uncrowned rebelled against him, Aegon was called a pretender and Aenys was called a tyrant before Maegor. Rhaena actually begged for Aegon not to fight Maegor, she even suggested going to Essos if Aegon couldn't live with Maegor being his king. Had Alyssa Velaryon remained at court and not abandoned Viserys, then he would would have never been in danger. Everything could have been avoided had Alyssa Velaryon not wanted power for herself, she ruled over her weak and indecisive husband, then her young son. ALL this anti Targaryen sentiment is just maester propaganda, that is the community consensus on Fire and Blood, the maester consensus is NOT to be taken as fact.

If you mean a cadet branch started by one son and one daughter, remember only three sons made it to adulthood and one refused to marry and became a maester. That leaves only the heir and the spare and when the heir unexpectedly died the spare had to take over and his kids became the main bloodline.

He didn't overlook every single self-destructive whim of his degenerate daughter, I guess

You’re correct, I must’ve gotten my infants mixed up.