This was all an elaborate ploy to kickstart my Azshara X Ragnaros fanfic

Travelling to the raid was the best bit tho. It just felt so epic, rolling out with 40 people, descending on the dungeon en masse, destroying any opposition players in your path. Sometimes you just ended up having massive pvp battles outside for shits n gigs

4:52 was brilliant, well done

*”preparation is a big part of Classic Wow”* *clears Molten Core in full green gear at lvl 58*

I'm genuinely impressed. We definitely need more videos comparing the differences between these versions of the game that doesn't boil down to "RETAIL BAD, RETAIL EZ, CLASSIC GOOD, CLASSIC THE BEST FOREVER"

"Those professor plumbs" - always appreciate a Jimmy reference

Platinum: "Best Gear" as he equips Druid T1 Druids: Pukes.

mobs in bfa dungeons have more mechanics than raid bosses in classic

8:39 "most scenarios" get it? because "cenario" okay bye

I just wish retail go back to individual class sets.

That was a clue reference to purple

You're quickly becoming my favourite WoW content creator on KZfaq. These edits are just so good and the videos are really entertaining

* unbiased * "YOU NEED TO HAVE 40 PEOPLE" * meanwhile in classic guilds are clearing raids with 20 people *

That was super non biased and well put. Agree with all of your points

Dude, your videos are amazing! A true work of art and information. Thanks!

as someone new to classic, id absolutely love some classic raid guides from you. Idk why but your content is just so much more digestable then other youtubers

If only he knew this when n'zoth was out in LFR

You are the type of channel I click like before watching the video.

"LFR is too easy" yet somehow people manage to wipe on the same boss 3 times in a row

Thanks for the video Plats. You always have a unique (good) way of showing your content and ideas. I also wanted to mention that WoD is an underdog. The music was/is inspiring and I liked the model upgrades, the scenery...*LoveSigh* Anyway, thank you for putting in music from WoD, made my inner nerdy happy ✌💜

Very well done, non-biased and on point, i agree with everything you've said.

I mean, you can't have your Ragnaro's cereal without that sweet Azshara Almond Milk.

Blackhand Sugoi Sugoi! Best Lovestory at the end! Made my day!

This is a great video, I think you pretty much capture the entire classic vs retail debate in a objective manner without coming off as biased. We all prefer different things and that's why we now have two different versions of WoW. The ending was great, keep up the good work!

After all these years Azshara finally found herself a man.

wow a non-biased video, that was pleasant to watch that ending was hilarious xD

Will you please continue your Dungeon Dive series with the end game dungeons!? Love your content dawg keep it up!!

I like retail for xmog and LFR, I don’t have to have a massive group to finish raids and thus parts of the story line. Also I like being able to customize my character to exactly what I think he/she should look like. I liked classic for the talent trees and the general good feeling of accomplishment that comes with finishing most quest and gaining every level.

You weren't biased at all, you said everything right.

wow your vids are really well narrated and edited

I love you so much that I don't skip ads

I don't even play WoW but your videos are interesting and entertaining even for those who don't have a very extensive knowledge about the game, keep it up dude!

6:50 just to clarify, you really can't heroic raid with 10 players. Many of the boss mechanics make it near impossible to do. It took almost 2 months for the first 10 man heroic ghuun kill because the mechanics dont scale down. Similar issue to Azshara.

my god ur editing is amazing

Finally a video that isn’t biased as hell towards classic. Good job 🤘

What an incredible and fair comparison, your video is so impressive

I feel like comparing MC to any raid isn't fair. MC is different then even the later raids of Vanilla such as AQ and NAXX. Yes they are both still simple in comparison to retail wow, the hints of future raids began there. Individual responsibility grew with each raid tier. It wasn't so big in retail since mechanics are simple but it was the building block.

PROFESSOR PLUMS thank you so much for including that

"I don't think I was potty trained yet!" *Looks down at myself today in only a t-shirt and a diaper* "Meh, after I kill Rag we can start that grind"

You’re the best platinum. Very much appreciate the balanced take.

A great breakdown of the pros and cons of both vanilla and retail! (3:00 convenient*)

your professor plum reference shot me back to being 13 years old and I had to find the story of jimmy again, jesus christ you can't just go running around unlocking memories

The Travel TO the raid was part of the experience... I liked it.

respect for the editing skill!

5:17 this is actually a very accurate representation of raiding in both, if they could somehow combine both of those concepts into one that feels good, raiding would be a lot better then it is now. Don’t get me wrong raiding now is good, but if they combined both of these it would be awesome!

10:19 - 10:38 cracked me up

Earned a sub for the MST3K like intro. P.S. you should do something on the same lines with PvP loved the video!

2/2/6 tends to suffer way more from boss scaling than benefit. Uldir was probably the best example for this as Zul would regularly have zerg groups on normal and heroic. having to handle all the mechanics on that with 10 people was just unnecessary trouble and punishing the less suited your raid comp was for it.

I remember this yesterday about N'zoth when I finally killed him. I haven't raided in classic yet but I seen my dad and guild do it. I think my life group wiped 10 or 9 times on N'zoth. Resulting in either 8 or 9 stacks of determination. Some of the wipes were because of ninja pullers. To me, LFR N'zoth felt to me like the time I did normal Eternal Palace for the first time. God that was hard. But we finally killed him... I'm never going back ever again.

*People saying loot is super easy to get in retail* *me sitting here only getting 1-2 pieces of gear from raids and dungeons a month*

What's the soundclip played over the heart at 10:33? It seems so familiar...

You can't do 10 man Heroic in retail since Legion unless you are overgeared, some bosses are just next to impossible, 12-15 players is the sweet spot. And loot is just a small reason to raid at least in retail, it's the gameplay and mechanics that are awesome, but I agree that the gearing/loot system in retail needs changes.

Great vid :)

that ragnaros in the beginning cracked me up!

Are you on Skeram? I feel like I recognize that guild name and some of the players.

I agree on your statement about about having definitive BiS raid items aswell. It's really cool getting those legendary items after much effort. Whereas in retail there are so many to choose from, it's really hard to tell sometimes which ones will benefit you the most (especially without simming, which i know a lot of casual raiders despise) and they're very diverse ( especially trinkets, weapons and any items with unique effects). BUT, there is a very solid point as to why that is how it is. it opens up various playstyles( imagine being a frost mage wanting to play a glacial spike build only to realize all the BiS gear has haste and crit on it, for example), adds solutions to different situations and overall makes items a lot more interesting and engaging (Except titanforging and socket procs, fk that rng).

Ya getting those epics in classic is really awesome. *Plays feral druid with 2 blue's being best in expansion*

hey man, been enjoying your videos quite a bit! Got a question for you - what tool are you using for Machinima stuff? Been googling and trying it for hours with 0 luck :/ Thanks!

Nice video and not very biased at all. Though I would say the biggest difference between loot back then and loot now is the abundance of choice compared to having limited gear to chose from with clear BiS.

Great video sire. Well done.

I want Platinum WoW to step on me.

What did I learn? That raid bosses can fall in love Oh and the differences between retail and classic in raiding xD

Yo! Am I the only one who really appreciated the casual Jimmy reference? That video was hilarious back in the day 😂😂😂

You've got mail. I mean a new comment. That AOL dial up killed me.

Good video, and lol @ the end. I'm personally a retail player. Tried Classic when it opened, played for a couple weeks, got a warlock to 42, and decided it wasn't for me. I'm mainly happy that this video wasn't just mindless retail bashing from a classic fan and that you emphasized the good points about both games. :)

still remember going into lich king raid, getting my first armour set on my death knight. I miss those days so much, though still have soft spot for wow I just find after lich king it got dumb down so much.

Good video. I do think a lot of people confuse time consuming and difficulty.

9:20 Haha thats so true! Have no idea what my retail gear is called. Heck I dont even know what it looks like. I can name most of my transmog set but thats because my mog is vanilla flavour. In classic I know every piece of gear Im wearing, I know what Im working towards for my next upgrade and I know what my long term gear goals are. But it gets worse. I remember the gear I was wearing in vanilla. Gear just matters so much more in the original progression curve. I was one of the people who advocated for transmog before it became a thing. It was only after classic launched that I can really appreciate how it made gear pointless. On another note when comparing classic with retail you cant ignore LFR. Its part of the equation. Because LFR exists you can explore every raid without ever joining a guild, making a single friend, learning your class or aquire any bit of gear. You can see everything and do everything. In classic you have to earn the right to even get a glimpse at any raid boss. Having to step up just to see the inside of a raid is a powerful motivator.

as one that killed azshara myth can def tell if you think that doesnt require organization and prep at least 100 times more than vanilla you have no idea what it means to raid in retail

I prefer raiding in retail but I prefer EVERYTHING else in classic. Have been doing nothing in retail except logging in on raid night for years.

I think the only thing I disagree with is assigning organisation to classic and not sharing it with retail. Assigning roles for most mythic bosses isnt simpler than any assignment you need to do in classic. Although you are right that the execution is alot harder now.

You are going to start so much fan fiction with that ship. 10:26

5:42 is this a reference to the silouettes of Zodiacs / Zoldyck family from hunterxhunter?

9:16 My Classic Hunter: - Dragonstalker's Helm - Mark of Fordring - Giantstalker's Epualets - Cape of the Black Baron - Beaststalkers Tunic - Beaststalkers Bindings - Peacemaker - Carapace Spine Crossbow - Giantstalker's Gloves - Beaststalker's Belt - Beaststalker's Pants - Windreaver Greaves - Blackstone Ring - Mason's Fraternity Band - Blackhand's Breadth - Rune of the Guard Captain My Retail Mage: Errrr......hmm....

Fights in Live are so much better than pretty much any iteration of the game. Of course there were iconic fights every expansion like Kaelthas, Illidan, Lich King, (oops nothing from Cata imo), Le Shin, Garrosh, Blackhand, and Argus, but with every new expansion and every new patch the fights for bosses get better and better. BUT, the EXPERIENCE of raiding in Classic/TBC/less extent WOTLK in my opinion is much better than today. While I found Argus (shit i forgot the raid name already) pretty good, it doesnt compare to stepping into Naxx the first time, or running up from the sewers of Black Temple, conquering the Sunwell, taking in the size of Ulduar, climbing Icecrown, or even exploring Throne of Thunder. I really didn't like either that Underrot raid (forgot the name there too) or Dazalor, fights were ok to good mechanically but the raid experience itself? Boring. Classic raiding experience, while meta'd to the extreme, is still vastly superior than today.

For me, the biggest difference between Classic (and TBC), and retail-raiding is the class complexity. I still remember my rotation as a Fire Mage in TBC: 1) 5x Scorch to apply the debuff, 2) spam Fireball until it was time to reapply the timer on the Scorch debuff. Watch your mana, and watch your threat, and that's mainly it. Forgive me, it's been a few years since I raided in retail, but today you have to 1) apply Living Bomb, 2) Fireball, 3) Scorch while moving, 4) Pyroblast when Hotstreak happens. Far as I know, class complexity has increased on all classes, but I liked the more chill version of Classic and TBC. I just wish we could have the low class complexity of Classic, and the high boss complexity of retail.

That ending is gonna awaken the dark prognosticus again

To not mention the grind of consumables or AP/Azurite/Benthic gear leaves a pretty big part of the picture blank.

Wonderful vid (again!) Buddy! One aspect to Vanilla Raiding (perhaps not so much in Classic) is the fact that you had no choice but to "git gud" in order to even ATTUNE for some Raids, which usually meant you had a pretty firm grasp on the mechanics necessary to fulfill your duties and responsibilities to the Raid Group, if you ever wanted to get asked to future ones. This was usually subjective to the Raid Leader's and Raid Officer's considerations of your 'contributions' but for those that put in the work effort, it usually proved quite rewarding. Retail Raiding is a bit more forgiving in that aspect, I'd suggest. Sure, you'll still get dropped like a hot turd if you fail to measure up but there is a more forgiving nature for small things, if you prove to be actually trying to progress your abilities (vice casually being 'meh' or 'defensive' about constructive criticism) . This is not a bad thing. I also think life for all of us right now, has been a bit more hectic and so fanatical dedication to the Guild (like, every night) in order to move up the food chain is not as prevalent a mindset as it once was (again, not a bad thing). But, Vanilla/Classic and Retail, are pretty much two different games now. I'm just glad we currently have BOTH to play in, as our time/mood/interest dictates. :)

You said it best. Having a BIS item is more completing. If wow retail didn't feel like a lottery and the gear was something you could work towards rather than just hoping something good randomly drops. I would still be playing retail. This is the reason I am now subbed for classic. When I have haven't been consistently subbed since mop. I think this is the first time since mop that I have been subbed for more than one month at a time. I really hope they change retail. Bring back gear that is meaningful to work towards and obtain.

Not being able to summon people right into raid etc thats what made the game amazing not everyone could go raiding or just do anything anywhere like nowadays

Thumbs up for the "Professor Plums"-reference to Jimmy the Mage.

As soon as I heard you say BRF was your favourite raid, I SMASHED THE LIKE BUTTON SO HARD I ACTUALLY SMASHED MY KEYBOARD AND ITS BROKEN NOW AND I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO BUT IT WAS WORTH IT FOR THIS VIDEO.

OI m8 Warchief's Blessing isn't onyxia buff

good video!

What is the UI you use for retail? I LOVE the set up!

OMG THATS ME :OOOO

Ok, unrelated to your entire point, but duuuuuuuuuuuuuude. We play on the same server cluster (Boulderfist, Dunemaul, Stonemaul, Bloodscalp, Maiev). That's so cool!

To be fair Classic bosses are pure tank and spank, compare any Classic boss to HC Aszhara (not even Mythic) and it's like like kindergarten student vs nuclear scientist PHD.

My favorite memories are our first killing of Venoxis with only 18 people (two were 58 and 59), our later first attempt on MC with 27 people to try it out where we managed to kill some trash with great difficulty and were elated to get an enchant and a tier 1 wrist drop, and then finally the downing of Rag many months later. It’s just something that’s very hard to replicate, but man do I miss those days. That communal feeling seemed to largely leave WoW many years ago as servers were merged, people left and lfg/lfr disincentivized social interaction.

I do remember the raids in Vanilla/BC being alot harder to beat, compared to later expansions. The whole 40 man aspect was a huge factor, along with having to get "resistance gear" for certain raids. Plus the fact that WoW was the first MMO that I had ever played, and thats the same for most of the player base back then, there was definitely a learning curve to it. The computer that I used to play Vanilla and BC on was an ancient piece of SHITE that would lag constantly, and I would die CONSTANTLY because of it. That goddamn fish boss "The Lurker Below" fight would cause me to die all the time, since I would lag so bad I couldn't jump back on the platforms once you fall into the water half of the time. But once WOTLK came out, I bought a good up to date gaming laptop and started to actually do research on the game mechanics because I wanted to get into a good raiding guild so I could actually experience the end game content for once. Now that I understood my class/rotations/spec better, spend alot of time mastering my burst/max damage rotations on dummies, watched and read boss strategies, the game finally clicked for me. Unfortunately, the week that my guild got our servers 2nd ICC 25 clear, my account got hacked and I just said fuuuuck this shit. Spending THAT MUCH TIME playing WoW was putting a serious damper on my relationship at the time, friends were basically non existent anymore, wasn't feeling very healthy from not exercising or going outside anymore. It honestly felt like a huge burden was lifted off my back once my account was stolen. Thinking about it now, I'm surprised that I didn't flip the fuck out over it considering how much time and effort I had put into WoW at that point. I started playing again at the very end of Cata going into MoP, and was starting to do end game raiding again. I was in a new guild that was really cool and fun to game with, but I ended up getting REALLY sick, and I couldn't play for 2 weeks and lost my spot on the raid roster. Sucks because ToT in MoP was a fun raid instance and I never got to beat it on Heroic. Ever since then, I played Legion casually and quit playing once the first raid was released. I didn't want to take the time and effort and dedicate it into WoW again, and I haven't played since. I still watch wow videos though, it's cool to see where the game is at now and all the stuff I haven't played. But even thinking about it now, I don't have the drive to even play as a 3-4 hour a week casual honestly. I ALMOST convinced myself into start playing Classic once WOTLK is rereleased since that was the most fun I had playing back when it was live, but naaah. I'm 14 years older now and it just doesn't have the same "draw" that it did back then. Guess I'm out of the targeted age demographic for actually PLAYING vidya games now, but watching these videos kinda makes me wish I would get the interest or drive to play again. But, whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatever.

Was not expecting that ending.

I think this might be the best debate about classic raiding vs retail I've seen on youtube, even better then Tips Out video. Raiding in classic is completely different then raiding in BfA, both are "hard" but for different reasons.

Looking like a badass. Ah yes my lvl 60 dps warrior reppin that bc lvler look. Nice video tho

Platinum, I love your videos to death (and everything you do), even if you spell my name wrong after every video... but even so, I cannot help but point out you really butchered "convenient" in the bullet points at 3:02.

One thing I think gets missed about the classic experience is class identify. What a mage brings to the raid us dramatically different than what a hunter brings or a shadow priest brings or even what a warlock brings. You need pretty much every class and most spec and you need them in certain ratios. Retail is more about the general role you fill: tank, healer, rdps, mdps

10:26 Still a better love story than twilight.

RagShara ship sails, I see.

Idk... I was pretty excited when I got my 475 Corrupted bow from mythic Skitra

KOABD!!! I joined them as a Horde during Wrath on Gorefiend!