Not sure about King Crimson influencing progressive metal, not in the beginnings of that genre anyway. The first prog metal bands in the 1980s were the likes of Fates Warning, Queensryche and Dream Theater and they have made it clear who their main influences are, the likes of Rush, Iron Maiden Judas Priest, Uriah Heep, Rainbow & Deep Purple. I think its a little later that a band like Tool draws some wider influences going back to the 70s as well.

thevampyre2598, I was not specifically talking about King Crimson influencing the early Prog Metal bands. My point was many point to Rush's 2112 as the early blueprint for Prog-Metal whereas, I argue that marker, the merging of Progressive Rock and Metal occurred earlier with King Crimson. Rush was a far more popular band than King Crimson and the direct influence is drawn from them by DT, Fates Warning and Queensryche. It's when you investigate it further, King Crimson was already bringing metal into Prog years before Rush. That was my point. The Prog bands that influenced the early Prog-Metal bands outside of Rush were Yes and Genesis. Obviously, Jordan Rudess is a big fan of Keith Emerson. The metal bands you listed were obviously influential. DT did cover Larks Tongue in the Aspic.

Listen Watcher of the Skies-Genesis- Drum-Bass riff and you hear The Fountai of the Lameneth, "The Sahara of Snow, Pt. 1" from Bruford and you listen Natural Science and obviously the Crimson Era 1973-1975. Bill Bruford had a strong influence in Rush.

I agree...Blackmore is on the same level as a Beck or Hendrix and his influence in a way even broader

I wonder why?

This is incredible! Love this....

Flower Travellin Band invented Prog Metal!

@@AndyEdwardsDrummer I know. The story I heard was that Ritchie was not on the very best of terms with Tony when the album was being arranged and he nixed that intro. It's on the Deluxe Rising 2 disc set.

@@bertkarlsson1421 Yes, just remember though that Yuya Uchida went in that direction in '67 after visiting Britain and hearing Jimi and Cream. So, there was that influence to catalyze FTB.

Just when you thought that "Stargazer " couldn't get any better than it is !! Thanks for sharing.

As for Rainbow my primary inspiration from them is Ronnie James Dio. 2112 was amazing when I first heard it in 1990, after being a bassist in bands covering Maiden and Metallica. Now I'm much more focused on vocal skills and as you mentioned Dio is one of the greatest. My only interest in Rainbow is the Dio years, same with Black Sabbath after the early 70's when Ozzy went so over the cliff it was heinous. In terms of influence on Metal Rainbow was a phase for Dio that prepared him for his own very successful band later on, Jimmy Bain going all the way until his death with the tribute band The Last In Line after RJD passed.

Good point. I first heard Rush via the "Archives" boxset, which included the three albums and the cover of COS is just confusing. Fly By Night, BAM! Rush, BAM! Caress Of Steel...erm.. However I do still play that album and it does start strong but loses me towards the end. Rush hadn't yet mastered how to finish an album until 2112 or Hemispheres.

@@rocketshiptoaltair I guess it's my taste for long trippy things that isn't to the common liking. In my metalhead years I always loved the opening sequences like on For Whom The Bell Tolls, Holy Diver, the trippy section in the middle of Rime Of The Ancient Mariner. Then when I discovered Led Zeppelin it was a revelation. Then Jethro Tull, Yes, King Crimson and Rush in the 70's especially and then Brian Eno it was like finding my way back to a native homeland I'd forgotten about until I heard those bands, especially Yes.

Another Green World, Brian Eno; one of my desert island discs.

It's a mystery to me, Bastille Day and Necromancer I enjoy more than anything off 2112. The epic on side two is badly concieved but has exciting moments so I don't believe 2112 is si much better than Caress of Steel. I think it had a better cover and the opening is monumental. And they maybe got a good tour to support the album, and maybe the audience wasn't quite ready for a prog metal album, and by 1976 classic rock band like Zep, Sabbath and Deep Purple were floundering a little perhaps....

Rush built up a steadily increasing US/East Coast underground fan base with hard rock/proto-metal youth. They were on our radar solidly by '77 and when 'AFTKs' came out in '77 they were as on the radar as Sabbath, Priest, Scorps, et al. Many new fans in the 12-15 year old age range got 'AFTKs' in real time, and '2112' and the live 'ATWAS' all at the same time. We started a fan call and letter campaign to rock radio stations to get them to play Rush to little effect until '80 when the ironic single "Spirit of Radio' broke through. Much 70s music culture was still underground 'friend-to-friend' networks. Many great bands like UFO and Budgie never really cracked. And by '80, post punk with jazz, prog, electronic and non-blues based rock influences had turned into hardcore and new wave- most of which did not see corporate dominance or commercial success until it emerged in the '90s as 'alternative, grunge, new metal and EDM. Rap had a similar underground path in the respective cities and regions it developed. Metal had a more 'above ground' path in the '80s. Motorhead, Ironmaiden, Sabbath, Ozzy et al uptempoed hard rock with punk flavor into the evolving subgenres up through the 90s. The underground largely dismissed commercial hair metal and pop through that whole period. '80s underground is still the most diverse and under-explored era of modern music, when music was art and free to represent actual culture. Andy's thesis on the morphing of 'prog' into various '80s forms is spot on, though nobody recognized or called it that during that time.

Why? Does that really define progressive music? (Not that it matters either way really)

I love Rush but they are clunky. In the early days especially there is a naivety to there compositiona; approach and a limit to what the are technically capable of. 2112 is not one through composed piece, it's basically a number of shorter songs squashed together. Their arrangements are pretty simple, as is their chord voicing and overall harmonic approach. Yes can be clunky too, but nowhere near as Rush. Fans worship Rush becuase they fulfill a purpose in heavy rock of opening the door to more complex forms, But musically they are not in the same league as many prog and fusion bands. On Farewell to Kings and Hemespheres they become much more sophisticated but nowhere near some other Prog, Listen here to how Gentle Giant use their advanced virtuosity and compositional dexterity to conjour the experience of going to school. Rush were never this sophisticated. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/orypZ8Kjy564iZc.html

@@AndyEdwardsDrummer and Rainbow Rising is not simple? i have heard and like Gentle giant. It is hard for a trio is not as complex as a 5-member band. But I guess to each his own. I cannot see Rush as clunky on 2112. Caress of Steel? Yes. Even Fly by night with the dog sounds. But not really 2112. rush was never as prog as Yes as far just making technical songs. I think Rush did a much better job making music that people can groove to. Yes, had some but also went way out there in the name of prog. Rush did what Rush wanted to do and never worshipped Prog or innovation for innovation's sake like Yes or King Crimson. That might make them more prog. in a way.

You prefer cats wailing ?

What is Beyond The Lighted Stage?

If we are analysing the vocal performances on the two albums then we have to give it to Rainbow Rising every time. Dio's performance is majestic. He has a very powerful operatic style on this album, he hits every note - his range is vast.

Yes...that too

Completely agree. Rising is okay for regular metal. I do not see it as progressive metal or even really proto-progressive metal. it is very straight forward. I do not hate it but it does not seem to be in the same league or genre.

Some might not think it imperative but I think there is also something to be said about the fact that it takes 5 guys in Rainbow to make "their sound" and only 3 guys in Rush to make theirs. Again, important? Maybe not, but I think it speaks to the level of musicianship Rush have.