Thanks for watching everyone, and let me know what your list would look like! I've included an FAQ for some of the more frequent (and expected) disagreements in the comments, as well as corrections and disclaimers, click "Read More" for these: *Main channel:* kzfaq.info *Twitter:* twitter.com/MrMockRock *Twitch:* www.twitch.tv/mockrocktwitch *Patreon:* www.patreon.com/mockrock *Teespring:* teespring.com/stores/mockrock *TimeBolt affiliate link (excellent software I use to speed up editing on my videos, use code "MOCKROCK" for a discount):* mockrock--timebolt.thrivecart.com/order-page/ *Corrections and Disclaimers:* *_______FAQ_______* *Moveset:* One of the more prominent disagreements I've gotten is how much emphasis I place on characters' movesets. There are a few reasons for this. First off, this is a discussion above all. Yes, you could make any character work in Smash if you were willing to bend them enough, but approaching a list like this with that mindset makes for a much less interesting video. I might as well just sort characters by sales numbers for their series. More importantly, however, remember that this is first and foremost an opinionated list, and for me, moveset potential _is_ a huge consideration. It's not the only consideration, but if a character can feel like they were ripped right out of their home series, that's a huge benefit in my eyes. A recurring comparison is Master Chief to Inkling, i.e. how can I say Master Chief wouldn't work well when Inkling is already in the game? Well, ignoring the fact that Splatoon emphasizes closer ranges than Halo does, I'd have said the same thing about Inkling if we didn't already have them. And now that they're in the game, I'd have been validated, I think they play perfectly fine as a Smash character but don't feel like a particularly faithful translation of their home game, which is a detriment for me. I don't dislike Ganondorf in Smash because he's weak, I dislike him because he doesn't represent the character I enjoy from Zelda. My main is Dark Pit, and I like how he plays as is, but I'd still prefer him if he played closer to Kid Icarus: Uprising. I talk about Smash for a living; I spend a lot of time thinking about character movesets and they matter a lot to me. *Isn't Octoling an Echo Fighter candidate:* Yes, but less so. I'm not a colossal Splatoon fan, but trying to put myself in those shoes, I think there's enough unused Splatoon content that if Octoling was announced and they were revealed to just be an Echo Fighter, I think there's a lot more room to be disappointed than with someone like Akuma or Birdo. *_______Corrections_______* *Raiden:* My Discord server informed me that I mispronounced Raiden's name throughout the video and it's never addressed, whoops! *Credit:* 2 Clips of Bandanna Dee are sequentially credited to Marc626. The first of these should actually have been credit to Nintendo Utopia. *FPS:* I called Fortnite an "FPS" at one point. I'm aware it's a third person shooter, not first person, and the intention was just to use this as a stand-in for "shooter," but obviously that's not actually correct. *_______Disclaimer_______* This video briefly features Rushdown Revolt developed by Vortex Games, a studio I've performed contracted consulting work for. The video was not sponsored and Vortex Games had no input into its production; this disclaimer is being added entirely for the sake of transparency.

Friendly reminder Lightning Mcqueen’s first appearance was a video game, so he is technically eligible for smash

nah man he put rayman in c tier and seconds later put rabbid peach in b tier 💀💀

“Phoenix Wright does nothing to make him a platform fighter” Isabelle: 😳

Watchin' this dude struggle to see how many of these characters would work when half the existing cast in their canonical games have astounding abilities like "jumping" and "existing" is quite entertaining. I mean, I know there's the "without creating a moveset from scratch" element, but that seems different than "I can't see how this would work." Bro, they got Game and Watch to work. They got a toy that didn't even work to begin with to work.

This tier list would probably be a lot easier to make if it had a "I'd like then in the game but as an assist trophy" category

I feel like with Octoling, the main reason people want one is to represent a variety of other weapons not seen in Inkling's moveset. Sort of like how people would rather Dark Pit represent other weapon types from KIU that Pit doesn't use. There are still a lot of weapon types, sub-weapons, and specials that one could pull from, or in some instances change what move a certain weapon is associated with, like a Slosher aerial somewhat similar to the G&W forward air bomb rather than a Slosher down smash. In this regard, the Octoling acts less as a Character of their own, and more as a vessel with which to explore and represent game mechanics and abilities that were passed over the first time around.

There's a weird recency bias in this tier list that I just can't get behind. Rayman's placement basically just tells me that he's never seen clips of Rayman Origins or Legends, because he dismisses the games as "just jumping", but a) that's a perfect fit for a 2D platform fighter, and b) No. Just no. Rayman basically has all the punches and kicks already in his games that you could almost lift him 1:1 out of his own game into smash. He has been punching and kicking things since his original game in 1995; the main reason behind his design is how his floating detached limbs would make his attacks easy to animate. Agumon's placement seemed weirdly dismissive to me as well. The Digimon franchise has a massive assortment of games and media, but he remembers this 1 anime from his childhood (which Pokemon also had), and says "nope". Also Akuma, Dixie Kong , Funky Kong, and Impa are all A or S tier solely because "They could be echo fighters", but Octoling, Birdo, and Springman are rejected even though all the same logic applies. Jonesy from Fortnight gets in because he's got all the toxic awful traits that make Master Chief a bad fit for Smash, but he is bumped up to B tier, because ALSO has all the toxic awful traits that make Steve a bad fit for Smash, like being able to place his own platforms in a platform fighter.

i love how universally everyone who played metroid dread took one look at ravenbeak on thought “yep, that’s a smash character”

I think it would have been a good idea to add a "D Tier" to differentiate between "bad" and "unworkable" options. Hat Kid, Heavy, and Cuphead do NOT belong in the same tier as Agent 47, GLaDOS, Eevee, and Fall Guy. Speaking of GLaDOS, I'd have liked to see discussion of Chell instead, the actual protagonist who isn't stuck to the ceiling. Also seconding another comment about how it's disappointing Quote wasn't mentioned.

I like how he took the gameplay of the character into account. That’s something most people I’ve seen don’t do when ranking characters for Smash, so it was cool to see it

The Raiden placement did not age well. I could genuinely see him winning a ballot at this point lol

I feel like just shunning characters for being "gun" characters is just as shallow as hating on sword fighters. Master Chief for example has a variety of weapons and tools in his arsenal that aren't guns and could be applied really well to a smash moveset imo. Gravity Hammer smash attack, energy sword lunge, grenade varients like sticky, grapple hook for recovery etc.

One way I could see the “blank slate” player character issue being overcome for a Dark Souls rep would just be to make it an NPC from the game. Oscar, Anri, Solaire, or even Lucatiel would all play nearly identical to the player character, and would have more defined personalities, making them better possible fits for smash.

My argument for Phoenix Wright being in Smash: 1. Someone "not feeling like a Smash character" hasn't stopped them before, look at ROB, Wii Fit Trainer, and Duck Hunt. 2. He already has been in a fighting game, and I really disagree with the take that they pulled his moveset out of nowhere. If you play the games, you can very heavily see the inspiration. He has enough of a basis that you could reasonably make a moveset for him. 3. Smash is about the biggest gaming franchises coming together, yet there are no visual novel reps. Obviously someone like Monika or Makoto (Danganronpa) wouldn't work that well, but Phoenix Wright would make a good VN rep, especially since AA is one of the biggest Visual Novels of all time. 4. We NEED the AA music in Smash. I'm really shocked that not a single song from AA made it in.

It seems weird to rank octoling as a separate character when I've only ever heard them discussed as being an Echo, in which context they'd make perfect sense representing other weapon classes in the same way Dark Pit does - Octobrush in place of inkbrush, Luna Blaster in place of the regular blaster, etc

I think you're heavily underselling Master Chief, Heavy, and Cuphead by saying "they only have ranged attacks." Every character moveset in smash has at least some attacks that you never see them do in game, and lots of characters have almost all of their normals and such improvised. Cuphead could especially easily have a melee moveset adapted to him because he's based off of rubber hose cartoons, the incarnation of slapstick comedy. Just make his neutral special a weaker fox laser you can move while shooting and bam, you've got a Cuphead that plays just like in his games. Heavy also has a high emphasis on punching and being physically strong in every official depiction aside from gameplay.

I’m not a big Hat in Time fan, but I definitely think Hat Kid should at least be D tier, because even if there’s not much, I can see a unique moveset with the umbrella and certain hats like the potion or ice one.

I think one of the best ways to tone down a Mortal Kombat rep would be to use Sub-Zero. Freeze/ice is a fairly underused mechanic in smash especially when compared to fire, so it would be cool (lol puns) to see another ice user as well. Maybe including both Sub-Zero and Scorpion as pseudo-clones?

“You cant have free flying characters in smash” We have come far since brawl

Pretty old video, but I have ideas I want to talk about. I GREATLY disagree about Heavy. From your perspective he might just be a guy with a gun and that's all he can do, but TF2 is a very colorful game with a lot to draw from and some interesting ideas to bring to the table. Heavy has 4 distinct weapon types, his miniguns, shotguns, lunchbox and his fists. The shotgun can be fairly easily ignored if necessary since most Heavy mains don't run it, since the lunchbox is more important. To make a moveset for Heavy, I think its important to first identify the core of TF2. TF2 is, at its core, a team oriented game that is remarkably well balanced. Over time, however, as more additions has been made the wackiness of its taunts and player interactions has also become a core of its identity. We can't include the "team" aspect but we CAN include the wackier taunt ideas. So, I would suggest giving Heavy fun taunts that encourage silly interactions, and at least 1 special centered around a taunt. My suggestions for his taunts are as follows: High Noon, a finger pistol tauntkill with surprising range but excessive startup that can nevertheless be cancelled, dealing high damage and knockback if it lands. Schadenfreude, a laughing taunt very common in TF2 that's also an actual taunt. Lastly, rock-paper-scissors. This is unique and the most interesting. This is a unique endless cancellable taunt, except this one causes the Heavy to challenge the enemy to rock-paper-scissors, which the enemy may accept. Both players input a button to choose which they pick, and the loser (if any) takes high damage and knockback if they lose. The Kazotzky Kick has no lag when cancelled, so the Heavy isn't disadvantaged by using it. Kazotsky Kick could also be a taunt, another endless cancellable taunt where Heavy can move slowly while he dances, but there's stiff competition from High Noon and Schadenfreude. For his specials: Up Special: Going off of the idea of taunts, up-special is based on Flippin' Awesome, a taunt where the player stops in place and flips another player who taunts in their direction. When used, another class will appear in front of the Heavy, based on how long the button is held. These are Scout, Soldier, and Heavy. Scout will fail to throw Heavy, dropping him straight down as a Stall-then-fall style attack. Soldier will struggle to throw Heavy, sending him on a more horizontal angle. Heavy will launch Heavy upwards, sending him on a vertical angle. This allows for two different launch angles based on situation, and a goofy attack that directly pulls from when Heavy is thrown in Flippin' Awesome. Neutral Special: This will be his classic minigun. Since the minigun is hitscan, I don't think it makes sense to use this as a zoning projectile-based tool, but at the same time I don't like the idea of using it a serious attack. I would suggest that the minigun will be a long-range attack with 52 frames of startup (matching its .87s rev time in TF2) with an additional 1 second of charge time before it can deal maximum damage. It deals low % at long range (no knockback), decent % at mid range (no knockback), and high % at close range with high knockback. It can be aimed 360 degrees, is hitscan, and hits the target instantly. The main purpose of the Minigun is to encourage the enemy player to approach you, since the damage the Minigun deals is significant for how non-committal it is, and at closer ranges its low speed makes it a classic unusable Big Move. Down Special: Glove Swap + Sandvich. In TF2 Heavy has a variety of melee options, and since in Smash these will represent a not-insignificant portion of his toolkit, Glove Swap will represent these by allowing Heavy to switch his gloves for different effect, similar to Monado Arts. These effects will be: Stock: No special effects. Not picking another option will select this. Gloves of Running Urgently: Increases Heavy's speed, but causes him to gain temporary % up to an additional 200 % that slowly drains while not in use. Eviction Notice: Smaller speed boost with slower % gain, but additionally speeds up his punches at the expense of damage, and further boosts speed when an enemy is hit. Warriors Spirit: Increases damage and knockback taken by both Heavy and the opponent. Fists of Steel: Reduces damage taken from most sources, but greatly increases damage taken from melee attacks. Sandvich/Second Banana: Eats a Sandvich that recharges on a 30 second timer, restoring some % OR a Banana that recharges on a 10 second timer that restores notably less %. Either one or the other, but not both. These give Heavy the ability to adjust how he plays, but come with significant downsides that naturally limit their use and can backfire tremendously. Side special: Equips a Shotgun, an item that is similar to the minigun, but with much lower % at close-mid range, no knockback at all, but very little startup comparatively. Has 6 shots, those shots can be aimed, and it can be thrown like a regular item. It has a 5/10 second recharge that starts when the shotgun disappears from the field. The Shotgun is more usable at midranges, encouraging approaches at close-mid range where the Minigun encourages approaches at mid-long range. Unlike a Zoner who uses their ranged tools to try and keep the enemy OUT, the intention of these tools is to draw the enemy IN. Their damage can't be dodged and can rack up % quickly, but do nothing to stop them from approaching to a distance where those tools aren't as useful. The Minigun is of use against enemies who try to stall, the Shotgun is of use when the Minigun is too slow, and a few of his gloves are of use in approaching the enemy. The sustainability offered by the Sandvich is also intended to draw the enemy in, discouraging passivity that gives Heavy time to heal. Heavy isn't fast even with the GRU (and the GRU does the enemies job for them if overused), so he's generally incapable of stalling himself, even against slow characters like Ganondorf and Inceneroar. Besides those, Heavy fits the mold of your standard heavyweight, but with a focus on drawing enemies into his effective range with harassment tools. I have some other ideas, like Down Smash being the Huo-Long Heater fired at the ground in front of Heavy with some ground protection in the form of a ring of fire, his forward tilt being a two-part downward punch combo based off of Meet the Scout, his grab animation based off of Meet the Scout a crouch animation based off of his squat in Meet the Spy, jab and forward smash being his punch and crit uppercut respectively, etc. There's a lot to draw from, admittedly with some blank spots (aerials in particular), but to say Heavy has nothing at all is blatantly untrue.

putting phoenix in the “would never work in a fighting game” tier when he has appeared in several is doo doo. if mr game and watch worked why wouldn’t he?

That’s a pretty odd sackboy take, I mean he’s from a platformer where you use many different gadgets and things like the alt costumes, taunts and victory animations are already there, not to mention he’s in playstation all stars just like kratos, I can picture it in my head pretty easily Regardless, great video

My man actually put Cuphead below fortnite Jonesy

Everyone outside of the Kirby fanbase doesn't seem to understand why Bandana Dee is the most asked for Kirby character... its because he started out as a side character, and later in Return to Dreamland became one of the four MAIN characters. He's seemingly just a normal Waddle Dee yet he's just as capable as the other big Kirby reps Dedede and Metaknight. He's been consistently showing up as Kirby's number two, like Luigi is to Mario. In Kirby Fighters he's Kirby's default ally and in Forgotten Land he's literally the only option for player two. He's basically the ultimate underdog character, and he has a LOT of moveset potential with his spear, his parasol, and even the beam wand to represent Waddle Doo. Aside from that, Waddle Dee's are very iconic. They've been around since the very beginning of Kirby and are basically the franchise's secondary mascot. The very reason Piranha Plant was added is more viable for Bandana Dee since he's actually identified as a legitimate character instead of just a basic enemy, and Plant was added for being iconic and well known (apparently). And if he was added it would finally break the always-present "Sakurai Bias," where the vast majority of Kirby rep is from the four older games Sakurai designed. And no, he's not just a Goomba with a hat... Goombas literally just walk and on rare occasions fly/hop. Goombas don't use spears.

I have to say, a Smash Bros that prioritizes canon moveset potential the way your tier list does, over creative interpretations of characters, would be a pretty disappointing Smash Bros. Not only would we not have funky characters like WFT or Rob, characters like Fox or particularly Captain Falcon would never exist. I don't hate your tier list, but that's a boring world I don't want to play Smash in. Why can't we give "pulled out of the ass" movesets for popular characters a chance? If we didn't, We wouldn't have some of the most popular character movesets in gaming, and honestly, we wouldn't have a Smash Bros.

Because Sakurai himself said that a future smash game would probably not have the full roster of ultimate, me and my friend did a “who’s most/least likely to return for smash 6” tier list, which I think you should do.

I honestly feel like a character's source material not having much to work with in terms of a moveset is kinda irrelevant for Smash. The Star Fox characters, Captain Falcon, Wii Fit, Duck Hunt, G&W etc. had basically nothing to work with and they still adapted them well enough. So I think it's kinda silly to still see that as a limitation.

"Impostor has an actual moveset to pull from in-game, he's insanely iconic, and it would be funny. F Tier cause it's a meme pick" BRUH

I find the Chief argument of "he'd just shoot" weak, since Inkling has plenty of melee attacks in it's moveset, and Splatoon doesn't even have a melee mechanic, yet Halo has a universal melee mechanic, and it's a core part of the design of those games (being one of the parts of the "golden triangle" of combat, as said by the original devs).

I love the idea of Raven Beak having a taunt where he just RIPS off one of his wings and tosses it aside. I also like the idea of him using slow-moving projectiles like the black hole to block opponents from dodging his burst movement attacks. And either the dwarf star attack or Raven Beak X would make for great Final Smashes.

Cynthia is arguably the most beloved non protagonist character in Pokémon, and Lucario is feeling kind of dead in Smash. The solution? In Smash 6, add Cynthia with the team Roserade/Lucario/Garchomp.

I'm a little puzzled why Akuma is ranked so high when Ken already covers the echo fighter slot for Ryu, while Octoling ranks at C when a second Splatoon rep could help represent more of the weapons Inkling doesn't already cover. Outside of an Echo Fighter, you could even go the Falco/Wolf route of making them semi-clones so they have more room to stand out form the established Inkling moveset.

Cooking Mama lost her right to Smash when she pulled that crypto stunt.

Freddy… Is in F tier… Without… Explanation…? WWWHHHAAAATTTT?

I like how you consider how fun each character’s potential moveset would be to play as/against, not a lot of people seem to do that.

If Sans becomes playable, then he should have a gimmick that is basically getting instant-killed by anything, since Sans has no defense and literally 1HP. Dr. Eggman is a character that I would see more as a Boss rather than playable (If we want a playable evil character from Sonic, then use Metal Sonic) because the best moments of Eggman are his boss battle with his big machines (just like you said).

Crash Bandicoot is my single most wanted character for Smash, and I can't believe he wasn't picked for Ultimate considering his resurgence. I grew up with him but I don't think it's just my bias tbh, he is an icon and he deserves to be in alongside Sonic, Megaman and Pac-man, also he does have good moveset potential considering some of the more genre-breaking games in his roster

Poor gun characters, such hate from mock rock lol. They can be done right.

Guys I think MockRock hates zoners

30:30 Sorry, pedantmode activated. It is not an FPS. It qualifies for one of those letters.

1) Hollow Knight in S tier that makes me happy 2) As a massive Dark Souls fan, I think a far better representative than the chosen undead or ashen one would be one of the more iconic bosses. Considering that the game's difficulty is by far the most iconic part of the series, and the bosses generally provide the largest source of difficulty, I'd argue some bosses are more famous than the playable character, and would make more sense. My top choices would either be Artorias, Nameless King, or Gael. 3) Kinda sad that my personal biggest smash hope, Commander Shepard, didn't make the tier list. He would be a zoner character, but I think combined with the biotic attacks he has at his disposal, and how maybe there could be some creative work around to include some of the dialogue stuff in the game (maybe a powered up paragon and renegade mode or something), I think he could work, and I'd love to see my personal favourite video game character get into Smash lol

You put into words exactly my thoughts on Geno. I really don’t understand why so many people want him in, and you hit the nail on the head.

L Duck Hunt, g&w and villager are in this game. Phoenix has all his chances

Hiss at Bomberman. You don't know how long the series has been around nor how many games he has had. Bomberman even been in a crossover with Wario so he most definitely is deserving of S rank. There was a reason why he was one of the first Assist Trophies revealed. They knew people wanted him in but they had to opt for an Assist Trophy instead (since, remember, all the characters were already chosen ahead of time by Nintendo)

Whoever mentioned GLaDOS for this list instead of Chell either hasn't played Portal but thought a Portal rep would be cool, or just thinks she's funny so she should be the fighter. Chell is my most wanted fighter atm and GLaDOS would be a good background character. Maybe an Assist Trophy at best lol.

Sebastian Tute is actually S tier. MockRock is just too afraid of him to put him there.

50:02 Hayabusa is a ninja but his absurd amount of genre and weapon variety means he'd play nothing like Sheik or Greninja. Hell you could just use his DOA moveset and make him play like Kazuya, he has tons to pull from

GIVE ME MY ANIME LAWYER DAMNIT I WANT TO SCREAM OBJECTION WHEN MY FRIEND BEATS ME

It makes me sad that of all TF2 reps, people clamour for the heavy. He's so slow and the minigun would be so boring to play around. Compare that to Scout, whose best ranged option is a pistol or a baseball while being a speedster with a built in double jump Soldier (rip Rick May) who has a more dodge-able rocket launcher that could also be used to set up "market gardens" through rocket jumps Pyro who's primary is a flame thrower which could uniquely build him as a damage character who might struggle to kill (also built in reflector with airblast) Demoman who could play similarly to snake, but could also spec into a demoknight in places to make him more in your face Or even Spy whose invisibility and backstab mechanics would focus him as a character about out manuevering your opponent and faking them out. I'd argue that every TF2 character is iconic and that just because heavy is the poster child, doesn't mean that the other mercs just lose out on their opportunities. I'd expect the TF2 community of all communities to be more creative than this

Kinda sad about Rayman in C tier :(. I actually feel like he has alot of moveset potential. He has no limbs, so you could give him long range attacks without any hitboxes in between. Kinda like marth, except there is no middle part at all. But whatever, I'm probably just biased

The worst take in this video is calling digimon bad

Ok, so I get this is your opinion and that’s fine, but Agumon in f tier?! I get you don’t think of him as much a game character, and fair enough, your video, but is that enough for f tier? In terms of moveset, sure at first glance his moveset, while certainly there, is basic. But digivolution offers a lot of potential. I made a moveset for a potential future video (if I ever work up the nerve to make a channel) where he has a meter that fills as you deal damage, then can digivolve up to 3 times for limited durations, each having unique movesets making him a unique blend of Pokémon trainer and arsene. Brawlfan1 made a video where at certain percent benchmarks, he digivolves to the next stage with new specials and properties, a unique blend of lucario and pyra-mythra. And there’s so many others out there too, I feel like that alone should keep him out of f tier

Everytime I hear the "weapon" argument of Fire Emblem reps, I groan. What the heck is the actual difference between a big sword and a big axe? That you can "pull" stuff with the head of the axe? Ike swings his sword in the same way he would do for an axe. You can trade Ragnell for Urvan and he would still look and feel the same, is just now we can finally stop considering that dumb 1-2 range argument for giving him a projectile. People want FE characters reps despite that character archetype already existing too. "Lyn could be interesting because she has a bow, is quick and very agile". That is Pit, my dude. Besides making Lyn extremely quick and speedy, what you want is just faster Pit. I really DO NOT get FE reps in this category.

Bandana dee as a reluctant A… I’ll take it. Personally I really like the idea of another floaty puffball with a disjoint. It’s kinda like meta knight, but I think the added range of his spear would make it feel more like a proper disjoint. I don’t want to piss off MK players, but a MK with less gimmicky special moves and less of an emphasis on ladder combos, but instead a more bait and punish play style with added combo ability sounds really fun.

Octopath specifically is really weird to think of in Smash because the whole deal is that it's a party of eight. Bringing one into Smash and not the rest wouldn't be meaningfully representing the game and a stance change character with eight modes would just be awful to play

Thank you for indirectly showing me how to beat that yellow sun attack in raven beak’s fight! I never even thought to pop a power bomb to destroy it. That’s gonna help a lot in my dread mode play through.

I love how mockrock is talking about how interesting the building mechanics would be for fortnite, and yet we have Steve

That Master Chief assessment is hilariously short sighted dude. He could absolutely be an Inkling style character that switches between weapons depending on the move without relying on projectiles like Samus or even Snake. The energy sword is so iconic it could be his neutral/tilt weapon and the gravity hammer could easily be used for Smash attacks.

I think an interesting way to do an eevee rep without it being a gimmick would be to go the Kazuya demon form route, with certain attacks quickly evolving eevee before de-evolving them after the attack, I dunno, could be cool

The Rayman 3D games literally revolve around combat

Paper Mario in S Tier just makes me feel happy, he's been my most wanted character for years and to see my feelings validated is just :)

I like how all of my most wanted fighters are in d or f. Eevee, master chief, Phoenix Wright, cuphead, heavy, and rayman. Man.

Wouldn't the Echo Fighter reasoning also apply to the Octolings?

For me a lot of the fun of seeing a new character added to the game is finding out how Sakurai and the team have interpreted them, And how that might surprise me or differ from my own perspective. I think that's where a lot of these off the wall pics come from, the desire to see just what they would do with it. I can certainly sympathize with the perspective that you bring, but as an example imagining what they could do with a fighting game character that is more tightly focused on rhythm as a mechanic I think is exciting even if I can't quite imagine it myself.

I am so glad Knuckles is in S tier, I think he has so much potential with just his mobility options. The Sonic series in smash has pretty terrible representation, a single character with the single worst moveset in the game, two very samey stages, and a weak music selection considering the pedigree of Sonic music. I kinda disagree with Shadow being an echo, not because it doesn’t fit, but because it'd just add another character with the same awful moveset, and if they’re gonna differentiate him them it’d be better to just use that effort to fix Sonic

Me eagerly waiting throughout the entire video to see Mock’s opinion of Phoenix Wright… I get that he has literally no move set that exists for him, but I think that would be the entire point, similar to Piranha Plant

Rayman is my personal top pick, I'm mostly affiliated with him through the Rayman Rabbids games, which are just great. I think neutral B being the plunger gun would complete my life lmao. I think he has mostly American fans, and those who are fans of him are huge fans. But he's slightly on the cult side. I'd give him a B tier personally, though. He is frozen in Battlefield after all! I also never thought of Maxwell from Scribblenaughts, but that's now my second pick! He could have something like a Hero scroll wheel, or a hodgepodge of funny abilities like G&W or Villager. I agree that B tier is a good spot for him. Edit: he could be pretty cool with his own customizable options before the game like a Mii fighter. But they could have more creativity with his movesets by making him his own fighter, I'd say.

I personally, most of all want either Dante, Hollow Knight or Phoenix Wright. I'm sorry, but Mr Wright is just a character that can work in a fighting game and would have excellent gameplay systems.

bruh who says King Hippo has to play like Little Mac? Was there ever any concern about Bowser playing like Mario?

Personally, some characters I would love to see in the Future Smash are: -Crash or Spyro for the PS1 Platformer Rep -Ratchet and Clank/Sly Cooper/Jak and Daxter for PS2 Platformer Rep -Dante -Noah or Mio for Xenoblade 3 rep -Raiden from MGR -Persona 3 Protagonist or Mitsuru Kirijo -Megaman Zero -Tidus or Zidane from FF10 and 9 respectivly

Okay, but the idea of a Digimon character duking it out with Pokemon characters in a crossover fighter is so tantalizing.

I disagree with cuphead he has many charms, shots, Super shots, etc. And they all work differently

32:58 I don't think i specified that the Mii Mage i requested would have had a moveset from Miitopia(my bad) In Miitopia the Mii Mage alone doesn't have the most original moveset you can give her but are the mechanics of the game that can make her interesting but she has some original stuff like the personality skills and the types of magic she can use can work in a moveset, i immagine her with the Sprinkles mechanic: she could have a MP meter just like Hero but it doesn't restore when you hit an opponent, instead you can restore it by waiting(same as Hero) or you use the MP Sprinkle(by pressing Shield + B) to restore her MP but the Sprinkle has a limit and can only be reused after you lose a stock. Also team attacks could work with a Mii class joining during the Smash Attacks (Warrior,Cleric and Cat are the main ones used in the trailers and in the cover of the games) and they are treated like projectiles but they stop helping when they are hitted 3 times and they return only after losing a stock(just like in the game) That could make a Zoner that is not only focused around THROWING projectiles but also WHEN and HOW to throw the projectiles, the Projectiles themself would obviously be very strong but they cost a lot of MP and the ones that don't cost MP like the Smash Attacks(You can move during a smash attack kinda of like Olimar but with visible animation and a big start-up to the attacks) are risky if not used correctly and the 4 good moves that are completely safe (F-tilt,Fair [using the animation of the normal attack from Miitopia] Nair and grab) have trouble killing,they are slow and they are only good for resetting neutral(Also i want some more Miitopia content than just 2 songs). But that doesn't matter a lot because i'm still happy you put her in C tier and not in F Tier. Anyway great video and keep up the good content!!!

28:31 Now hold on, a character having the ability to fly is a bullshit reasoning, there's 17 characters in the roster than can canonically fly/float, although that does include the pits, who can only do so for 5 minutes- unless we shove medusa's verge of death corpse into Pittoo's wings again, actually heck, the pegasus wings remove the time limit for pit- so that's entirely 17 characters that canonically have the ability to fly. Not including most of the mario characters because, that just means giving everyone a clown car, and Bowser Jr. Is the only one rockin one. Y'know how all the characters that can fly/float have been handled? Bigger air jump, or multiple jumps. The ability to fly, cannot be used against a character, smash has already handled that well.

"very few people know who orcane acctually is". What a souless sentence, what a horrible thing to say. Did this fanbase truly forget what the joy of all of this is. Did you forget how you felt when you first saw Marth and Roy in melee. You probably didnt know who they are but you were most likely like: "i want to know who these dudes are, they look really cool", then you looked at their trophies and saw Fire Emblem. And someone did the same thing and became a dedicated fan. Are we bringing in characters that are popular without giving people opportunities to find new series and maybe reveal passions and dedications to people? I know i'm streching it but that sentance just hit my ear wrong, so, so wrong

I’m sorry but minecraft and fortnite have large demand and with these popular characters more younger people will join our community, and if we port over Steve’s building then it makes sense for Fortnite’s building to make use of it aswell

Honest to god think Jonesy would be S tier, you could have all the costumes like Steve, have cool mechanics with building and have specials be guns with normals being the pick, be such a cringe character to fight, and make so many people angry. It’s perfect

I can't believe I missed this call for community assistance! Next time I'll be keeping an eye out for things like this :D Edit: Having watched most of the video so far, I actually agree with most of your list. I was a little surprised at Skull Kid losing out to Impa, though I definitely get it. Also GOOD CALL ON YOSHIMITSU! He was my JAM in Tekken. Also Also: Obligatory "BUT MAH GOKU!!11!1"

Rayman would be great fit for Smash, his SSF2 version really showed us that. And Heavy... this is my bias, but TF2 really deserves it. I would rather see a Soldier in the game, but yeah. Don't forget TF2 has actually a lot of melle weapons you can use for a moveset.

This list, overall, is pretty damn solid. A majority of the placements made are pretty much where I'd end up putting them, but there's a couple of issues that I have with certain placements/choices and reasons why. #1: Heavy - The explanation for Heavy sounds like you didn't put too much time into looking how Heavy or a majority of Team Fortress 2 works, because I feel disregarding a character with having no moveset potential when the character has not only a plethora of melee weapons to pick from, but also the aspect of using team-based combat and utilizing assists from the other mercs is absolutely underestimating how much identity Heavy could not only have as a character, but Team Fortress has as a franchise. It was just a rotten take, and I feel needed some more time in the oven. Same for characters like Leon Kennedy (a character who shows he can utilize close-range combat options thanks to not only his knife, but general use of close-range combat with punches, flips, kicks, etc.) Master Chief and Agent 47. #2: Branching off from the first point, I honestly think your disregard of creating original moves/content for a character is kind of jarring. Considering Smash's most iconic and popular characters, Fox and Captain Falcon, are just that, I think you need to think a little more outside the box. An over-assumption about how a character could/would play is also really off-putting and really took me out of the video at times. Speaking from experience, creativity is a wonderful way of not only breathing new life into a character's potential, but also making a great design even greater. Think less "Oh, I have to make up new moves" and more "I can take this aspect of the character and represent in a way that's yet to be done." #3: The remark about Rayman not having much powers is simply untrue. Rayman in both Legends and Origins is basically a platform fighting game character in a regular platformer, and that's even taking into account the abilities the character has utilized in his 3D adventures. This feels like a comment that needed a bit more research put behind it. #4: On the topic of Eevee...listen, I absolutely loathe self-plugging, mainly because I don't deserve the publicity, but I made it work and made it work well. #5: Krystal's moveset potential with her staff alone is already incredible, and it would add so much to Starfox both in terms of representation of canonical material and just playstyle differentiation. It's literally endless creative freedom and I feel she deserves at least A tier. Other than that, everything else is fine. I'm glad you pushed Doom Slayer upwards and I am totally behind you when it comes to Raven Beak. Definitely one of my top newcomer requests for Smash 6 as well.

I would’ve personally thought Riku would be the potential next KH character instead of Aqua, but even as a KH fan, I agree that they don’t need another rep for awhile.

Zero's Z-Saber being a multhit energy sword should give an entirely different feel to him than almost any other fighter. Tons of source material + fighting game movesets to pick from, more than one iconic design to pull from, and a strong legacy makes this my number one pick.

I don't personally care that much about half of these characters but I feel like you really did some of them dirty. "We're not getting Among Us in Smash". Really? The game made more money then a good portion of the games on the roster already, is more iconic than some of the characters we have in the game, and has quite a bit of potential for an interesting moveset. I also know a great number of people who would unironically love to have them on the roster, and the reveal would generate an incredible amount of hype and publicity. The only reasons people don't want it on the roster is because of over-popularity or memes, and that hasn't stopped other characters from getting requested, like Sans or Jonesy, or in Steve's case added. If the game is still popular and fun, is still getting support and has a strong player base to this day, other then personal bias, there is literally no reason it couldn't happen. And that's just one of many characters that I could talk about, not even the most egregious examples (some of which you fixed yourself later). I mean you have your opinions my guy, but goddamn. At least we're on the same page with the Mario + Rabbids character being more interesting than Rayman from a moveset standpoint.

That self awareness on funky kong was spot on. I font love the series but I was thinking exactly what you said about the contradiction there. Great vid.

Seeing Travis in S tier is all I ever needed. Travis has been my most wanted for the last two games, and I think he has a good shot with him being a mii costume, No More Heroes being so popular right now, and Suda still talking Sakurai's ear off.

I don't like how your reasoning for Master Chief is literally just "he would use guns to shoot you from afar, and that would suck". That feels really lazy and doesn't make any sense to me. 1) That's a standard archetype in fighting games. You already made a vid on zoners in Smash, so I know you don't think zoners are inherently a bad idea. 2) The exact same argument could've been made for Snake, Inkling, or Samus, but they made most of their kits CQC stuff and everyone loves it (balance considerations aside). Halo has way more melee/short range tools than MGS, Metroid or Splatoon, and you even brought them up just to entirely dismiss them.

I think the biggest problem for Dante in Smash is surprisingly liscening issues. Since it would be hard to put in a character from a game called "DEVIL may cry" and he would have abilities like "DEVIL trigger". it's not that I think it would be bad, but hard to put in a E rated game. They even called his mii skin from the game "Dante". he is my top pick though.

A cool list, but you seem really opposed to joke or wacky characters, which sort of define a part of the Smash roster (Piranha Plant, Wii Fit Trainer, Pichu)

Ngl putting Hat Kid and Leon on F feels like a massive disservice to their characters, series and abilities. Which felt like a pretty ignorant move on your part ngl. Hat Kid I think at the very least deserves a C if you’re willing to bump down Crash to B because of a “generic” moveset potential. Because to be fair she wouldn't bring much new to the table. But who cares? Having a gimmick or wacky movesets is not the deciding factor whether someone should join Smash or not. And Leon… Hoo boy talk about not knowing how he could represent Resident Evil so well without having to make him a boring zoner. He could easily have limited ammo on his weapons which are varied across the series and aren’t just one gun. And when he runs out he has to go all in with melee attacks. Honestly that placement felt undeserved. In fact most of the gun characters felt like that because you thought all they could be is zoners.

Something I don't see any of here is just how insane a Monster Hunter rep could be. Monster hunter has such a large amount of weapon types to pull moves from, all with their own unique traits and movesets. My ideal Monster Hunter character would be able to swap weapons with down special (or even in the start screen, but that might be too crazy for a smash character) between a few classic weapons from the series, like dual blades, longsword, hammer, and maybe something more off the wall like hunting horn. Final Smash could be a chargeblade amped element discharge or something referencing nergigante or Zorah Magdaros. Even if that wouldn't work or would be too intensive, you could give them the Byleth treatment of using different weapons for different moves, like bow for neutral special, longsword for forward tilt, etc. The amount of moveset potential for me is just too good not to pass up, especially with the craziness that could come from swapping weapons.

I like how KZfaqrs automatically shoot down potential characters just over having a "boring" move-set when it's ultimately up to Sakurai to determine how that character works. Sakurai will go out of his way to include all these different sword wielders and RPG characters that have no real differences in concept whereas he'll find it difficult to put characters like Pac-Man and Ridley. That is ultimately on him and his lack of creativity. Meanwhile, MultiVersus exists where LeBron James can battle against the Iron Giant. Arya is my main, and she plays nothing at all like a Fire Emblem character or does any of those moves in her TV show, but who gives a crap? There are many GoT fans and the MultiVersus team gave her many clever ideas that make her appealing to players.

The Rabbids being placed above Rayman is my villain origin story.

Funny enough, I drew out an entire moveset for Heavy Weapons Guy on how he could play in Smash. But if I’m going to be honest, creating a moveset for some characters can be difficult depending on which character you want in. In Heavy’s, I was able to do it through research of what he could do in TF2 and references to his appearances in the Meet the Team videos.

Every human being with at least an ounce of sanity knows that sonic needs at least one more rep in smash.

Shantae and Sans should be S tier and not just cause of their names We can use a true indie rep or 2 cause Steve is a Microsoft thing nowadays and the 2 received mii costumes that were on the Cusp of actually characters Eevee is also S tier, it's practically the 2nd mascot of Pokemon and I'd be dumbfounded if Liko or Roy doesn't het one in the next season of the Anime now that Ash is leaving, speaking of monster franchises Agumon vs Pikachu is all I need to die happy

"Im a sucker for vampires" very clever sir...

Interesting takes all around. Surprised and disappointed you didn’t talk about Reimu though, considering she’s around number 12 on the popularity list … would have loved your opinion on that

As a huge Celeste fan, I was never hoping she’d be a character, but was hoping for a costume with a song from the game Update: oops I’m a trans woman now

Phoenix and Hat Kid in F tier seemed really harsh. I get that Hat Kid isn't an extremely popular character and A Hat in Time isn't an extremely popular game, but the moveset potential is way greater than you made it out to be. And for Phoenix, someone else in the comments already pointed it out, but the large majority of his moveset in MVC3 directly references moments from the AA games and various actions he does in those games (even most of his normal moves are direct references to the game) so to say that his moves in MVC are "pulled out of nowhere" is just ignoring the source material entirely. I get that these moves don't exactly make the most sense for a fighting game, but characters like Villager and Isabelle are perfect examples of this concept working well in Smash. Other than that, I think that a case could be made for Conker, Ratchet and Clank, and Rayman to be bumped up a tier. I don't think Conker would have to be toned downed as much as you think (certainly not as much as characters like Doomguy and Scorpion), and the Smash 64 Remix mod has actually done an amazing job at giving us a detailed, playable glimpse at what his moveset in a Smash title could look like. I'm not too familiar with Rayman outside of the most recent games (Origins and Legends), but I'm sure there's no shortage of abilities and powerups from the various side games and spinoffs that can used to fill out his moveset, particularly his specials. As for R&C, I honestly think they could potentially end up being a more interesting and nuanced take on a trap/zoner archetype. Think Snake, but with much more dynamic and unique projectiles. Also I personally think that Crash could squeeze into A tier. There are a few entries in the CB series that have a 3D beat 'em up style of gameplay (Crash of Titans is one of them that I myself have played), and I think taking inspiration from those games could help prevent most of his normals/overall moveset from just being variations of spins and punches. Plus if they really want to get wacky with his moves, there's a lot of stuff from the spinoffs to draw from, similar to Rayman in that sense. Besides that, great video. I think you did a pretty good job of rationalizing and explaining each character's placement even when personal bias bled through. Jonesy in B tier hurts a lot and it hurts even more that I don't entirely disagree with it. :(