Thanks for sharing your data. :)

Better info summed up in few sentences than whole video. Ty and gj guy, sry video guy :)

what do you recommend for machine learning?

I was testing tensor flow for object recognition on rpi 4. Now it all makes sense for the fps thanks to you. Thanks bro. Will definitely consider jetson nano after this.

@@ralphjohnticsay8771 absolutely Jetson

Its based off of a totally different ARM core design, A72 was the 2019 ( mid to late ) high end in SBC's before the announcement of A76, ( snapdragon, RK3588 ).

I never expected them to get 4 A72s on the board as well as USB3 and DDR4 - for 35 quid. Released 9 months early too, with big memory options, dual hdmi, gl3/vulcan, h264 encoder... its unanticipated.

It's Christmas in July!

@@adymode The quad-core A72 was a little bit of a surprise considering the price, as you say. At the same time, it's not totally unexpected as the RK3399 has been out there for a couple of years. It looks like the A72 cores on a 28nm process is the compromise between price and performance. We've seen such examples as the RK3399, and the old mid-range Snapdragon 650 and 652, and now this. And the A72 being a few generations old already probably helps with the price as it's not top end of the line anymore.

@@randyhall5554 Judging by the availability of the 4GB model, Christmas might be delayed until August at least.

Indeed. In some ways it is a shame that the Pi 4 was released before this software fix, as a board that should be able to play 1080p KZfaq not being able to play it is not doing the Pi 4 any favours.

@@ExplainingComputers I've just been checking the raspberry pi forums and they have added a fix that you can update but the -disable-gpu flag is still enabled afterwards so you have to remove that manually and youtube should run better. www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=244585

older versions of raspbian as used on the 3b and 3b+ also have wonky video decoding support out of the box, which doesn't help

Just install Play with MPV, compile MPV with RasPi decoding support and play it in an external player. I do that on my desktop too because Chrome does not support NVDEC or any other hardware decoding on Linux. Should play 4K just fine.

Another thing, you CAN enable it. It's simply a line in the chromium configuration file. It's just that after you start playing a video, the entire browser freezes if you click anywhere. It's not exactly ideal

I've always rebelled against the trend. :) And next week -- a PC Linux video! :)

@@ExplainingComputers haha I've seen that, can't wait to check it out

@@ExplainingComputers Nice

Chances are your going to get more Ryzen / Navi tech since it looks like Navi is coming to Arm SoC's, it was going to happen and should shake up the sillyness that is binary blob drivers.

rockapartie Wendell at Level1Techs is quite good

Ken Alexander ..any first impressions on using both?

@@redpillsatori3020 For me it's all about the Linux learning curve....I can cook book my way through things and have done so on both the PI and Jetson. I'm astounded by the power of these small devices and can see many applications....I'm getting my parts and pieces together to build the JetBot project.....I'm not one to be able to pass judgement on either as I am so new to Linux but the PI seems much more "new user" friendly the Jetson is more intimidating has less avenues open to a beginner...

I agree.

It happened

@@Btray05Blogspot Not quite. It's in beta

Hi Dale. As you say, both of these boards could be used as a main PC, so a "Pi 4 Week" and "Jetson Nano" week have to be on the cards -- maybe when they both have improved software. And in two weeks time here I hope to have cracked cooling for the Pi 4.

/ yes! Great idea, looking forward to that project!

Explaining, not expanding.

dont forget the power savings. only 15W max compared to about 200W on a typical desktop. the power savings alone should recover the cost of pi4 in about 2 years. nost office / school / casual browsing work can be done with this.

@@fwefhwe4232 If power management is doing its job, an average modern PC should not be drawing 200w.

And I hope to talk to you again...very soon.

@@Flash136 LOL agreed!!

You may find interesting my cooling video on the Pi 4 next Sunday . . .

@@ExplainingComputers Yeet it into the freezer

True, but it's a very long way from learning Scratch and basic GPIO to implementing hardware video support. The former is literally child's play, while the latter is something I will never be smart enough to do, no matter how much of my life I burn up trying. The Raspberry Pi can start a poor kid on a journey of obtaining technological skill, even if it drops frames for a little while. Turning down the resolution won't hurt a KZfaq video's educational value.

Chris Brisson i think the pi foundation did a good job creating quality boards at such price points. its now upto the community devs to create on top of it. the GPUs are a headache on intel / amd too

I'd love to work on gpu driver code. The problem is that it's all locked up by patents and serious prison time if breached NDAs. No thanks. For that reason, VideoCore can be associated with sluggish, crap performance for all i care.

​@@whickervision742 "the patents contain no explicit statement of copyright (as is required for copyright protection in a USA filed patent)" found in github.com/hermanhermitage/videocoreiv/wiki/VideoCore-IV---BCM2835-Overview Does that not mean that either the patent is invalid, or it does not regulate any copyright for this code? And therefore it can be treated as open source / free-to-use&modify type of thing? I wasn't aware of any patent for this graphics driver. I know vivante gpu seems to be the only one at the moment with fully open patent, or royalty free, but that's on the hardware side. @ExplainingComputers what do you think? I would love if someone could hook the full stack of functions of OpenGL4, Vulkan, OpenGLES3.1 and Vulkan Mobile to this driver. Really, I'd be able to teach so many students how to deploy to such a platform which would be great for them, having their first project deployed in a standalone mini computer they can tinker with.

I agree with your assessment. The more I use the Jetson Nano, the more impressed I am with it. And if they do open out its target market with some broader CUDA support . . . We are also starting to see some great peripherals, such as those from Geekworm: geekworm.com/collections/nvidia

@@ExplainingComputers the peripherals are interesting especially the SSD shield. Can you please do a video about Jetson nano peripherals

We both homed in on the same thing! I will contact Geekworm I think.

*it's (not possessive)

@@alvallac2171 thanks for the grammar lesson

What that shows, like you say very clearly, is just what the USB2 bottleneck was doing for performance. Anyone struggling needs to read up on USB specification. The pi3+ has one US2 lane- FOR EVERYTHING! This made it a pretty crap NAS, which the Pi4 solves. But that bottleneck really harmed the Pi3+ because no amount of HATs/add-in boards were going to get around it. One odd NAS I made would slowly fill its SSD, then off-load that data via USB3 HAT much more quickly to a more fully featured NAS. The best use case I found for that design was around a Pi0 CCTV system, with the Pi3 acting as the server.

Don't put space before exclamation marks, or really any punctuation except: ( [ {

@@alvallac2171 Too late ! I have been putting spaces within my grammar for 68 years, and will not change now ! Have a nice day !

@@phildodd9942 My eyes!

CPU wise - A *pi 3* is roughly a single core of a pentium 4, but you have four cores, so maybe like a multi socket xeon. (I'd give a molar to have one of these while I was in college instead of some sun ultra 10 hardware) *Pi zero* is roughly a pentium II or III. But the ram and storage are much faster than the spinning disks of the time. *Pi 4*, I don't know .... one does NOT see a 3x increase in CPU performance generation to generation in PC world. Maybe it's in par with Intel core 2 or Nehalem That said, anything interesting on the Pi or other SBC is not going to be happening while running a desktop windowing environment, much less running a web browser. Raspian/noobs is for people who are COMPLETELY new to Linux and need something familiar.

@@johnsimon8457 I think the Kali Arm and Manjaro Arm guys would disagree with nothing interesting happening with a desktop.

@@johnsimon8457 Thing is I was very much involved in PCs back then, and as Chris says, it is all about systems. It makes the comparison meaningless. In some ways a Pi4 will be more advanced and in others still woefully lacking. Another problem is the fastest computer is the computer you currently own. And NOOBS is for new purchasers so they can install known to work software- someone coming from Windows won't notice any handholding because there isn't really any. In fact I'd say NOOBS adds confusion there. I've read the datas and the X3 thing is just a splash headline, sometimes it is over 3.6! Other times no improvement. If you sort of average it out, mash it about, and apply a sort of lightweight PC use case scenario X3 isn't correct but it isn't misleading either.

@kooky216 Great idea for a future video -- noted!

@@johnsimon8457 In comparison the socket 7 era AMD 500's could do a lot, but could not handle streaming from their older and handicapped instruction sets. I even think the socket A 462 is more powerful on the right board although Firefox so rudely stopped SSE support. I was surprised to see a RPI 1B+ could stream good on OSMC, although it was fun watching it chug and buffer streaming on Rasbian. That was with 1100 over clock. I regard X86 as a fleet of American triple trailer trucks, and Arm as a bunch of delivery drivers on mopeds that can only carry small items. So would it be fair to say that one could take the Arm core frequency and divide by 2? Well I don't think it would be that easy to judge performance without looking at the hardware and software that goes with a Arm cpu.

my pc is 29411

I dont belive you that you got 40k. I only got 16.4k with my Oneplus 6 and this is a high end Smartphone from last year.

Jonathan Lange I don't force to belive me. Type "octane 2.0 iphone xr" in Google and look for example to Apple Insider. They also got 40k, while Samsung got 23k. Javascript processing is just well optimized on A12 chip.

Welcome aboard!

No problem 👍

Thanks Perry. :)

hi can you guide among RP 4 , coral dev board and jetson nano which is best in terms of ML inference and ease of use?

@@noumanfaheem1928 I'm not sure what would work best for your particular application, but do you need opengl acceleration or are you working with multiple platforms? My thought above was from the pretty closed developer experience I had with Nvidia and how much specific knowledge I needed to develop with that platform. If you want to use just the jetson products for many things, it's still a really good platform. If you're focused on ML and want to use different libraries like pytorch too, nvidia might be the way to go. I hope that helps.

I would also buy a couple in case one has an issue, like the one I had, where it just didnt boot.

Thanks for the reply actually I am new to this field and still learning so i dont really know what open gl is but mys situation is I have an inception v3 based tensorflow model already developed for TB detection and I want to deploy it on hardware using real time xray images hope that clarifies my situation

That sounds like a very good deal. And it is a very good board.

I can only see one for £113 on Banggood as I just had to look and maybe buy one. Shame but I'm not paying that much.

Many thanks!

Sounds like you want an SBC like an Odyssey X86J4105: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ar6Ga8edq92ylGQ.html

Because it is intended for Edge Computing/AI and not as an Android Media Player?

That's not NVidia fault or problem. VLC uses its own codecs and these codecs for Jetson Nano are not using CUDA cores for video decoding. Also, I'm just wondering if EC has compiled custom version of VLC, because officially there was no 64 bits version of VLC for Linux on Arm.

Thanks for watching.

The Jetson Nano is a really, really nice board. The more I use it, the more impressed I am. Just make sure you have a decent PSU.

I have installed the update, but it was not available when I made this video.

@@ExplainingComputers ah, the unfortunate downside of videos. BTW, congratulations on the article in the next edition of MagPi!!! (The RPi 4 B edition at that!

This is so true. They should have included a heat sink too! :)

@@ExplainingComputers No kidding. I also wish that they would settle on the barrel connector for power for ALL of the Pi's. I understand that the newer boards require more power but why can't the good developers supply a single power supply so we hobbyists can buy one type of ps and have it work for all of the Pis for the foreseeable future.

You express matters perfectly. Given that (via VLC) the Pi 3B+ could play 1080p KZfaq very well (hardware accelerated), they really need to sort this out for the Pi 4.

*won't

Totally agreed.

Yes, they have made big software improvements since this video was made. :)

Now that would make a good video. Idea noted!

Just ran across lutris so I may have to go with Debian style. What I may have to do is go through wine and see how hard it would be to make it cluster aware.

Yes, when we (again) have USB booting on a Pi, it will be great!

you usually run an arduino with either the pi or jetson for low level control from my experience, so it's not really fair to put them in the same category

I will certainly update!

What a thought! They would be staggered.

HA HA ha haaa YES Earthling Keep Up The Good Work

@@ExplainingComputers As a voice from the past, I would say we would be very excited and happy rather than staggered. By the second half of the 1970s there were a variety of development boards available, which were in many ways similar to modern SBCs. For example, if I remember correctly, there was one popular model with an eight-bit Motorola 6800 cpu, about 512 bytes RAM and maybe 1 kB ROM, which was about the size of an A5 sheet of paper or a small table mat. The clock speed was about 1 MHz. People were really quite ingenious in the way they made use of every bit of RAM, and connecting up stuff to ports and interfaces on the boards. The previous generation from the end of the 1960s would have been a large suitcase-sized minicomputer weighing several tens of kg. So, we were well aware of Moore's law and its implications, and fully understood that an incredible technological revolution was in progress. I remember conversations with people at the time trying to explain this, and how exciting the future would be.

@Kevin Lee On the earliest computers that I used, we had punched paper tape, and punched or marked (with a soft pencil) cards. During the 1970s I did also see a few larger systems with magnetic tape and disc packs, but these were much less common. The discs were loaded in a machine resembling a large top-loading washing machine. By the second half of the 1970s, is became quite common to use compact cassettes for small systems. Nevertheless, we were aware of the possibilities that the future would likely bring, inspired by the physicist Richard Feynman who said that there is plenty of room at the bottom [APS, Caltech,1959].

Ty

Sadly not -- both currently lack USB booting. :(

You can boot from USB. I use that and i have no problems. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/a5mihbCjlq_Uh6c.html

I will indeed -- it will open up so many possibilities.

@@ExplainingComputers Would this be an ASIC solution?

I would point out custom gstreamer libs are already prepared for use

@@ExplainingComputers Projection mapping possibility for sure!

I want to have a media center PC running Linux. I want it to work out of the box. I am a Linux newbie. I have a 4K display, but nothing to drive it with. (The best I have right now is an Intel based Win 10 laptop that can display HD). I want to watch Netflix, KZfaq, etc. in 4K / 30 FPS. This video and a few other videos have been perfect for me, because I am zeroing in on the Raspberry Pi 4B & Jetson Nano. I will show my ignorance now. (Putting on flame suit). So the lack of FFMpeg integration is the cause of the dropped frames Chris was having in this review? When that gets fixed, will either one of these SBCs be able to do smooth 4K video streaming? Also, both SBCs reviewed here claim to have the ability to display 4K video. I guess 1920 X 1080 is the "basic" streaming standard today. The resolution that most people see when watching KZfaq, for example. And if a SBC can't handle that, then it certainly can not handle playback in 4K, right? Is that perhaps why Chris did not show any 4K streaming playback tests in this review? Refering to this video: NVIDIA Jetson Nano Review - Tegra X1 Single Board Computer Apr 9, 2019 ETA PRIME kzfaq.info/get/bejne/aLCbhNqmxLKqY58.html At 6:21, the author starting talking about using the Jetson Nano as a Desktop computer. He covered streaming video playback. Even though the Jetson Nano is rated as being able to display 4K at 30 FPS & 60 FPS, in the above video the author says: 6:50 - 07:09 "...but with 1080p the Jetson Nano has been amazing at least with this first release. As for 4k video playback online from KZfaq, it is a bit choppy, but that could be fixed down the road. This hardware has more than enough power to do it. So for everyday web browsing, 1080p video watching, this little device has been really awesome." 07:24 - 08:10 "...but for now this has been an awesome little board. As for native video playback, 720, 1080, and 4k 30fps have worked really well here. I see a little bit of stutter in this video. I test it on a lot of single board computers. This is the 30 FPS 4k version of Big Buck Bunny. But you got to keep in mind that it's still really early for the Jetson nano. Performance will improve over time. I also tried out the 60fps 4k version of the same video, and it's really not even where it's worth showing at all. It's very very choppy." So what exactly is holding back both of these SBCs? And in particular, the Jetson Nano? Is it the lack of FFMpeg integration? And that is just a software fix, right? It will not need a firmware update or re-write at all, will it?

Good result on the overclock. I will cover cooling options and show results in a video on July 21. I totally agree on keeping the systems updated -- this was done before these tests were run, but inevitably before 8th July, as the video posted on the 7th! :)

@@ExplainingComputers Chris, hope you are doing well my friend! Just an update. I increased the arm_freq=1800 & it still runs completely stable! Again the only cooling I'm using is the Pimoroni FanSHIM & that's it. I'm able to keep it around 58C under load.

Can you not do a bare-minimum Linux install without the GUI? Or can you strip down your current install by removing all the GUI packages?

Thanks.

No time line I'm afraid, but I get the impression they understand how significant it would be for opening up wider markets.

@@ExplainingComputers Thank you.

Pi 4 USB boot is not yet implemented -- but I am looking foward to it!

Right, true USB boot is not yet available for the Pi 4, but the 'next best' thing is. You can very easily alter the /boot/cmdline.txt file so as to have the boot process start on the SD card but then have the remaining boot process promptly resumed from the USB drive. I used a USB connected Kingston SSD to do just this. Boot times were reduced, but more importantly, responsiveness when editing web content within WordPress was greatly better. Of course, when true USB boot is available (soon?), I'll reconfigure things so as to eliminate the SD card entirely. www.tomshardware.co.uk/boot-raspberry-pi-from-usb,news-61081.html

I did for the video tests onwards -- see about 12:38 in the video.

*Jetson

Sorry, I think my graphic was perhaps confusing -- 4K in H265 only.