That's brutal to hear mate - yeah they've not done right by Victorian rugby fans like yourself

As someone who has watched them with a passing interest this year and last, it’s disappointing to see how few people know about them. And in regards to Victorian players, my perception is we have more victorians playing in SR than in the NRL which is even more disappointing that rebels haven’t been able to become viable.

It's because Super Rugby sucks. It is a fools paradise. No one watches state based sport in Aust, except for 3 SOO matches a year.

Welcome to my world as a die hard Cheetha fan it's been brutal for my team as well. Always playing second fiddle after the 4 big unions.

Its not just the rebels. Rugby in Australia and NZ is in real trouble. IMO its only hope is to give World Rugby the finger and start playing with our own rules and dont even do internationals other than between NZ, Australia and maybe oldschool tours of Australia/South Africa/NZ but doubt the boks would go with it. The real issue down here is theres no billionaires willing to buy a team of players like in europe so theres no crazy money in the game here. + ardern and her covid bullchit basically ruined the game here by stuffing the jaguars around now most of those players from argentina are up in europe playing for euro clubs so we've probably missed the opportunity and even if they get the jaguars back in 2026 it'll take years for them to get all the euro players back down if they even want too come back. Its no co-incidence the rebels are based in melbourne/victoria australias home of covid communist madness either imo. I dont see a solution (unless said billionaire pops up out of nowhere) where most pro NZ players dont end up in europe, dubai or japan (and japan would be the least worst case scenario).

Didn't expect a Lord of the Rings reference 😅 but it works

There is a "shall not pass" joke In there somewhere

Need Japan arentina or somebody. Ack to hopefully spark interest I suggested all stars mini comp 2 best teams each region face off 6 Europe 6 southern hemisphere

Yeah I think it'll be a mix of all those destinations aye

​@@TwoCentsRugby another stupid thing was the rebals where going to play the lions on the tour to Australia

I would say the cream of the Rebles players will end up in two places in N.R.L teams & going to play in The Top 14 in France where they will have everything. the average players will be divided between Super Rugby teams , Japan League One , U.R.C & English Premiership.

Yeah but the big 4 URC teams are miles ahead of the Cheetahs. They are currently in the same tier as the Pumas, Griquas, etc

@@christiaan2182 Honestly the depth in the SA pool is unmatched from Varsity Shield/Cup and in general. Sadly we just lack the funds otherwise the Cheetahs are still top tier infact the Pumas too would be great but alas money talks

@@christiaan2182 less we forget at some point cheetahs had just as many springboks if not more than bulls and stormers

@Faust_ZA Currently they are struggling though. I am from Bloem, they are playing games at the University and not at the stadium, because that place is a ghost town

I have tried to get in to A.F.L. a couple of times but times of the first bunce are the biggest problem most of the time I am in Scotland, the time difference with the times of a lot of the first bunces is just to great to overcome for me personally. So I end up watching N.R.L. the kick-off times are better for us in the Nothern Hemisphere for the vast majority of games. I dont find Super Rugby all that competitive for the most part, but this season had been an exception to the rule but no doubt next season Crusaders will be back dominating again. Glasgow Warriors are my team we live about an hour way from Scotstoun Stadium buy train.

Having seen some of the League One games from Japan, the quality of the games is great (could be a little better defensively). I like the Japanese model where the teams are based on a corporation. Players work for the company and many will move on to work for the company post rugby career. The financial side is more stable as u dont have to chase sponsors, the companies have deep pockets.

Without the Saafas involved they wouldn't have to play games in Singapore anymore. Would love to have them back.

I think there is more chance they bring back Jaguares geographically speaking because with the Sunwolves Super Rugby players where for ever complaining abhave to travel to Japan & back they did not complain quite as much about travelling to Argentina & back. Personally I think Sunwolves makes the most sense but I dont think players will buy in to that at all & without them you have no Super Rugby. So I think they bring back Jaguares or look elsewhere myb a franchise in Singapore for example.

No international teams and Australia being content staunching league and letting union burn

The Rebels were an ego project from the likes of John O'Neill

The fox has been in the henhouse for years but no one at ARU will fix the fence. The best talent play NRL and the ARU imports the deficit. It's a failing strategy since 2003.

During and post Superleague war, Rugby Union took advantage of League's darkest days. Yet Union didn't seem to notice that Aussie Rules was white anting them. The Swans and the AFL made huge gains in Sydney's Rugby union suburban strongholds and probably benefited more from the relegation of the North Sydney Bears.

Yup, and Forrest probably should have let the force perish in order to strengthen the other franchises. In fairness, Western Australia has the third largest number of registered players in the country, so the grassroots is decent, but it's location (isolation) makes it economically impractical to have a team there. Canberra should not have a team at all, they don't create players domestically, they simply recruit from states that do. Ideally there'd be 3 cities with teams (Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne) with teams able to take a bus or train to matches instead of flying.

@@Waywind420 The biggest love , supreme desire would for RA, would be that suddenly Forrest decided to move to Sydney or Melbourne. The problem they have is that he is a very parochial western Australian and has never expressed any idea to do so.

The Force did go the same way, but they were brought back in the COVID affected 2020 season.

The Force base fought for their team far more than the Rebels base. The Force got screwed by RugbyAU, the Rebels screwed themselves and Victorian Rugby.

Yeah man 5 sides in the end is probably too many. I was all for the expansion back in the day because I figured the talent would find ways to come through. But it's not happened quick enough and I think Aussie rugby has an issue with retaining fringe players who often take up offers abroad, which further dilutes the talent pool.

@@TwoCentsRugby for sure. They definitely are stretched too thin financially and for their talent pool. They do bleed players hard to overseas salaries and chances, and to other sports. Sad day for them, but hopefully it’s another wake up call to really work on themselves eh?

Why is our depth so bad... We are five times larger than NZ in pop 😅 you'd think we'd find enough grit.

Yeah man it's insane I'm sure Super Rugby attendances dropped across the board in that time too - but especially for the Rebels with lackluster results aye

Yeah man the Melbourne Storm have been a top side for so many years and even they don't sell out their stadium, so a poor Rebels side were always gonna be facing an uphill battle in that market

@@TwoCentsRugby even harder when your fans have to watch their team get pumped week in week out... Was really insightful seeing their results each season I never knew it was always that bad

Yeah man you usually see teams have a good and bad run aye. The Blues were crap but are now decent. The Reds have both won Super Rugby and been awful during the Rebels time - same with the Tahs. But the Rebels have generally just been poor to slightly below average

Yeah it's rough on the players and staff when they've been screwed over by the management. Looking at the bright side, I am just hopeful this means a boost to the remaining 4 teams if some of the players decide to stay in Australia

Yeah man can't go on leaking money every year

Melbourne is actually the biggest city in Australia Mel: 5,316m Syd: 5,185m

The Melbourne Storm succeeded off the corpses of the Western/Perth Reds and the Hunter Mariners, then they were bankrolled for years by News Ltd. RugbyAU tried a similar thing. The Rebels received millions more than the other Australia sides, and RugbyAU killed off another Perth team for Melbourne to feed off. So 2 times, a more deserving Perth side with no concessions, was killed off for a less deserving Melbourne side who were given plenty of leg ups.

Yeah when the Force were axed we saw a boost to the Rebels - I'm hoping for Super Rugby that this will be a boost to the other Aussie sides. Four might be the magic number. I like having the Force there too because rugby seems to have a bigger share of the sports market. Victoria is nuts with the number of teams they've got

@@TwoCentsRugby yes I think Western Australia has more potential for rugby union, because it doesn't have a whole other sports league dominating like AFL or NRL, and because a lot of Saffas, Kiwis and Poms moved there.

Yeah no NRL teams there (yet) - think two AFL teams in WA? Definitely a different story compared to Melbourne

Perth will have an NRL team within 4 years. The WA government is actively lobbying for it. The NRL's abort expansion in 2012 is why Perth's HBF Park redevelopment was paused after stage one. The WA govt needed the third tenant in the NRL (along with Super Rugby and A-League soccer) to make the full redevelopment viable. Hopefully completion is back in the cards in time for the NRL's return

Leinster fan here. Totally agree. The length of the season is another massive issue. I cannot fathom the URC going all the way into June. It's madness. Because we do well enough to mostly guarantee at least play off places we barely even register the urc here until the business end of the season. The 9/10 month season seems crazy, both financially for clubs and for players bodies.

The hundreds of thousands going to watch Stormers, Bulls and Sharks would disagree with you.

​@@daithioceallaigh7088 The primary revenue stream for almost all clubs is in ticket sales for games. I really can't understand the outrage here

Moving televised broadcast away from public broadcasters is not helping either.

@@daithioceallaigh7088 the URC is hardly to long. URC - 18 rounds Premiership - 18 rounds Super rugby - 14 rounds Top 14 - 26 rounds Top 14 is the most successful and profitable competition while also being the longest by far. -Every team plays each other home and away -relegation and promotion giving meaning to bottom table games -Great broadcast deals and funding for lower leagues improves overall competition and avoids a Zebre Parma situation Clearly long seasons are not the reason league lose money but it’s all the things they have missing which the Top14 has

Yeah man that's putting it mildly - they're AFL nuts there

the markets might not be packed but they’re pretty small, the potential revenue/fanbase would be limited. You would struggle to convince players to move there instead of the big 5 cities. Any expansion to place like that is likely to lose money and without a billionaire backer like twiggy at the force RA would have to brunt the costs and considering they’re insolvent atm I couldn’t see them going down that route.

@@HURLINGHQ-oz2yv You would think though that Darwin could get the PNG audience too (I know league is much more popular than union there right now). Hobart would get all the Tasmanian fans. Some of the NZ teams have very small catchment areas and crowds, but they do well on that (possibly because there is no competition from other sports). I think it might be worth a go rather than continued failure in markets where AFL, NRL, Cricket and Soccer are much bigger than union. It might be better to have 2 teams with 10-30k fans than empty stadiums in Melbourne every game. I just reckon that those two places actually having a major team would resonate more with the locals than a 5th choice sport in a bigger city.

⁠@@handsolo1209it comes down to balancing the books. The AFL’s 19th is going to Hobart/Tasmania which is Aussie Rules territory. Even with that there are questions whether players will move down to Tasmania and questions if the team will ever be sustainable/profitable. If the AFL is struggling in Tasmania it would be financial suicide to put a Union team in a market like Darwin. Unless there was an individual/organisation willing to fund it.

Super Rugby should be operated more like the European champions cup (or the challenge cup). Qualification based with national League teams from several countries (AU, NZ, JP etc ..) getting in based on the domestic league performance. Much like how English, French, Irish, Italian, Saffa etc... teams qualify up north

well said I'm a Hugh supporter of national professional demestic rugby throw out and do away with the super rugby model is not working and should be scapped get ridd of it with a national professional demestic rugby championship for AUSTRALIA at the state level have a eight state sides like in all state of origin or state of the union clashes an all out Australian affair a championship like there are 14 rounds and 7 away games and 7 home games per team each then a top 4 then the grand final that's a total average of 14 and 16 games per team a year and each rosters per teams can have Top Australian local players and Wallabies and mix it up with international players and stars from around the World as well as well as All Blacks playing in these teams to give it a Australian and International flava to the championship and will give a tribalism feel to it as well the teams are Queensland Reds New South Wales Waratahs ACT Brumbies Victoria Rebels Tasmania Jack Jumpers South Australia. Black Falcons Northern Territory Mosquitoes Western Australia Force these state side teams each run and managed both the mens and the women's and are sponsored and are independently owned by private millionaires or billonaires or investment groups independent from Rugby Australia and manage there own board cast media platforms and online internet.social media Rugby Australia should just look after The Wallabies and The Wallaroos all age groups rugby for both agendas at international test level who are owned by a group of private investors or millionaires what ever both Rugby Australia and the new National Professional Championship Rugby and the eight fully professional state side rugby teams as 50 / 50 partners what ever extra profit they make they put back or funded into grassroots rugby being amertuer clubs and schools rugby for rugby redevelopment both Rugby Australia and The Eight State sides union teams 50/50 partners also own and run grass roots rugby and lower levels down to increase the growth of rugby within the eight state unions and the whole of Australia rugby landscape for NEW ZEALAND scrappe the five super rugby franchises teams of Nz and go back to the provinces have there own national domestic rugby championships at the provincial level which is on the same level as the state level in Australia rugby there are 27 rugby provinces teams all need to be professionally run independent from NZRFU and need to be privately own by investment groups these 27 teams are then divided into three independent national championships there are 8 teams in say the division three championship and nine teams in the division two championship ten teams in the division one NPC Championship or Bunnings Rugby Championship there automatic relaxation / promotion between the divisional championship in the first division of the Bunnings NPC Rugby Championship top New Zealand local players and All Blacks and international players from all over the globe are in these teams which can give to Wallabies playing in these teams the teams Northland Taniwha North Harbour Knights Auckland Blues Counties Manuka Steelers Waikato Cheifs King Country Rams Hawkes Bay Magpies Wellington Hurricanes Canterbury Crusaders Otago Highlanders NZRFU or New Zealand Rugby Football Union professionally runs The All Blacks at all the international test level the provinces runs themselves but both 50/50 partners to run and fund and own grassroots rugby in New Zealand THE SUPER RUGBY CHAMPIONSHIP a 12 team tournament like the top 6 rugby teams from the Australia national championship face off against the top 6 rugby teams from the New Zealand Bunnings NPC Rugby Championship format can be straight round ore two pool groups of .6 teams each pool a 3 Aussies 3 kiwis teams in the other pool b group of 6 teams 3 kiwis and 3 Aussies teams and so on these are just ideas

Yeah if they were cutting... Moana Pasifika is the side that doesn't really have a base just yet.... I am sure they are the least profitable. However I seem to remember their existence is partly due to World Rugby's backing? To create pathways for Pacific players, so maybe they'd be safe?

If that were to happen it would most likely be either the Force or Moana Pasifika. The Force have been cut from Super Rugby before but have since came back.

@@TwoCentsRugby Moana have the backing of World Rugby so they aint going anywhere for now if we had to go to 10 it would be the Brumbies that get cut as they and the Tahs have a shitload of Debt but RA is run by Sydney Old Boys and the Tahs are the golden child that have to be protected

@@cooperc69420 Force have the Backing of Twiggy they aint going anywhere

No, just Aussie Rules. League has forged itself a tiny niche in Melbourne due to the ridiculous good onfield achievements of the Melbourne Storm. God knows what that will look like if/when The Storm has a few lean years

Yeah guys like Tupou, Kellaway etc will no doubt get good offers from abroad. Some of the squad players probably pick up gigs in Australia

@@TwoCentsRugby rumors where leinster where interested in tupou let's see if that happens

Not for a while man - what's up? Jaguares news?

@@TwoCentsRugby That's right 👍

Ok cheers, I'll have a wee look!

He usually knows what is happening concerning the UAR.

It'll be interesting to see if they go down that route. Part of the reason NZ was pushing for a contracted comp was to reduce the travel and keep the time zones tighter. That plus which players the Jaguares would be able to recruit - I imagine a lot of the top players are contracted to European clubs for the next few years

​@@TwoCentsRugbyYou'd think they would axe the force if that's the case

​​@@TwoCentsRugby I feel another island nation is better then jaguares because they have a super rugby Americas and it would damage the growth of the game in South America. Plus the money in Europe is better for the top players that where in the jaguars

That'd be good news for Aussie rugby if he stays

20 million in debt.. yeah it's tough to come back from there aye

@@TwoCentsRugby do any teams "make" money for their investors/owners?

That's definitely an issue for the administrators to work out aye

Got to be realistic about the travel, just cant see that happening.

@@tonylittle3508 yeah but it would be interesting, if they could figure out a way to do it

@@rafflesiaandfriends Defiantly need more teams and other countries competing But New Zealand and Australia is just way too far away from every other countries. If USA or The European countries were nearby Super Rugby could easily add more teams and good chance they could of too if that was the case. Unfortunately all those countries you mentioned would just be way too much traveling all taking at least half a day just to fly there from New Zealand and Australia, if wasn't that far away then absolutely that could easily be possible. The only ways to add more teams for Super Rugby to make it work in my opinion is either try and bring back the South African teams, or add few teams from Argentina, or could add a few more pacific Island countries since they aren't far to travel but since their economy is pretty poor that will be hard to make that work plus they need a proper home base to play they cannot have them playing at random locations like the Moana Pacifica, could add a few more Australia teams based in Hobart Tasmania, Adelaide (South Australia) plus more but at the same don't know about having too many Australia teams in the comp. Could even try convincing the Southern part of Asia to create a few rugby teams to enter super rugby but at the same time they do need to be competitive.

THat dosnt make much sense. Richer companies propping up smaller countries makes the competition more profitable? How? Are the poor companies gonna sign lucrative tv deals with local networks?

Good reminder 🙏

Isn't the Japanese league more profitable than super rugby? I don't think they would want to join.

Sydney is the biggest city. Melbourne is the second biggest.

@@khankake9576 Melb has bigger population as of March 2024

Imagine if they won the bloody thing! (dreaming I know, but imagine)

How can it be good for Australia, less players getting exposure

@@ant208 They were losing so much money. Playing one sided losses in front of empty stadiums was a terrible look for the competition. Some players might miss out, but the best will rise to the top. They still have 4 teams. Australia were the best team in the world when they only had 3. The other teams will be stronger with the wallabies from the rebels added to their sides. And the wallabies will be better since the players will be more used to playing together.