I love the fact that Colin can own and say it was him missing and not blaming the gun and its accessories.

I've been shooting pistols for 35 years. Transitioning to the red dot wasn't easy, but good golly it was worth it.

Great conversation. As an “older” shooter I find getting a proper focus with iron sights getting to be more difficult. Affects my ability to focus on the sights and accurately hit at distance. Transitioned to an RMR and now I can see the dot, and place it squarely on target. For me, worth the expense. Does take some practice to learn to put the dot in my field of view on draw.

For what its worth I also had the same issue with the first red dots I have used. The single dot communicates too much of my unsteady hands. I've since moved to circle dot reticles, this basically helps stabilize the view, and I now love red dots and they have significantly improved my stage and drill times.

Train with both. Don’t rely on one only. Circumstances can change so learn, adapt and overcome.

I love the simplicity and reliability of iron sights, breath and trigger control and you should be fine. No batteries, no fragile optics or electronics to go wrong at the worst time.

10:30... rain is also an issue, had it with RMR and Holosun 508T, if you catch a rain drop on the actual diode glass, it's over, there's no longer any usable dot until you wipe it off, another reason for suppressor height sights.

A larger moa dot may benefit Colion's shooting style and conceal some of the "movement" in the sight he spoke of.

I’m going to be getting into the RMR world soon with my next pistol. This was a great conversation on the pluses and minuses. Great video.

The trick to red dot shooting is focus on target right above red dot primarily and see red dot secondary. The exact opposite of iron sight shooting. You won’t be focusing on movement of red dot which calms your mind for more confident trigger pull. I got this from high level competition shooters and it improved my consistency a noticeable degree.

Great stuff guys, I enjoyed watching and it’s always good to hear different perspectives.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. I have been wondering the same thing myself. Much appreciated.

I carry a pistol primarily for self-defense concealed and I would never think about putting some giant obstructive sight on top of it. Now my other pistols that are primarily for range shooting that's a completely different story

I shoot both, but definitely see the advantages of the red dot. It’s a steep learning curve to master the presentation of the weapon and acquiring the dot all the time, but that is a training issue. As for the “movement” of the dot, recently Larry Vickers did a video about the “Wobble Zone”, and it provides a very interesting point of view about this issue, and it changed the way I looked and thought about it.

I prefer ironsights on everything, but may go red dot or ACOG on rifles or carbines. I need to unlock more XP to equip them though.

Excellent discussion between you two on this helpful topic. Thank you!!

Installed Acro on my P10C. I just freaking love it. It made me shoot much better and faster. One thing I noticed that if I pulled the gun and just checked dot against a target, I automatically lined the dot. If I pulled on target, I missed the dot. The problem is just the mindset where you believe it pretty much shows itself.

I just ordered my first pistol RDS. I’m looking forward to both learning a new skill and getting more practice in.

On my carry, i rely on irons, fiber optic front/blacked out rear. I keep that skill and reliability separate from the full sized pistol that has all the fix ins and a dot. I do love the amazing potential with a dot because like talonsei said, it does make you more mindful of your trigger pull but also other mechanics that’ll aid in target acq

Really enjoyed this vid. In fact watched it twice. Something I noticed about this particular vid, is the firing of the guns didn't seem nearly as loud as it does in most other shooting vids. That was kind of cool, and allowed me to concentrate more on what was being said. As far as the fog issue is concerned, just clean it with RainX. It won't allow fog on the surface of the glass. My purpose is more for defense, and thus not really convinced about the red dot just yet. Instead I just mounted the HiViz fiber optic sights, which are really great, without worrying about things like fog or battery life...

Having suppressor height iron sights is an absolute must if you run a red dot on your pistol IMO. For one, so you have a backup if your red dot battery dies, and the other reason being so that you can find the red dot easily and consistently because suppressor height iron sights will actually help guide you to the red dots so you don’t have to keep moving around your pistol to find it. That’s my experience at least.

I was about to give up on my red dot. But I think watching these videos have given me something to strive for and may be happy I hung in there once I get it.

Another excellent post, interesting bit about the red dot screen fogging in transition form AC vehicle storage to a warm humid outdoor environment.

So cool looking. So expensive. I don't know where I stand on red dots on pistols because I'm poor 😅

Love this chill content !!! Especially with talon sei on !!!

Glad to hear I’m not the only person who has issues with the over representation of movement when using a dot sight

I view guns as tools. My handguns are specifically for close quarters defense. All the guns that I trust with my life have fixed combat sights. They don’t interfere with holsters or draw and most importantly, I know they will always work.

I have been shooting for 40+ years, I learned on a "Wheel Gun"...shot competitively (PPC 1500). I won the first match I ever shot with a score of 1478 out of a possible 1500 and 110 X rings out of a possible 150, winning a Gold Medal at the Police Olympics with a S & W Model 10 Revolver(24 shots were from the 50 yard line). I am pretty good with iron sights. A few years ago I started shooting red dots and really liked it. I ended up selling all my Trijicon RMR's and started using Holosun HE508T's...now all my carry pistols have Holosun Circle Dots!!

nice to see Talon, one of the first guys that got me into guns. kinda lame to see you didnt include a link to his channel tho

2 of my favorite youtubers in the same video cant go wrong here

I'm getting my first ever pistol with a red dot on it and I never thought about it fogging up. Your videos are awesome

I’ve trained for years to be able to work my sidearm in close quarters by using the angles of the iron sights and even edges of the slide and stacking sights, giving me the ability to shoot in some very awkward positions with decent center mass accuracy, I mounted a RDS on my pistol to give it a try and had zero problems getting used to the sight, however, I cannot maneuver and work the angles with the RDS like I can with the irons so I took it back off I’m back to irons, much more efficient to my style of shooting as I am not limited by that small window being able too see the dot.

I'm 53 and have been shooting irons for over 35 year on rifles and pistols. I went with a 19 MOS last March with a vortex venom and really like it. I still need practice but am getting better with it. I dry fire practice on the regular. The only thing I might change in the future is the red dot but I'm happy with my set up for now. I do believe the red dot is the future.

I recently bought a Sig P226 Legion RX. My 1st red dot pistol. So far I'm digging it 😎. IMO, there something that really needs to change over the next few years. These companies really need to come together and standardize the foot print. I honestly think it would be beneficial for all if they did.

After shooting with the dot for a while I feel I can hold the irons sight super steady. I like going back and forth. I have been getting much better at tracking the dot.

I have a single RMR in my collection, mounted atop a P10F. I enjoy the RDS and use it on my home defense setup. I've tried carrying with an RMR, but I'm not sold on the idea for CC.

Good discussion. I’ve found that using your trigger finger, on the presentation as your pointer, to get on target my dot is there. Going from iron to red dot, to me, is mussel memory as you had trained with the irons, practice. Your eye, or eyes are fully open, but a little higher on the rear of the weapon which seems and is different. Practice is the key. To me the benefit is that both eyes are open and looking down range on my target and painting the target with the red dot. I have full view of the situation and not struggling with a two point alignment. I’m faster getting off with the dot and a more smoother trigger pull, again not struggling with a two point sight, and concentration is all down range, not at my hand. I do not co-witness so my trigger finger drives my acquisition and depending on range my combo light/laser is on target. A note, I zeroed my laser first and then my Red-Dot and at my chosen range (30-50 feet) I can always verify my zeros as they are on top of each other as a reference. Mussel memory and practice the presentation is key.

Great video, very intuitive!

Great video. Thanks guys.

As a scrub with light pockets I like a compact do it all piece for CC, Home D, and travel protection. Red dots on concealed pistols are super likely to snag and imprint. And seems redundant when you have a light laser attached.

Great video, big fan of both guys! I'm just starting out in tactical pistol shooting. I have two pistols one with a red dot and the other without. I agree that the red dot works better for me on long range shots, and not so well on the quick draw rapid volley shooting. I'm sure my lack of experience is a factor too. Working hard at keeping true to the fundamentals of pistol shooting. Either way I'm having a lot of fun testing out the theories.

Great Video guys!! Thank you!

My 65 year old eyes make it difficult to find my front site. Therefore I think it’s the best thing for me.

Thanks again Colin for another great video. I just bought a Glock 19 with a red dot. I don’t know why but I did. After watching this I now know I need more shooting time before it’s my edc

I just started shooting and I really like red dot not just for capabilities but mainly for form training. The red dot tells me when I'm doing things wierd. Moving gun when pulling trigger some kinda way, how breathing or not breathing changes aim, or something with how I'm holding gun.

Love the red dot on my home defense shotgun. I have not tried a red dot on pistols yet. I ordered a Holosun 507k but backorder is crazy long wait.

This is an interesting conversation. I learned on basic sights. And I am still not convinced that I should make the conversion.

I like this conversation. So I have a Holosun 507k that I bought a few weeks ago but I actually took it off my carry gun for the time being.andnright after my first range outing with it... I figured I would very quickly be a better, faster shooter with a dot but found out when I took it to the range and zeroed it that I was neither as fast or accurate as using my night fision perfect dots. I see the potential to be better being there, but I was surprised that it wasn't after a few hundred rounds.It was funny because the one I put on my AR years ago proved to be very effective immediately after getting it zeroed. Unfortunately, due to the ammo shortage I cannot afford to blow through my meager reserves practicing live atm, so back on the irons went and my shiny new Holosun is languishing in my safe. Totally sucks, but even though after practicing dry I have quickly overcome any issues finding the dot on draw, I am still not confident enough with my abilities over irons to trust it as my carry sight. Maybe one day I will be able to buy 9mm for less than 30$ q box and get back to actually shooting more regularly.

I love watching these kinds of videos!!! Mixing the KZfaqr community!!!

Love your videos. Please review the SAR9 . and thank you for all you do to inform and protect OUR 2A.

I need to know where this range is! That setup looks AWESOME.

I love content creator collaborations!

I didn’t like the Romeo zero to hard to change intensity. Replaced with holosun 507k love it with the 32 mil circle. I Keep a can of compressed air handy to clean pistol and red dot of lint and dust especially my everyday carry gun.

Great video!

Thank you!

New to shooting here. I have a holosun 507c and I love it. It helps with me being right handed and left eye dominant. I know I need to train more. But I like it, that's what matters.

My old eyes like the thought of red dots but LOVE my laser! I anticipate defensive pistol use at close range. I love my Viridian light/laser that automatically turns on when drawn.

Love red dots on range guns where I'm shooting stationary targets anywhere from 5yds to 100yds. But will never have one on a self-defense handgun. Irons are faster and plenty accurate at self-defense range.

My AR-15's came with red dots with no iron sights. Easy to site and shoot. My new M&P Performance Center C.O.R.E pistol has suppressor level sites so the red dot can co-witness with the steel iron sights. I have been strongly considering the Holosun red dot for my M&P.

nice video thanks guys

My 2 favorite GunTubers!!

Hellyea you guys should collaborate more I really enjoyed watching this thanks fellas

I’m near Dallas I have never seen that range.. looks like too much fun

deal breakers for red dots on defensive pistol: 1. print in the summer months. Considerably more than irons, depending on where you carry (and how.. hm.. big you are?) 2. get caught in clothing when you draw from compromised positions/one handed This is something you will almost never see on the flat range, unless you look for it, but practice drawing one handed in the car, and even some iron sights and hammers (!) catch. You really get the point of "snag free" sights - and the red dot will catch like crazy.

You may have done one but if not i would love to see you do a video on Recoil Control especially when double tapping. I've seen some guys shoot as fast as they can and stay on target and I'm struggling with that.

I appreciate the thoughts. I am old school and iron sight trained. I just bought my first red dot platform and I am not sure if I hate it or not. Thats why I appreciate your input. Everything about my pistol redot is cumbersome and bulky. Iron sight are just so intuitive and wash and wear to me. Red dots are well.... not so much. Yes, I am a hypocrite - my long arms (at least my Ak's and AR's) have optics that work well for me....SMH

Great video

Great video! But I can't help wonder if all of those tires are a ricochet hazard? I have had more than one bullet bounce off of a tire.

Another great video. Thanks. Have you tried Cat Crap anti fog on your red dots? I hear it works well.

Thanks

Thinking of moving to Optics for pistol in the future especially when I get older and eye sights slowly deteriorates but just not sure the improvement would be enough to justify it right now. There would be a new learning curve when you are so used to iron sights.

My zev slide with rmr has 1/3rd co witness with regular sized sights! Zev makes best glock cuts for rmrs

Item was as described and arrived in excellent condition

you bring up alot of great points but i think you should check out holosun with their ring reticles with the ability to have just the ring or the dot or both. with just the right it should ease up on that accuracy anxiety up close at lease.

Put an Trijicon RMR on my FNX 45 tactical a while back, still find my self looking for iron sights, and co-witnessing. Won't spend the money on another one. Just put a fiber optic front sight on, or TFX pro. Love my CZ shadow 2, the front fiber sight is quick to line up. Don't need the extra bulk of the RMR. The Cmore red dot on my Tang 10mm is mounted to the frame which I believe keeps it on target better. The glass is larger than the RMR, and that seems to make it easier finding the dot. Just a lot bulk. Looks cool though.

I use a red dot trijicon SRO for my competition gun (shadow 2), nothing can beat red dots in terms of speed. But I carry a P365 iron's, because of simple ease. When it comes to self defense, I don't trust technology cause it is bound to break irons won't ever break.

Just got my 1st red dot and im pretty eager to zero it and try it. The current ammo situation is just my biggest holdup

One’s named Colion Noir.. the other, Talon Sei... I need to get me a cool shooter name to go along with my guns! 🤔😂

Just put a Romeo 1on my FNX. 45 thanks guys saw the sig video done at Sig HQ (Colion) Will be doing the 3, 5, 7 ,15 yard dial in tomorrow

Pretty cool video...from what I noticed you guys weren’t hitting much with the red dot, so what’s the big deal! I practice point and shoot when I’m at the range, cuss that’s what’s going to go down when a shtf scenario happens.

Check out the Forward Controls Designs MOS plate.

Top info

The swampfox kingslayer is pretty cool too... and its affordable for us commoners.

Some people using a M4 in the military have been running ACOG with no back up irons for a long while now. Thats how much there trusting there reticles. I personally wouldnt try that, but to each there own

great video🔥🔥🔥

I have always said you should learn how to first shot irons before you go RMR. This way if you ever need be you can always fall back on irons. My pistol has raised irons so when/if I do go RMR and say my batteries die I can still see my irons through the glass. I have yet to use a RMR on my rifle or pistol since I am still mastering irons but I def see the advantages of red dots.

Next up: ACOG on a pistol

I've never used the small RD I have older big lens on my Ruger 22/45 , it takes me longer to find the dot . But I have the small Eotech on my Remington 870 slug master and it is awesome . #4 buck is almost perfect in the outer circle and puts slugs on the dot . I have a Bushnell red dot on my Bushmaster Predator and it puts me right on when I bring it to my shoulder with both eyes open . I might like the small pistol red dot can't say till I try one . I love them on long guns , not so much on pistols .

I dig the chill & natural conversation. Not the usual scripted content

Red dots on pistols is good when your eyes start to go, but also your application. I noticed when I added one, everything I would do wrong would be more obvious and I began to focus way to much on key-holeing rounds vs. placing effective rounds on tgt. Red dots on pistols are good but just not my preference, I prefer irons. Good vid and chat. Cheers.

Just started running a romeo zero on my hellcat $179 on sale...good starter reflex

Two of the best shooters in the game in my book. Colion is a humble dude to be able to admit his errors in shooting in this video. He's awesome!

Another great video.

Great vid, guys!🇵🇷

Looks cool.

This was such a cool video

I learned on iron sights. I've never used red dot on a pistol, but now I want to try it. Who knows, I may agree with not liking the movement on target.

I'm a iron sites guy, however, I just purchased the new PDP from Walther and many gun enthusiasts are saying that this handgun is awesome with a Red Dot. So, I bought the Vortex Viper. I'm not sure what to expect. 😬😬

I like red dot sights, have them on pistols, a shotgun, and an AR. Ive become so used to them that it just feels kinda strange and fun, in a throw back to the old timey sorta way, to shoot a gun with iron sights. It's almost kinda harder, more challenging to shoot irons well after you've learned the dot.

I struggle with trigger anticipation. Just put a holosun 507c on my czp10c. Haven't shot it yet.