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John always looks like you've told him a dad joke and he's trying not to laugh

John's shed looks like a peaceful place to hang out 🥰

The 351 Cleveland is named after the Brook Park, Ohio, Cleveland engine plant, and the 351 is named after the factory in Windsor, Ontario (Canada). The 351C is a 335 series engines were used in mid- and full-sized cars and light trucks. While the 351W was for lighter cars and 1/2 ton trucks. Both engine block share the same bore spacing. So taking a 302 Windsor block and and adding the 351C heads to it created a 302 Boss engine that was used for Trans Am racing. Ford may have used the "5.0" moniker to distinguish the 302 from their 300 cu in (4.9 L) inline six, which was known as the 4.9.

Glad to finally get an explanation on the origin of the 8 ball, been watching you guys for a few years and had no idea😂

Wow, in 1980 I rebuilt a 351 Cleveland motor for a 1968 mustang coupe. It had the 4V heads with HUGE intakes. We CCed the heads and triple ground the valves, it was a monster. We lifted the front tires on a street car with the motor. Sadly, it all got stolen within a year or two. It would be very nice to have that motor back, and it’s nice seeing this. The 3V heads are very evidently smaller intake ports. Thank you very much for the memory.

Good to see a bit more of John‘s Ute.. Very interesting setup.. I have had a all pressure problem the same as you were speaking of before.. Turns out it was because running an electronic all pressure gauge was being interfered with when the trans-break was let go the voltage surge from the trans-break solenoid was sending the gauge to zero.. It wasn’t actually an all pressure problem

Can’t wait to see what she does on the dyno

Excellent as always! I really dug the part where John exhales a metric ton of air from his respiratory system. I know, I know. You guys already know about it. Cheers, mates!

Great episode as always! Love seeing you guys work on engines, so much great info. A tip for the audio, get one of those movie clapper boards and record the mics on different tracks. This way you can both level the mics separately, or even take one track out, and do colour grading as they have a colour grade as well. This way you can leave the mics on and just mute them, so you don't hear the other mic like when John was unpacking boxes.

Awesome episode. The Xs in the block would have been on the bottom side of the sandcore to assist in turbulence in the molten iron to help the valley floor to cast correctly. We used it on our dies at CASTALLOY help correctly fill certain areas.

When we hotted up our Holden red motors back in the day, we got the pushrods filled at the top and re-drilled with smaller holes for the solid lifters. This was a simple fix to reduce oil flow especially if the bottom end wasn't opened. If we did open the bottom end Vandervell bearings went in, modified with full grooves. This was a common thing for us in Launceston back in the 70s where Merv Gray did all the good stuff.

Seeing this makes me want another Cleveland in my life ❤️ best engine Ford ever made other than the 460.

The first 351ci I played with was my 1978 Ford F150 with the 351ci Modified Engine and the first 351ci Cleveland I assisted with the rebuild was in a 1970 Mach 1 Mustang. That engine with the B&M shift kit was one fast Mustang. Thanks for the reminder of days gone by.

This garage is absolutely gorgeous.

Cleveland and Windsor are Ford foundries. Ford was in competition with other manufacturers in the horsepower race. The Cleveland was an experiment to make a stronger block with better flowing heads to keep up. 351c is about 40 lbs heavier than the 351w. Australia got the best heads, closer chamber 2V heads. We either had to use port fillers or shave down our 2v heads, or pop up pistons to increase compression.

20:16 a 302ci block is actually 4.949L so for most people it should be a 4.9L, but for marketing shiggles on the Windsor it was bumped up.

Awesome seeing an old school muscle engine on the show boys!! Throw a few more in this season 👌

John is the quintessential engine builder. Surgical cleanliness, and knows his specs.

I love the Cleveland had a 351 in my XB Coupe in the day great engine can't wait to see the numbers

Your comment about the oil ending up in the top of the engine bought back memories. When I was drag racing an EH Holden with a red motor back in the ‘70’s we used to put pipe cleaners in the pushrods to stop all the oil ending up in the rocker cover. I don’t know if it made any difference but it made us feel better :-)

Alan, the 4ma crank is the same steel as the plain crank, the difference is, these cranks were thoroughly crack tested in the Ford plant and then stamped 4MA on them, then used in the 4V engines.

Finally!!!! Thank you for the back story on the 8 ball! hahaha up the Clevo!

Great episode, so much knowledge, John is a legend. Looking forward to seeing the Ute on the Hoff's dyno!

Canted valves are to unshroud them from the cylinder walls to flow more on the wall side.

Nice work love the build and all the videos keep it up. we run a old predator carbie 330-930cfm on a 351 it’s an unreal set up easy to tune has cams not jets. Motor was out of xc gxl had all gt gear in it etc 4v heads 4mab crank.

Engine building episode with John are 🔥🔥 More of it please 🖖🖖

Love watching engine getting Have watch my old man build Holden red motors and sbc when I was a kid and I still enjoy watching engines get build

Best intro yet! So audibly perfect!

302ci is 4948.89 - as racing adopted litre limits (over cubic inch), the litrage must always be a "rounded up" value. eg. If you're allowed 5.0 litre in the V8 class, you can't have a 5.01L engine (just like if you're in a 4.9L class, you can't run a "4.9L" Cleavo). It's the same reason a 6.2L LS3 is actually 4.065 x 3.622 = 6.162L. All listed engine capacities are now rounded up to the litre capacity. That's my theory, at least.

thanks for the 8ball explantion!! I've been wondering!

Sick Cleveland!!! Love the 3V head... I’ve been relegated to filling in the 4V head ports a few times.. as I’ve done two years of life drawing and sculpture. Lols🤜🏼🤛🏼🇦🇺🍀🍀🍀😎

Surely do a build soon with the boss 260 that woody so kindly let us know he has sitting around !

Thank you al and woody

Ford crank was referred as Nodular Iron Crank..

Crank = Nodular iron as opposed to grey cast iron. C250 = Carbon steel with a yield point of 250MPa 302 and 351 Windsor, same architecture but different deck height to each other. 302 and 351 Cleveland, same deck height as each other (bit shorter than the 351W). Different architecture to the Windsor, though a lot of parts swap with a little work. Not a truck engine. Was meant to replace the Windsor, but Americans didn't like it. AU stuck with it. 351M and 400M are the tall deck height "truck" engines based on the same architecture as the Cleveland but virtually nothing swaps. 3V = 2V inlet and 4V outlet originally, but now they've got CHI do their own thing with regards volume

"With my rag top down so my hair can blow" Al showing his true Vanilla Ice roots :D

My dad was a mechanic on a super stock dragster ford ute called the mobster in the 80s had black livery but with mobster written down the side in silver with a ols school mobster poc with a guy smoking a cigar I wouldve been only 10 years old we'd follow in the pick up car after down the strip..orsm build guys brings back memories.

Love the content. Always nice to go a bit more in depth on the engine. How thick are the copper headgaskets John is using?

4ma cranks have a higher nodular iron content, the free carbon within the iron , is in spheroidal or nodular form,it is very important that the journal surface is micro polished after machining. Also run fully groved main bearing when running a stock type crank due to the "oil clocking " of the big end bearings,mainly number 2 and 7. or an aftermarket crank. (see Chris Fin, Ford Cleveland oil problems exposed ) all 351c boss motors came from the factory fully grooved. The XXXXX and YYYYYYs by the lifter bores i believe were to reduce cracking in that area,common in the 351m and 400 blocks.good work guys looks like a weapon.

Ford 351 4V Cleveland was primarily designed from the start as a performance engine. The 2V heads was a way to make it more versatile engine in fords line up of new engines. Ford was replacing the FE engine line up as it was an expensive engine to manufacture and had come to the end of its engineering life cycle it was also a engine family with a massive parts inventory=big cost in casting and machining and confusing for the parts counter. Cleveland 335 series engines took over performance duties for small and medium size US cars 429-460 385 series engines took over bigger pick ups and large cars Ford found a need for a engine to take over the FE390 C.I.D size and made the 400 Cleveland Then demand for medium size V-8 engines went up massively and both the windsor and Cleveland plant couldn’t keep up to demand so the 351 modified was born basically a 400c with a 351windsor crank fitted straight in!!! new rods/pistons bang done a stop gap engine. 351 windsor was a light duty truck motor primarily but used in medium size vehicles as well hence the 3” main bearings(it was the 351w that was the truck engine not the 351c even though the 351C made into trucks later in life). Imported 289 302 Windsor’s where used in Australia 1967 up to late 1971-2 and replaced with a locally made 302 Cleveland from mid to late 1972 on. Despite all this the 351-302c have been used in almost everything in Australia from small compact performance cars(Bolwell’s Nagari) all the way up to big heavy f150-f250 based ambulance’s

Cool video guys. The 4MA is the 1st factory 351 US crank made, the revised version was the 4MAB, and the best (although heavily debated) crank is the ARDIAE crank from the black block clevos. The 4MA was made from 1968-1970 and fitted until 72. The 4MAB was fitted to 71-78 351 clevos. The 351 ARDIAE cranks were 79-85 in Aus. 4MAB is not balanced or Brinnel tested it’s just a revision. Ford spent millions on R and D over the years many argue the 4MA is the best but generally from an engineering standpoint things didn’t go backwards.

The X and Y were to prevent cracking in the lifter galley and provide extra strength. He is running a 4mab crank, not 4MA. The difference between 2v and 4v is purely port volume. The 3v is a revised higher intake height and exhaust runner with a more gradual curve that allows for better breathing. If you were to put 2v and 4v gaskets beside each other the intake bolt centreline is the same. Have a look 3v is a lot higher port.

hahahaha. that "Toasty!" instert had me loln

The 351C showed up here in the states in bits and pieces in the 1969 model year (there are a few '69 mustangs floating around with C's installed), and then came on full steam in 1970. It was introduced in passenger cars at first, followed by a 400 (taller deck) in 1971, which showed up in full-size cars. The 351C disappeared after the 1974 model year, with the 351M going until the early 1980's, and the 400 showing up for the final time in 1978. I seem to recall that the 351M/400 engine didn't begin showing up in trucks until 1977 (?), as the 360/390FE was the regular truck engine up until 1976/1977. The 351C's last year in the Mustang was 1973, and it was 302's all the way until the 1995 model year, with the 351W showing up in several years of Saleen Mustang, and the 1995 Mustang Cobra R. The 351W was in cars from 1969, up until 1991, and trucks from somewhere around 1970-1971 (don't quote me on this) until 1996 in the F150, 1997 for USA-spec trucks (F250/F350) and 1998 in Canada (F250/F350).

Hahaha @ 8 Ball Factory! When I heard that, I just knew you’d realise moments after how it sounded 😅

This is my favourite channel on KZfaq.

More john please fellas. thank you

How was the timing done? Was there marks from the previous setup or did you have to dial the cam etc. cheers. (More details on the crank angle sensor and coil packs would be cool).

Canted valves also open away from the cylinder wall to reduce shrouding and increase flow.

Rolling in the 5.0 with the rag top down so my hair cab blow

Wasn't the Windsor a narrower V than the Clevo? Good to see John wearing the standard Queensland Safety Boots. 😁😁

I need a set of those heads! I've got an engine waiting for them. They're hard to get here in the states.

That Ute is amazing. It's like a pick up Torino. I love it and wish we had them here in the states. The CHI heads are monsters for flow out of the box but a bit of porting and some intake work and they are unbeatable. I will some day do a Clevor build with a canted valve head but dang they ain't cheap. I look forward to the dyno and track testing. Keep up the good work gentlemen.

Looks like a dream place to chill out and do some work on your car!

That oil pickup in the middle got me thinking. Is it getting starved for oil when John launches, with oil sloshing to the rear of the sump, away from the pickup for a while?

I think in the U.S. the 4.9 was attached to the inline 300 six cylinder and 5.0 was the 302 Windsor V8. We also had 3 different 351 cubic inch blocks, the 3rd one was the 351M derived from the 400 block and Windsor crank.

Just wondering if the changing of the oil prioritisation to the crank journal might have changed what shows on oil pressure gauge? If all the crank bearings are wearing evenly, probably a sign that pressure is good just need to recalibrate a new normal pressure mark on oil gauge.....

John's shed is one of the tidiest seen; just look at the ladders and leads all lined up on the wall.

late comment but still... story time, my father bought a 1971 south african assembled xy falcon in mustard yellow, no motor, no trans, seats chewed by rats but no rust. he swapped a mint xf falcon sedan which was probably worth $3000 or so at the time (year 2000). fast forward 22 years its worth roughly $100,000 as it is.it has been our family car forever and we will never let her go. 351c and fmx gb and 9" diff ready to go in once we are ready to upgradr.. currently running rebuilt 302c, rebuilt c4 and standard v8 diff with 10xxxkms since rebuuild on running gear roughly 8 years old. shes mint one for sure 🤙

Would of loved to hear Johns knowledge on stock clevo blocks, and the power he thinks they can handle first hand. great episode but thankyou once again!!

Digging the new intro ! 👍

This is good timing I’m looking at building a clevo for my au

Woody has a couple of 260's.. oooh excited 👍

the size of those pistons - BOSS!

I hate to be a negative Nelly but I was listening to John's breathing and judging buy his fairly heavy breathing doing a light task I'd highly recommend he go see his doctor and get a chest ultrasound to check his heart I was breathing the same way and purely buy chance was in hospital for a unrelated issue when the doctor noticed and did a bedside ultrasound and noticed a problem with my heart and got me checked out apparently I was weeks away from a massive heart attack so if All or woody read this can you mention it to John please

I've got shed envy John

Doing a old 440 mopar build soon and a 431 stroker 340 small block with W2 heads after that

4M crank: standard 351C 4MA: high noduarity iron 4MA-B: Brinell tested for hardness (ie: a QC-selected 4MA)

love the new intro

14.7PSi of boost should double the atmo power , works pretty much everytime. Theres a nice XR going around melbourne with 742 HP 15psi clevo on 98 fuel has been driven weekly for 2 years and still going strong , has been super reliable ( who would have thought from a 7200rpm clevo)!

Love the v8s ,more please

Woah woah woah, new intro 😩🔥

The new beefed up skid factory intro is fucken awesome🤝

I feel like John is the third member of The Skid Factory.

Way back when I was told that the 4MA was basically a stock crank , but the journals were hardened , which ment that once they get reground you'd just have a stock crank again....

Epic!

Maaaan, once I realised I could here John's breathing thats all I could here hahaha. Good info here bois

Some top quality audio of mouth breathing going on here, didn't realise this was an ASMR channel

That MK reference gets me every time 🤣

Mortal Kombat Developer yelling Toasty @1:33 LOL

Like the new intro !!!

Loving these videos guys! Hey random question for Woody - Would a Haltech elite 550 be fine for a NA 4AGE with quad throttles?

John is literally just a more stoic and way less cooked version of Mike Nolan and i fkn love it 🤣🤣 aussie icon

So when John switches over to FI do you replace the vms with a Hal tech elite or do you add the elite to the vms?

Copper head gaskets n guide plates. Soooo old school.

Love my cleveland people don't expect to see it in the cobra but it pulls it up the road just fine.

Dream car right there

Would love an Allied performance projects hoody!!

Also on heads: the 2v was a lower compression "open chamber" design where the higher compression 4v was called a "quench head". Back when I was your age, I built a flat top piston, big cam, quench head motor for my '66 Mustang and never had a complaint about low end torque. My only complaint is how it twisted the body when I really got on it. Also, Ford made a few steel cranks for racers but the commoner was lucky to get their greedy hands on one. Word on the street was the iron cranks were unbreakable and I found that to be true on my junk.

Windsor 302 is a 4.9. The trans am displacement limit was 5 litre which maybe why it was marketed that way.

Does John anneal the copper gasket before fitting it up??

Looking forward to hearing this thing scream on the Hoffs dyno. Did anyone else notice that there was no mention of Lemon Squash in this episode?

He was looking for the term "nodular" iron as far as crank goes. Indeed Ford saw to it that it was not basic iron. They did the same with some of the 9 inch cases.

Heavy Breathing🤤 Camera dude overcome by Clevo goodness

I’m building a 408 now. I’m head shopping, both my 1970 4v closed chamber heads are cracked.

I'm not sure if I'm at the right place but I heard on the streets this is known as "the 8ball factory"

No, but they made the BOSS 302 in the USA, which I believe you will find was Windsor Block, Cleavland Heads and besides the 302 and 351, Ford also made a 400 Cleavland, so actually there were 4 Engines for the era.

Guys measure the bore distortion when you torque the head down you will be shocked especially on an overbore block. You need to concrete fill the block to gain minimum of 50 ft llbs of torque.

MAN alive !!!! I was going to order a hoodie ! 60$ ok but whats the cost to ship it to VIC BC Canada ?