Regarding Evil, Is God Sovereign or Trying His Best?

  Рет қаралды 11,205

Dividing Line Highlights

Dividing Line Highlights

4 жыл бұрын

Because of cultural challenges we respond on how Christians ought to answer regarding theodicy, God and the existence of evil.
All Dividing Line Highlights' video productions and credit belong to Alpha and Omega Ministries®. If this video interested you, please visit aomin.org/ or www.sermonaudio.com/go/336785
For James White's political content, click here:
www.bitchute.com/channel/0u0P...
#epicurus #problemofevil #truth

Пікірлер: 217
@MrGummbum
@MrGummbum 4 жыл бұрын
Our God is awesome. I do pause to thank Him. But never often enough. I shall thank Him yet more. :) Bless you all at AOMin.
@sheilashaver
@sheilashaver 4 жыл бұрын
God never tries anything. You and I try stuff, but God succeeds at all He does.
@apilkey
@apilkey 4 жыл бұрын
What was God trying to produce in ISAIAH 5:1-7? He was trying to bring forth grapes but it brought forth WILD grapes DESPITE all that He did. Yes or no was God successful in bringing forth grapes? 1 Now will I sing to my wellbeloved a song of my beloved touching his vineyard. My wellbeloved hath a vineyard in a very fruitful hill: 2 And he fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine, and built a tower in the midst of it, and also made a winepress therein: and he looked that it should bring forth grapes, AND IT BROUGHT FORTH WILD GRAPES. 3 And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem, and men of Judah, judge, I pray you, betwixt me and my vineyard. 4 WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN DONE MORE TO MY VINEYARD, THAT I HAVE NOT DONE IN IT? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes? 5 And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down: 6 And I will lay it waste: it shall not be pruned, nor digged; but there shall come up briers and thorns: I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it. 7 For the vineyard of the Lord of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry. He fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine, and built a tower in the midst of it, and also made a winepress therein: and he looked that it should bring forth grapes, AND IT BROUGHT FORTH WILD GRAPES.
@sheilashaver
@sheilashaver 4 жыл бұрын
@@apilkey Back up to Isaiah 1:9...God always has His remnant. He always has His survivors that He spares. Those are His Bride.
@apilkey
@apilkey 4 жыл бұрын
sheila shaver any particular reason why you ignored my comment? Was it because you realized your original post was proven wrong by the word of God so you’re trying to deflect? God left a PHYSICAL remnant. Remnant in the Bible refers to a PHYSICAL seed that God in His mercy chose not to destroy. Isaiah 1:9 is talking about PHYSICAL destruction like Sodom and Gomorrah. Has absolutely nothing to do with being chosen for salvation. And the reasons they weren’t destroyed are because they worshipped God and did not bow their knee to Baal as in 1 Kings 19:18 and Romans 11:3-5.
@sheilashaver
@sheilashaver 3 жыл бұрын
@@apilkey I thought I did. Before I do I need clarification from you...why would a Sovereign God rise up early to plead with that people? And what would that pleading look like?
@apilkey
@apilkey 3 жыл бұрын
sheila shaver I don’t put limits and restrictions on God in what His pleading must look like as if He needs to adhere to what I tell Him He’s allowed to do. He can use any means He wants to plead with people, but I’m sure we can both agree that in the Old Testament He primarily used prophets to plead with His people.
@Steblu74
@Steblu74 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks again James for giving relief to calamity that Arminianism simply cannot give-
@sparker8875
@sparker8875 4 жыл бұрын
Praise God, thankful for your faithful exegesis..been hearing waay too much "binding" of Covid19 🙄
@ethanhocking8229
@ethanhocking8229 4 жыл бұрын
S Parker Sounds like Word of Faith nonsense.
@sparker8875
@sparker8875 4 жыл бұрын
@@ethanhocking8229 yes, for sure though was hearing in a mainline denomination that supposedly denouced word of faith.. which is disturbing.
@GodOfThe
@GodOfThe 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this
@philblagden
@philblagden 4 жыл бұрын
Any non reformed view of sovereignty assumes that God's purposes are constantly frustrated. This is contrary to Psalm 33 which states that God frustrates the plans of the peoples and of nations so that His purpose will be established. He did not create evil but He chooses when to allow it and when to prevent it and He does all this in accordance with His plans and without tempting anyone. He is working ALL things after the counsel of His will according to Ephesians. Our God is ruling triumphantly, not a frustrated spectator.
@jamiejame911
@jamiejame911 4 жыл бұрын
Sadly, for you, in James' view of "sovereignty" God doesn't merely ALLOW evil. He is the prime mover and ultimate originator of EVERY evil. Go listen to him in this very video.
@billyr9162
@billyr9162 4 жыл бұрын
@@jamiejame911 He said the opposit of what you said in the very 1st sentence of the video.
@electronicMI
@electronicMI 4 жыл бұрын
@@billyr9162 : Comic Junglist all but admitted that he did not watch the video, as you know. He somehow divines the content of a video by its title and is thereby able to rebut the fallacies therein-or something like that. Nice catch.
@billyr9162
@billyr9162 4 жыл бұрын
@@electronicMI Yah.
@philblagden
@philblagden 4 жыл бұрын
@@jamiejame911 I think he means that God is never surprised by evil, and His purposes are not thwarted by it. He chooses even to use the evil deeds of men and fallen angels to carry out His will. If He allows an evil act to take place, He has a plan in doing so, and if He had desired He could have prevented it from happening. Consider Satan. He was made perfect with no inclination to sin, and he had no one to tempt him. Yet he became proud and sinned. Unless you want to deny that God is all knowing, you have to concede that God knew this could and would happen. After Satan sinned, God could immediately have crushed his rebellion and consigned him to hell just as He will do at the end of the millenium. But He waited. He allowed the rebellion to continue, and He has purpose in doing that. It's the same with the fall of man. He made Adam and Eve upright, but He also put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden, and He did not prevent the serpent (Satan) from tempting Eve. He knew with certainty that they would fall, as Jesus is referred to as the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world. God's sovereignty does not nullify our responsibility. It does not mean He is not grieved and angry with sin. God is fully in control though and He is working ALL things (including evil) after the consel of His will.
@phillipGriffiths-vr7hz
@phillipGriffiths-vr7hz 8 ай бұрын
Excellent, unlike the man centred approach that is put forward by Leighton Flowers.
@Chuck_McDon
@Chuck_McDon 2 жыл бұрын
Isaiah 45 4For the sake of my servant Jacob, and Israel my chosen, I call you by your name, I name you, though you do not know me. 5I am the LORD, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I equip you, though you do not know me, 6that people may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the LORD, and there is no other. 7I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the LORD, who does all these things.
@Alex-zq9ru
@Alex-zq9ru 3 жыл бұрын
Can anyone tell me what program he’s using?
@TheKatknip
@TheKatknip 3 жыл бұрын
Me too! I must know, I’ll tell you if I find out
@douglasmcnay644
@douglasmcnay644 3 жыл бұрын
@@TheKatknip From other videos, I believe he has called it Accordance.
@jlanley2
@jlanley2 9 ай бұрын
2:00 in the video. My question is since God is omniscient and sees sentient beings actions before they actually occur in time and space, should we therefore conclude that then God is the cause of those actions? Or, is the freedom of volition kept in tact while being seen by the Creator?
@booyaka870
@booyaka870 3 ай бұрын
I believe in essence this is the question White says Edwards & Calvin couldn't answer. Basically we don't know. But what do you do with the "gap"? Do you conclude that God is evil if he made evil or do you conclude that God is good which the scripture(s) say? Problem is if you conclude that God is evil for making evil you are making an assumption, a religion of your own, if you will, instead of trusting what the scriptures say about God: that he's good.
@winburna852
@winburna852 22 сағат бұрын
Proverbs 16:4 "The Lord has made everything for its own purpose, even the wicked for the day of evil."
@francsiscog
@francsiscog 4 жыл бұрын
I think the harder question is how did the devil fall? We know that Adam fell by following his wife who had fallen for the devils lie. But the devil didn't have another evil person to temp him.
@gabrielkinzel3389
@gabrielkinzel3389 3 жыл бұрын
But all according to God’s sovereignty, that He might glorify Himself
@gabrielkinzel3389
@gabrielkinzel3389 3 жыл бұрын
@@azhasanain fair enough
@gabrielkinzel3389
@gabrielkinzel3389 3 жыл бұрын
@@azhasanain Fair enough. We get our glorification because we are in Christ--imputation--not because of our deeds. But besides that, I agree with what you're saying.
@bisdakpinoy3428
@bisdakpinoy3428 2 жыл бұрын
When Satan is bound for a thousand years, man still have the ability to sin even without the tempter Satan.
@friendlyfire7509
@friendlyfire7509 11 ай бұрын
@bisdakpinoy3428 you should do a Bible study video on that. Very interesting
@jessegandy7361
@jessegandy7361 4 жыл бұрын
I read once, in relation to theodicy, that God is the final cause of all moral evil and we are the efficient cause of all moral evil.
@friendlyfire7509
@friendlyfire7509 11 ай бұрын
Oh plz do tell
@ThomasCranmer1959
@ThomasCranmer1959 10 ай бұрын
How does God have exhaustive foreknowledge of the future? By looking into the future to learn what will happen? OR did God foreordain it all? Ephesians 1:4-5, 11.
@thirdplace3973
@thirdplace3973 2 ай бұрын
He is sovereign, which means the highest authority and right to rule as He pleases. Sovereign doesn’t mean exhaustive determinism, that’s not the definition in any dictionary ever written on Earth.
@jerrypeters3794
@jerrypeters3794 4 жыл бұрын
When He gave Jesus to die on the cross He did His best, don't you think. It will all work out in the end but we're not there yet, faith you know.
@apilkey
@apilkey 4 жыл бұрын
Apparently He didn’t do His best because I’m the reformed view He STILL has to effectually cause people to believe. As if sending His Son wasn’t good enough to convince fallen man. 1) He sent His Son. 2) He sent His Holy Spirit. 3) He gave us His Word. 4) He speaks to us through creation. What more do you want? Is everything that God has done in taking the Divine Initiative and first step towards mankind not good enough? Was it somehow insufficient and lacking that God is still forced to effectually cause people to believe or else no one ever would? What suggestions do you have for God in how He could’ve done a better job?
@dver89
@dver89 2 ай бұрын
Reformed brothers, for my own knowledge, what is wrong with simply saying that God has given man free will and that man is tempted by sin and therefore man commits sin? And that is the explanation for evil? "Sovereign or trying his best" seems like a false dichotomy to me because the obvious other option is that God gave humans libertarian freedom to choose between good and evil.
@oracleoftroy
@oracleoftroy 12 күн бұрын
As for your question, I don't know. That's what the Reformed confessions say, but anti-calvinists won't accept that and keep making up acronyms around "determinism" (by which they mean fatalism) and falsely imputing them to us. But if you demand a libertarian philosophy of freedom orer other possible theories, you run into a multitude of both philosophical and scriptural problems. For one, you now have trouble reconciling that God is creator and sustained of all, which also entails he is the one who designed and implemented human free will. I.e. our free will isn't autonomous and apart from God.
@unknownmindyourown1917
@unknownmindyourown1917 2 ай бұрын
The title is A misnomer , The point is that God is not trying to save people but Ends up unsuccessful at doing so, or being able to do so. There is nobody in the Christian church that believes that
@civilwar41
@civilwar41 Жыл бұрын
The video suddenly skips before he mentions the word “MILLION” light years
@ThomasCranmer1959
@ThomasCranmer1959 10 ай бұрын
Calvin says that God is the remote author of evil. God is the remote or primary cause of moral evil. Man is the secondary cause or author of his own sins.
@ThomasCranmer1959
@ThomasCranmer1959 10 ай бұрын
It's all a mystery? Brother Jimmy is agnostic on the problem of evil? Isaiah 45:7 (KJV 1900): I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things. Amos 3:6 (KJV 1900): Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? Shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it? 3. God may thus quell his enemies by silence. But lest we should allow them with impunity to hold his sacred name in derision, he supplies us with weapons against them from his word. Accordingly, when we are accosted in such terms as these, Why did God from the first predestine some to death, when, as they were not yet in existence, they could not have merited sentence of death? let us by way of reply ask in our turn, What do you imagine that God owes to man, if he is pleased to estimate him by his own nature? As we are all vitiated by sin, we cannot but be hateful to God, and that not from tyrannical cruelty, but the strictest justice. But if all whom the Lord predestines to death are naturally liable to sentence of death, of what injustice, pray, do they complain? Should all the sons of Adam come to dispute and contend with their Creator, because by his eternal providence they were before their birth doomed to perpetual destruction, when God comes to reckon with them, what will they be able to mutter against this defense? If all are taken from a corrupt mass, it is not strange that all are subject to condemnation. Let them not, therefore, charge God with injustice, if by his eternal judgment they are doomed to a death to which they themselves feel that whether they will or not they are drawn spontaneously by their own nature. Hence it appears how perverse is this affectation of murmuring, when of set purpose they suppress the cause of condemnation which they are compelled to recognize in themselves, that they may lay the blame upon God. But though I should confess a hundred times that God is the author (and it is most certain that he is), they do not, however, thereby efface their own guilt, which, engraven on their own consciences, is ever and anon presenting itself to their view. Institutes Book 3. Ch. 23. section 3.
@ceruleanc505
@ceruleanc505 4 жыл бұрын
Stars may be hydrogen or may not be. One thing they definitely are, are avatars of Angels.
@WasLostButNowAmFound
@WasLostButNowAmFound 4 жыл бұрын
No.
@ceruleanc505
@ceruleanc505 4 жыл бұрын
@@WasLostButNowAmFound I didn't know that you create things in the Universe. Do you read your Bible?
@WasLostButNowAmFound
@WasLostButNowAmFound 4 жыл бұрын
@@ceruleanc505 i think you watched to many reruns of avatar.
@ceruleanc505
@ceruleanc505 4 жыл бұрын
@@WasLostButNowAmFound Try reading The Bible. Have you read it?
@WasLostButNowAmFound
@WasLostButNowAmFound 4 жыл бұрын
@@ceruleanc505 i think you're an avatar of a potato. no. you definitely are a potato.
@patrickkircher145
@patrickkircher145 Ай бұрын
You forgot to add that those destroyed by God will also be numbered as the sand of the sea.
@friendlyfire7509
@friendlyfire7509 11 ай бұрын
Wierd editing around 13:30
@jamiejame911
@jamiejame911 4 жыл бұрын
Regarding this video's title you have both a false dichotomy and the first statement exhibits the fallacy of begging the question (assuming what needs to be proven: James' view of sovereignty). These are basic blunders.
@chloeanddad8514
@chloeanddad8514 4 жыл бұрын
Could you please help me understand your perspective correctly. It seems you are saying that the title of the video is somehow his argument and therefore the title is begging the question? Isn’t it the actual content of the video that we should focus on - not the title? I’m guess I’m confused by your premise and need help to understand your perspective.
@ceruleanc505
@ceruleanc505 4 жыл бұрын
Exactly. He lost me at "Calvin". Traditions of men. GOD YHWH help us all to purge theses men out of our Souls forever, AMEN.
@jamiejame911
@jamiejame911 4 жыл бұрын
Well if you listened to James White you'd know the title of the video encapsulates his views very aptly and my rebuttal to the fallacies therein are relevant to what he ends up saying anytime he talks about this subject.
@ceruleanc505
@ceruleanc505 4 жыл бұрын
@@jamiejame911 I did listen, and he lauded Calvin. "Come OUT OF HER AND BE YE SEPARATE."
@billyr9162
@billyr9162 4 жыл бұрын
The title is not an argument. It's a title.
@pertinentpoint767
@pertinentpoint767 Жыл бұрын
God is the source of all evil. He Himself is not evil. All things in creation are good for Him,not for us. Judas Iscariot . Good were it for that man if he had never been born. God transcends good and evil. Amos 3:6
@friendlyfire7509
@friendlyfire7509 11 ай бұрын
Thank you for your insight.
@davidhodges6201
@davidhodges6201 Жыл бұрын
James I see you have gone for the morass like Edwards. God,s command was that Adam should not eat of the tree, and yet you say that some other non biblical primary cause or secret sovereign decree meant that he must. What a silly contradiction, and you justify your authority in this by piggy backing on God's ways being higher than ours. Why is it that Calvin's, Armenians and Molinists for that matter insist on putting God back into created time. If God is creator he cannot be subject to it except in the incarnation. God's foreknowledge of all things is a function of him being creator and outside of time. This aspect then breaks the normal time bound logic which is what leaves you in the morass. Indeed God's ways are higher than ours and one aspect of this is that he is outside of time which then affects time bound logic. Outside of time you can know all the future without necessarily ordaining everything before hand, looking down the corridor of time. The origin of evil is the flip side of the coin of freewill responsibility. A necessary risk to create a people who can meaningfully praise God's glory. A risk commanded against and subsequently fully mitigated in the incarnation. Romans 3 is clear God could not punish the sins committed before had until God had demonstrated his justice in giving original sinners a chance . And let's be clear God does not predestined everything. Those being saved are predestined to become like Christ, yes read it carefully. As regards national election the Jews are always loved, And to those people who were not formally elected, the gentiles they can be grafted in. And by the way Romans ch 9, not all who are decended from Israel are Israel. This remains the terms of a non salvic national election. It was to the children promised, and before they had done anything, including have faith. You do not need to import and conflate this with Romans 4 for the logic to work here. National Jacob was chosen and national esau wasn't, so what. Neither of these elections affects the gospel which is exactly the point of Rom 9-11.The difficulty for all you conflationists is you can't see that God might work in more than one way at the same time. This is of course especially relevant to Jews being saved who are therefore subject to 2 complimentary elections at the same time.
@davidhodges6201
@davidhodges6201 Жыл бұрын
And by the way Gods freedom, is not free from his will, so his freedom to act is different from our freewill.
@davidhodges6201
@davidhodges6201 Жыл бұрын
Ask yourself how can a non elect people become an elect people Romans ch 9 v25 and what does this say for predestination, can it change?
@emilesturt3377
@emilesturt3377 Ай бұрын
Welcome to the world of Calvinism. The following words found throughout holy Scripture will now be highly logically problematic - both to the natural reasonable man, and the spiritually illumined one: "If" "Reward" "Choose" "Punishment" (now practically meaningless and totally incoherent in light of the Reformed theory of compatibalism and irresistible / effectual grace) The following words will now also have to be somewhat "tweaked" (utterly changed from what they clearly and simply mean)... "Love" "Desires" "World" "Sovereign" "Whoever" "All" Finally you need to get used to cherry picking a couple of verses outside of the context of the entire swathe of the Book, Epistle or Gospel where they are found, and conflate and confuse individual justification / incorporation into Christ with corporate ministry and election. Oh! And please DO NOT research about how Augustine of Hippo practically reinvented the meaning of the word "Predestination" or the view of the human will and its relation to the Divine one as it was classically understood in the early Christian Church, and how one of his greatest fans - John Calvin - picked up this novel (non Christian) doctrine (double predestination) in the 16th century and stuck it on steroids: John Calvin calling it "the terrible doctrine" - which it is of course - but not for the same reasons he was applying the term... Now that you're a Calvinist you will be keenly aware that this doctrinal system (see the doctrines of grace) seems to tarnish the character of God and human moral responsibility and accountability (even though it sincerely and rightly seeks to stress the primacy of grace)... but remember! You are honoring God and His Scripture by swallowing this hard to swallow view of Sovereignty (meticulous determinism), Election and Reprobation (unconditional election), and man only having the illusion of free will (total depravity / inability)... The thing is though (between you and me and the entire Christian East and much of the West who do not hold to Augustinian Calvinism, and who all but you minority of Reformed folk, reject double predestination) you're not actually honouring God or his word in conforming to this system, you're actually simply honouring the thoughts of these men and their interpretive tradition) 😬✌️💚😂
@donhaddix3770
@donhaddix3770 5 ай бұрын
God sets parameters. to seek God and grow requires being able to reject him. not Calvinism, no freedom.
@jonnyw82
@jonnyw82 9 ай бұрын
James is the straw man king. Arminianism doesn’t contend that God is “trying His best” we say that evil occurs in a fallen world and yet God can bring good out of our suffering as Paul said He works all things for good for those who love Him.
@TheSpanishHerald
@TheSpanishHerald Ай бұрын
False dichotomy Mr White. Stop misleading your audience. Calvinism is not the Gospel.
@donhaddix3770
@donhaddix3770 6 ай бұрын
Calvinism and Arminianism are both false. seek in freewill, saved by predestination.
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