I hear you, I hear you! I will still call them Meeples! I mainly just wanted to share the funny alternative names people suggested and troll HiG a little bit by calling them Meatballs. But no, they will always and forever be Meeples! There will be NO MEEPLE LEFT BEHIND ✊✊✊ #freethemeeple Watch my first video about Meeplegate here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/n-B0mtyVl9qonY0.htmlsi=g_hY4tDE2CMkTfj6 and become a Member to playtest with me on Sundays and other awesome perks (like a monthly members only party!): kzfaq.info/love/t4TYeU8YMwtBa6sX8ejIcwjoin

If we stop using the term meeple then their position to copyright it will actually be strengthened. Thus I refuse to stop using the term.

Not calling them meeples is accepting the logic of the abusive party.

We absolutely need to still call them meeples. To change what we call them proves than Hans im Gluck does indeed have the right to trademark. Audaciously use Meeple. Use it in the title of games, use it in your rulebooks, stand for what is right. Tell them to pound sand when they send their letter. Band together. We can defeat their trademark if only we challenge their supposed authority. Never bow.

Has anyone just tried notifying the German trademark office that they granted a willfully fraudulent trademark?

Perhaps the town of Carcassonne should copyright its own name? Now that would be fun, wouldn’t it!

I accidentally knocked over the pickles on the counter and I SPEEEHLED DAAH JARRH oh no help me

I refuse to let them have the word. It's still a fantastic word, gifted to the community and used for the common good for decades before and there's no good reason to stop now. They can't sue us all.

rather than come up with a new name, we need to keep using the correct name and start a fund or something for legal fees to fight the trademark. it should be easy considering they have admitted that they didnt create it and that is a commonly used word. we need to not bow down to companies doing stupid things. I am very sad AEG is deciding to go this rout.

I say call them Meeples anywhere except German, where they're renamed to Gluckholes

I'll be boycott'ing Hans im Gluck ... not so much to be part of a campaign to pressure them. I'm just not giving money to idiots.

Insane that a person/corporation can trademark something they didn't even invent.

IMO: Stick with Meeple. Don't give into the trademark trolls. Reject their ludicrous claim and keep the household word. If anything, we really need a German game designer with sufficient funds to intentionally use the name in order to draw them into a losing trademark suit. **Edit:** Or, from the sounds of it, just a person or company in Germany who is motivated enough to submit a challenge against their trademark. Shoutout to any wealthy German gamers out there looking for an opportunity to enact some petty legal justice.

Wonderful follow up! In the US, from talking with someone who worked in the trademark office, my understanding was the purpose was to protect companies in a situation where a consumer would mistake another product from being yours. The test at least at the time involved actually seeing if consumers were confused. "Coce Cola" in similar font is a clear example. When has anyone seen anything with the Meeple word and think, oh this must be an official product by some German company I've never heard of?

"Gratefully adopted" is a weird way of saying "stole"... 🤔

This was a much more thorough followup than I expected. I appreciate how you've included commenters and experts into the subject. The idea of dealing with the German legal system is a scary deterrant for sure so I completely get the apprehensiveness from publishers and devs.

Consider this your daily reminder that IP law exists entirely to enforce corporate monopolies, not to protect creativity, and you have a moral responsibility to ignore it.

Minor point about the "Spots the Space Marine" debacle: Games Workshop does in fact own the trademark "Space Marine" but only under the toys and games category, they can do nothing about it in literature, as it was a previously used term, ironically in the very publications they used for inspiration for their world building. GW had to buy out the term from another boardgame producer who had a game titled "Princess Ryan's Space Marines". As he had developed that title before GW had Space Marines on the market. Now that game is re-titled "Princess Ryan's Star Marines" and the author got some cash for the use. So sometimes the use of a trademark is limited to the classification of goods that it ks related to. Which is why GW had to back down from "Spots the Space Marine".

The heck? People think “watch till the end” is “manipulation”?? Do they get mad every time someone says “Like and subscribe”? That’s just part of the KZfaq game!

"Terror in Meeple City" was originally "Rampage" until they got a C&D from the owners of the videogame. Even bigger companies make mistakes regarding copyright, and i dont think its fair to fully put the onus on every small boargame dev to scour the internet for these things. Also, they shouldn't have been given the rights by their own admission on the website.

Spend hours researching and producing a video; rewarded with comments loaded with pedantry. The internet in a nutshell. Great videos (both). Something must have gone right with the algorithm to have your first video pop up in my suggestions. Really enjoy them and your style. Wasn't familiar with your work prior to this but going to follow for sure. Thanks! And yes, been playing the game for 20+ years and it is and always has been "Carca-zone" for me as well. Deal with it. I'm not French. 😂

Meeple meeple meeple

As an Aussie, I’m still mad about UGGS the same thing happened to a small business here (that had been making Ugg boots before the rest of the world knew they were called that!)

I think it's important to keep calling them meeples. As the lawyer that contacted you said, the trademark can still be challenged. The more the word meeple stays in common use, the less valid the trademark will be. Meeple! Meeple, meeple, meeple! Edit: Looks like everyone beat me to the punch on this one. Good to see lots of people agree. :-3

.. What about all the KZfaq channels, The PodCast, Streamers... and so on that have a "brand" around with this word ? And since they are online, cannot control the direct distribution? Just let them get copywritted striked ? This makes no sense.. HiG should go down for this ... and HARD

As someone who has played Carcassonne since the first year the game came out, I am pre-meeple, and neither I nor the friends I played with ever used that word to describe the little wooden pieces in the game. We used the French word 'bonhomme' which can be loosely translated as either old man, fellow, or good man. We'd also use 'petit bonhomme' as the pieces are smaller versions of a human and that term is used for small or young male kids.

Remember when King trademarked Candy in reference to software it blew back so hard they got bought for peanuts

It tastes (good) almost like malicious compliance to specifically only give HiG honorable mentions in the German versions of the games. "We're only 'thankful' because you're holding a gun to our heads, so we're not in regions where you're unarmed."

I'll be calling them meeples. Absolute majority of people do not care about this "issue".

As a game designer and publisher i find this situation despicable. Such a horrible predatory attitude, the game community deserves better. Also, i admire your commitment to correct pronunciation, I'm franco-argentinian and i give you permission to mispronounce any word in french or spanish, including but not limited to Carcassone, tango and ooh lala.

To further elaborate on the GW situation, this is often seen as the reason for them changing the names of a lot of their factions so they can trademark them. Sometimes, these were words they already had in their lore that just got moved from being buried in lore to being front and center, the names of the products. Space Marines became the Adeptus Astartes Imperial Guard became the Astra Militarum Eldar (a name already stolen from Tolkien as I recall) became the Aeldari Etc. Again, a lot of these already had them buried in the lore as their official names. But because they cannot trademark something like "Imperial Guard" because of how generic it is, they had to find another route after the losses they suffered over the Space Marines bit.

Don't worry about people whining that you quoted Wikipedia.

"Meatballs" is good! Or maybe Meepballs would be close enough but also different enough. 🙂 Another great video Pam! You are on a roll! Tasty surprise at the end ... I hope everyone watches that far! 😉

What we should do is retroactively impose a overly pedantic stipulation for why the hanz and glook people aren't even true meeples...

Haha… I actually also really hate that “wait until the end to see” but I didn’t think I’d make a big deal about it. 😂

Love the twist at the end: nothing! Great pair of videos, very thoughtful and well presented. Good luck with your game designs!

Another thoroughly researched, clearly explained, and well-produced video. I am enjoying this series, and I hope your new subscribers check out your design videos as well, they are equally illuminating!

A GREAT example of keeping a trademark active would be what Disney has done with Steamboat Willy. With the looming release of the character into the public domain, Disney chose to incorporate Willy into the Disney logo clip for all their new movies. This effectively keeps the character's trademark active. I don't know if they'll do this with all their characters or if they're just looking to largely protect "Micky" and his historical variants, but it could be that we'll start seeing a range of new intros featuring expiring Disney characters as more and more content starts being added to the public domain.

I had a similar situation with a book title that was stolen the year after I copyrighted it. Amazon would not let my book be sold on their sight because I was the "little guy" and Harper Collins was the one pushing the book with the stolen title. Amazon never helped me out, they just rolled me over and left me for dead.

I wasn't planning on using the term "meeple" in my game, or potentially the pieces at all, but it's a good thing to keep in mind for my current and future projects.

I love and appreciate how incredibly thorough you have been in both videos, and even correcting previous misinformation. This has been such an educational experience, and I appreciate you taking the time to explain this entire situation with such care and diligence.

Absolutely do not stop calling them meeples! It only enforces their claim and definitely not lower it. Rather, crowdfund the legal costs to battle their trademark!

Wow, the feedback. Not on the meatballs drama, but on the video script. Good job on acknowledging and adapting👌you are doing great

I will use Meeple in my language and in my game designs. You made a great point, legally removing the trademark is the ideal solution, however the only other alternative is to hit their wallets. Once a company gets so big, it's the only message they can hear.

No, no, they are ME-ples. No need to change the way we pronounce it ;) Also works for all those great channels that have that as a name. I would not like to see the word to become excluded for that very reason. The me-ple belongs to all of us.

Between all the hard work going into the details, collating your discoveries, and the entertaining presentation of the journey your channel and the two vids were an easy sub and like, but your knavish humor made that an enthusiastic and instantaneous reaction.

As an IP attorney, I appreciate that you are careful to distinguish trademarks, copyright, and patents in your discussion. Too many people mix up the concepts, and I appreciate you took time to discuss these different forms of IP as accurately as you could.

They don't have any right to trademark a word created and passed on by another person, who isn't even an employee of the company. We still call them meeples. idc. it's our word, and they don't get it.

Trying to come up with a new word for meeples is an extremely smooth-brained move. They're meeples and I'm not changing my language because of what some German trademark office says.

Step 1. Continue to use the word meeple. Step 2. Boycott them. Step 3. Broadcast and share what is happening and ask others to carry out Steps 1, 2 and 3. There is no middle ground here, but there is a lesson for those who think any company can lay claim to something they didnt originate.

Hehe, great to see Gil get a shout out in this. Been friends with him since we were kids, and used to help him run his booth at the UK Games Expo (I moved to the UK from NY in 2012) before he stepped back from games publishing.

If people stop using the term Meeple then the company wins

The original poster should be suing them for usage of her creation. It should be automatically copyrighted to her as she was the first to use it and there is a distinct timestamp. She would have a case, and she could probably make a good amount of money. She would also be the final say on who could use it, as it is her creation.

I will not pitch to blah company and i will encourage others to do the same. Me: With all due respect how is that not boycotting with an * "exception being i feel bad for people caught in the crossfire" Last video i asked what name should i use instead. This video after listening ive come to the conclusion i am going to continue using the word Meeple. Thanks for the follow up and reminding me its for Germany only.

I dunno if you’ve seen it but the copyright/trademark situation for the painkiller and dark n stormy cocktails are another similar situation

I am a proud Pam Walls Meatball (subscriber) lol! Also, I’ve been loving your channel for all the amazing design content but this two-part video shows that you also really have a knack for these kinds of board game industry news updates. Can’t wait for the next MeepleGate and hope you cover it.

Quite a good follow up video, and amusing. Actually if they spelled Carcassonne with a few 'zeds', they could probably trademark it. Just discovered your channel, once in awhile the algorithm gets it right. Great to see a BC game designer with a interesting and informative channel.

A possibly interesting fact: Tiny Epic Zombies from 2018 lists ITEMeeples (i.e. meeples that can carry items) as a trademark of Gamelyn Games.

Super stoked to have found you because of these videos! Your approach and thoroughness are awesome, and I can't wait to see how you cover other topics in the future!

I think it’s genuinely sick that they’re trying to claim a word that they didn’t come up with and is also common place terminology

I just found out my favorite game is by these corporate ghouls. I'm pretty devastated, honestly.

I always call them "My lil dudes" 😂

This whole thing makes me want to design a game called "Mepple's Hands in Gröins" just to spite Hans im Glück

I'm not so much in board games but your presentation of Meeplegate was really amazing and interesting!

Let’s just keep calling them meeples. Btw I discovered your channel through the algorithm and enjoyed both meeplegate vids.

Some of them yes. I'd look at at the crushing saga of candy. King went after people using any of the words "candy," "crush," or "saga" in their product names, including non-game companies and games that predated their app. Now... they're Microsoft.

What scumbags. I can't afford new games often but I'll find it harder to buy their games again

Wow, very insightful! Thank you for your research and the well-written video script! And this part 14:35 😂😂😂

Your videos are so informative and entertaining, and I'm impressed by how graciously you accept and learn from comments. Also, I love Blob Party, so I'm here for whatever you've got!

In all Twitch speech-to-text software, "meeple" is written out as "meatball".

Free the Meeple! Or just hyphenate it. Me-eple.

Some call them "worker". How could they...🤭

I've never seen a more satisfying update video.

I personally like "Sheeples" since the little guys were originally followers and followers are sometimes called 'sheep' you can call them sheep+people or sheeple.

What a great update and response. Love you commentary on the situation.

We have to stick with meeple. It’s abhorrent you can put the shape of a human being into a board game then claim that shape. Someone will counterclaim at some point and they will lose it.

My gaming group used to call them Meeples - but he have been calling them Dudes and Dudettes for many years.

Fascinating trivia for an otherwise enjoyable genre

I've heard in other contracts like publisher-designer contracts there are exit clauses about unethical behavior. I would be there isn't a clause like that the indie designers could use to exit business with H&G and seek another publisher, but maybe there is?

"I hope you are hungry... for nothing!" Thanks, that was funny!

Thanks for using my comment in the follow up, but I have to point out that Meeple Circus includes the following line on the bottom left of the last page of the german rulebook: "Für den Gastauftritt der Meeples ein herzliches Dankeschön an Hans im Glück." (Translation: For the guest appearance of the Meeples a hearty thanks to Hans im Glück) While the german rulebook for Meeple War says this on its last page: "Und einen „Wuff“ an Hans im Glück für die Verwendung des Meeples, der ursprünglich für Carcassonne hergestellt wurde, sowie für die fantastischen Spiele, die sie uns bringen." (Translation: And a Whoop to Hans im Glück for the use of the Meeple, which was orginally crafted for Carcassone, as well as the fantastic games they bring us.) This means there is a credit to HiG in 5 of the 7 games you mentioned. Meeples & Monsters, as we have established, does not need a credit because it does not have a german version. So we are left with Tiny Epic Kingdoms, where the german version is from 2014, well before HiG even applied for the trademark. Now the german publisher for the Tiny Epic series, Schwerkraft is very, very, very ... let's say IP aware, up to the point where they do NOT publish online versions of the german rulebooks. As I do not own any newer Schwerkraft games that include meeples and I can't check online I don't know, but I would be extremely surprised if they don't have permission by HiG, considering how IP aware Schwerkraft are.

Once again, you provide a fabulously informative video. Thank you!!

BUT I LIVE FOR FORESHADOWING! ~cries~ Also can we have some googly eyes on the doorknob please?

We definitely need to boycott that company to show them we don't appreciate their theft of commom gaming words.

Your videos are wonderfully refreshing, well crafted, interesting, articulate and entertaining. Regarding Hans in Gluk, they are dead to me. They are acting like a bully, shoving little kids in the industry around in order to scare the bigger publishers. Personally, I will never purchase a product of theirs in retail.

If Heinlein ever used the term "space marines" it was strictly as wallpaper, or window dressing. None of his main characters were ever space marines. They may well have been an alternative branch of this or that armed forces; I'm willing to believe that RAH used the term more than once, but not in a central role. I think maybe Uncle Steve, in Time For The Stars, had been a Space Marine.

I was just at a con that had a Meeple Wall selfie location and couldn't help but think of this trademark fiasco. Meeples have obviously, and quickly, become a common use word that should haven't any copyright or trademark associated with it.

Salt Lake Comic Con had to change its name to FanX because of San Diego! =(

Love the Nathan Fielder reference at the end ❤️

It's wild to me how many games actually include that thanks-note, and for how long already. Just looked through mine. wow. I'll definitely not be buying HiG any more though. To be fair, I have 1 game from them, they just don't publish my kind of games.

If someone sets up roadblocks, I recommend voting with our wallets and boycott at least their future games. The best I got as a replacement is mini-fellow or Mifel until they trademark that and its not as catchy of course but we will have to move on or pay up. Or call them Vasel if he is ok with it. That's our option as a community. Boardgame companies are just going to get into a lot of the similar trouble as they did, if they keep using it. If we keep using it, we support their word and give it more value.

Meatballs isn't trademarkable(?) since it's just a word lol We should go with that

On behalf of all German-speaking people on the internet I accept your apology.

The German word Hänseln is another word for Bullying. Kinda fitting here

This is some amazing research!

I just commentend on your other m-word-video... so, for the sake of the algorythm: love your hair!

Great followup video! Excellent finish!

There is no need to make up a new name for 'meeple'. They are still - and always be - called meeples. I don't understand your need to change it.

I do like how well researched and thought out these videos are.

Love the Foster the Meeple channel. Hope they get through this!