Restoring 'Piano Black' (Polyester Resin) Grand Piano Top - Sanding and Polishing

  Рет қаралды 15,056

Venables Pianos - Piano Centre (open by appointment)

Venables Pianos - Piano Centre (open by appointment)

2 жыл бұрын

Timelapse video showing a 5 hour sequence shortened to 5mins! Sanding and polishing a 6' (1.86m) grand piano top. The original 35 years old polyester resin was dull, scratched and revealed surface imperfections including expansion/contraction of the wood beneath (grain ripples).
Older resin gloss is particularly hard and 'cured' making the sanding and polishing process challenging compared to a newly-applied gloss. Long-cured polyester resin is especially stubborn, making it a very hard-wearing finish for premium musical instruments and furniture. The black pigment is within the gloss finish itself, rather than a colour mid coat with a clear top coat.
In original manufacture, the polyester resin finish is usually applied to ~3mm thick and sanded back to 0.8mm for final finish in manufacture. In the life of the instrument, polyester resin at almost 1mm thick allows for 2 or 3 refinishing stages restoring a perfect 'new' finish from the original manufactured finish.
Dry sanding stages are p320 to remove significant scratches, then p500, p800, p1500, coarse compound with twisted wool mop, medium cut compound with lambswool mop. The final stage finishing compound and polish with light foam sponge.

Пікірлер: 36
@MCHEATH
@MCHEATH 2 жыл бұрын
Great job!
@ChrisVenablesPianos
@ChrisVenablesPianos 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Steven!
@JacobEmch91
@JacobEmch91 2 жыл бұрын
Finally someone who knows what they’re doing. What is that, a Young Chang? I usually go up to 3000, if it needs to be “perfect“. But many times, the dealers just say “make it look the best you can in X amount of hours.” I got my first 6” Mirka sander three years ago. I used to do all that by hand. Sucked! Now I have the 3”, 1 1/4”, and 3x5” sanders. They cut my time down by so much especially on polyester repairs. I do a lot of standard refinishing, too, though. So well worth the investment. On repairs, I have found that switching between the random orbit and the standard orbit sanders really lets me see when I have cut through the previous grit sanding scratches. Keep up the great work!
@ChrisVenablesPianos
@ChrisVenablesPianos 2 жыл бұрын
Indeed! Whilst mopping with soaps is generally quicker, it doesn't remove the production linishing marks, surface imperfections from years of temperature and humidity fluctuations which cause the veneers and laminations to expand and contract and causing 'ripples' in the surface. However, the main reason I use dry sand, damp sand, compound, polish is due to the showroom environment being far tidier and healthier. The polisher lasts longer too! The time and cost spent sourcing the right sanding discs and compounds was significant, as it isn't a typical product to work with and there is a lack of knowledge and experience in refinishing polyester resin. Most disc wear quickly, retain particles and cause 'pigtailing'. I find Norton Gold Reserve, Mirka Polarstar and BAXT Carbonite the best for dry sanding (with extraction). Damp sanding with 3M Trizact 3000. Also the 3C Trizact clearcoat finishing discs are superb. Ability for the sanding disc to stay sharp, resist pilling and have at least 15holes. Keeping the environment clean at all times, cleaning surface (and edges!) between passes, cleaning the sander between grit changes - is so important. Thanks for the tip re alternating sanders between grits to best determine elimination of prior grit.
@JacobEmch91
@JacobEmch91 2 жыл бұрын
@@ChrisVenablesPianos thanks for the tips! It took me years to figure out a good procedure as well.
@kristopherdetar4346
@kristopherdetar4346 2 жыл бұрын
@@ChrisVenablesPianos soooooooooooo why not tell us this in the video ??
@momzilla9491
@momzilla9491 Жыл бұрын
@@ChrisVenablesPianos Hi Chris, I need to move and can't take my Baby, so I need to get her ready for sale. She was walnut, but I had her refinished Cherry almost 30 years ago. Just beautiful. Sohmer and Company. If you don't mind me asking an Expert, who can I trust to come in and give it a good polishing and how much would you expect that to cost? I had to fire a Handyman/Painter who made a mess of my hardwood floors last week. She's only 5'2", Amazing Queen Ann Legs. Thank you so very much!
@pianoman1258
@pianoman1258 2 жыл бұрын
Shiny!!! 👍👍
@ciararespect4296
@ciararespect4296 Жыл бұрын
Hi there just a question i have a rieger kloss piano under the fall board the original color is much darker mahogany type but the rest of the piano is light. Obviously sun bleached. Its a laquer polyester like finish. How would I go about getting the color back? Would ut just polish darker or does it need stripping and redoing
@yookalaylee2289
@yookalaylee2289 2 жыл бұрын
I use a festool sander and 2000 grit and then buff with a wool pad.
@ChrisVenablesPianos
@ChrisVenablesPianos 2 жыл бұрын
2000 sia sia carat is amazing. Also available 1000 and 3000. All work well dry with extraction too. If the scratches are more significant and the surface not perfectly flat (from fluctuation in timbers beneath) then I need to go coarser without interface pad. Usually 800 but in this video I think I started with a first pass at 500.
@halewhitemusic7525
@halewhitemusic7525 2 жыл бұрын
What kind of compound and polish do you like? I'm a car detailer. Just curious.
@ChrisVenablesPianos
@ChrisVenablesPianos 2 жыл бұрын
Favorite so far is Farecla profile select with twisted wool for first high speed cut, low pressure, then follow with solf lambswool to refine the cut, then Farecla profile finish, then Farecla profile uv polymer wax.
@marianne3024
@marianne3024 2 жыл бұрын
That came out so beautifully! We just bought a fixer upper digital piano mini grand and it has superficial scratches on the lid. Is there a simply way to do it without the sanding? We already had to remove and clean every key and my husband had to polish all the rods and file the holes as about 60 keys were sticking. If I ask him to help me polish the lid I’ll probably get divorced. :) Do you think I’d we just did that polishing compound it would be enough. It’s not a gouge. What do you recommend for a simple buff?
@ChrisVenablesPianos
@ChrisVenablesPianos 2 жыл бұрын
If the gloss finish is polyester lacquer, then superficial scratches can be improved by buffing with a compound. However, a super gloss compound such as typically used with automotive may increase the contrast of the gloss finish and the scratches. It may be easier to disguise the deeper scratches with the use of a more abrasive compound which will create more fine scratches, almost sstin/brushed look. Application would be with a dual action orbital polisher sander. A standard rotary polisher will create swirls if the head is not clean and a finer stage polish follows. The polishing mop head should be lambswool as this cuts better than foam and helps reduce excess heat. Some case parts may be acrylic, which can melt very easily during polishing. Farecla profile select is excellent compound. 3m fast cut marine gelcoat coarse. Rupes mille coarse. At your own risk of course and use PPE at all times, ventilated area, mask off all other areas. Clean with microfiber cloths between stages.
@gaboaaa23
@gaboaaa23 Жыл бұрын
hi, do you have any idea or advise, why im getting this milky finish after polishing? kzfaq.infoH9Atr7NwyhI Sandpapered the piano black finish with wet 3000 grid. I used maguire compund with heavy cut pad. Then used maguire finishing polish with softpad. Shiny is nice and scratches are gone. But left with this milky hazy finish.
@ChrisVenablesPianos
@ChrisVenablesPianos Жыл бұрын
Hi Gabriel, Is this polyester lacquer? It looks as though the compound has not removed the 3000 marks fully. Or the gloss may be clear coat over black base and heat from compounding has caused bloom.
@gaboaaa23
@gaboaaa23 Жыл бұрын
@@ChrisVenablesPianos i dont know! Its the plastic frame of my daughters LCD Tv. I would go for your last thought HEAT. Its totaly even without any micro sratches. I did the same polishing on my blu ray player, but without wetsanding. Just 2 stage polishing. I have this milkyness too on the blu ray player. Ive read that in this case you have to make a third polishing with even finer pad. I did use a finer pad. And the milkyness on the blu ray player got better. But its still there. Ist this Bloom you mentioned it fixable?
@mambawatts
@mambawatts Жыл бұрын
How much is is cost?
@mathieusarrazy2788
@mathieusarrazy2788 2 жыл бұрын
Hello, did you find the grail of sandpaper ? Could you tell your Brand and the model. I tried Mirka Abralon but It do not work for polyester. I am a new piano tuner. Many thanks
@ChrisVenablesPianos
@ChrisVenablesPianos 2 жыл бұрын
This is a Mirka deros 6" sander with 2.5orbit. I use dry / extraction up to 1500. Best sanding discs are Norton ice, BAXT Carbonite, Mirka polar star, 3m trizact 1500 clearcoat. Then 3m trizact 3000 damp. You can use the more expensive but longer lasting and better cut sia carat foam discs for 1k, 2k and 3k. Then compound in 3 stages.
@mathieusarrazy2788
@mathieusarrazy2788 2 жыл бұрын
@@ChrisVenablesPianos oh whoa thank you very much for taking the time to answer me. Finally a good way of research for me. What coarse grit do you use for large scratches? 800 / 500?
@HRTsAFyre
@HRTsAFyre 2 жыл бұрын
Where do you get the polyester resin?
@ChrisVenablesPianos
@ChrisVenablesPianos 2 жыл бұрын
This is the original polyester resin lacquer. By carefully reducing the surface to the depth of the scratches (deep scratches require filling) through a strict sanding procedure, the finish can be polished to like new.
@ChrisVenablesPianos
@ChrisVenablesPianos 2 жыл бұрын
For small chip repairs I use konig repair polyester, also cfs gelcoat or Ica polishable base coat. It depends on if its a pour in repair fill or a spray application.
@PianoDad
@PianoDad Жыл бұрын
@@ChrisVenablesPianos I have a piano I am refinishing. I'm sanding down the entire cabinet. I want to make a polyester black piano finish, but I was curious which you would use for the spray application. Is it the Ica polishable base coat? Do you have a specific product you'd recommend?
@ChrisVenablesPianos
@ChrisVenablesPianos Жыл бұрын
@@PianoDad yes we use ICA 306TP polishable basecoat with BASF RAL9005 Black pigment. Initial mist coat for good adhesion (surface sanded at p180, cleaned down and wiped with pure acetone). 3 coats (allow to become tacky but not wet on wet and not on cured). Flatten down with p500 with hard large block with extraction then go through grits to remove sanding scratches, up to p1500 with extraction, then damp sand 2000 before moving to compounding and polishing. Very important to allow the lacquer to cure for 3 days before polishing. Spray tip 1.8mm or larger, without need to thin. Provided the mist coat has provided good adhesion (tacky before 1st coat) ensure the spray is laying on enough to break surface tension else fisheye can be an issue. If not laid down on tacky, the chemical bond between layers will not be sufficient and will then show holograms when flattening down and polishing. Typically removing around 20% of material applied for the perfect finish, so be sure to apply enough. Of course, be very mindful of the toxicty of this product. Good extraction with filtration in/out of booth, full spray suit and respirator gloves. Accurate measuring of components and thorough mixing are essential. With a short pot life after mixing the MEKP, you will need to clean out the gun between coats and have your next pot ready. Also remember to carefully check the chemist's instructions in the product. Store the cobalt and MEKP in separate cabinets to the lacquer and have an acetone tray ready to start cleaning your gun.
@PianoDad
@PianoDad Жыл бұрын
@@ChrisVenablesPianos Thank you so much for all the instructions!
@davemiller8916
@davemiller8916 3 ай бұрын
No sound and in high speed replay??
@ChrisVenablesPianos
@ChrisVenablesPianos 3 ай бұрын
Apologies. Please refer to description for details. This is a Timelapse. 5 hours reduced to 5 minutes. I am more than happy to create a version next time showing the process with audio description throughout. It was an opportunity to quickly share a refinishing task. I thought you’d not appreciate the normal speed taking 5 hours! It’s something that requires focus, patience and determination for such a result. In principle, I am sanding out wear and imperfections from use including many scratches, then refining the sanding scratches until they are so fine that polishing removes their haze and restores an infinite level of depth and gloss akin to a mirror or still water.
@davemiller8916
@davemiller8916 3 ай бұрын
Thank you kindly for your explanation. Understand and now appreciate the effort you put into your work.
@kristopherdetar4346
@kristopherdetar4346 2 жыл бұрын
No description for grades of sandpaper, etc, etc………………..
@mike-Occslong
@mike-Occslong 3 ай бұрын
what are you doing
@ChrisVenablesPianos
@ChrisVenablesPianos 3 ай бұрын
Hey Mike - I have detailed the process in the description but I do appreciate narration would be more helpful. This is a Timelapse video showing the process of removing significant wear such as scratches and abrasions plus transferred substrate profile in the surface (timber expansion/contraction). The process is sanding with extraction followed by fine damp sanding, compounding and polishing. Working from P600-P2000, twisted wool mop, wool mop, hard then soft foam mops. The result was a finish equal if not better than original factory; without respray.
@richarducci2601
@richarducci2601 2 жыл бұрын
No volume
@ChrisVenablesPianos
@ChrisVenablesPianos 2 жыл бұрын
Yes sorry for that - but as a timelapse it wasn't possible nor beneficial, unless I added a narration - which would have been a good idea! I rarely take before/after or work in progress pics or video, so this timelapse was useful in showing the procedure (5hours) in 5minutes.
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