Patrick Deneen and Michael Anton debate if we need to return to the founders' vision in order to save America.
Пікірлер: 49
@chrismathew22952 жыл бұрын
Patrick Deneen's opening statement is at once incredibly eloquent and tightly argued.
@howardroark3736 Жыл бұрын
The strange thing about the beginning of this for me is that Michael Anton keeps referring to the Founders as having thought they discovered a new science of government, but it’s quite the opposite of how most of them thought. Jefferson believed rule by the people would be self-correcting, and various Founders thought they had done the best job in history of framing a government, but that was mainly because they were taking inspiration from older forms, trying to create checks and balances that emulated the wisdom and avoided the mistakes of prior experiments in self-government. Their decision to include a procedure for Amendments (and then to pass ten of those immediately) shows they had a much more realistic view of their achievement than to think they’d found the *right way* for all time.
@byronsmith17002 жыл бұрын
A brilliant and important discussion. Great minds. Thank you, ISI.
@alongsleep2 жыл бұрын
Patrick Deneen is brilliant.
@jrdougan2 жыл бұрын
Starts at 3:56
@kamilziemian99510 ай бұрын
Great discussion.
@tytyvyllus8298 Жыл бұрын
No one noticed that Anton mixed up Cracker-Jacks with Bazooka Joe gum. The latter had the tiny comic strip on the inside of the wrappers while the former came with a toy in the box
@tytyvyllus8298 Жыл бұрын
Sad!
@alongsleep2 жыл бұрын
I didn't really feel like Anton was engaged in this discussion, he seemed somewhat unserious.
@samuelspiel88552 жыл бұрын
Champions!
@pop3stealth972 жыл бұрын
52:47
@jimmyjames4172 жыл бұрын
The Founders were wrong to rebel against their king, and any pretty words they wrote were to hide this
@DissentOrConcur2 жыл бұрын
The founder were RIGHT in rebelling against the tyrant king.
@williammcenaney133117 күн бұрын
American conservatism convinced me to trade it for North American High Toryism. That happened partly because I'm a staunch traditionalist Catholic monarchist. Don't worry. I won't bore you with theology. Instead, I say I believe "American conservative" is a paradox since American conservatives preserve Locke's classical liberalism.
@Sdedalus-m1f3 сағат бұрын
Thank god no one will pay attention to you.
@danesovic7585 Жыл бұрын
Anton is talking of Frankfurt school as "German import".
@celtaclassroom70826 ай бұрын
He's clearly referring first and foremost to 19th-century German philosophy and the associated reforms in education, which informed the creation of the modern research university in 19th-century America. The Frankfurt School came much later, in the 1920s.
@jameswilson89462 жыл бұрын
Is Anton Catholic?
@celtaclassroom70826 ай бұрын
Yes.
@jameswilson89466 ай бұрын
@@celtaclassroom7082 wow I didn’t realize that. I can’t find anything of him mentioning it.
@celtaclassroom70826 ай бұрын
@@jameswilson8946 I don't know what his current religious views are, I'm just doing the math. But any credible online source - as well as the woke propaganda outlet Wikipedia - says he's of Italian and Lebanese background. Most Lebanese-Americans at the time Anton was born in the 1960s (particularly in his home state of California) were Maronite Catholics and virtually all Italians are (at least in a nominal sense). Marriages between Muslim Arabs and Italian Catholics were essentially non-existent and even today aren't common. So even if he didn't grow up in a practicing religious home, odds are he was raised at least culturally Catholic.
@patrickvernon476611 ай бұрын
The founders existed before capitalism and couldn’t comprehend the centralization of private power. No we can’t go back to them. Besides they were liberals and liberalism is something to overcome
Anton speaking about the Religious Wars - you can't blame the Catholic Church for attacks upon it. Or for the Swedes ransackingthe HRE.
@justinfoard3322 Жыл бұрын
Gutav Adolphus--that savage!
@timeWaster76 Жыл бұрын
NO!
@jimmyjames4172 жыл бұрын
Is Mr. Anton Jewish?
@jimmyjames4172 жыл бұрын
When he said "there may be no way out" at 31:20, that struck me as someone speaking who doesn't have a relationship with Christ. He says it while quoting Leo Strauss, "availability of a solution is not guaranteed, who is also not Christian, right? Is he Jewish?
@douglasmacarthur7022 жыл бұрын
Anton is not Jewish. Wikipedia reports him as having Italian and Lebanese descent. Quoting Leo Strauss is not evidence of someone being Jewish.
@tuckerbugeater2 жыл бұрын
@@douglasmacarthur702 He worked for Citi and Blackrock. That's worse than being a semite.
@CanadianGuerrilla Жыл бұрын
He is Catholic. He says so in an older interview about San Francisco's history.
@justinfoard3322 Жыл бұрын
Massively confused...Has Dr. Deneen changed his views from 2018? Initially, he seemed to argue that America's founding was Hobbesian and, as such, the societal decline we see today can be directly drawn to the intrinsic problems within that Hobbesian project (e.g., the time capsule release argument). Now, he's trying to argue that there was some conspiratorial endeavor to link American founding with mid-20th century liberal concerns. Someone help me, hahaha.
@justinfoard3322 Жыл бұрын
Yeah, as I continue to listen, he has definitely changed his thesis. What was once labelled "first stage liberalism" or "classical liberalism" he now unqualifiedly classifies the founding as "conservative." Very disappointing.
@nulltheworm Жыл бұрын
We don't have the demographics for it anymore. Move on from that dream.
@celtaclassroom70826 ай бұрын
I fear you are right but what should we move on to?
@ripvanwinkle18198 ай бұрын
Bizarre considering the Anglo 13 colonies of north America was distinctly anti catholic and it was virtually outlawed and banished to the french frontier
@rickvinson8324 Жыл бұрын
Patrick Deneen, religious socialist. I can only hope his quest for theocracy never pans out.
@Tyrannosaurus_5000 Жыл бұрын
You engaged absolutely no detail or aspect of his rational arguments.
@justinfoard3322 Жыл бұрын
Hahahahaah, I found the prot heretic!
@donnamattis77492 жыл бұрын
Who are those...the Native Americans?
@ramon2008 Жыл бұрын
Huh? Whachu talking about Willis
@gch8810 Жыл бұрын
The Indians played no part in founding the United States.
@Mike-nq7gb Жыл бұрын
It wasn't fake aboriginal like African Americans claim There are not
@donnamattis7749 Жыл бұрын
I see you don't understand sarcasm. Neither do you know the difference between THEY'RE, THERE. To make it clear for you, I was referring to the Indigenous people...the land after all belongs to them and not the whities!