It is 7pm in Australia. My favourite time to listen to David s raw reviews once again.If Conductor Roth refuses to follow the composer s wishes then he should leave well enough alone! I did not know you could sing David, Keep of the good work, Regards, Richard ( Timpanist )

You left no stone unturned. Every single word you said is absolutely spot on. Roth's performance fits into the contemporary popular self-entitled attitude of, "Screw your expertise. I have alternative facts."

OMG, now I have to seek out and giggle at this train wreck of a recording, thanks again for posting this!

This is a brilliant polemic on the cherry picking of authenticity that period fetishists indulge in as well as the utter indifference today's critics have in previous recordings. No one can know everything but I write reviews and with a new Eroica, I would put it in context in the final paragraph to Bernstein's NY recording, Erich Kleiber's Concertgebouw one, Fricsay as well as performances I don't love but know are important: Karajan, Rattle etc. It's partly lack of space in the newspapers for any comparison but also the age of the blogger and influencer excited by a freebie and being too disinterested to explore the million ways the Eroica can sound like. I like both period and romantic approaches but so many refuse to listen to anything with vibrato or recorded pre digital. Similarly so many film students can't cope with any pre 1970 film, let alone silent. The irony, as you pointed out, is that we have unparalleled access to all these things and mainly for free on KZfaq. Thanks for a great video and call to arms. Another fidgety obtuse Beethoven recording, praised to the sky until the next one lands on the critic's lap.

Some plucky orchestra should record a re-enactment of that Rossini opera performance Spohr described.

I must confess that I am often tempted to listen to these types of performance for the shear perversity of it.

It's a fact that you can't make an honest and accurate HIP without a few drunken violinists, hangover percussionists, last minute hired viola players and maybe one or two singers with syphilis. That's the real 19th century's orchestra style

If it's 10am (London time), it's Dave again! Keep them coming. Especially the ones I don't have to buy 😃

What do you think of Roth's Debussy and Rave? Have not yet checked CT for a review.

Can you do a music chat about pieces in which as you say "the music plays itself" and talk about why and what the dangers are if the conductor doesn't recognize this?

For the first two chords of the symphony I'm just now listening the Münchner Philharmoniker & Rudolf Kempe 1972 EMI recording, and they did very much the same but with fuller and richer sound.

I've never heard the Collegium Aureum Eroica, but the HIP purists don't like them because they use modern strings and modern pitch. Tafelmusik with Bruno Weil is my favorite HIP performance. Tempos are reasonable (less pressured than Gardiner), and the strings play with more vibrato than with other similar groups.

Just found it on KZfaq. Horrible. Why do these "authentic" bands always sound as if they are playing on tinny, cheap violins? I often wonder what Beethoven would have thought about the sound that modern symphony orchestras produce. I have a suspicion that he would have preferred their sound to what he had at his disposal when he was writing his music. Just an opinion of course.

Very interesting to hear your opinions on the current state of classical music criticism. Would love to hear your views on the Joyce Hatto affair/scandal that rocked the classical critical world some years ago...

My theory is that a lot of those reviews you mention are hidden advertising. In that case it would make total sense not to mention the competition.

I don't know the exact meaning of these words in English but I think there is a difference between write "critic" and write "review". In these days everyone can write review about anything. I think that a review is nothing other than an opinion. Everybody has opinion... The critic is more than a review. The correct critic needs the requirements you mentioned too.

Would you consider to upload this videos on Spotify?

You are so correct! This "performance" is available on KZfaq. It's totally muddled, lacks clarity, lacks variation in texture and color, and fails to deliver emotional impact. However, the one thing you say on Roth's behalf is that he semi-consistently arpeggiates chords throughout the symphony. We could call it Beethoven/Roth, Symphony No. 3, "Arpeggiato"!

The only thing worse than Roger Norrington is a Roger Norrington wannabe.

"And now it is my pleasure to announce....."😂😂😂

For me, the Bruno Walter performance, in stereo, on Columbia, is the best. Roth I do not appreciate.

Will the next CD with Beethoven's 3rd be the one where David Hurwitz sings all the parts?

I just listened to the first movement on Idagio. I had all sorts of images, one of a pianist too worried about striking the keys too too hard, not wanting to disrupt the flowing elegance of a moment; another of Beethoven - not as we usually imagine him - but as Hercule Poirot. It sounded to me like Roth did have a consistent idea about what he was after - smooth, soft, flowing, even elegant. It's just as you said; it's not really about Beethoven, but more about Roth trying hard to make Beethoven into someone well-behaved, moderate, gentle, elegant, tasteful - no rough edges or raw emotion. Maybe deep down Roth doesn't really like Beethoven.

Any chance of you naming and shaming those critics who thought this was wonderful?

I was sucked in a bit by his 5th (and the hype around it - this was before I discovered your videos). It struck me even then that he was using period instruments to do his Own Thing with them, and I thought the 5th had moments of excitement and interest. I also don’t mind some of his ideas in Ravel and Debussy. But this was, to my ears, an entirely different beast. The arpeggiated chords really break the mood, and he seems incapable of sustaining interest in long lines and developing ideas. It has struck me that he seems to be wanting to appeal to audiences with short attention spans who want the occasional sensations. Hence the weird accents and chords. And the Eroica leaves him exposed, more than other works. Hence why I don’t want to touch his Mahler. Thanks again for providing a challenge to the paucity of good reviewers around.

....so, just listened to the first two movements. What is Roth's principal instrument I wonder? HURDY GURDY??? Y'know, I was reminded of large 19th century Nickolodeons they used to have at fairs I've heard in museums. So. Weird. And worst of all, much of the time the orchestra is RUSHING THE TEMPO to where it's almost uncontrolled. No self respecting musician would ever play this symphony without a conductor like this. But it sure did make me giggle, OMG!

He was spared the scarf of irredeemable chutzpah though.

I love the symphony---------Beethoven's Eroica voted greatest symphony of all time----Beethoven’s thrilling, electrifying Eroica, a piece of music originally dedicated to Napoleon and celebrating the revolutionary spirit sweeping Europe, has been named the greatest symphony of all time by the world’s greatest conductors.

I sampled a large chunk of his discography (strauss, berlioz, ravel, mussorgsky) and they were all disappointing. to put it mildly

Just listened to the first 30 seconds of it on KZfaq after hearing you. I'm amazed I managed all 30 of those seconds.

KZfaq does not allow you to post links to other KZfaq videos, but you can hear this performance if you enter "Roth Eroica" in the search bar. I thought you were kidding about the first two chords, but there it is. It sounds like an LP played on a turntable with extreme wow and flutter.

You’ve revealed a fatal, innate, duplicitous flaw in the HIPster condition. If these conductors truly wanted to be consistent with the performances of the time, they’d have to fire themselves! Obviously, that’s not going to happen, lest it impinge upon careers and egos like Roth’s. As for best critical practices, with a piece recorded hundreds of times like the Eroica it is always useful when the reviewer compares a new album with different reference recordings. It helps the reader situate the new disc within the various traditions that exist in interpreting a piece. Surely it makes no sense to write a review as if the Eroica had been recorded two or three times rather than two or three hundred (or more) times.

I loved this review as much as I'm sure I would hate the performance The review just left me with a couple of unanswered questions: what happened to the The Scarf of Chutzpah, not to speak of The Shawl of Shame??!!

Rectangular wooden tires on a car would be innovative, new, different. But still stupid. Which as a t-shirt once told me, is not okay!

Totally agree, this is a monstrous interpretation! You have to feel for the orchestra, who are excellent(!), having to play this garbage!!

Just listened to the first movement. I can imagine this is how the clown band played the Eroica at the Ringling Bros. circus, and, as such, I kinda like it. I'll probably end up buying it as a perverse alternative in my collection of 50+ Eroicas. Thanks for the tip.

What makes it depressing, having just listened to it on KZfaq, is that no one involved, least of all Roth, actually seems to believe in what they are doing, but still they go through with it, trying as best they can to sound energetic and committed. You know, one thing about the Eroica, especially the first movement, is that the rhythm carries through from beginning to end: that's what makes it so exciting. I've sometimes wondered (don't shoot me!) if a classical conductor in the Ellington or Basie mould might not make a very good job of it. Sadly Roth isn't that man, or woman.

Roth is a poor conductor in most repertoire. His Debussy holds little attraction for me, regardless of the age of the instruments he's using.

Love the black T-shirt. Looks sharp. As for Roth's Eroica, not so much.

I have been singularly unimpressed with Roth’s schtick. Has anyone ever produced such a monochromatic Symphonie fantastique? Yet he has a cult following. Not being a HIPster, easy for me to say.

personally, i do like HIP stuff -- especially what i'd call 'the second generation of HIP (or HIP-inspired) performers/performances'. I usually enjoy Järvi's approach to music, or Zinman's, for that matter, or Jacobs's before he went utterly crazy, and his effort became dreadful. And i still believe HIP movement has given us, the music lovers, quite a lot. However (yes, however), it's hard for me to believe how nonsensical this 'movement' has become. It must've happened over the past one and a half decades or so: just think about all these tasteless maestro-pretenders like Antonini (i'm sure they pay him a lot, the International Haydn-Mocking Society of Rich People Offended by Haydn Two Centuries Ago -- don't they?), Mario Venzago (AKA Bruckner's Bane) or Heras-Casado (an enemy of music, that's that) -- to name just a few (and yes, yes: Norrington was always there -- but for a long time he was more like an exception). The worst thing is, nowadays these guys -- and all the rest alike -- don't even try to be daring, shrewd or innovative. They don't even care about most rudimentary things -- like the advantages given to them simply by having a different balance of a classical or early romantic orchestra, whether it is truly historically informed (at least to some degree -- i'm not talking about Schoenderwoerd's bullshit) or not. Honestly, all of this makes me sad. But at least i can listen to your review, Dave, once again on point, and cheer for a while. You're absolutely right -- not only about this shitty CD, but also about the quality of current music journalism. It's such a fun, listening to your roasts, and such a pity that within the classical music industry you're in the minority.

I am so tired of these "historically informed" performances. Thank you for this review, whatever you think of Toscanini, Furtwangler, Karajan, Szell, et al, they were much closer to what Beethoven intended!

I'm going to make a clip of David's singing the Eroica as my wake alarm tune.

I too have noticed the same (hipster?) lack of historical context in the world of literary and film criticism, if you're interested. Someone says this film or book is the greatest thing since sliced bread and you know, having read some books and watched films that came out before 1970, that it's not so mindblowing and original after all because it was done better and with more sensitivity, grace and artistry decades before. I've also seen the rise of 'urgent,' frenetic music on film soundtracks, usually to hide the vacuity of the plot or the incompetence of the director.

If you search on KZfaq for the first movement from this particular cd, you'll notice that it has been awarded 17 thumbs-up and 18 thumbs-down.

I can't help think you need another scarf, the black scarf of awfulness. Black inspired by the two appalling recordings of the Eroica.

A conductor's duty, first and foremost, is to be as faithful as humanly possible to what the composer wrote in the score. Nowhere can I find in Beethoven's "Eroica" score (Roth's may have a totally different "authentic" score?) that justifies his "interpretation" or (as an apparent supporter of Roth commented) "different" approach. David is right. Emperor Roth has no clothes. Of course, his "Eroica" CD sells likely because it is "different" (from say, Toscanini's or any other great conductors'). As one comment says he purchased the Roth CD just wanted to hear for himself. Without these "believers" the CD would not sell. That's also why freak show sells. That said, this is a free country and it's your money. So, indulge yourself if you like or are curious about Roth's freak show.

I know recordings are your thing, but why don’t you talk on historically informed venues! As a Londoner, I enjoy going to the Proms at the Albert Hall, that giant barn and reaching over the balcony to try and here anaemic depleted strings perform historically informed performance. I don’t pretend to know what Beethoven thought any more than anyone else but I do have a feeling he might say “couldnt you find any more players???? Look at the people out there!”

At the risk of beating a dead horse, maybe some of these "period instrument" or "period interpretation" recordings should have been recorded using "period" recording equipment.

I will stick with my dinosaurs like Fur...t, Tosc..., Mengel,... Koussevi... Klemp, and Kleib,,, Burp!! and above all, Knappertsbusch. Rothoven is not for me.

Roth's take isn't so much an interpretation as it is an apology.

I live in Boston and Roth comes at least once a year to guest conduct the BSO. I'll be sure to avoid his concerts. Thanks for the warning!

I think random trills and a nice Viola da gamba cadenza just before the coda would have given it an authentic "feel"...After all this is what Herr Bonkersberg told us how we should play in 1762 and we shall follow it till modern society collapses.

I stopped listening after the first two chords…

Why are there so many bad Eroicas? It's a conspiracy by the descendants of Napoleon, because Beethoven changed the dedication! :)

Such HIPocricy!!

Just had a listen of the beginning. Pretty horrible indeed; wruaaap wruaaap.

I'm convinced that my dogs could conduct better performances than either Norrington or Roth can!

Jesus....I just heard the first 3 minutes from every movement..it was horrible...ruined from the very beggining....im sorry..but if he wants to pretend this is beethoven...butchering it...im not sure he REALLY cares much for these pieces...None of this ...these "ideas" ..should have been recorded...