While I agree that it pissed me off to no end, I do think we were given a reason why Lirin has become such an extreme pacifist. In the scene where Hesina talks to Lirin about his attitude, she tells him that he has to stop blaming himself for Tien’s death. Lirin was already quite the pacifist, but the one time he ‘fought’, it was against Roshone. And it lost him his son. I think that pushed him over the edge, to where he’s now become the irrational pacifist

Without the flashbacks, Rhythm of War is my favorite book in the series.

One aspect I think is really underrated in Rhythm of War is just how messed up of a villain Moash is (but compelling as well). The man says Kaladin cannot be defeated by anyone except himself, so he tries to get Kaladin to kill himself. That is some seriously dark reading but a super interesting and compelling villain that I thought was so well done in the book. I haven't seen that type of villian done before and I think Sanderson does it well and it makes Kaladins triumph that much more satisfying.

My favourite moment of all the Cosmere is in this Book. The 4 Oath is incredible.

Richard's words at the end made me really want to express the gratitude I have for this series. "The way of kings" was the first book I picked up when the war in Ukraine started and it made my days so much brighter and happier. I was reading it during air alarms in the basement and it made me forget about what's going on outside. Also I'm so glad that I found your podcast. Love your dynamics and I think your criticism on this series is the only one I can accept without getting angry 😅

Rlain is one of my favorite characters, and i love him in this book. And a pleasent suprise is Dabbid, he is so interesting and i want to see more of him.

While I’m a grown man, I can admit this book made me cry like a baby when Kal was falling outside the tower and the vision arrived. Got me in all the feels lol

You. Cannot. Have. My. SACRIFICE!

I can’t get enough of the banter between you guys 😂 big things are coming for this channel, and I can’t wait for the Austin and Brandon interview 👌

After a series re read, this book went from 4th place to 1st for me. There's so many subtle lore drops, and character development that I really enjoyed once I new what characters were getting the most page time and set my expectations.

I too have considered starting a podcast to get early access to Brandon's books. 😂😂😂 You guys are awesome!

I agree with the Lirin sucks f him part, but he has a "motive" for being that way, which is that the last time he tried to "fight" against someone that was over his rank or status his sons were made soldiers and sent to die

Love your reviews ! They are so detailed and immersive !! Emotional Impact: For me personally I thought this book had a ton of emotional scenes, especially little scenes like Raboniel with her daughter and the entire Rhythm of war scene and the ending with Eshonai and Teft. Also with Taravangian cause he is such an interesting character. I'd say that I am glad Brandon made this a Parshendi flashback because and some might not agree, I actually really cared for them by the end which i say is a win for me. Characters: Navani and Kal are amazing in this book so I agree with everything! So about Venli....I actually really liked her, yes she started all of this but if you see her story is quite similar to Teft when he was a child. The flashbacks for me felt important and deserved and I needed a book with the parshendi cause we've been hard on them since book 1 and i felt connected to them and their dilemmas and fascination with the humans. One flashback with eshonai and dalinar was so important to me and the one with Venli and Axindweth who I guess is a terriswoman. Like there is still so much mystery. The flashbacks with Jaxilm and their culture really fascinated me, I thought it was really beautiful .The fact that eshonai wanted to explore and her genuine curiosity about Roshar is so sad cause we know she dies and we know she has to give up her dreams due to gavilar and the revival of their old gods. I loved when she said I am sorry we had to do this, it kinda hurt because they lived such simple lives and now they are stuck. The ending with her and the stormfather got to me in am I was not expecting and I was a sobbing mess. So overall I loved that we got more of the parshendi, loved we got a closure and am hoping Venli to have a better character development. Also Rlain and Dabbid were amazing in the book, including Teft and his scenes with Kaladin. I'll miss him very very much (i'll miss him calling Kal "lad"). I agree with Shallan and the entire persona thing but i can't help but feel there is a lot more mystery to it than we expect, like do you guys think Chana is her mother? Also Thaidakar!!? damn now i need him to be in roshar. Plot: Honestly the story did kinda feel stagnant but I loved it nonetheless cause the reveals were amazing. It also raised the stakes for me, like hoid losing his memories, Todium, Ishar with spren bodies (phsyco) and the entire mystery behind nightblood ( love the sword!). I kinda feel like Kaladin's story is never really integrated into the plot, it feels personal which i appreciate but it also feels like a different story all together. I am glad he is pairing up with Szeth in SA 5 and i do hope he as more play in the plot because we know Odium(rayse) said that he is a bigger trouble than he anticipated and even Taravangian to some extent thinks Kal as a threat but I feel like he is never really there for the bigger plot like he was in WOK or WOR. I want to see some mystery surrounding him and I DON'T WANT HIM TO DIE. Like again Kal is not gonna be there for champion war, I just want him integrated into the plot like Dalinar is. PS: also do you guys think that maybe Tarah could return somehow? I'd love to see that. Tarah coming back in a bad ass way. The whole thing surrounding lift, dalinar and Taravangian is interesting. Who will the nightwatcher bond with??

This book is the weirdest for me to see opinions on. I like this book not too much less than Oathbringer, which is my favorite book in the series.

RoW is my favorite book in the series. For me the ranking would be 1. RoW 2. WoR 3. WoK 4. OB

It's always funny to see peoples opinons on RoW. For me the book is the best in the series by a large margin, it's the first book that has made me sob, not cry but actually sob. As someone who has struggled alot with mental health it was very cathartic to read especially the "dog and the dragon" segment. Its probably my favourite book of all time. That said the book is very polarising and i find alot of people either love it as much as i did or have it as their least favourite like you guys.

The following statement is not accepted “Moash>Lirin”.

For the record. I clicked on this episode even though I haven’t read RoW yet, but that’s only because wheel of time and rage of dragons are currently being read/listened to

New drop from the Ramblers! Excellent way to start the week, gents.

OB was almost a struggle for me. I love Dalinar but didnt care for the flashbacksa. I did like the end and the pay off was good. Row is my favorite. The Navani stuff was amazing. Kaladin was awesome in this book. And I Moash is the worst( in a good way). The cosmere stuff. I think went through this book faster than any other.

Love you guys. Love your review. Love your opinions and almost completely agree with you both. As an audiobook listener, it tweaks me expensively to hear Adolin pronounced as AH-doh-lin instead of AY-doh-lin. Especially as he is in my top 3 characters. You guys do what you want with that, but be aware that there will be that dissociation for a non-insignificant minority of Sanderson readers. Keep up the good reviews!

Moash > Lirin 😂 These are so great you guys, I’m loving your content it’s great for re-experiencing the books and getting to witness discussion about them, your humor is killer and your analysis is a lot of fun. Keep up the great work! I hope to read some of the other books you’ve reviewed so that I can listen to those pods as well 👍🏼 Also I would love to hear you guys go through all the Mistborn books as well!

Moash>Lirin overall I found the book to be my favorite because my bread and butter is going into magic systems and studying them. Also just the relationship between Navani and Raboniel has got to be my favorite dynamic so far. When it comes to Shallan who is probably my favorite of the main three I will say I was slightly disappointed by her resolution, however after two books of struggling with the same problem I will just enjoy the fact that she has begun to move forward and can’t wait to see what she is doing in book 5. In terms of pros I also agree that Sanderson has really amazing pros for what he is trying to do. As someone who loves Tolkien’s world but not as much his pros, not that I can’t appreciate them from a literary point of view, I just really enjoy the readability that you get from Sanderson while still keeping it complex in the ideas and themes. As a final side note when it comes to book five there are so many things to look forward to but something I’m curious about in general is how many cosmere crossovers we will get with characters and story lines. I know that era two of mistborn is supposed to take place between books 5 and 6 but Brandon has stated that the gloves are coming off moving forward from The Lost Metal so I wonder if that will effect SA5 in unplanned ways. Overall I enjoyed listening to the review.

Holy cow I love your content. I am in love with BOTH OF YOU.

I just recently finished ROW and Navani's character was a huge step up from previous books as well as Venli even though I'm still not the biggest fan of her character Eshonai seemed like a better character to me.

Loved the review (haven't finished watching at 21 minutes) and I agree with the ratings till now. To me this book had an instance which was extremely remarkable in my entire reading history. I started reading quite late and have not read a lot of books so it could very well be quite tame for others. Spoilers for a bit from this book: At one point there is a discussion of flying from Braize to Roshar. And that moment has been etched in my brain. I was like Taravangian on his good day, just seeing possibilites. Because I had these blinders on while reading fantasy that you cannot up and leave a planet even if you have a god like powers. Characters don't do it. And even if there are different planets the way that you think of going from one to another is more 'magic-y' like maybe a closet. And vice versa in Sci-fi if character just discusses about leaving a planet by flying out of it, it's not something that sticks out to me. But that moment changed everything, it just gave me such a different perspective to this world and series in general. I was already loving the science based approach this book had about what essentially is magic and when that hammer dropped, I was floored. You don't have to accept it for what it is like you generally have to with fantasy. Now the sequence of logic and questions and events that the characters have make sense. I am making it seem much big of a deal than it might be, but it seriously stayed with me. I think I forgot a lot of the book already. Again, it could be quite tame for avid readers but to me that was one of the most 'awesome' moments as a reader of fantasy, ever. Edit: OOOOOOOHHHH I HAVE THE SAME THING. I have the same thing with the name. My brain when reading names does the dalinar thing when he hears his wife's name.

Jesus Christ I had completely forgotted that Teft died 😭 Damn you Moash I was your biggest defender!

I loved this book. Least favorite one of the series but I still loved it. Especially because of the closure we get with Eshonai's death in the last chapter.

Finally took you guys long enough 🤣

Austin, you need to catch up with the rest of the Cosmere! Maybe pick one up as a pallet cleanser between Wheel of Time books.

finally able to watch the spoiler section of this review because i just finished RoW...and just hearing you say the words "the dog and the dragon" gave me chills. the best chapter i have read to date in all of SLA. absolutely incredible. maybe i have recency bias but RoW just topped Oathbringer for the top spot for me. just a delight to read, especially knowing that it's on the heels of WaT.

Brandon was in Korea (not in China) as a missionary in his 20s

I’ve been going through your content and this video tipped me over into subscribing. I too have considered starting a booktube channel solely so I can someday connect with a cool author.😅 I find it fascinating that all of your critiques/cons of Rhythm of War I agree with, yet it’s potentially my #1 Stormlight book! {Moash>Lirin}

Moash > Lirin. Hands down couldn’t agree more. Great review!

I am just finishing WOT 14 and will be very interested to hear your thoughts!

Have you guys read the rest of the Cosmere books? It would be cool to hear your thoughts on how the magic systems from other Cosmere novels interact with surgebinding.

Liren is a way of the leave follower, he world hopped from WoT

Moash > Lirin, at least he got the black fit drip, cmon... Lots of love from the italian friend, waiting for the walkthrough of the whell of time.🎉✌️😁

Really hope you get the book early❤

For me ranking would be: 1. WoR 2. Oathbringer 3. RoW 4. WoK

My ranking is at the top: WoK, OB, then WoR/RoW are tied.

It's very probable that we are going to see more about Navani's past when we have the book of Jasnah or the Book of Renarin

Lirin said at the end thats he's like that to kal because in the first book when he pushes back on the person running the town. They sent Tien into the military wich led to him getting killed. He blames himself for that and doesn't want kaladin to die.

I can’t tell sometimes if certain reviewers have read other coamere books or just mistborn and stormlight, if you haven’t read other coamere books yet please do while they aren’t “necessary” they make everything else so much better and I really think Brandon is fully intending for this to be a complete story across a whole universe, but obviously he’s made it so people can enjoy stormlight without that if they don’t want to fully invest

I am burnt out on stormlight. Not too excited for WoR. Probably gunna start reading first law and I’ll get around to WoR later

They said you must be on that book but I'm still on book 1 lol.

Im now caught up on Red Rising and stormlight 😢.

I have seen a lot of people who hate Lirin and honestly, I didn't hate him. I like where it ends for him and Kaladin.

I like rhythm of war but it does have pacing issues but all of them are great

Moash

6:54 the thing is... 4th book is not yet translated in my language, so im watching non-spoiler book reviews😢😅 Im not that good in English to read some 1400-page book where half of words isn't real, and half of them i dont know. (Actually, im not sure, I'd never tried to read fantasy book in English, but im scared to😐)

Man all I’ve got from this is Ritchie caving to Austin and lowering every time…stand firm Richard!

22:32 I literally do the same thing lmao

Moash > Lirin I don’t like Moash, but he is a character, whereas Lirin only exists as an ineffective contrast for Kaladin. He made more sense the second time through, but he is still unreasonable

Hair dude is nice, bald guy is fun.

Moash > Lirin >>> the video game boss fused Kaladin beats down repeatedly

I haven’t read RoW yet because I decided to read the rest of the cosmere first so I don’t miss any of the references. But I have seen spoiler because of this decision. Fuck Moash

1) Words of Radiance 2) Rhythm of War 3) Way of Kings 4) Oathbringer

There was a moment in this book where mid chapter I closed the book, picked up my phone, went to my respective book discord, and ranted about how much I HATE Lirin. It ended with “TLDR Lirin is a fucking asshole and a piece of shit father and maybe always has been.” That being said… Moash has literally killed innocent people so I can’t go as far as Richard 😂 but if Lirin has no haters, I must be dead.

About Lirin, i diverge in the opinion about him. Because he is right with the information he has. For him war is stupid, and he is right. For him war destroy who fight in them, and he is right, war destroyed Kal, the Kal that Lirin knew sied again, again and again. The only difference is something that we as the audience, know something Lirin don't: The fused are lead by the personification of divine hate, aside from that (Something that anyone would go "yeah i bet they think the same of us") what reason he has to actively think the Knights Radiants are in the right? The Alenthi are warmongerer, genocides that the culture literally killed one of his sons, the Singers... did nothing bad? Nothing the Singers did can compare with the atrocities the Alenthi does, so why resist? And going for my other reason i like Lirin: he was not a stupid pacifist, he was always against violence (And in tha time he was right, being a soldier is a stupid profession in the Alenthi culture) but he did resisted, he fought for what it was right, just not with violence. And what (he thinks) happened when he resisted? Tien got killed and his other son disappeared for years, the only time Lirin actively resisted against someone he lost everything. "Why someone would respect Lirin" Because he is intelligent, because he is a doctor for free. Because he is not violent, because he is a good person and he was a good father, distant? Yeah, but Kal never considered Lirin a bad father, and never doubted he loved him. And about the hospital scene. Both of them are wrong. Kal acted in impulse, without thinking, without preparing himself, without a,weapon. Kal is do insanely stronger andmore skilled than anyone in tha room, he could not have killed, but he acted out of fear and put everyone in that hospital at risk to safe Teft. He put himself in a situation he had to kill. And off course Lirin is wrong for also acting in impulse and having that breakdown. The fact that Lirin remembers me of my father also helps to improve my opinion on him.

Still haven’t finished Rythm of War (it’s been a real slog for me) and I think the worst part about this book so far is the entire shadesmare side quest. I’m only on chapter 40 (this book could seriously use some editing imo) but I really don’t care about Shallan or Adolins plot at the moment

Actually RoW was much better for me on reread. I would say it’s the least best book out of the rest Stormlight books. Also, Moash > … Sorry, can’t do it.

I already thought Oathbringer was a step down for Stormlight after the first two books, but Rhythm of War made it far worse

Huge miss on Lirin imo, Austin asking for some backstory like maybe he has a tragedy we don’t know about. TIEN!! Tien’s death doesn’t just serve Kaladin’s arc but Lirin’s too. He was already a pacifist and then the only time he fought back against his oppressors (then the light eyes) he lost both his sons to the war.

Read the first four of The Stormlight Archive but won't be going any further. It's just so much filler and goes so slow. Could've been told just as effectively in half the page count. That entire Shalon alter ego thing never worked for me. Sanderson's style just doesn't work for me. Too needlessly wordy for my tastes.

Moash>lirin

You can't compare Blues Brothers to The Lord of the Rings. They're just too different. Both being masterpieces, in their own rights. As far as Rhythm of War goes, it was my least favorite Stormlight book (so far) but still better than 90% of fantasy books I've read, overall. That being said, Sanderson always learns as he goes. He tries out new ideas, sometimes takes bigger chances than he should, but always listens to feedback and uses it as a chance to improve. This is one of the reasons he's been writing so many standalone books lately. He's been experimenting with different writing styles and techniques. Strengthening his skills in areas that he sees as weaknesses, as well as areas that are new territory for him. That way he'll be able to have even better execution with his ongoing masterwork, The Stormlight Archive, without having to use techniques he hasn't fully developed yet, or ones that simply may not work. For instance, one area he seems to struggle with (and I think most people will agree) is comedy. And it just so happens that his most recent standalone is a comedy. I've heard it wasn't very good, though, so hopefully he will continue to learn and develop in this area until he can really nail comedic writing. Even in books that don't focus much on comedy, when something that's supposed to be funny doesn't land it's seriously cringy. That's something Stephen King struggles with a lot, as well. I can't count the number of times I cringed at poorly written humor in SK books. And the way he'll have his characters laughing so hard (at something that isn't funny, whatsoever) that they're holding their sides with tears streaming down their faces, "howling with laughter" (as he likes to put it), and sometimes even falling on the floor and rolling around, makes it 10x worse.

Lirin > Moash but also, prose of Rothfuss > prose of Tolkien Sorry guys 😅😅

1.Words of Radiance 2.Way of Kings 3.Rhythm of War 4.Oathbringer Sorry i really don't understand what's up with the oathbringer obssession, it was weaker than the rest.

Moash > Lirin The name things is a dyslexic thing, I read names and fail sound them out in my head too. I really wasn't too sure about RoW on my first read through but someone told me it is better if you read it again...could be my favourite now.

I really hated Vinli’s chapters.

That is interesting about using Mongol history/culture for the Alethi worldview .... It's ta-tar tho, not tar-tar, I learned after thinking it was tar-tar all my life by reading the Conqueror Series by Conn Iggulden 😆

I felt like this was a good book .. but while I used to be ok / ho hum / take it or leave it about Navani ... in this one I found myself actually loathing one of the main characters. She came across as an unethical, ruthless, selfish traitorous World War II scientist morality ... coupled with the collaborator vibe .. sorry strong words but she was just yuck to me because she was all that but dressed up as a Mary Sue that we're supposed to worship :P Sorry I know this is strongly worded but she ALMOST ruined the book for me... :(

I think Austin was way too harsh on this book, especially on the worldbuilding and character scores.

You guys have excessively high wishes. It's impossible to do everything in a book, even if it's 1300 pages.

mash >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lirin and every other character in the series

Moash > Lirin

Eshonai should've stayed alive and be the focus of Rhythm of War. Venli is not nearly as interesting as Eshonai was (and still is).

I'm listening on audio and I'm skipping the flashbacks. Sorry not sorry.

Moash > Lirin. Honestly, I'm not a Moash hater. I love what he brings to the series and I get excited whenever he shows up on the page. How will his presence alter the plans our heroes have made? He is the element of chaos that makes so many scenes that much more impactful! Is he a POS? Yes, and I love him for it!

MOASH > LIRIN FOR SURE

MOASH > LIRIN

Moash > Lirin

Moash>Lirin

Moash > Lirin

Moash>Lirin