what you don't realise is herring did this entire interview blacked up

I’ve just watched the 3rd series of of After Life. It was devoid of any comedy, in any way shape or form.

I told this guy to look up Stewart lee and he just told me that he thought he was a "discount Ricky gervais" deleted off my phone.

He isn't even transphobic he's pointing out obvious hypocrisies, which themselves have torn communities apart.

I absolutely fucking love both Lee and Herring for their stance on this. It’s something that affects a family member personally and I appreciate every word of what they are saying.

I knew there was a reason I respected Richard herring

Ricky Gervais is the Don McLean of comedy: He did one amazing thing years ago followed by a bunch of stuff that's passable at best.

It's interesting to hear something from that sliver of time when Jimmy Savile was a nation treasure venerated in death.

2:44 'I'm not sure he cast her in Grange Hill, maybe he did. Maybe his tentacles go back into the past". That had me in stitches.

Who's the other guy speaking in this? He makes such a great point about people who will leap to their favourite celebrity's defense regardless of what they've said or done, especially when he references Morrissey fans.

Herring is a gentleman.

Don’t mind me I’m just here to laugh at KZfaq’s shit comment system 9 years ago

Bet your not regretting that Jimmy Savile joke now!

At least he doesn't have 'The Invention of Lying' to his name. That would be a serious blemish on anyone's CV.

Once again the majority of the internet community have nothing intelligent or profound to say. Herring has explained each point thoroughly, highlighting various misconceptions and misunderstandings about what he said, and the broken records come out to just attack him or compare him to Gervais without contending with any of the issues he has raised. If there is a hell I think we must be living in it right now.

Love Herring, fucking dude!

I think he was ruined by fame. If you see interviews he did when The Office first got popular, you can see him thinking for a second before coming out with a really subtle, perfectly phrased joke. Now he seems to just vomit the most obvious, cheap jokes straight out of his face. I think he's been convinced he's a comedy genius and has lowered his standards.

Bring back TMWRNJ with Richard, Stewart and Nathalie.

I am afraid that it has been all downhill for Gervais since The Office. Check out his lockdown vlogs, comes over like a sad old drunk.

I thought it was PERFECTLY clear. Amazed it got thumbs down so quickly.

It was Gervais' reaction to the criticism that was particularly bothersome. I'd have believed that he didn't know what the word meant, I didn't either. But when you find out, just say sorry and stop using it.

Look, to avoid any confusion just run things past Richard Herring first to see if it is acceptable

The word 'mong' is certainly not one that I have ever come across at school, the only people i know who use it are people like Ricky Gervais who are using it as an insult. The reason so many complained is because in many people's mind it still is an insult towards the disabled. Words can still cause harm. The whole 'changed meaning' argument doesn't work unless it has been accepted to have a different meaning univerally. To be honest, the word is old-fashioned and dated.

Aw bless Richard Herring, I love him.

Sounds like a pretty coherent well thought out conversation to me...

At the end of the day Ricky Gervais has spoke out against disabilism in his comedy. Put simply he should have known better than to use a word like "mong". As someone with a sevely autisitc sister myself im with Richard Herring all the way on this one. People are failing to realise that words like that are offensive to disabled people.

Gervais was new to twitter at the time, that is what he meant. Not all the features are immediately obvious.

I never denied the transition. The difference is, the word "idiot" actually has shifted meaning where it means something at least different enough for it to not be specifically offensive. "Mong" however still has heavy connotations of downs syndrome. So you're saying doctors aren't allowed to call patients "obese" (as i also said) but you think they're allowed to diagnose someone officially as an "idiot savant"? That is NOT a term used in modern times.

I love The Smiths and I love a lot of the lyrics he's wrote, but you can not deny the outlandish and dickish crap that he has come out with over the years. Using the Oslo massacre in 2011 to preach vegetarianism (I'm a vegetarian myself and thought it was beyond ridiculous of him to say what he said at such a time) and referring to the Chinese as a "subspecies" are two examples that spring to mind.

Everybody mad! Just be nice to people, everyone. Including the disabled. That is all you need to worry about. Mong is not OK to say as long as people find it offensive. It will be OK to say when no significant number are offended. Gervais does not decide what is offensive.

I wonder of the person who was offended by the Jimmy Saville joke is still offended?

FYI Idiot is an offensive word. It means mong. 'In 19th and early 20th century medicine and psychology, an "idiot" was a person with a very severe intellectual disability. In the early 1900s, Dr. Henry H. Goddard proposed a classification system for intellectual disability based on the Binet-Simon concept of mental age. Individuals with the lowest mental age level (less than three years) were identified as idiots; imbeciles had a mental age of three to seven years, and morons had a mental age of seven to ten years' Funny old world, eh?

Fair point mate, can't argue with that!

I think you should check your sources. They still hold the world record for the most downloaded podcast of all time. When they started, podcasting was a very new thing, the success of their show really showed people what you can do with it and how many people you can reach. As for them starting anything of much note: The Office anyone? Even if you dislike Gervais you have to admit that The Office changed a lot of things in terms of sitcom style and writing.

I love Richard Herring, and I love Ricky Gervais. Richard Herring is very underrated as a comedian, but doesn't make him lesser in any way. Ricky has some fantastic stuff, but has gone off the boil with a lot of his stuff. It's a shame that he can't see the error of his ways. I hope that he gets back to his prime, because the early stand up shows - Politics and Animals were brilliant, as well as other things he's done.

This is exactly why I'm not on Twitter.

Gervais, I realised during Derek, was his attempt at career atonement. Not actual atonement, but a blind in the form of Derek, who, in his first incarnation years ago, was not the sympathetic type of the series, but a figure of fun. That Gervais would apply such a heavy revisionism to Derek sounds almost ludicrous until you listen to him in interview in the last couple of years and realise how he has applied revisionism to his career, never so much as hinting that The Office and Extras were collaborative efforts.

The thing Richard said about the disabled comic not getting any tweets calling her a mong says it all really, the people who think Ricky Gervais is "redefining" it wouldnt ever say it around a disabled person because they know exactly what it means. A bunch of hypocrites defending something that wasnt even funny on the crudest level.

There's only really one term anyone should have used to describe them, and that's their name.

Not that I hate gervais, i like a lot of his standup, extras was awesome - but it shit me straight away when i saw and heard about this (admittedly ages ago) cos it was uncomfortably clear what he was doing straight away. and that people were servicing his need by taking sides in the argument.

I was just here to hear him slag off Ricky Gervais (i'am a fan of his work, even though I find it funny when people slag him off). I had no fucking idea they were going for Morrissey...what the fuck has Morrissey done?! Leave Morrissey alone you bastards.

A very bright guy with his heart in the right place though.

but in terms of downloads, they really pushed it into the mainstream from a relatively early point.

6:58 what does richard say?

everyone involved thinks they are WAY more important then they truly are.

But Gervais is an adult. Not a kid at a local school

What’s he on about?

its because I dont think it means a disabled person, when ricky gervais says "mongs meaning has changed", there is a group over 30 who seem to disagree, and a lot of people under 30 who believe that it has

Indeed. Also, isn't it funny how the tabloid's fury at Gervais using the word seemed to coincide with the anti-Gervais phase where he was still getting stick from hosting the Golden Globes despite the fact Gervais has used the word in question repeatedly on his Podcasts, Stand-up shows and his Blog for years before?

Richard looks so young in that picture.

@padraic2001eire He did a bit about a play he wrote when he was 15 for GCSE's and I've never seen anything like it on stage, the most naturally funny stand up i've seen. Very, very clever and really funny, tell me if he does it, also one of the stories he did at the end was genius. Pure genius.

The Adam Carolla Show took that Guinness World Record away from them in the middle of last year. Even before that being the first podcast supported by a mainstream media group just means they had contacts and big enough names to push it. As for The Office changing a lot of things in terms of sitcom style and writing, all I saw was failing to meet the standards good sitcoms like Father Ted, Black Books, Spaced. Operation Good Guys and others did the mockumentary thing years before The Office.

I love Richard (not because I’m called Richard) Herring.

I like both comedians. It's good he didn't actually slag off Gervais ... it's a bad sign for a comedian to start slagging off other comedians (in a non-joke way of course). Usually comedians are light-hearted enough not to use their fame to take pot-shots at people they don't like.

It may not have followed the same arc exactly but that is because 'idiot' predates medical classification of mental illness, not only that but the word still refers disapragingly to those of sub-par unteligence or retardation just without the badge of medical legitimacy. As soon as doctors began classification of mental illness 'idiot' became a part of their lexicon, simply because it was not specifically orignaly terminological doesn't mean it's long association with mental illness dissapears.

Yes. All of that is definitely true. The media, as always, have a lot to answer for. I was arguing against the idea of the word being OK to use, but in this instance I don't think Gervais whipped up the majority of the controversy.

Moustaches shouldn't be able to cause offence. It's just that certain ideals have been attached to them. Words are commonly used to cause offence.

I love Ricky Gervais' work. I find his stuff really funny. But he was wrong on this and should have realised and apologised, instead he reacted like a hurt child and tried to justify his actions.

is it just me, but whois richard herring ?

However what we can agree on also is that - in context - any word can be used e.g to satirise prejudice, quoting someone, etc However Gervais' use of the word wasn't for satirical purposes. It was also ironic how TV show 'The Wright Stuff' - a show that was used in a montage of sensationalism in the Extras episode involving a child with Downs Syndrome in order to satirise how a story is taken out of context or exaggerated - reported on 'mong-gate' using the hyperbolic accusations by the tabloids

And Richard Herring Agrees with that point entirely. Richard Herring was just politely saying what Gervais was doing was a) A bit unfunny and b) Poking fun at the wrong targets in Herring's opinion. He was providing a critique on Gervais, as free speech allows you.

I don’t support Ricky Gervais at all, he’s a biggot and I’m not disagreeing with the point Richard Herring is trying to get across, however this video has made me decide that I don’t support Richard Herring anymore, because he’s literally said the n word in this video, if he publicly apologises then I’ll support him again, but there was no need for him to say all of these slurs

Can't believe he made fun of britains beloved jimmy saville!

started that movement? if your referring to podcasting they were fairly late in catching that boat

I think a "who cares" is in place here ?

I had a lovely aunt with downs syndrome, I hate it when I see people using mong, and I've been a horrible bastard at times, but I've never been offensive to disabled people.😥

Life imitates art imitates life ad infinitum.

The refuge of the mediocre middle class comedian, lofty discussions on whether comedians who are superior to you should use certain words

just middle clash sheltered people that find this offensive, go to your local school and listen to the language being used by the kids, "mong" is the least offensive -

Ricky Gervais is the Noel Gallagher of comedy. He is well past his best, arrogant, bereft of any new ideas and has a fan base of thick fans. Invention of Lying: bad reviews. Science stand up: awful reviews. Life's Too Short: Dreadful reviews. Derek: mixed reviews. I say his time is up, don't you?

Inbred and Mongrel are polar opposites. Mongrels are healthy. Inbreds are not. This is merely pedantry, I ain't got beef, bruv.

totally agree. I really enjoy the Gervais podcasts because he makes a good straight man to Pilkington's weird man. But I never found Extras or Life's Too Short (The Office I kinda liked, although there was only one joke - David Brent is annoying). There's nothing wrong with being un-PC in comedy but if you're going to be un-PC you've got to do it with some kind of wit to make some kind of point. Unlike, say Frankie Boyle and latterly (but not formerly) Gervais who use just to be mean-spirited

then why do we use words like "idiot" or "mad" - arent they just as bad, or does a certain amount of time have to pass before they become acceptable

I'm a fan of both comedians and I hate 99% of this comments section

I'm a fan of Stewart Lee, Richard Herring and Ricky Gervais and so it was interesting when there was a conflict between all of them. When Gervais first started using the word 'mong' (when he first started his blog back in 2007/8, I genuinely didn't know what the derivation of that word was. I assumed the word was a made-up, playful gibberish word like 'twonk' or 'gimp' (My opinion that this was always his intention is supported by the fact that he now has replaced it with those gibberish words). He continued to use it, and explain its context throughout his blog, stand-up shows, podcasts and Twitter for years until it surfaced as a story suddenly. It was frustrating that intelligent people such as Lee and Herring both bought into the media storm and believed the word 'mong' to be used by Gervais as an anti-disabled comment, that Gervais' photos of pulling stupid faces was in any way related to his use of the word 'mong' and that the news that Gervais was creating a show called 'Derek' at the time would be, they thought, be about mocking people with Downs Syndrome. These were all violently wrong, and no apology has come from either of them. Gervais even apologised and stopped using 'mong' because, he realised, some still felt that the word hadn't evolved for its original meaning. From Lee and Herring: nothing. Even though it was obvious to all except to the angry mob, Gervais explained the photos were unrelated in a Radio 4 interview, the artificial nature of the controversy is evident by the fact Gervais has always used it years before, and the show 'Derek' happened to be about a non-disabled, strange but very sweet guy.

go to the pub on any night of the week and listen to what people are saying, mong is like the least offensive? happy now,

I support Ricky Gervais being taken off tv because I find him just about as funny as slamming my head repeatedly in a car door. If there is actually a more valid reason for it, as this is, well more power to it.

If you yourself don't like Gervais' work that is fine and I respect that. However, judging the quality of someone's work based purely on the opinions of reviewers is stupid. Since when do they have the final word on what is "good" and what isn't?

There word is still in usage in the medical profession: 'Idiot Savant' fro example. The point I'm trying to make is that the transition of 'idiot' from terminology to vernacular is exactly the same 'mong' just not as recent. What have doctors (quite rightly) being discouraged from calling people fat got to do with it? Are you trying to suggest that medical professionals should take the piss out of their patients' ailments? "Alright fatso, nice Kidney stones!"

@padraic2001eire Hey glad you enjoyed it! Yep the gcse part was unusual but the perfect showcase for his talent. So do you think he beats Herring/Gervais? I certainly do. It was both clever and incredibly funny. Herring is very intelligent but suffers from not being naturally funny and Gervais writes with Merchant so instantly comparisons are made and I feel (stand up) Merchant has the beating of him. The self depreciating humour he has down to a tee.

But if the other 50% agree that I got punched then my view that I did get punched is not outdated as enough people share it, so that it remains relevant. I see your point, language progresses and evolves as years go by. Maybe in 10 years time the word 'mong' will no longer mean someone with 'Down Syndrome', but presently it does and in my experience as a working class 19 year old male thew majority of people I have come across realise that.

Well no. It's not offensive to you if you're not personally effected by disability. Or have this wonderful thing called empathy.

no. Its from the collins herring podcast

How? He seems quite fair in this.

No worries, least you know to quit whilst you aren't too far behind.

I enjoyed this

Gervais shouldn't have used such a contentious word for something as unimportant as a way of saying 'moronic friend'. Having said that, the sensationalism surrounding 'mong-gate' more and more resembled the sequence in 'Extras' where the actual controversy is exaggerated repeatedly. Gervais posting photos of himself pulling a stupid face were completely unrelated to the media's interpretation of Gervais's use of the word 'mong'. Shame on the media and Herring and Lee for linking to two together.

Words matter

In the 1970's I had a mate who had 3 brothers, they were forever calling eachother 'Mong' . If you are of the same age (ie born in 1968) You cannot claim that you do not know what 'mong' means, or that it comes from mongoloid. ie Downs syndrome. Gervais wanted the shock factor of being able to say 'mong'! but thought he had a get-out clause, by either saying 'it had changed its meaning' or that 'I didn't know what it meant'. Ooooh! believe it. He knew what it meant alright! And Ricky Gervais is not as edgy as he would have you believe, he just understands the power of shock!

Ricky Gervais isn't as clever as he thinks he is. In the end he gets laughs about disabled people - and claims he's playing with politically correct faux pas. That said, he can be wickedly funny - but let's not pretend he's some kind of comedy genius. He's basically having his cake and eating it - taking the piss out of 'mongs' with a Cheshire Cat grin - that says 'only being ironic'.

What's the name of the interviewer? He has a very characteristic voice and I can picture him in my head, but can't think for the life of me what he's called.

Well said ♡

thats Andrew collins

That's not really a defence though is it? If someone punches me should I not be offended or take issue with it as it's a lot less violent than being shot at?

Is it not Mark Lawson?

I particularly liked the argument "Ricky Gervais broke America therefore he wins". Based on a similar rationale, I'm going to set up a religion that worships Barabbas.

My reply is simple : These are not funny podcast's. End off I'm not been nast or rude, its just that Mr herring's podcasts are not funny. ( IMO ) that is all. If he wants to be REALLY funny, take a page out of RG or Don Rickles or George Carlin. Now that is funny.

To be honest I think Ricky Gervais does all he can to 'normalise' the word and take it out of the realm of actual nasty people. Middle class liberals have such a complex over words. Of course words said in 'phrase; can be cruel, hurtful and ugly. But its also down to posturer and purpose. I'm sure these two are both good guys but to be so shit scared of using words can make one a little patronising. Just be nice & fair to people and if one slips up because of your up bringing, peer group, culture or ignorance just learn from it & don't beat yourself up about it.

Schadenfreude. It brings us pleasure to witness others unfortunate lives. Live aid watching African babies covered with flies, laughing at midgets boxing, natural disasters on the news, stopping to see a road traffic accident or watching footage of the disabled. My favourite are a series on KZfaq called retarded policemen or something similar, where a downs actor plays a cop, it’s hilarious. There’s no malice involved, it’s simply funny.

I prefer him. Stew has to ration out his material so thin. Rich is much more spontaneous and better at improvising. I think some of Stew's routines are better than any of Rich's.