LS are pretty cheap too

I'm a fan of the LS stuff but I also have sbc 350 and 400. There both cheap and easy to work on and can make good power.

Dollar for dollar it's still hard to beat it for power produced on a build. Junkyard engines don't count, if building from scratch the sbc is still king of cheap reliable power. Most lose sight of that. When the junk supplies dry up the ls won't be so cheap to get and build.

@@b.c4066 I agree and while the LS prices are climbing the sbc prices are dropping and availability going up. Quick search on marketplace I can find 20sbc for cheap within 40miles.

@@BDauto86 agreed on all points. I picked up an Olds 455 with an engle cam and headers and 442 cast iron intake from a kid who wanted an LS--paid $150 for it dissassembled. the LS shadow is spreading to other engines :) I also picked up a Victor intake for the Gen One at a tag sale for $10--no way i'm finding a used LS carb intake anywhere for less than three digits.

Dang right!

What I love about modern V8's is they basically sold souped up performance engines with tiny cams in them instead of the choked down V8's of the past.

@@andrewlanger2168 pretty much !

You ls swapp my 86 monte

@@swa99surffin sell it if your too lazy

@@hawkdsl ha im not i was being sarcastic an i dont know how to install a engine

Agree, the majority of the power difference is in valve angle and cam.

Are you guys aware World Products offers a traditional SBC block, but with an LS, 4 head bolt deck, which allows the SBC block to run LS heads.

you're pretty close. He also forgot to mention the cam shaft lift for sbc was .585 while the LS was over .600. That makes a huge difference. Give the SBC a .600+ camshaft and watch how close the numbers are.

i have a large journal 350 and a 400 but one problem the 400 is in a 79 short box 4x4 100% factory truck full option with only 35,000 miles on it in mint condition but then again i have a few 450 hp 454 sitting with low miles

I'm interested in your combo can you give me a few more details. I run a 385 stroker on my airboat but was thinking of building a 418 stroker

@@kregbelcastro2749 u really think i would part out a low mile 79 4x4 that is in mint condition u can buy the whole thing for about 35,000 then i will sell it just because i got it free i will not let it go cheap but u can get 450 hp 454 with 4 inch stroke out of motor homes and they come with a 02xx trans good to 800 hp i got 4 setups sitting right now

@@jeffrey4547 sorry the message I sent was for Chris H I wanted to know more about his 383 that made 675hp Jeffery I already have a 514hp 383 so i don't need your truck

Yes I would like to see a carb and single plane intake on the LS

Excellent comment.

I think he's trying to run the best available intake in both cases, rather than limiting one to the ability of the other. If you wanted apples to apples, you'd limit the SBC to running the same valve sizes the LS has. That would be BS too. I think valve angle is likely a lot of it.

I think the valve angle was a big part, could have even done the 18 degree head to make it a little closer but, I think EFI could have also played a part in that those numbers also.

@@dougj.8288 when Richard runs apples to apples carb vs EFI, carb almost always makes a bit more power. I think it's more the intake than the EFI, but you can't run that style intake with a carb.

@@dougj.8288 yes, despite the equal flow the 23degree head is just kinda wonky. The valves arent centered in the bore and the pushrod pinch changes the cross section not to mention the gen1s 5th head bolt between the ports. You can make power despite these things but if the port dances around bolts and pushrods what cross section changes have to happen to make it happen and how does that change the acoustics of the port, static flow is one thing but an intake is a dynamic system with sound waves and intermittent flow.

I know the carb usually makes more peak power but it wouldn’t have been an issue to slap Holley EFI on that intake or swap the intake on the LS and run the same carb on both.

The LS also can take a beating. But it's arguably cheaper actually. As there's many more of them on circulation.

Yeah, but who wants to deal with that damn computer and all those wires

@@clydebethatway7485 You can easily put a carb on an LS

Carb will make more power then fuel injection and they are getting plenty of spark with distributor. The ls flows more air is all.

@@Thumper68 naw I think he got a point fuel injection brings instant power that carb gonna dump gas and the motor gone catch up

@@bizzybeast6522 it wasn’t really a suggestion I know I’m correct the ls heads flow a lot more air that’s why it makes more power

@Thumper I definitely think it's the fuel injection and coil packs! But also believe the heads on the ls are better

@@johnkrucar2119 it's the cams you can't compare power with different lift on the cams obviously the cam with more lift will make more power.

Absolutely! What I mention above needs to be addressed as well. Same ring pack widths, piston, and rod weights at least as close as possible with like materials. No titanium rods and as similar designed heads as possible. 1 CNC'd, ALL CNC'd. The 427LS and the 427 SBC gen 1 would be the most interesting based on same bore and stroke if internals are similar and the style of induction is at least similar, IMHO.

Years ago I think it was car craft did 408 sm blk vs 408 BB. LS where not around yet . The bb stomped the small block and they where actually very similar builds .

I think I remember the CarCraft article the BBC made so much lo-end torque that the SBC PUT UP THE WHITE FLAG TO SURRENDER LOL!!!!

@Broke Donkey Garage, Hot rod magazine also ran that same test with a 408 big block vs 408 small block back in 98. the LS had only been out about 2 years. it was called Rodent Rumble. www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-9808-chevrolet-engine-block-challenge/ they even used "the same" cam. it was a Comp Extreme Energy 284, the lobe profiles and LSA are identical on both the big block version and the small block version of the XE284. They tested them at the dyno and the drag strip in the same second gen Camaro. The Big Block won both hands down. I am pretty sure the BBC would beat the LS as well in the same if the test was conducted today with the LS included. to quote Steve Brule "Nothing Beats and LS... Except a Big Block Chevy"

@@shadvan9494 that was the one I meant . Thanks for the reply .

Yep. Or put a good EFI system on the SBC and see how it does.

Fuel injection is great for driveability. Doesnt necessarily produce more powerthan a carb.

@@pyrorye-80 Direct injection does. Your "carb looking" EFI's, no, they don't. You're right.

@@pyrorye-80 you can tune better and that can be worth 30 hp difference

I would like to see the numbers with a carb on the ls , I think they would be higher

Yep, it's the heads. Those LS heads are great performers.

yeah 18 degree brodix heads would have probably been over 550+ even an AFR 195 comp probably cost the same as those trick flow cathedral ports and those world have probably made 550.

also look at this combo. smaller ports and smaller hydro roller cam but its an AFR with an air gap intake made 557HP kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nbuJrcSf06icmoE.html

@@KingJT80 better yet, 15 degree profiler air strike heads! And I guarantee you that the gen 1 out performs the Ls! Not that I'm knocking an Ls by no means, it's a proven excellent platform for sure! But for ease of install and operation, you simply cannot beat the gen 1 sbc!

@@docsmallblock6584 yeah no it's great stock as proven by this video made at least 40+ hpmover the vortex 350 vs a 5.3 truck engine with a truck intake I just tell people if you're not gonna turbo it just use a 383 if you already have the header etc

That would be a big difference

That is a good question, but I suspect it's getting close to even.

Sbc is a bigger bang for the buck, 383 is $800 for sbc compare to 2k ls stroker.

@@frankdatank7751 Yep. I found it to be $2400 for the LS 383 rotating assembly. Must be the reason everyone slaps a turbo on them.

The ls would likely be cheaper.

Ls has more advantages than just power. The block design is way stronger. Also the seal and gasket designs are more reliable so you don't have oil leaks.

Ported heads on the SBC would have closed the gap even more.

@@moabman6803 the ls isnt everyones taste of engine

​@@moabman6803 🧢 sbc has a stronger block

@@Texasmule LS has 6 bolt mains. Sbc block is not stronger.

Uhhhh, no lol

Exactly what I was thinking too! Put a single plain and carb on the LS or put say a Holley sniper Efi on them both and I think the gap might be closer between them.

I've heard of port velocity and flow. What are you referring to as far as port energy?

@@frankrizzo2724 as I understand it; it has to do with flow and velocity and the length of the port. If you have a smaller cross section area at a certain length that flows equally to a larger cross section port of the same area you see the velocity higher. What is difficult to measure is how the pulsing or pressure waves affect things. David Vizard has a way of explaining it. Check out power tech 10 videos. I am pretty sure he would do a better job of explaining it than I can.

@@jamesandannschmitt6835 I've read alot of visard's stuff. Really like the way he always uses a tight LSA on his cams. I'll have to check that out. Thanks.

@@stewarth8390 a carb on a LS engine makes more power then EFI

Agree!

Yeah, somewhere back in my deep prehistoric memory, volumetric efficiency comes to mind. Air flow, swept area, how fast the cylinders are filled and evacuated, stuff like that. I never dove too deep into this, but I remember it coming up.

I think even in an apples to apples comparison, the LS has better VE. I love the old SBC, but the LS beats it every time

😱

Well you're wrong about the 4" stroke for low end torque. Long stroke for torque is a myth people just can't get over; too lazy to think it through or something...

@@causeimbatmaaan that's correct, stroke is only one part of the equation but the things that affect torque much more are cam timing cylinder heads and compression

also IIRC an LS has 1.7 rockers from the factory.......most of the difference probobly comes down to valve angle and the port designs inherent to each design.

It would have gains down low of course

I am about to build a 383 and the intake I’ve chosen is an air gap intake with a Holley Sniper everything from in tank fuel pump to the ignition system. 1.6:1 roller rockers and I am probably going to ditch the hyd cam and go with a roller. Can’t wait…

Afr sells good heads for sbc I have one on my 355. And it’s awesome. Factory comes Cnc ported. With a mild cam you’ll definitely wake up that sbc.

My thoughts also on the advantages of the flat 13.5°. The whole head was a clean sheet and every little detail counts. Ol reliable sbc heads designed back in early 50's.

OH MAN I WOULD LOVE TO SEE A 383 SBC WITH TRICK FLOW 18 DEGREE HEADS , 1,6 ROCKERS , A 2 INCH CARB SPACER , SHE BE A 100 HORSEPOWER MORE THAN THAT LS !

A 383 is basically a 6.0 do at 383 SBC vs a camed 6.0 lq9

6.0 is 366 far from 383

@@horsefly1020 377 would be a much better comparison for valve clearance and flow.

Ya agree. VE / scavenging are going to be way better on the LS. He didn't mention ignition timing, but I am guessing the LS needed a lot less total timing to hit those numbers too.

I agree..valve angle..and also the Fast long tube INTAKE MANUFOLD..

LS HAS A LITTLE BIGGER CAM YES, BUT IM PRETTY SURE ITS ALSO GOT ATLEAST 1.6 ROCKERS TOO , THAT MAKES THE LS LIFT QUITE A BIT BIGGER ! SBC TORQUE IS LOW BECAUSE INTAKE RUNNERS ARE TOO BIG ! EVEN AFR 195'S WOULD MAKE ATLEAST THE SAME POWER AND 50 MORE TORQUE

Thats what I was hoping for, but, I guess I will have to take what I can get :/

That and a raised cam tunnel block. With a 55mm cam core I agree it's not a fair comparison. Build both to comparable bore stroke cam design benefits and a good sheet metal mpfi for the sbc power difference would be drastically reduced.

@@b.c4066 but now you're spending more money to keep up with LS that came out of the junk yard. LS is just a better stock platform to build from.

@@gnarkiller the ls is a great platform the new lt looks to be a even better platform. With that being said the old gen 1&2 sbc are really good as well and can make good power

@@gnarkiller absolutely, but to compare them in their current states of tune is akin to comparing a 265 Windsor to a 408 dart block Windsor with high ports. Not subtle differences, huge difference in just about every aspect of each engine bro. That's all I was thinking when I posted my thoughts.

@@b.c4066 not disagreeing, just adding: the "ls" is a sbc with most of the improvements people have made over the decades built in. Without the small block there would never have been ls. Love how the arrogant engineers said they designed a brand new engine from scratch.

706 heads are the reason...

A good ported head like an AFR might have helped to close the gap. An AFR 195 has same flow below .500 lift and better flow above .500 vs the Dragon Slayer and would have kept better air velocity. I have AFR 180cc's on this engine in my pic and they outflow pretty much all as-cast 195's.

How did you get 20+ mpg with your truck ? My '03 5.3 half ton gets 13....15 is the most I've ever seen from it... And of course that's with an overdrive transmission. I did get 20+ from my 68 327 with no over drive in a 69 elcamino and a 69 Chevelle.

@@gearyheidinewaccount3237 Well for one the truck weighs 3200 lbs. I had an el camino also with a 454 and 6 speed and if I was really careful I could get close to 20 on the freeway. Hell... I don't know what is wrong or was wrong with you pickup but my 05 Tahoe NEVER got less than 16 and I got 21 on a trip both there and back 700 miles and it weighs 4800 lbs. My C10 is running right at 1800 rpm at just under 70 mph My sons 22 half ton weighs 600 lbs more than my C10

A Buick Olds Pontiac 455 shootout would be sweet

@@Jfrgarage took the words right out of my mouth. *Insert meatloaf here"

Bump for BOP shootout!

It’s strange just how much you can change the characteristics of a small block Chevy from high revving 327s to torque monster 383s. A Buick motor will always act like a Buick motor but a small block Chevy possesses many faces. It’s a real testament to the small block and how it’s still so valued after all these years.

Theres still a lot of people running a small block chevy beating the ls platform

I would like to see an 18 or 15 degree SBC vs the ls.

Your rpm guage does not remind you about the size of the crank. Lol. There are things you are forgetting about. Long stroke vs short stroke.

You would also need different position sensors

If you put a .585 lift cam in the ls to match the sbc the power out puts would be almost identical

way smaller cam in the LS you mean...

LOTS OF GUYS ONLY LOOK AT LIFT!

@@richardholdener1727 realistically the cam in the ls is more “heavy hitting”. 625 lift on a what was it 230something intake lobe profile is WAY sharper of a lobe than the .585 at like 242 on the SBC. From my months and months of observation of builds and cams. Torque comes from port velocity more than anything. That’s the same reason why those hogged out POS eBay heads that are like a 235cc intake runner don’t make good power. Simply being it lacks the VELOCITY. On a boosted build/super high revving engine or bigger than 400cube/4”bore they would work fine. This is also a small part of many reasons why big cams make less low end power than small cams. Now if you could get the big lift out of the big cam on the same lobe as the small cam you’d make more low end torque than the smaller cam, more peak, and be able to carry the power a little further out. the reason you don’t see this pretty much ever is the lifters and valve train. Say you put a .630 lift on a 222 duration lobe, lol that lifter is going to be like a bicyclist hitting a Boulder in the road vs a going over a speedbump. There’s much more than lift and duration in cams, different lobe types, valve events, and ramp rates greatly effect how a cam performs and also how much abuse it will put on your valve train. This video to me shows you this, the bigger lift and smaller lobe helps snap the valve open further and also faster as it has a much faster ramp rate(PORT VELOCITY)and the nice 220 intake runner on the trick flow isn’t too big for the displacement and works nicely to keep port velocity up in mid range then at higher rpm where engines start to run out of breath the bigger lift helps feed the engine a little more than holding the valve open a little bit longer but really the high end is very likely to be from that fast 102. I have a heads, cam build and I’m pulling vacuum on an ls6 intake at around 5k and up. The heads and fast are what’s making that ls shine above 5500rpm.

I would like to see exact same cams and exact same rocker ratios with only difference being the degrees of the heads. Same carb, same style intake.

@@jeffcraven2437 imo one of the biggest perks of the less valve degrees is ability to run bigger lifts/durations without PTV issues. Don’t hold me on it, but also helps utilize the sweep styled rocker arms at higher lifts which IMO are leaps and bounds better than a roller style when it comes to valvetrain stability. The only ones I would recommend on an LS are the texas speed ones. They are the only ones I know of that don’t weigh a ton. Those heavy rollers just make under your valve cover look pretty and just add to chances of valve float.

Or a tunnel ram on the SBC which wouldn't give up tq and add Hp

Speedmaster on the Small block when your going up against an LS. Doesn't seem fair. He should run them both with same manifold and carb. Maybe both with Holley Hi-Ram Dual Quad

How are you going to run an LS intake on the SBC?