Do Vintage Guitar Speakers REALLY Sound Better?
Рет қаралды 130,548
4 жыл бұрынDoes speaker type matter? In this episode we test whether speakers of different types and from different eras actually make a huge difference. Rhett Shull, Dave Onorato and myself compare a NEW Celestion Vintage 30 12" Guitar Speaker vs VINTAGE 70's Celestion G12H 12" Guitar Speaker inside the same Orange 4x12 Cabinet. Using a 1972 Orange Overdrive OR 120 we recorded the V30's then swapped them out for Vintage G12 H's. The results will surprise you! Ley me know your thoughts.
Rhett Shull - / rshull07
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@ronnieDshman18 4 жыл бұрын
I actually think that Rick’s part sounds better with the newer speakers but Rhett and Dave need the older ones for sure
@jkbaca41 4 жыл бұрын
I was thinking the same thing while listening to the back to back section.
@joelspaulding5964 4 жыл бұрын
Can only agree with this. Actually, will emphatically agree😉
@markfernandes9627 4 жыл бұрын
Even I was thinking the same
@ianwillett4009 4 жыл бұрын
I agree too!
@gtrplyr67 4 жыл бұрын
I thought the opposite. I liked Rick with the older and Rhett and Dave with the newer ones.
@davidpggarrett 4 жыл бұрын
If only my smartphone had Vintage 30s, then I'd be able to tell the difference!
@patthomas9547 4 жыл бұрын
Lol
@qua7771 3 жыл бұрын
They do have a headphone jack.
@fusermonkey 3 жыл бұрын
Yup. Were all hearing what these amps and guitars sound like through Logitech computer speakers really ;)
@launder0 4 жыл бұрын
Easy way to make it WAY more controlled: record a loop (on any looper pedal, like a ditto or something) and play it for both speakers (or amps, or whatever you're trying). This is the best way to test anything that comes after the pickups. Also: blind test. Record both and then make the other guys listen to it blindly (if they can't see your face when choosing, even better). Make it blind for us for some time too!
@qua7771 3 жыл бұрын
There's an entire recording studio. I couldn't figure out why they played twice.
@jscan 3 жыл бұрын
Exactly what I was thinking! Especially when Rick said "scientific" .. This would have allowed a direct A/B as well, switching back and forth between tracks.
@Noah-gq7pq Жыл бұрын
that makes sense fernando,,then its the x-act same input same guitar same player
@ahackbutitry 4 жыл бұрын
honestly don't think one sounds better than the other. Just different.
@andyrichardson9039 4 жыл бұрын
This, basically. If you'd have told me that the second set of speakers were new-production G12H 30s, I'd have gone 'yep, fair enough, bit different to V30s' and that would have been it. For most of what I play, I could use either quite happily.
@kylegrossi8175 4 жыл бұрын
I agree. If i ended up with a tone like either of those i would be happy.
@ivanfelipechavez2693 4 жыл бұрын
Yep
@rowbags3017 4 жыл бұрын
I listened "blind" while doing paperwork and, barring one section of Rick's playing, I found I'd preferred the '70s set-up when I went back and saw the on-screen captions. It's just a more "open and fuller" sound that, for me, works better on most of the samples here. Purely subjective, of course, and there's no "right or wrong" - and, as Rick said, he'd have sculpted anything we've heard here before it got anywhere near going into a finished mix.
@remco2777 4 жыл бұрын
I like the Vintage 30s over the G12H. More crisp and the definition is much better and more together sounding. (I listened to these over studio monitors)
@johngrant5749 4 жыл бұрын
VIDS2013 likewise.
@CurtHowland 4 жыл бұрын
"More crisp" is a good way to put it.
@VBshredder 4 жыл бұрын
I agree, although the difference is not as much as I expected. The V30's just have that cut and bark that cuts through the mix live like a knife.
@N2F1 4 жыл бұрын
Me too. I thought the V30’s sounded better with all three guitars and players. To me the G12H’s sounded just a bit buzzy in the high end. I could see those getting irritating sounding very easily.
@jbognap 4 жыл бұрын
To me the V30s sounded controlled and focused. The G12Hs sounded more hairy and open.
@scottreynolds6317 4 жыл бұрын
I do like the G12 H’s a little better due to the mid-range coming through a bit better. As usual, Dave is right.
@charlesbranch4120 4 жыл бұрын
Probably why Rick and Rhett call on Dave so often... We know who has the "mad skills"... but no youtube channel.
@davidjonorato3554 4 жыл бұрын
Hahahahaha Thanks!!!
@briandwyer7339 4 жыл бұрын
Good to see all you guys together again! Really enjoy the content, expertise, and seeing the love of music you guys share. Keep up the great work!
@seattlesauce 4 жыл бұрын
Rather evident (and impressive) the thought that went into designing these speakers to meet the needs of each time. To me anyway the vintage 30's sound like they were designed when guitar was the star of the show. Current speakers sound like designed to take a more supportive role and to fill those frequencies (narrower range overall when including the low end) and would sit better in the mix accordingly.
@GoldenGateNum9 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah just what I was thinking, makes a lot of sense as I was wondering why they sounded so different.
@gerryjamesedwards1227 4 жыл бұрын
The black-backs do sound better to my ears. The sound is more cohesive without the scoop.
@ThrowinRowan 4 жыл бұрын
They probably shouldn’t have used orange since they’re one of the only amp companies that just keeps getting better
@JonNewquist 4 жыл бұрын
Especially with Rick's chords.
@WildBillQRO 4 жыл бұрын
The common folk will never know the difference , they both sound good to me , cheers from Canada
@EpicStuffMan1000 4 жыл бұрын
@@TrashcanGarage Too right. Old silvertone amps were the equivalent of those monoprice amps nowadays, and people loved them for sounding weird and less pristine than Fenders of their time. Hell, Fender were always looking to save money. It's entirely subjective. Personally I prefer playing V30s, but those G12Hs sound great.
@alanfunt4013 4 жыл бұрын
"Common folk". From the lips of a guitarist? LMFAO!
@flugelbinder80 4 жыл бұрын
This right here is why I fitted vintage blackbacks in my Marshall cab.
@natlparkdude 4 жыл бұрын
I much prefer the vintage speakers. The modern ones sound too harsh and biting, for lack of better words. P.S. Love the banter and these "team" videos!
@void4256 4 жыл бұрын
Warmer with more depth on the vintage sound it stills rules.
@fredfirth3834 4 жыл бұрын
I definitely agree. The new speakers had a little too much high end for me.
@Dimythios 4 жыл бұрын
I agree.
@jonathanblackwell42 4 жыл бұрын
To make the experiment apples-to-apples, record into a looper so you always get the exact same input.
@gangofgreenhorns2672 4 жыл бұрын
I was wondering why they didn't pump the same audio through both.
@abrackas1 4 жыл бұрын
Add try vintage vs new of the same speaker kind. V30s vs GB or whatever, of course there will be a difference.
@hairychris444 4 жыл бұрын
@@abrackas1 Yeah, my thoughts. These speakers are voiced differently anyway...
@leiferickson3183 4 жыл бұрын
Yeah, G12H Heritage instead of a vintage 30 which is a modern speaker that is not a copy of any older speaker. But really I think they were going for comparing what Orange had back in the day vs what they have now.
@jscan 3 жыл бұрын
Indeed, that would have been the real test, along with perhaps some non-saturated licks/chords?
@gmf2112 4 жыл бұрын
I'm a classic rocker, so for me the old speakers sounded tighter, and a little clearer than the new. Thanks for the video guys...it was cool to hear those speakers back to back like that.
@jambothruster 4 жыл бұрын
This is right up my alley! I’ve got a newer Orange cab with vintage 30’s, a 70’s Marshall 4x12 with Black Backs and for years my main amp was a mid 70s Orange Overdrive 120. Knowing first hand what these combinations sound like, I actually expected a LOT more of a difference in your recording! The difference is obvious, but I just expected more. My experience is that vintage 30s work great with modern amps, BUT when paired with a vintage (or even vintage type) amp... nothing beats the black backs.
@travisfigg8337 4 жыл бұрын
I feel like this is a matter of context. Different sounds for different songs.
@adamlewis5765 4 жыл бұрын
This is the correct answer.
@droobie_ 4 жыл бұрын
I’m convinced Dave is just Rhett from the future
@davidjonorato3554 4 жыл бұрын
I could very well be...🤣
@l-wook 4 жыл бұрын
That’s pretty darn funny
@ErvinandMFantasyFootball 3 жыл бұрын
LMFAOOO
@willstan2670 4 жыл бұрын
First, thanks for all of your efforts in putting this test together. I really enjoyed participating in this exercise. Second, my personal preference is for the G20 vs the Vintage 30s. The reason for my preference is that I am the same age you are Rick and the G20s is the sound that remember growing up with in in the 70s. I thought they both sounded good and was skeptical that I would be able to tell a difference, but was surprised that my preference was consistent across all of the listening tests. Thanks again for putting this test together. I enjoyed being a part of this test.
@thedondeluxe6941 4 жыл бұрын
That Les Paul DeLuxe sound freakin' GLORIOUS.
@buzzbabyjesus 4 жыл бұрын
I have a 76 Deluxe, all original, and it's the best rhythm guitar in the world. I use a Standard for leads.
@RisikoAO 4 жыл бұрын
Vintage 30's are more clear and have more definition, G12h more punch but also muddier. I really prefer V30s.
@j.cameronbrett2660 4 жыл бұрын
Only honest opinion on here
@zackhagains3739 4 жыл бұрын
I completely agree. I preferred the V30s as well.
@richclips 4 жыл бұрын
I also preferred the V30s overall, especially for Ricks part, they are much cleaner and I didn't feel that the originals offered more mid, they simply don't seem to have the benefit of the cleaner more detailed V30s
@EphemeralTao 4 жыл бұрын
Got that same impression, the G12H were muddier in the mids and highs; they'd be better as bass speakers, while I'd prefer the V30s for lead instruments
@Ron4885 4 жыл бұрын
@@zackhagains3739 Me too. The G12h sound like they're a recently constructed ruin. The V30s like finding a real dinosaur fossil. I know that's a weird analogy but hey.... :) I'll go with the *real* bones.
@Warbizzle 4 жыл бұрын
The vintage speakers have a much dirtier sound. I do like them more.
@suspicionofdeceit 4 жыл бұрын
w b They do,seem to have more break up.
@wraieghaeien 4 жыл бұрын
I was going to say, the modern speakers sounded cleaner to me. If that is good or bad, that's your bag.
@RogerThat902 4 жыл бұрын
Agreed, but that's why I personally like them less. :)
@amerixantrash3620 4 жыл бұрын
Totally agree. Would love to hear some Volbeat put through those!
@richardhighsmith 4 жыл бұрын
I liked the Vintage 30s because they weren’t breaking up as much in the higher frequencies.
@sirsuse 4 жыл бұрын
Vintage 30's all day long. Sounded crisper to my ears.
@Oborowatabinostk 3 жыл бұрын
Same, the Gs sounded muddy to me
@incubrian 3 жыл бұрын
So, Vintage 60s?
@jghillstudio1857 4 жыл бұрын
Great insight and fun to watch you guys carry on...
@jamesreniche9692 4 жыл бұрын
Did this really answer the question "Are Vintage speakers really better?". It certainly demonstrates that different types of speakers effect tone (was that really in question?), but to answer the original question shouldn't the vintage G12H have been compared to a new G12H?
@robgraham5016 4 жыл бұрын
That's a good point.
@EverHappyDude 4 жыл бұрын
This.
@abrackas1 4 жыл бұрын
Exactly what I was saying with my comments
@TheChadPad 4 жыл бұрын
It did. The answer is, they can be. Also, that question is really hard to answer, because rarely are speakers made the same way they used to be
@soundboy57 4 жыл бұрын
Indeed...
@soejrd24978 4 жыл бұрын
That was a fun podcast you did with Christopher Ryan
@jud62 4 жыл бұрын
The vintage speakers sound surprisingly warmer to me. Amazing!
@BadCat1990 4 жыл бұрын
It's weird to hear real amps, cabs and mics. It really does sound different than the digital stuff. I love it. Both of the speakers sound great to me.
@RC32Smiths01 4 жыл бұрын
You guys always make these sound the best and high quality equally! Also very pleasant to see the 3 Amigos make a comeback!
@ThrowinRowan 4 жыл бұрын
7:55 thus might be my new favourite sound clip.
@Stratguy10NZ 4 жыл бұрын
New subscriber - totally love the whole vibe around this. Great guys and awesome fun (really looking forward to Rhett's live shows). Its exactly the kind of conundrum I've debated my entire playing career - For the record I felt the G12H's had that mid range omph that I love.
@billklement2492 4 жыл бұрын
Rick, Great video! It'a amazing how much different the speakers are! It's not subtle. I'm listening on PC speakers (admittedly very good ones). It really shows why you need several cabinets. I'd love to see more of these comparisons. I'm rebuilding an 80s fender amp and figuring out what speakers to buy is challenging! I design and build HiFi speakers for a hobby when I can get to my woodworking tools and the expectation is the amp does not color the sound, but the speaker absolutely does. But with Guitar, the combination of amp and speaker make such a difference! Thanks for the great videos!!
@lordvermintide4441 4 жыл бұрын
Should have recorded your parts into a looper pedal, so we know the only difference is truly the speaker, and not your playing dynamics.
@Guitarisforgrins 4 жыл бұрын
I mean, it's a pretty substantial difference that simply can't be playing dynamics.
@ryans9029 4 жыл бұрын
@@Guitarisforgrins just takes any potential playing differences and dynamic differences out of the equation. I agree. Reamping through the different cabs would be the better way to go. But it's obvious enough
@Guitarisforgrins 4 жыл бұрын
@@mikeanaro Jesus dude... settle down. At least Rick would unlikely call someone a "huge idiot" because they did something differently than he expected.
@jonpowell4157 4 жыл бұрын
Also they could've recorded the DI signal and then re-amp the recorded DI signal into the testing takes.
@gr500music6 4 жыл бұрын
Agree. Playing is a very sophisticated, brain-modulated, feedback loop and everyone adjusts their playing to the sound coming back to their ears. Can't be helped.
@kensteckelberg7013 4 жыл бұрын
It’s like a mic shootout. Hard to say which one is “better”. I can hear both comparisons useable depending on application. Plus, isn’t “better” really a subjective analysis? It depends on what your ears like. I think both sets had great sound. I can hear that scooped sound on the newer speakers but it sounded good still. You all play well too so that helps. With Ricks lines, I too think the newer set sounded a little more pleasing to the ears. Great comparison. It sounded to me like someone flipped a “presence” switch to on with the older Celestion’s. Cool vid. 🤘😎
@ThePmfan 4 жыл бұрын
I think it's "which do you like better". I like the old ones. Obviously both are perfectly fine pro level speakers.
@thomastucker5686 4 жыл бұрын
I can't completely agree with your thought about depending on what your ears like because if you haven't heard or more importantly, experienced both sounds or even many different sounds, you might not even know or understand there is a difference. When I plug into my A rig it's golden, but if I heard it next to one of Rick's A rigs, or Rhett's, I might think I have trash for tone. I'm just sharing the first thing that came to mind while reading your thoughts. My ears don't even know what to like with certainty. I'm starting to realize, I like the wide variation of possibilities, but until youtube, I wouldn't have known as in my example. I have only owned maybe 8 guitar amps in my whole life including some really basic stuff, yet I always made music with them, while wishing for the killer guitar tone. Now I realize, there was some serious value in even the lower quality stuff I wish I had back, oh and the guitars I wish I could have back, nother topic.
@emo65170. 4 жыл бұрын
The objective question would be "Can you tell a difference between them", and apparently there is a noticeable difference. I like the old ones, personally.
@kensteckelberg7013 4 жыл бұрын
Thomas, good points. I think what I was trying to say is “better” is such a hard thing to differentiate. It is always fascinating to hear the differences between these speakers and it’s amazing how much difference magnets, paper, and coils can make. But when you’re recording or playing, you get used to a sound that is pleasing or acceptable to your ears. That becomes your sound per se, so to play through a different cab or speaker and change your tone with a more expensive speaker for example, may not be as pleasing to what you’re used to. So i think taste would be more important than better. I think Ricks comparisons were really fascinating and what a great thing for them to take the time to do. I can’t even tell you how much of my gear I wish I still had. Especially some of my earlier basses. There’s something to be said for history, quality, and the way things were made back in the 70’s and 80’s versus now. I can’t even think about some of it as it makes me deeply sad. The real beauty is that we have so many choices these days. So achieving our “best” in sound and gear is something that shouldn’t be too hard to do. And with videos like this one, it really helps us to make informed decisions. 👍
@thomastucker5686 4 жыл бұрын
@@kensteckelberg7013 I love these guys taking the time to make these videos. They even go scientific with tape. I always use tape, just but without the science part.
@visionlandmusic 4 жыл бұрын
Good to see the guys back together again!
@PhilAlbinus 4 жыл бұрын
Dave really needs a youtube channel for his killer riffing.
@repeatatron1 3 жыл бұрын
He get's service at the guitar store faster than Wayne
@andyracksthecams 4 жыл бұрын
It'll never work. You've let the vintage air out.
@swampdog1592 4 жыл бұрын
😂😅😆
@jaybefaulky4902 4 жыл бұрын
yes new electrons and different air..no chance
@plym1969 4 жыл бұрын
Not enough cigarette smoke, marajauna smoke, joss sticks you mean?
@andyracksthecams 4 жыл бұрын
@@jsullivan2112 Silly me.
@jasonmullinder 4 жыл бұрын
even a smoke filled room wont help, weed is different these days, acid gives different buzz... we don't have the tools to recreate the classics
@BustedJunkStudio 4 жыл бұрын
The new speakers sound tighter than the old ones just as one would expect, time takes it's toll on paper. Nothing profound about that.
@annunacky4463 4 жыл бұрын
Busted Junk Studio I was an engineer on tissue paper machines for two decades. Our large rolls of paper went into storage sometimes vs going straight to the equipment that cut it and rolled it into the small toilet rolls. The operators constantly told us the stored paper degraded over time and under tension. We tested the stuff and they were right. It loses elasticity, strength etc... So this makes scientific sense to me.
@grilledspaghetti 4 жыл бұрын
Well obviously you record on busted junk anyways.
@TheChzoronzon 4 жыл бұрын
Tighter???!!! Are we listening to the same recording?
@jasongress8764 4 жыл бұрын
The vintage speakers were definitely "warmer". The difference, to my ear, is like the difference between an MP3 and vinyl. The MP3 is louder, less dynamic range and thin. Vinyl is warm, more range but the upper frequencies aren't so overbearing.
@vanessafletcher6710 3 жыл бұрын
yes
@8MinuteAxe 4 жыл бұрын
I really enjoyed this guys. I like the chord voicings you used to really work the full range of the speakers. It's good to see Dave back in action. I had a brief moment of panic. At first I thought that Rhett had an ascot around his neck. Lol. Thankfully, it's just his mask. Not everything from Scooby Doo is cool. I was also thinking that having Rhett and Dave opening the cabinet only to find a couple of wise guys in there would have been a priceless moment. Seriously, another well done video.
@jaycon8662 4 жыл бұрын
Surprisingly I prefer the vintage speakers. They had more of that thick Jimmy Page-y tone to them, which I think makes the sound a lot more cohesive.
@HofTheStage 4 жыл бұрын
Vintage 30's sound better to me, less muddy, I feel that just like this, without additional processing, they would sit in most mixes better
@kylec2761 4 жыл бұрын
The whole point is the mix. I don’t see much point in comparing them solo. A lot of tones that sound good in a mix sound weird when isolated.
@HofTheStage 4 жыл бұрын
@@kylec2761 true
@RodrigoOrellano 4 жыл бұрын
Love this channel. Both sound amazing, I headbang like you 😆
@PLively 4 жыл бұрын
Love that riff at about 8 minutes that you play, Rick! I might nick it!
@scottaumann 4 жыл бұрын
I wonder if the new Vintage 30s we’re properly broken in before the test. That might make some difference. Otherwise, I prefer the older speakers for the styles being played here. I also thought Rick’s stuff sounded pretty good on the new speakers. Great test!
@VirtualWoodshed 2 жыл бұрын
I had the same thought. Un-broken in V30s are terribly harsh and that’s what my ears heard here. Not sure this was really a fair fight.
@Infinighost 4 жыл бұрын
My takeaway from this is that Orange makes the best amps ever. Wow, beautiful sounds.
@Skoora Ай бұрын
Too bad they don’t make an amp that sounds like that now. 70’s Orange vs. Modern Orange might as well be two different brands.
@rossturpen495 4 жыл бұрын
Would love to see this type of video on the impact of the effects loop on overall tone!
@ER-yq1lc 4 жыл бұрын
Dave Rocks! Love that riff around the 10 min mark.
@thetoddkeith 4 жыл бұрын
THE OLDER SPEAKERS SOUND LIKE THE 70’S THE NEWER ONES SOUND LIKE A TYPICAL GUITAR CENTER ON ANY GIVEN DAY.
@michaelianchampion7968 4 жыл бұрын
G12H for me, Vintage 30’s have a spongy feel that I’m not keen on.
@TheChadPad 4 жыл бұрын
Spongy is a good word for it. Spongy and slightly...hollow?
@nellayema2455 4 жыл бұрын
I want that '72 Deluxe! I had a '60 something Wilshire 12-string with mini-hums. I loved the sound of those pickups.
@MarkPritchardGuitar 4 жыл бұрын
Hey guys good to see you three making another video, i love your scientific experiments, i did prefer the vintage speakers apart from Ricks parts i actually prefered the new G12 H speakers. But lets be honest they all sounded fantastic. Great video Rick. Will we see a video on your Mrshall Plexi you recently purchased?
@dewdew34 4 жыл бұрын
Vintage sounded warmer to me and the new sound a bit "tinny" to me ? jm ear....
@manfredmarth5825 4 жыл бұрын
i wouldn't have called it tinny, nice term so, i call them more transparent :))) but tinny does the job
@thobina465 4 жыл бұрын
I agree.
@robgraham5016 4 жыл бұрын
Agreed - I said "richer" but warmer is also what I meant.
@mudwiser1391 4 жыл бұрын
I'm geeky enough to love this.
@thomastucker5686 4 жыл бұрын
Rick, that was a great experiment. As I explained to someone else, if I had the new cabinet and had never known about the other speaker possibility, I would live my life thinking this is how this cabinet is supposed to sound. What would also be interesting is to see if EQ could make both so similar as to not notice unless it was pointed out?
@peterswing8263 4 жыл бұрын
Love the added punch with the speakers changed out
@TheGuitologist 4 жыл бұрын
The V30s sound lifeless by comparison. The 70s speakers have much better midrange response. Less choked off. Less "refined" but with more life. Nice video, dudes!
@heathdaemon2763 4 жыл бұрын
ok boomer ;)
@You2ubeTool 4 жыл бұрын
u are correct sir.
@mikedenkinger9570 3 жыл бұрын
Agree.
@user-rc4re5fo2f 3 жыл бұрын
I think other way around...the 70s ones are duller and more mid scooped ie lifeless and less/worse midrange response, you may be listening thru laptop spks if you cant hear that. Better yet I have in person, I have these exact 70s blackbacks that came stock in a 70s orange 4x12. Didnt like em, knew they were weird in the mids. Dont like the V30 either tho...too sharp and crunchy hot in the upper mid spike. Greenbacks too dull. Ended up w/ a WGS veteran 30 for now that seem to be a nice balance of all the above, tho still looking at others
@tomasagustinveravicentin7789 4 жыл бұрын
I prefer the blackbacks, it has that old school rock tone for sure
@AdamGotheridge 3 жыл бұрын
The vintage g12h speakers really have that same vibe as the current g12h speakers to my ears.
@BigJohnnyMoe 4 жыл бұрын
I'm kind of drooling at the sound of that v30 to hear in a full band mix, double tracked and slightly panned. That said , I would use them both, the G12H's for detailed passages and solos. Thanks for doing this Rick. A pleasure to hear these.
@BenjaminHSmith 4 жыл бұрын
I actually think they both sound great though the vintage ones have a bit more heft. It would be interesting to do this test and not tell people which speaker is which and see their reactions. Honestly, the think I was most struck by was how much better than Les Paul Deluxe sounded than the other two guitars. Mini-humbuckers, who knew?
@aaronklein1490 4 жыл бұрын
I feel like the older speakers honestly sounded a lot more bold then the vintage 30s did. I feel like even metal players would appreciate that strong mid-range.
@derekmc9580 4 жыл бұрын
I like the older ones for sure. More grind and definition in the mids. Really cool video guys.
@spywithme 3 жыл бұрын
The focus on the mini humbuckers is interesting, I love it.
@MikeBaars83 4 жыл бұрын
Going al Johan Segeborn here.
@edwardmonsariste4050 4 жыл бұрын
Yeah! Johan shows up with some 80 grit sandpaper and Rhett gets a woody. Tone.
@kbkman7742 4 жыл бұрын
Brb getting sandpaper
@jimimac1340 4 жыл бұрын
The new speakers sound washed out compared to the bite of the vintage ones.
@trippgoldsberry2694 4 жыл бұрын
Well, there you go. I thought the Vintage 30s had more bite than the G12Hs. Another example of how it's pointless to try to declare one sound "better" than another.
@steveisolis 4 жыл бұрын
Great topic!!
@fylbennett944 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for doing this stuff for us. Please continue the great work. Quick question were the new speakers broken in or was the cabinet "straight out of the box". I've heard, and it does make sense to me, that new speakers are mechanically a little tight when they are brand new (much like a motor or new jeans lol). Unfortunately I have not had the financial ability nor the work environment to allow me first hand experience with this. So I ask you guys, "Is this really a thing and do you think it may have skewed the results?" Maybe, if they were new & you believe breaking in speakers to be a thing, you could add a third reference to your recordings with the new speakers "broken in". Anyway thanks for doing these A/B comparisons. Please keep adding them to your content.
@weixianng 4 жыл бұрын
The last time I was this early I was being super jealous at a kid's perfect pitch
@dkhemmen 4 жыл бұрын
Never mind the speakers, that red Les Paul sounds absolutely phenomenal!
@dkhemmen 4 жыл бұрын
@@wingracer1614 Well, we can be blasphemous together then.
@birdybutch 3 жыл бұрын
best trio on KZfaq! Rigby Atto, Rat Shelf and Dave Avocado!
@yocraigst 4 жыл бұрын
Hats off to Dave and all the knowledge he has in that brain...damn!
@libertyresearch-iu4fy 4 жыл бұрын
You could start a series called Music Mythbusters.
@edwardmonsariste4050 4 жыл бұрын
Johan does that in many videos
@RobBaartwijk 4 жыл бұрын
I like the G12 H’s a little better, the mid-range is more pronounced.
@brianingram2068 4 жыл бұрын
@Rick Beato, I can tell you going from having modern Celestion Alnico Blue speakers to hearing the original T530's (and the mid-60s silver T1088s) was just-about a life-changing experience. I immediately sold the modern Blues (and some modern clones), and picked up 3 more pairs of silver Celestions as fast as I could find them.
@Rabbit895 4 жыл бұрын
Great video it was fun.
@ziccuj 4 жыл бұрын
Pardon my nitpicking, but actually the G12H's on this video are from the late 70's, not early as Dave said. Amongst guitar speaker aficionados they are called "blackback" speakers because of their black magnet cover. The date code on the speaker frame (appears to be "MK22") reveals that they were made on December 22, 1977. Those are some great speakers though, but just to point it out. Early 70's - as well as late 60's - Celestion speakers used to have either green ("greenback" anyone?), cream or grey magnet covers. The most important difference sound-wise though is the cone: Celestion speakers up until around year 1974 used Pulsonic cones. Unfortunately the factory burned down and the original cone formula was lost. Celestions with Pulsonic cones are very sought after nowadays: they do exist, but are scarce, so prepare to pay top dollar for ones in good condition.
@rogersonger4454 4 жыл бұрын
I am always disappointed when comparisons like this are done without comparing the cleans.
@KevyNova 4 жыл бұрын
Yes! It’s pointless to do comparisons without playing clean.
@louderthangod 4 жыл бұрын
This is a non-master volume amp. It's not like you can just switch to the "clean channel", you'd have to radically change all of the settings on the amp and then hope you get them back. It would have been more of a nuisance than a help in this case.
@andreb670 4 жыл бұрын
That was awesome!!
@randalb7930 4 жыл бұрын
First I saw some ear training from your kids, then I saw some recording vids at a friend’s house, then I found your KZfaq page and subscribed, then followed on Instagram, and I still didn’t feel like buying your book. But then when I watched “I helped the fall of rock music” I thought harder. And now this. I thought surely no way, they’ll mess up the study, or won’t be noticeable... but damn! The vintage was so much clearer hearing your major 6/9 chords, which get hard to pick out when overdrive is used. The new ones were much muddier. So, in other words, thanks. Just bought your 4.0 book. See if the book will help find the holes in my voice leading skills.
@cdamiano100 4 жыл бұрын
Vintage 30’s all day. Such a more rounded sound.
@anthonynelson6029 4 жыл бұрын
To my ears, the vintage 30s had a thinner, crisper sound. The G12s had a fuller, muddier sound. Admittedly, the sound was out of my phone. I prefer the sound of the 30s, but they both sounded great.
@barrymagner713 3 жыл бұрын
Damn Dave, just killin it huh? 🤟
@marions.120 4 жыл бұрын
I use a early 90’s Marshall 4x12 with vintage 30’s powered by an Orange AD30HTC. With a Plimsoul pedal, everyone seems to love it! (Including me!) Everything from a clean tight sound to an incredible classic crunch. Oh yeah, my original Marshall 30th Anniversary head, well it was stolen. Great stuff guys!✌️🤪🎸🎵🎶🎵🎶🎵🎶
@PJ1R 4 жыл бұрын
I prefer the modern speakers as they have a much cleaner / brighter sound, you can always dirty a clean sound if you want but you cant clean up a dirty sound (if that makes sense)
@BradPham 4 жыл бұрын
Makes sense to me. But can you add mids to a scooped sound?
@kevinennis1631 3 жыл бұрын
Phil Rogers is this Helicopter Phil?
@qua7771 3 жыл бұрын
@@BradPham somewhat, but it's not the same. The V30's are only scooped in the lower mids. There's an upper mid nasal sound to them. I mixed 2 G12H-75's with 2 V-30's and thought is was amazing for any music and easier to EQ. The V-30's seem to have an upper mid spike that is nice when you need it but hard to EQ out when you want less of it. The mix of speakers tamed the V-30's while retaining what I liked about them. Of course this is an opinion but one many others share.
@BradPham 3 жыл бұрын
@@qua7771 I hope to try a G12H-75 at some point. I do recognise the honk of the V30 cab. Presently I'm mixing V30 with G12T-75 which is nice to my ears but perhaps not for everything.
@qua7771 3 жыл бұрын
@@BradPham I never tried a G12T-75. I have 4 Eminence clone AX-75 that people say sounds similar. They were in a 4x12 particle board Marshall cab that arrived, destroyed by shipping, over a decade ago. I ended up getting it for free and stripped the speakers and hardware. The G12T-75 V-30 combo sounds like it would be an exclent combination for high gain and metal. I think it would lack some warmth in the mids for southern and classic rock. The T-75's have about 3 db less sensitivity than V-30's so the V-30's will over power them (not necessarily a bad thing). H-75's and V30's are the same 100 db/ watt @ 1 meter so they have the same volume. The tone that I get from the H-75 and V-30 is sort of granola with bass, plenty of creamy mids with a little fizz on top. Articulate. The combo still has some of the honk from the V-30's. It works with my amp (Bad Cat Cougar with Raython 12ax7's and les Paul). I can scoop the mids with EQ for metal but I usually leave it alone. It's a matter of subjectivity, but I hopes this helps.
@johndcoffee632 4 жыл бұрын
*Music equipment exists* Rick: Dave? What is this?
@Andersabjorn1 4 жыл бұрын
Hahaha 😊
@flyingp830 4 жыл бұрын
"Good thing it's not heavy" - made my day :D As for my assessment, I'm not sure what I like better. For me, when comparing one against the other, regardless which way you look at it, there is something missing from the other. The new drivers are missing mid-range and highs, the old ones are missing low-end. One example of the latter is in Rhett's sample, the new speakers have a definite rumbling low E in the in-between spaces that is missing on the older ones. I think, barring electronics issues (matching impedance et. al.), in a live setting, you might be best with 2 and 2. Mic'ed up in the studio might be different though.
@martindeleonardis4616 4 жыл бұрын
Put a rag between the terminals and cone when soldering. Great video, as always, guys.
@pawnhearts8785 4 жыл бұрын
What makes this song great? The King is Half Undressed by Jellyfish
@eightfootmanchild 4 жыл бұрын
You can answer every "Are/Is vintage X better?" the same way: No.
@adamgillespie3393 4 жыл бұрын
Lol, yeah. It's pretty simple. Maybe modern lower end stuff aren't great but any solid piece of modern tech is miles better than vintage stuff
@davidyates8880 4 жыл бұрын
@@adamgillespie3393 how do you define better?
@EverHappyDude 4 жыл бұрын
Absolutely true.
@eightfootmanchild 4 жыл бұрын
David Yates Since there is no such thing as an “objective” tonal advantage to anything vintage, I would say it comes down to material things like price, design, availability of components, and ease of maintenance and repair. Modern is better than vintage for all of those. But value is subjective, of course. If you really want to shell out 75 grand for that particular 50s strat because you saw your favorite player had one on a record cover when you were thirteen, knock yourself out. Just don’t try and tell me it sounds or plays “better” than a $600 mexi made yesterday.
@davidyates8880 4 жыл бұрын
@@eightfootmanchild I thought this video was about speakers, not collectible guitars. Now to these ears, those vintage speakers sound better than the modern ones. Not dissimilar to my experience of owning vintage Marshall 4x12 cabs from the early 70s, as opposed to ones I bought new in the 1990s. So, in that respect, vintage can sound better than current. And if modern is so good, why do all these manufacturers try as hard as they can to recreate the technology and sound of the past? Why is the plexi circuit so revered? Why do so many boutique amplifier brands make amps based on that circuit? Why are the vast majority of guitars based on designs from the 1950s? If modern tech is so good, why do they struggle, like modern rock music does, to come up with something different and groundbreaking?
@rars0n 4 жыл бұрын
I had a Peavey Classic 50 combo, I replaced both the preamp tubes with tubes from my parents' jukebox (both the amp and the jukebox sounded better due to the swap) and the speakers themselves with Weber speakers. I rarely played it full volume, but that thing sounded sick every single time before I sold it, which was a huge mistake.
@ZillaCabs 3 жыл бұрын
You've got to watch out getting vintage speakers as very few people on ebay or reverb test them properly, it can be a bit of a mine field. Great video.
@messy113 4 жыл бұрын
vintage speakers. all the way! more nuance, musicality and more even timbre.
@mediumtalented9250 4 жыл бұрын
Not hearing what everybody is talking about. The G12H speakers sound like crap, like a blanket of fuzz over the top of it, so much added distortion. The newer Celestions sound high definition and clear, and less added distortion. I feel like im hearing the amp more and less of the speakers.
@danielj_music 4 жыл бұрын
The different speakers call for different gain and EQ settings in my opinion.
@TheChadPad 4 жыл бұрын
It's a different eq curve. There is all the same treble to my ears, but there's some BALLS to the sound now, ya know?
@VCustomShop 3 жыл бұрын
Outstanding video! I actually loved both sounds, each for it's own attributes. The vintage set had that killer warmth and texture that most of us only hope to get out of a guitar rig, while the V30 allowed all of the harmonic texture and subtle overtones to come out. With that being said, the V30's would definitely need so EQ sculpting to get the "quack" out of them on all but Rick's part..... and quite honestly, if Rick had not played those cool interval chords that made the v30's come alive (12:08-12:23), I would have said vintage takes the prize hands down.
@vspa 4 жыл бұрын
i did the same test at home and when you play your own gear the differences are much more evident !
@fandlpetroleum 4 жыл бұрын
The confirmation bias is strong in this comments section.
@cannonschwarz9554 4 жыл бұрын
i’m sure rick won’t see this, but i would be so excited if he did a what makes this song great on a jimmy eat world song!
@TheSteevo123 4 жыл бұрын
Such a great video
@thierrythierry1013 4 жыл бұрын
To my ears with the G12 H's Rhett's part sounds "thicker" than with the Vintage 30's while there are very very lite differences with Dave parts on both speakers configuration. Maybe it is the guitars/pick ups? By the way, Dave plays/sounds really nice !
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