I never thought I will watch a RISC-V video from DMS

I love just how much our interests overlap...

Open Source laptop running on Open Source processor with Open Source OS, that's the kind of utopian future i would like.

This laptop keeps getting better and better. I hope Framework will eventually launch an ARM motherboard too.

You're a fedora person too? I would love to see a Linux hifi video. Things like what apps/services you can run, how to get bit perfect playback, best settings for external dacs, etc. Some of the Linux hifi issues I face are things like the option in Fedora for "analog stereo" Digital, and ProAudio and I've never found a good explanation of what those are and how they change the digital signal going to my dac. Also hopefully a video like that would light a fire under the devs at various companies to natively support Linux. The Tidal flatpak won't work on my Framework 13 but does on desktop and things like the Qobuz downloader only works on Windows/mac so I have to download whole albums track by track. Also a note on what you said at 4:40, that's speculative execution which is a massive vulnerability in x86 CPUs and Apple silicon. It may give more performance, but IMO I'd rather just have a really good baseline performance if possible.

didn't expect a RISC-V video from DMS and learning he's a linux user at the same time

I'd love to see a Framework with a Snapdragon X Elite

Risc V and DMS that's Exciting ❤

Now this is exciting news! I really didn't expect a video like this from you, and I didn't know you're a Framework and Linux user. Three really nice surprises!

Sick! I'm very excited to see this!

I hope RISC-V becomes a competitor for x86 and Arm.

I like that Framework is branching out beyond just Intel and AMD. I was wondering if it would be ARM or RISC-V that got there first, but considering their open nature I'm not surprised it was RISC-V. Since it's open source and people can mess around with the architecture a bit, I think it would be cool if someone did a laptop where it had both an ARM CPU for everyday low power tasks like web browsing and watching KZfaq, but also had a RISC-V CPU for more compute heavy tasks like video editing, gaming, or 3D modeling. Basically an ARM based laptop for good battery efficiency, but with a RISC-V co-processor for when you needed a little extra processing power.

I was hoping Framework would launch an ARM version, but this is even better! Long live RISC-V!

This is really exciting!

DMS, sorry to be off-topic but you've got to know this! I just tried Alternative A2DP Driver and it works on my Sony WH-1000-XM4 in LDAC, 24 bit, 96kHz, stereo, encode quality high! If you've not heard of Alternative A2DP Driver, that's a replacement Bluetooth driver for Windows 10 and 11 which unlocks LDAC, AAC and SBC Bluetooth codecs, thus enabling your higher end devices to be used on a Windows computer with their full audio quality. Before this, I was only able to drive my Sony WH-1000-XM4 on Windows in the only Windows supported mode - 16 bit, 44.1 kHz. More people need to know about this. You've got to make a video! :) The software comes with full free trial and then it's a one-off purchase of $5.99 or $8.99 but please don't think I have any connection to the developer. I just tried this now and saw you posted a new video so I wanted to share this with you and the audio community. If you have any LDAC device, try it out for free!

Cool to see more content outside of headphones,

our interests are the same, love it

What CPU architecture will be the first implemented in graphene? 6502, z80, risc-v?

laptop of Theseus - I like that. planning to by the RISC-V version when it comes out

Great video!❤

How is the fan noise in dB or in sone? Idle and full power? Thankyou:)

'...a fully customizable computer that you can make last for a long time' has been around for a while, it's called a desktop pc :P, but yeah, in terms of a laptop I guess the closest thing we have atm are some old thinkpads, this does look sweet.

Being a dev kit, I would guess once it becomes a full on consumer product prices should drop, and that is the main point in risc v if you ask me (price to performance)

Presumably would be running open source firmware? In which case I'm in.

Wait a minute … how does it sound. Can we change the headband? Does it respond well to EQ. Where do you stick the tubes. 😂

This is amazing!!

Framework and RISC V in one video, let's goooooo!

I wish there was more products like this. I don't own a Framework laptop. but my phone is Fairphone. It is build with exactly the same goals and principles. In case of the phone not so much upgraded, but repairability. Fairphone does not release hardware upgrades very often, but the spare parts are available and they are very cheap. And software support is very long term. Which is amaxing in the age of planned deprecation.

With Cooler Master making a case for the framework i think it would be cool having some small portable RISK-V machines. Not sure what if it would be better then a laptop running it but still neat.

Will snapdragon x elite and OLED display come to framework?

you could put that RiscV board in a Cooler Master chassis that Framework worked with, hopefully

Ever thought about making a high quality audio expansion card for framework laptops?

Will you make a video about Music/Audio on linux, could be interesting for people who have not the best hardware and want to move on from Windows?

For people who are not familiar. RISC is often used by android systems and even the m1 and m2 chip is a RISC type chip. X86 are generally on CISC chip or 'Complex' instruction set. All in all, risc-5 coming to Framework opens up the new line of open source arm computer line up for framework, which i would say is a big game changer in the diversity of framework computers

I am so exited for the RISC-V main board, it lacks some repair ability because the soldered RAM and storage, but I am so here for it. We just need to get a little bit more development for a faster RISC-V CPU, and ideally LPDDR5CAMM2, and we're good.

I got my sipeed 4A RISC-V laptop it's sweet.

I'm excited about a fully open source computer tbh

Finally, a real reason to throw FreeBSD on my framework 13 lol

Did you fully switch from your Macbook to the Framework laptop?

The Umami Shirt!

I'd love to watch n actual showdown between the AMD Framework and the Meteor Lake Framework.

funny that I basically already own this device. I've had the visionfive2 which has the JH7110 for quite a while now.

I think ARM is where it's at, if you examine the offerings from the big cloud providers. The cost vs x86 is much lower, and it has full Linux support.

For me, handheld gaming PCs are what I want to be a bit more efficient. The Steam Deck is definitely getting there, but the 7840u in a handheld is such a powerhouse. And you're able to get them for fairly cheap considering the full price of a framework laptop, just with not all the open source and repairability. I'm hoping there is a merging of the repairability of framework and the more compactness of these gaming handhelds. And I know valve is doing that, but I also mean for some of the more powerful devices, like the apu that DMS has in his framework laptop and the ability to swap out RAM, like with what we are seeing with CAMM 2 modules from Computex this year.

hi, whats the mic u using in this video?

what is the 1943 t-shirt about?

how do we figure that the framework initial price is higher? Compared to other vendors it seems cheap? Am i missing something?

What i'd like to see is a DAW that supports riscV

Interesting why you didn't turn on to let see how it performs?

recently developed interest in memory-safe architecture, is it RISC-V memory-safe?

I see that you've seen material about branch prediction in the CPU pipeline, but I think you didn't quite get it even though you were close. CPU is a very complicated scheme and in base they are just transistors with 0s and 1s, so people make blocks that can transform input of 0s into 1s etc. These blocks are combined into the processing units and usual CPU core has many of them. Average x86 cpu has multiple ALU - Arithmetical Logical Unit that can work with if/elses and basic math with integers, FPU - Floating Point Units that work with fractional numbers. These are the units that were used in the first CPUs alone, but as computation got more complex and bigger, wider, deeper, humanity faced a need to work with larger amount of data from memory and storage, so ALUs and FPUs were taken as a base, so called back-end and new set of blocks was created - front-end. Front-end moves data from RAM, loads it into CPU data registers that CPU use to calculate whatever is in the register that invloves a lot of microoperations nobody wants to work with because it is all binary and uses hexadecimal system for addresses, like where to pull data from, what to do with that, what to calculate, where to move the result etc and doing it step by step with all the microoperations from the scratch waster too much time, so front-end got a special pipeline and simplified instructions that consisted of smaller operations. Pipeline consisted of instructions that were converted into operations that do all the stuff with data and using ALUs and FPUs. So here is RISC and CISC come into play since CISC had Complete Instruction Set that included whole lot of them and RISC and Reduced Instruction Set, so on, less instructions, but they performed same operations of load-store-execute. But pipeline, as it's name suggests, is long and consists of both data and instructions, so it may be inefficient if we do the same microoperation with different data, so there came microoperations cache for faster access to them, like if we need to move data from register A to B, from C to D and from H to F, we will just use microoperations load and store from cache freeing pipeline from them instead of sending: 1) load from; 2) reg A; 3) store to; 4) reg B taking 4 places of pipeline instead of just 2 with just the data needed. And here is where Branch Prediction I started with comes in. Branch prediction lives in the front-end of the CPU and is responsible for predicting what microoperation will be needed to prevent clogging of the pipeline resulting in faster execution of needed instructions. It works based on the algorhithms Intel, AMD and arm are not willing to share, but in the example if we try to calculate pi number on the cpu we do a lot of the same operations, but get more and more data, so instead of doing loading, storing, loading storing after every new digit counted, branch predictor may intervene in the execution and let that fill in all registers and move digits in the batch. And frame generation on GPUs works differently based on neural networks, but that's too long to describe. Just the fact - they are different. Ah and also, all CPUs, GPUs, NPUs, TPUs and all kind of Us and even memory controllers use ALUs and FPUs one way or another as far as I know.

So, now you HAVE to co-design your own dac -card with 3.5 and 4..4 for the framework port. Altho, i think you already are.

More framework content plz 😅

I have had a FrameWork 16 since May 1st. Running Linux Mint.

No way. Same interests down to even the OS.

i want a good dac module for this laptop

hopefully it has a UEFI bios, getting really tired of uboot and serial tty’s

I'd love to see a RISC-V processor that can match up to Apple Silicon. Used to love Thinkpads for the repairability, but fanless is really hard to give up. Definitely want to get a Framework 13 at some point, if only to support open hardware initiatives. Sidnote: great to see you branching out on your content DMS! This is good stuff. edit: RISC-V is an ARM-alternative.

How much faster is Risc-V than the Risc of Arm?

Review the AR-5000!!!

Hello fellow RISC-V and umami enthusiast...

We need a SD X for Risc-V

Nice line. The laptop of thesius. 😂

Apple used to be a big proponent of RISC architecture but then they abandoned it for some reason. Now they jumped on the ARM bandwagon. Anyway, it is interesting for it to come back to spotlight again. It also brings memories of SGI workstations and Amiga computers. 🙂

I have been very interested in buying a RISC-V SBC devboard for some time now, but have yet to see one with 16Gb of ram. If this is forward looking tech they better have the bare minimum specs for today. 2, 4, 8Gb main memory is 10+ years ago specs. of course that's just my opinion.

Wow, didn't think u would make a laptop video, that too on framework, and u are a linux boy as well, and that too Fedora

I'm given to understand CPU instruction decode complexity contributes more to the RISC advantage over CISC than ease of branch prediction. The primeagen did a good video on this 'X86 Needs To Die' with Casey Muratori. RISC-V is less encumbered with intellectual property BS than x86 or arm but it can still have some proprietary stuff tacked on to a given SOC. For more detail checkout Andrew Katz's talk: 'Free and Open Source Licensing and RISC-V'

OH MY FUCKING GOD

Risc-v was designed for the intention of making it easy for CPU designers to develop niche chips without the burden of not having a software ecosystem. It's versatile enough to be used as a general computing platform though it's not going to measure up. It's really expensive for a chip to be manufactured at the most efficient fabs and a niche chip design is not going to get produced in scale to compete in performance.

We need an apple silicon/snapdragon oryon moment for RISC V...

I have a Gen-1 Framework 13. It's a cool machine and cool idea. It sounds like RISC-V is for devs and tinkerers, not for you main system or general computing. How can we improve the laptop speakers/sound on the Framework?

It's probably a better idea to get the Milk-V Mars or Starfive VisionFive2 if you want to test the JH7110. This CPU is incredibly slow and mostly useful as a development board to try out RISC-V. It's not really something that makes sense in a laptop. As a comparison, the speed is around the speed of a RaspberryPI 3. But overall it's still cool that the Framework Laptop as a platform allows building such a thing.

DMS! Thanks for posting this video

Let me know when it can run Linux Mint. 8o)

Oh hell ya, DMS likes Linux.

While I LOVE the concept of Framework launching a JH7110 mainboard, I've got a StarFive 2 (which uses the same CPU). The JH7110 benches out somewhere between a BCM2837 and a BCM2711. It works for VERY light web browsing and word processing. It might be "adequate" for KZfaq, but really, you're boiling down to users having a negative user experience. I'd much rather see them go after SpacemiT's K1 (from the DC-ROMA Laptop II) or something equivalent or better. I love the RISC-V architecture, and really want it to get a fair shake. Which means I don't want the whole ISA to be seen as inferior when the problem is with an older, underpowered, development CPU.

If this catches on, I am buying one instead of my arm macbook

fedora for life

so you like 1. audio 2. phones 3. computers 4. guns just like me frfr

Is it true the Chinese have already produced 5.5 billion risc 5 chips already ?

Yeah, this is the futture.

Great video but could've been better from someone who knew a bit more about RISC-V, the video had several incorrect information which I'm sure is unintentional.

I love my passively cooled, completely silent Macbook Air M2, and I'm very much looking forward to something with similar performance and power efficiency coming to the PC market. I don't necessarily love all of the decisions that Apple makes and would prefer to support a company that is more pro-consumer, but the performance and efficiency deficit between the Apple M Series and any x86-64 chip from the likes of Intel or AMD is simply too great to overlook right now. If Framework were to release a main board with a RISC based CPU that is on par with the M2 in terms of performance and efficiency, is passively cooled, and has good software support from the Linux developers, then I am sold.

Someone need to integrate these RiscV cores into a CPU and there is none. We have some SoC and micro controllers with it, but no desktop nor server class around to make a product or two. Also, as long as there is no Windows for it, there is no desktop anyway as Linux is not a thing in that space.

i prefer Risc-V on ARM because its kinda the same but Risc-v is open source

..wait, that's it? I want more. Is it good? Software availability? C

How did this happen before an arm main board? Oh yeah, cause you don't have to license anything.

People talk about the initial price, what they don't talk about is the hidden fees with others. You can fix this when something breaks. By the way DIY pc building costs more than dell and others. BUt you keep upgrading the cpu or whatever over years, and can fix things, and the parts are better. You shouldn't even need to explain this. Take a part a dell or even a macbook (you can) the compare. I'll put in a nvme drive. This is 100% my next laptop (probably the 16 inch normal version though but framework I mean). It will help to get more influencers talking about this computer. Tell your friends.

I like the move to Risc-V, however I wished they had created a stronger special Chip for Framework. The mentioned Chip is... not the strongest one. I think it's a bit weaker than the Raspberry Pi 4 CPU.

Potato

DMS, are you ok? You can't put a laptop on your ears. Also, that room... Is it done? How much is hidden by the camera framing. #Studio tour when

4:36 yo wtf are you talking about. Saying branch prediction will be the leading performance improvement is insane.

This is really cool. Although RISC-V isn't quite ready yet (even Arm is just barely ready in terms of software). I'd love an X Elite Framework

Conceptually this is cool, but the JH7110 is too slow for any sane person to use as a main board. They are 1/5 the speed of an Intel Core Duo from 2008 in single core and 1/3 the speed in multicore. Another metric is 1/10 the speed of the similarly priced Arm-based RK3588's.

Nani

Would be awesome to see a RISC-V coprocessor in the Framework 16 expansion bay.

So, very much like Linux, extremely cool and I love what they're doing, but something that's gonna need to cook for a while longer before I can comfortably jump in. No amount of "everything works out of the box" from people that have the free time to tinker can convince me otherwise. I'll make the jump eventually, just not now.

Importantly the JH7110 appears in several manufacturers' products. It is fast and inexpensive enough that it would make sense to get a load of them as a compile farm as the VisionFive2 reference board is available from many vendors. JH7110 PCIe host support was recently accepted to Linux -next for 6.11 release. I don't think it makes sense as a daily driver for graphical UI OS but you could if you wanted to, it would just be like that 233MHz HP Pavilion Desktop from history that some of us might have had and got done quite a lot of interesting computing with, or maybe a little faster than that. Even better, the JH7110 part itself is available in single quantities and you could design your own product based on it, which is sort of impossible for any of the other CPU architectures that Framework laptops have featured until now. For those people that are fixated and raw performance numbers compared to the newer Apple silicon, you're missing the point completely.

The MacBook for Haters has arrived !!!!!

i own the framework. the laptop feels flimsy and the screen is terrible quality the trackpad also is barely functional imo, even with the driver bundle dont get me wrong, i still love it, it just has some issues