Rise and fall of Games Workshop's paint range of the 2000s (retro review)

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Күн бұрын

While many fondly recall the iconic white flip-top Citadel Colour paints of the late 80s and early 90s, it seems that people are less enthusiastic about the paint range of the 2000s. However, it was this range that introduced revolutionary concepts like ready-made washes and extra high opacity “Foundation” paints. In this retro review, I delve into Games Workshop's former Citadel Colour range and explore if they still have their place in today’s Warhammer hobby or are better left forgotten.
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0:00 Intro
0:37 Rise and fall of the former range
4:08 Retro review
6:28 The metallics
7:09 Foundation paints
9:17 Inks & washes
12:06 Finished Ultramarines Captain
13:08 Final thoughts
Thanks to andriko35 for providing most of the vintage paints shown in this video :)
Background music in the miniature showcase part:
"Showdown" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
creativecommons.org/licenses/b...
#citadelcolour #review #retro

Пікірлер: 85

@stahly_taleofpainters 11 ай бұрын

You can find the colour swatches of the old Citadel Colour range here on my website: taleofpainters.com/2023/07/retro-review-the-1998-2012-citadel-colour-range/

@Wijkert 9 ай бұрын

I tried searching for the swatches, but can't find them in the review article.

@mirage809 11 ай бұрын

Fun story I've heard: when designing the current range of Citadel paints GW was supposedly in talks with Vallejo to handle things. Vallejo reportedly got as far as to have a whole range of prototypes lined up for GW when the deal fell apart. Now, Vallejo didn't want to just toss out a good amount of time and money invested in R&D on those paints, so they changed the names a bit to remove all the Warhammer references and sold them as the original Game Color range.

@stahly_taleofpainters 11 ай бұрын

Yeah heard that as well but never found any confirmation.

@none167 3 ай бұрын

I find myself looking for the old paint not for nostalgic value, but purely for their vibrancy. The colours are so much more saturated and strong that for some purposes it can make a huge difference.

@HalfPastJack 11 ай бұрын

Those colors were great. The black fliptop packaging was so well made that they never dry out. I still have some and they are identical to when I bought them.

@942mattu 11 ай бұрын

I started with the black flip top hexagonal paint pots from the 2000s. I remember the paints being so good quality and smelling also good!! I really miss those paints, one in particular which I miss is Tin Bitz, there does not seem to be any replacement for that.

@mrdave02 11 ай бұрын

Vallejo game colour "tinny tin" is what I use. From what I remember it's very similar.

@NargSmart Ай бұрын

This is when I started, thanks for the retro dive. I still have a trusty tin bitz. Always appreciate your in depth take

@voiceofsilence1169 3 ай бұрын

That was a trip down memory lane for sure. I entered the hobby with the post 1998 paint range, and to this day dearly miss some of my favourites. You already mentioned the dark greens and bright oranges, but I would also add two, that were staples in my hobby group: Scorpion green and Tentacle Pink. Both had an intensity that is not found in the new range. Tin Bitz and Shadow Grey were some of my mains and favourites, and since then I have found many colours close, but just not "it". Warplock is too red, The Fang too purple, other replacements too dark, too grey or too blue. Having to search for replacements for my existing armies, by shopping but also mixing, kinda soured the 2012 launch for me, which over time made me switch to Vallejo almost completely (except the Base reds, these are awesome) But this is just an old mans rambling :D It is awesome that the size of ranges and readily available triads or quintets has gone up, aswell as the tools to get a good looking horde of tiny plastic soldiers in a short amount of time. To make the painting experience easier and more accessible for beginners only benefits the hobby.

@MrGibsn1960 9 ай бұрын

It's so funny. I was using future floor wax as a wash medium back then because it was an acrylic medium that made great washes. I was using that stuff well before the quick wash era.

@DukensteinA1 11 ай бұрын

About the screw top bolt cartridge bottle: I still have a scar on the skin near my thumb from trying to open one of the paints. I was twisting so hard that my skin gave way and sloughed away about a 2”X.5” patch.

@stahly_taleofpainters 11 ай бұрын

Oh no, sounds horrible! They should have come with a parental advisory warning!

@GarethEtherington 11 ай бұрын

Incredibly informative, nostalgic trip. Really enjoyed this video. Congratulations, it's a banger.

@juanjesusvegastimon7914 11 ай бұрын

The saddest day in my life in the hobby, was when I ran out of the last bottle of dheneb stone, I haven't been able to find a substitute for that color, I hope they put out a nostalgia miniseries of the best colors in this range.

@NargSmart Ай бұрын

Cool about the production companies. And yea so many hated old screw pots!!

@Mattw1987 11 ай бұрын

Amazing paint job as always love your space marines

@JJR_01 11 ай бұрын

Another thoroughly enjoyable video - I love these comparison videos.

@stahly_taleofpainters 11 ай бұрын

Cheers :)

@arandomlostsoul753 11 ай бұрын

Thank you so much for this little retro review, I agree that today we have so many paint ranges that surpass those older paints; and whoever invented those screw-tops truly made a horrific mistake! The 1998-era paints were the first paints I used, but in hindsight, they were really a mixed bag; the paints were vibrant and mixed well, but had generally poor opacity and of course, the pots they came in were simply the worst.

@Boshea241 3 ай бұрын

RIP Tallarn Flesh. It only took me a decade to find a decent replacement in Monument's Beige Red. Nothing in the updated range came close to foundation.

@george2408 11 ай бұрын

I need that dark angels green to come back.

@russellede 11 ай бұрын

Can you put a trigger warning on the video before mentioning the screw top paints 😅 they were a true nightmare

@stahly_taleofpainters 11 ай бұрын

They were :D

@youtubevanced4900 11 ай бұрын

The old round pots I started with were so good in comparison. I can't believe they went to those horrendous screw tops. The round pots sealed so well I still have a couple pots still usable. In fact my son used the old mithril silver paint on a model yesterday. It predates all the paint pots shown in this video. Pretty incredible.

@gorkamorka999 10 ай бұрын

@@youtubevanced4900 That you can still use the paints you bought in the white pop-cap bottles is probably the reason they stopped selling them. Those hard plastic screw tops on the other hand...you needed replacements all the time.

@youtubevanced4900 10 ай бұрын

@@gorkamorka999 yeah, your not wrong. The old round pots weren't without fault though. Sometimes paint would dry under the rim and you'd have to use your teeth to lever the thing open. The little tabs on the lid would always break off. Eventually the lid would crack which is what caused the eventual downfall of each pot. Goblin Green was the last pot lid to die on me. Now I'm down to mithril silver and maybe one brown paint. Can't complain as I bought that paint back in 95 or 96. Painted the chainmail on my high elf army with it. Man I wish I could go back and tell younger me not to sell that army. Traded it for a force feedback joystick.

@nomusenopaint 11 ай бұрын

Thank you for mentioning the glossy Army Painter Shades. Until now I thought it was just me. I washed some beards on my Dwarf Warriors using Flesh Shade and the now look like they put tons of beard wax on there like little hipsters. I love your paint review videos! Keep it on please! :)

@steffansaxton-williams5041 7 ай бұрын

That model is a beauty!

@11AleZZ 11 ай бұрын

They were pretty good, foundations was a must have for any mini painter, I still have a couple of washes , devlan mud still stink like 15 years ago

@trivialpershoot 10 ай бұрын

The foundation paints and washes were made in China only to BEGIN with. They then moved to France like the rest of the range. I don't know what changed but the washes definitely smelled different (worse?) after production in France. You can tell the difference from the labels; Foundation from China has thin blue line around top of label, Foundation from France has thick blue background to 'CITADEL' on the label. For washes the label changes are in the yellow highlight.

@bang3rachi 11 ай бұрын

I'm still holding on to my dheneb stone and a bunch of others, love the old paints

@OrakelofDeath 10 ай бұрын

ca. 9:25 : Ähm... This is strange. (Okay, I had a long Pause from the Hobby in the 2000, so I didn't know this Paintrange, but at least in the 90is there were Washes.) I used the Ranges from 1994 and 1998.

@onarollgames 11 ай бұрын

I was one of the ones that didn't like the switch over from hex pots to screw caps, but I kept with it 'cause I shopped and hung out at GWs. When they switched the caps, I stayed with them, and ended up owning the whole range. I did some good painting with that stuff and worked around the idiosyncrasies, but pretty much switched to P3 when they came out. These paints were what they were, but now that there are so many different ranges out there, I have no need to go back. I have more nostalgia for the '94 range that I started with, but am happy with what's out there now.

@Gloomshimmer 10 ай бұрын

try nostalgia 94 from warcolours.

@jeffholt9437 11 ай бұрын

Armour wash from the hexagonal flip top range - oh to find a palette of these.......! And the screw caps - all dried up and gone but I have tons of the previous range still.

@Blacknight8850 2 ай бұрын

My "white whale" of paints from these days, like how people miss Tin Bitz, is Flesh Wash (which was, confusingly, an ink) - I used loads of it back in the day but I've yet to find a wash or ink that looks exactly right.

@stahly_taleofpainters 2 ай бұрын

Yeah most of the old inks are impossible to replace

@edwardlow667 6 ай бұрын

Oh ja, die zum schrauben waren ein absoluter Albtraum...;) Danke für deine konsistenten Reviews...machst du gut!

@grimskald 11 ай бұрын

Charadon Granite!!!! Amazing, I've not found anything similar

@stahly_taleofpainters 11 ай бұрын

Ashen Grey from wave 2 of the Two Thin Coats range is the closest match I ever found!

@komma8203 11 ай бұрын

Ak interactiv deep shades are now on the marked, there one coat paints

@stahly_taleofpainters 11 ай бұрын

Have to try these? Aren't they more like washes though?

@komma8203 11 ай бұрын

@@stahly_taleofpainters ak shipped the line to me on the release day, but i have not got them yet, takes a bit of shipping time between Spain and Norway

@edpaintsstuff 5 ай бұрын

Hi Stahly! If you don't mind me asking, what is the closest match you've found for the 1998-2012 Ultramarines Blue? It's an integral part of my Space Marines scheme & so I'm currently hunting for a replacement as sadly my last pot is running low and I've only just realised. I've picked up a whole swathe of 'matches' from a variety of paint ranges, however would be interested in your opinion as it's clearly been an important colour for your Ultramarines in turn too! Thank you in advance :) Loved the Captain & have recently discovered your channel - please keep up the awesome content!

@stahly_taleofpainters 5 ай бұрын

Hi Ed, it's actually Altdorf Guard Blue. Or the old Game Color Ultramarine Blue, the new version is too muted.

@timomatic6226 11 ай бұрын

I just really miss slapping that good old chestnut ink on my blood angels. Nice shading and that sweet glossynes effect all in one. ... Though i also ruined my old chair with one pot. 😂 thanks so much for this video. weiter so :)

@gorkamorka999 10 ай бұрын

The hard plastic of the old pots was also prone to cracking. Had a pot of with a crack running down the entire side of the bottle. Needless to say the paint was useless. Since the caps liked to get stuck...parts of the threaded top part ended up breaking off the pots all the time as well. I only ever used one Foundation Paint. The smell nearly made me throw up.

@JeffJedi 10 ай бұрын

I got about six paints and a month later they had dried up before i even used them in those pots.

@stahly_taleofpainters 10 ай бұрын

😢

@ThomasGallinari 11 ай бұрын

My first paint set in 2000 🥲 the screw caps were terrible 😂 I remember using a wrench to open some of them

@stahly_taleofpainters 11 ай бұрын

Yeah, me too!

@justinkotrba2197 11 ай бұрын

this was a great history lesson in the previous citadel paint line. Your paint job was also very clean. did you put any varnish on him afterwards? looks a bit satin.

@stahly_taleofpainters 11 ай бұрын

Yeah, I did. Back then we didn't have ultra matt varnish :D

@warsmithpainting 10 ай бұрын

Stahly have you found a good replacement for Mordian Blue that's more easily available? Or a mix to get it just right? I've been on a quest for years with no success!

@stahly_taleofpainters 10 ай бұрын

Well, Macragge Blue is obviously pretty close but not a 100% match. Marine Blue from the Two Thin Coats range also comes close but is a nuance darker, lighten it up with a litttle bit of Vallejo Game Color Ultramarine Blue or Elfic Blue could be promising.

@MrXandrox 11 ай бұрын

Hi there! What kind of brush so you use in the Utramarine Blue Section (around minute 5)? They look really good for detail work!

@stahly_taleofpainters 11 ай бұрын

It's a Winsor & Newton Series 7 M 000 :)

@MrXandrox 11 ай бұрын

@@stahly_taleofpainters Thank you, I went ahead and ordered some! Btw, could it be that you are from Germany or is that part of the secret identity? ;)

@citizenrico42 11 ай бұрын

I miss hawk turquoise

@alexc8209 11 ай бұрын

I bought some flip top paints in 1991 that were still good in 2014! I cant remember which colours but i think there was two of them and maybe they were metallics or something i didnt use much anyway. The black tops dried in like a few months, not all but some did. Shit French crap. Todays paints seem ok but the top is annoying because you cannot open or close it properly without getting messy. To be honest todays colours seem better than the originals but the names are not as good.

@TheDuke07 11 ай бұрын

RIP Foundation paints still got a couple pots I'm using on their last legs

@apollux012 11 ай бұрын

Charadon Granite. RIP. Couldn’t continue my Tyranids colour scheme. 😢 so I sold them and never started Tyranids again.

@stahly_taleofpainters 11 ай бұрын

Try Ashen Stone from Two Thin Coats wave 2. Closest match I ever found.

@JoeBoster 9 ай бұрын

I do wonder what it is about the citadel screw tops that was so bad scale model paints have been mostly screw tops since the beginning and still are.

@mikaelfabian143 11 ай бұрын

I approve

@Justin_black_leviathan 11 ай бұрын

The washes were really good. Devlin mud was my go to.

@stahly_taleofpainters 11 ай бұрын

Yeah, I was so sad when I ran out of it.

@Justin_black_leviathan 11 ай бұрын

@@stahly_taleofpainters guys at the local game store called it "devlin talent"

@gregmccormack5709 11 ай бұрын

Yeah the old pots were brutal, aint nobody got time to wipe the entire edge every use😂.

@BrunoGomesCamolas 10 ай бұрын

1998 onwards citadel gave me so much problems I quit and never returned. I don't really care how much Citadel improves or not their paints. At the priciest range for 12 ml bottles (that still aren't droppers) and with all the alternatives in the market (most of which are superior) there is no real reason to buy any citadel pots.

@athan336 10 ай бұрын

Mordian blue was way too dark for ultramarines maybe for crimson fists

@stahly_taleofpainters 10 ай бұрын

You might think of Necron Abyss? Mordian Blue is the colour I used for the Ultramarines Captain in the video and I think it's perfect.

@apollux012 11 ай бұрын

One more comment. Thanks for this video. Love it. Very nostalgic but you missed why the stopped producing in China the previous range. The rumour says the used waste water to produce the colours which lead to bad smell when you opened the colour bottle. 😷

@stahly_taleofpainters 11 ай бұрын

Haven't heard of that! The Painting Phase podcast had a former GW hobby product designer as a guest a while ago, and he mentioned the washes smelled so bad because they had organic components that would decompose over time, and they didn't put enough preservatives in the formula to prevent that.

@cfariagoncalves 2 ай бұрын

I don’t get it you keep saying they had no washes until blah but I have washes from the 90s citadel range, flesh wash armour was etc

@cloroxbleach6673 8 ай бұрын

i'm so confused, what's the difference between citadel colour and a normal citadel pot?

@stahly_taleofpainters 8 ай бұрын

I suggest watching the video, especially the beginning, when I go through the history and iterations of the Citadel Colour range.

@cloroxbleach6673 8 ай бұрын

so this range was discontinued in 2012 according to the video, but i'm still able to buy colour paints at my local game shop that has the GW trademark of 2022. did the colour range just get an update or something? @@stahly_taleofpainters