Rivian Standard LFP Battery Pack Charging Curve First Look! 0-100% DC Fast Charging Test

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19 күн бұрын

Kyle evaluates the first data we have on the new Rivian Standard ~92kWh LFP battery pack. Chris takes his standard dual motor Rivian R1S to an Alpitronic DC Fast Charger for a full charging test. A huge thanks to him for doing this!
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Пікірлер: 164

@darwking8188 18 күн бұрын

Chris quote of the day "oh boy". Lol. That's how I feel trying to live the Out of Spec life

@davidbaker9943 17 күн бұрын

lol agreed

@cmdrant 18 күн бұрын

I took delivery of the Gen2 standard battery pack 2 weeks ago, I have been impressed by the range of the LFP battery for daily usage.

@AustinFerguson 18 күн бұрын

what are you seeing for range?

@cwang9915 18 күн бұрын

@@AustinFerguson I have the Gen 2 Standard LFP, indicated range at 100% is 263. I think it was 271 when i picked up. Which is higher than what Rivian says is the range

@AustinFerguson 18 күн бұрын

@@cwang9915 have you done a road trip yet? How far was the longest drive and % before charging.

@cwang9915 18 күн бұрын

@@AustinFerguson have not, it has 62 miles on it still. I've mainly been driving my X Plaid around town due to it having better efficiency. I'm only taking the R1S if I need the space. I'm hoping for the charging curve to be much better as the R1S will be my Mammoth mountain snow vehicle and prior R1S only got like 1.6 mi/kw

@BillyONeal 18 күн бұрын

Rivian shows rated range that doesn’t account for conditions sadly. You have to look at real efficiency averages for the kind of driving you’re doing and multiply by pack size

@brandenflasch 18 күн бұрын

LFP rocks for most EVs

@PJWey 18 күн бұрын

Amazing what is possible with glorified rust. Love my LFP MG4 ☺️

@ledzeppelin1212 17 күн бұрын

Love my LFP Tesla...but I'm curious. For which EVs does LFP NOT rock?

@chidorirasenganz 17 күн бұрын

💯

@chidorirasenganz 17 күн бұрын

@@ledzeppelin1212 performance ones

@ledzeppelin1212 17 күн бұрын

@@chidorirasenganz Still rocks, just not as hard as NMC 😉

@WillProwse 18 күн бұрын

Similar to plaid pack charge curve. Not bad. Less peak but stays strong till 40%. Really awesome considering it's LFP. Nice data

@SpencerPOsborn 18 күн бұрын

Haha interesting that my favorite solar channel crosses paths with my favorite EV channel.

@erikkuhlemeyer9402 17 күн бұрын

@@SpencerPOsbornright! That’s what I thought

@rcpmac Күн бұрын

Hey Will! Good to see you here.

@jambaman916 18 күн бұрын

I had a mobile tech worker told me that all Gen2 large packs are software locked MAX packs. He said it's easier on Rivian on making just 2 batteries, LFP and MAX and controlling it through software, rather than build a different pack for all different sizes. Which makes sense to me. But who knows, but I do think this makes the most sense.

@battousaihimura 18 күн бұрын

@jambaman916 maybe at launch, but soon it will be just lesser modules. Rivian isn't just gonna carry on adding deadweight modules at a premium for them. It worked for Gen1 Standard+, speaking of which, that would be the best Nickel based pack that would really outlast it's large/max siblings

@pennyharris446 17 күн бұрын

My dream garage includes a Rivian R2.

@rcpmac Күн бұрын

I also reserved one 30 minutes into Rivian’s reveal

@supergeek02468 17 күн бұрын

From the TeslaFi/RivianFi graph we can see approximate charge times 6:59 : 0-50% - 23 minutes 0-80% - 35 minutes

@GraysonCarr 17 күн бұрын

The 0-70 (probably similar to 0-80) seems like about 30 minutes. The 0-50 looks more like 19 minutes to me?

@supergeek02468 17 күн бұрын

⁠@@GraysonCarrthe timestamp is 6:59 . We only have 40% and 80% scale bars, so 70 was a bit hard to approximate

@hzy1234 18 күн бұрын

Chris the MVP.

@keithmcdonnell4485 18 күн бұрын

Thumbs up to Chris!

@davidbaker9943 17 күн бұрын

Thanks to everyone especially Chris! I’ve been waiting for this information and so far it’s looking good.

@ChaimLoecher 18 күн бұрын

I love how Rivian gets the benefit of the doubt - "good for a first version, lets see what a future update does"

@justinswaagman2518 18 күн бұрын

Really excited you shared this. Cant wait for even more tests once you get your hands on one of these. Thanks Chris, Branden, and Kyle!

@berthogendoorn2133 18 күн бұрын

Thanks Chris, your efforts are very much appreciated!

@iamnid 18 күн бұрын

Thanks! I've been waiting for this video. EDIT: I can't wait until you get an R1S LFP to run through all of the standard tests. I think it's the one I'm going to buy in the next few months.

@Goldencored 18 күн бұрын

Kyle, please tell us about new Rivian’s heat pump design

@hcjpbluesky9916 16 күн бұрын

Winter performance, especially if charging after leaving a hotel, will be worse with LFP. Slower when cold, even if it doesn't have to furiously cool itself between charging stops when hot.

@2020PorscheTaycan4S 18 күн бұрын

Great video by the way! One of my favorite cars and EVs in the trim I’d choose it in with the lfp battery pack.

@itsajeepthing82 16 күн бұрын

Thanks Chris hope to see more of your R1S . I have a standard pack on order as well Cant wait to see a standard pack run the Rustic Ring

@wtmayhew 17 күн бұрын

Thank you. It is great to see Rivian making good vehicles and adopting new technology quickly for being such a young company. I still don’t like Rivian and Tesla releasing semi beta products for sale, though Rivan vehicles seem less beta than a typical new Tesla product. I can somewhat forgive the LFP battery situation because crowd sourced data is instrumental to fine tune the charging curve.

@steve304 18 күн бұрын

IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THISSS!!

@pauld6967 17 күн бұрын

Thanks Chris for helping.

@ahbushnell1 18 күн бұрын

The other reason to go to full charge is for cell balancing. Because the battery is flat it's hard to tell if a cell is out of balance unless you go to a high state of charge.

@jollygreen4662 17 күн бұрын

I wanna see a 400 mile LFP

@rcpmac Күн бұрын

Why not 600 or 800??? What a strange thing this crazy and useless range comparison is.

@jollygreen4662 Күн бұрын

@@rcpmac that will be 30 years form now. I wanna see something in under 5 yrs from now

@cyco1978 18 күн бұрын

Do you recommend LFP in colder climates, they tend to have more issue charging. According to that battery video from batteries included

@MichaelEricMenk Күн бұрын

This is not a problem as long as the car has a battery heater and you precondition the battery before fast charging.. LiFePo4 batteries can charge with negative battery temperature, but at very low C-rate.

@i1chy 17 күн бұрын

I have to agree with Tom. I own an older Philips with the same saeco internals. Not a bad machine but it only grinds around 10 grams each time, which tends to create a lighter coffee. Plus, the saeco internals are fussy and will require regular maintenance with disassembly, cleaning and silicon grease. Other that, if you do that they will last with a few silicone o ring replacements from time to time.

@Mathingon 18 күн бұрын

Hell yes! Was hoping you would find a way to do this! Can we expect a range test as well? I want to know all the nerdy details so I can decide if I really need the large pack or if standard is best for my use case.

@boilerdown1 18 күн бұрын

This is so cool that @brandenflasch was able to provide such high resolution data on the charging curve! I hope that you will be able to get this level of detail in the future.

@davidmenasco5743 17 күн бұрын

It's nice, in the sea of "hot takes" and random junk that KZfaq throws at you, to get some actual data and meaningful information. LFP Rivian is where it's at.

@darinbrazil5496 12 күн бұрын

Really wish Kyle would get an interview with the Rivian battery team and really ask why their charging speeds are so slow compared to others, what has to change and why it hasn't changed and why such a large battery has such a slow charging rate when we know its possible to charge large batteries faster?

@RebelRanger2009 17 күн бұрын

Thank you Chris! ❤

@AnthonyNardozza 16 күн бұрын

Side note, that Portland charging station looks amazing, pull through spots, totally hitting it up next trip there.

@bjackson1975 17 күн бұрын

The content we need!

@Drewcardello 17 күн бұрын

Looks like Ford's f150 lightning battery technology is aging..

@privettoli 17 күн бұрын

My ID.4 battery is on the contrary always heating in the winter. Does it mean that this battery would require more heating in the winter compared to regular?

@DroneManMurphy 17 күн бұрын

I’m curious how efficient it would be if the hall was the outside space in the middle of winter with the temperature say around 30°F? 🙋

@samatwesu 18 күн бұрын

Time to get all the nerdy info on what this can do at the plug.

@Eric-xp1kl 17 күн бұрын

I have a PDM Max pack which has been great, performance-wise. 92 kWh usable in the LFP...so maybe 101 miles pulling my camper...that's a NOOOOO Thank you. But for many, this will be a great option.

@Goosekovski 18 күн бұрын

I can’t wait to see the towing performance. Not the extreme max load, the normal/everyday type loads. My bay boat on trailer come to right under 3000lbs fully loaded.

17 күн бұрын

I agree this is the one to get..., the dual motor with the base LFP battery.. similar to the Tesla model 3 LFP ..I road tripped this past June over 4,500 miles..

@nicholaskolnik6458 18 күн бұрын

Will the BMS on a LFP battery get confused on a road trip with 6-10 charge stops if you keep the battery between 10%-80%? Fully calibrated when you start. If the BMS gets confused, then will that cause issues charging?

@GraysonCarr 17 күн бұрын

I’ve been on five 800-1600 mile road trips in my Model 3 LFP. Haven’t noticed it becoming confused. I have pulled in to charge with 3-6% five times and haven’t run out of battery, but I usually shoot for 10%, and often end up arriving with closer to 15%.

@sedawk 18 күн бұрын

Very curious to see what the 20% to 80% would be in terms of time. I'm guessing 30 min?

@mp3mike237 18 күн бұрын

Spreadsheet is linked in the video description. Looks like 20-80% was ~32 minutes.

@sedawk 18 күн бұрын

@@mp3mike237 Thanks. My Lightning is about 40 min for that same range - not bad. I've taken it on a few road trips and it does slow down your pace a little (but its comfort makes up for it). An ideal situation I think would be 20% to 80% in 20 minutes or less. Perhaps we will get there one day, but even with the slower charging of these trucks road trips are totally doable.

@LemonSanitizer 17 күн бұрын

Nice data! Where'd the Tableau go off to?

@bob15479 12 күн бұрын

this battery will last FOREVER. LFP is going to get an AMAZING reputation in the long run.

@ikocheratcr 17 күн бұрын

kudos to the people that extracted the data provided in the spreadsheet. Out of curiosity, was it done manually?

@marcusbeckmann9665 17 күн бұрын

THX and best regards from Germany (Munich). I love your videos and watch most of them. And no, I don´t have a BMW, but IONIQ 5 😄

@user-fo6ll8kk2y 17 күн бұрын

Hey, Kyle. Love your content. I’ve learned so much watching your videos. I’m definitely an EV nerd. I own a 2023 Tesla Model 3 with an LFP battery. I know you have talked about how you keep your EVs charged between 30-50%. I wish I could do that with my car, but I’m constantly bugged by Tesla to charge it to 100% once a week. I hate doing it (I’d rather charge to 80% and run it down to 20%), but I feel like I have to to keep my BMS happy. If you owned an EV with an LFP battery, how would you charge it? I daily drive it and charge it once a week to 100% (it finishes charging minutes before I jump in it to drive to work). Just an aside, I know estimated full-charge mileage is not a great indicator of degradation, but I’ve gone from 272 to 260 miles in 17,000 miles.

@BrandonKipp 13 күн бұрын

LFP seems super resilient - I have a 2022 Model 3 LFP with just shy of 100k miles - 25% AC charged and 75% DC charged, always to 100% SoC. Full charge range shows 256 miles, and when doing a proper capacity test, I measured about 4.3% degradation. I personally used to be a total nerd when it came to charging - when I had NMC EVs I’d always keep them between 30-50% SoC and would baby them as much as possible, but with this Model 3, I just do whatever I want and the car holds up.

@MrrQuackers 13 күн бұрын

Would've liked to see graphs compared to the large and max packs offered.

@JeffWusch 17 күн бұрын

Thx Chris

@chengcao418 17 күн бұрын

Do we have information on whether this is a CATL or BYD or someone else?

@4literv6 17 күн бұрын

Bet anything it's catl prismatic lfp cells. Some tried to suggest it's using gotion cells form the California plant that opened last year. 🤔

@chengcao418 17 күн бұрын

@@4literv6 would be interesting to see whether they changed cooling strategy or not, those cells are really tall and if they still use bottom plate cooling I'd be worried about overheating on road trips

@chengcao418 17 күн бұрын

We have Hyperchargers in the US now! Which CPO is this

@DblOSmith 18 күн бұрын

what!? Electric island is open? Last i was in Portland, i couldnt find it!

@football0552 18 күн бұрын

Kyle could you share the spreadsheet or what the 10-80% was on this software version? The video cut off the time column.

@mp3mike237 18 күн бұрын

Spreadsheet is linked in the video description. Looks like 10-80% was ~35 minutes.

@football0552 18 күн бұрын

@@mp3mike237 oops. My bad. Thanks!

@sandyhunter3948 16 күн бұрын

What does the discharge cycle voltage chart look like

@miami3863 4 күн бұрын

Does the gen 2 charge port look like it can be removed and possibly swapped for NACS?

@brandenflasch 18 күн бұрын

Really not bad as a starting point! Looking forward to coming improvements.

@2020PorscheTaycan4S 18 күн бұрын

How is that same bot coming back and commenting even after outofspec blocked it.

@2020PorscheTaycan4S 18 күн бұрын

Probably the most annoying bot on KZfaq ever.

@Yanquetino 17 күн бұрын

If I'm reading the graph correctly, even though the charge starts at around 200kW, it looks like it drops to only 50kW by the time you hit 80%. Don't E-GMP models retain double that rate at 80%?

@junkerzn7312 18 күн бұрын

Huh. 1.25 hours empty to full is just 1.25C. The internal resistance for LFP cells tends to be lower than for NMC cells, (roughly 0.10 to 0.20 mOhm vs 0.50 to 0.80 mOhm) so I wouldn't expect the battery pack to actually heat up that much during charging. They are clearly being ultra conservative on the charging curve. A LFP battery should be able to take 1C or higher charging up past 90%. It could end up being just a cabling limitation. -Matt

@tooltalk 7 күн бұрын

that's 1hour 25min or ~1.5C. Further why compare LFP against NCM? Rivian uses NCA from Samsung SDI, not NCM.

@junkerzn7312 7 күн бұрын

@@tooltalk I wouldn't touch NCA if my life depended on it. In terms of volatility and fire hazard, LiFePO4 (LFP) is the safest, then NMC, and the absolute highest energy density but also the most dangerous is NCA. I personally prefer LFP despite the lower energy density because the cells basically don't wear out, don't catch on fire, and are extremely robust in general.

@tooltalk 7 күн бұрын

@@junkerzn7312 All lithium ion batteries, including LFP, are combustible. LFP has higher TR (thermal runaway) threshold, but all it means is that it requires a bit more work (or energy) to catch fire. And when it does catch fire, it spreads faster and it is potentially more dangerous due to hydrogen gas produced. Further, LFP's degradation mechanism depends on application -- LFP's durability is optimal under ESS (stationary energy storage system), but not so in EV (moving vehicles). That's also why LFP is almost exclusively deployed in entry-level, low-range EVs.

@junkerzn7312 7 күн бұрын

@@tooltalk LFP's thermal run away not only has a higher threshold, it also has 1/100th the thermal gradient of NMC during a runaway. And unlike NMC and NCA, the voltage more or less instantly relaxes after charging is complete. The differences are literally night and day. LFPs degradation mechanism has little to do with stationary-vs-EV. Not sure why you think it would. The average C-rate is comparable and as I mentioned at the top, LFP batteries don't generally have much of a problem with temperature or C-rate stresses. The reason EVs (up until recently) used NMC is simply due to the higher energy density. Not the degradation or anything else. But LFP chemistries are fast catching up in energy density and customers are starting to prefer them for safety and longevity over NMC, despite the lower range. -Matt

@daemonthenoob 15 күн бұрын

I really want to see standard r1t but r1s lfp full range test. Really looking at lease an r1t later in the year and coming from a 2022 p2 long range lease, and so far looks like lfp will have better range, faster charging, tesla network, and about the same performance with better utility

@ayushmalpeddi2793 16 күн бұрын

Large Pack is a software locked Max Pack. Thats why Rivian claims it takes a shorter time to charge the Large Pack compared to 41min for the Max to go from 10-80

@Jordan_Schiefer 5 күн бұрын

Where’s the other 2 hours of this video?

@EdwardBoicourtIV 17 күн бұрын

16:11 🙏🏾 PLEASE let it be the avant based on the taycan wagon!

@user-yn5sk5ru5g 17 күн бұрын

There will be an A6 Avant e-tron on the PPE platform, dont think the e-tron GT Avant is going to happen

@EdwardBoicourtIV 17 күн бұрын

@@user-yn5sk5ru5g I hope you're wrong lol. Honestly whatever platform they use it can't come soon enough.

@privettoli 17 күн бұрын

Makes total sense: why wait for the update and make one video if you can do two videos? 💲💲💲😂

@ezpoppy55 17 күн бұрын

Why wait for just one update? Using your logic, it makes more sense to just wait until Rivian pushes out the last update on the battery pack. Sure, it might be a few years, but then you only have one video to watch. Genius 🤭.

@privettoli 17 күн бұрын

@@ezpoppy55 I'm joking

@briane221974 17 күн бұрын

150 miles of range in 22 minutes, or roughly 2 hours of driving at 75 mph 150 miles / 270 miles of range = 55% of the battery Charging 10% to 65% took ~22 minutes If the battery is roughly 100 kWh, that's 55 kWh for 150 miles, or 2.7272 mi/kWh, or 366.66 Wh/mi, which seems doable at 75 mph? Could be a fairly quick road tripper if those stats hold up, and very close to what my Model Y does, although the Rivian would consume more power therefore cost a bit extra.

@Swapnil638 17 күн бұрын

Video title doesn’t mention Gen 2

@speer320 17 күн бұрын

Need an Electric island tour!

@timoliver8940 17 күн бұрын

With CPO’s now looking at excess stay charges for charging above 85% this calibration to 100% is going to become expensive on a DCFC if you also recommend that the car isn’t left standing for any time at very high and very low SOC and might happen on a home charger utilizing off peak electricity rates. Maybe LFP isn’t the answer after all.

@IrenESorius 18 күн бұрын

LFP is the future,, 💖🥰💖

@boostav 18 күн бұрын

13:55 No, you shouldn't. Leaving it at 100% has nothing to do with cyclic degradation, it's about calendar degradation and LFP ages much like the high nickel chemistries at those high SOCs.

@football0552 18 күн бұрын

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hMimipaFsc_eno0.htmlsi=a3DZUfAIP5d1qmM0&t=1254

@kevingodwinschannel5340 17 күн бұрын

I literally know where this exactly is. I used to live in the apartments across from the us bank.

@j4k3br4k3 18 күн бұрын

Large pack is probably LMFP

@gmv0553 16 күн бұрын

I see that the Hummer pickup outsold the Rivian pickup in the second quarter! Not good for Rivian!

@simson4t 18 күн бұрын

A6 etron is coming.

@battousaihimura 18 күн бұрын

9:25 LFP or NCA in EVs usually will have some bottom buffer by the BMS. Most, if not all, OEMs do this to avoid deep discharge. Whereas they differ in the top SoC near 100%. Also, if you want good charging performance to 80%, charge from 10%, not from close to 0/1%, as that 1 to 10% adds to the thermal buildup early on, dropping the charge curve prematurely. Remember, these cells are tall with bottom cooling and high current loading when their SoC is low, so a high thermal gradient buildup occurs. So, don't expect the delta 70% (10 to 80%) time to meet the OEM-quoted time when you start from 1%.

@bwmanarific 17 күн бұрын

Charging from low state is just to show how longest case the charge is gonna be. If you start charging from a higher SOC the charge time of course is gonna be shorter 😅

@svenbeckers2908 18 күн бұрын

Very interesting. Thanks 👍🏼

@MinhNguyen-bz2pd 17 күн бұрын

After getting my NCA pack replaced with an LFP pack under warranty by Tesla at 20k miles. Yes 20k miles. Im swearing will never buy anything but LFP. 😂

@leebacon3432 17 күн бұрын

Kyle I dbl dawg dare u to wear sumthin other than a long sleeve hoodie!

@jaymacpherson8167 17 күн бұрын

Elefpee? LiFePO4 pronounced “le fepo fore,” right? (Sounds French, ewww) Omitting the O from the name seems criminal given our dependence on the atom for….life. And yes Fe and P are essential elements, tho we can last longer than 5 to 6 minutes without them. Thx Chris.

@evkx 17 күн бұрын

For Chris who ventured, bold and bright, To test the Rivian's steady flight, With cells of LFP aligned, You chased the charge curve, well-defined. In labs where science met the spark, You lit the way through shadows dark. Each volt, each amp, a tale to tell, Of greener roads, where futures dwell. Your graphs and data, clear and true, Unveiled a world both fresh and new. A battery's heart, so strong and kind, In Rivian's craft, we all could find. From zero charge to full array, You mapped the path where hope can play. A testament to what can be, When vision shapes reality. In circuits hum, and software's song, You forged a path where we belong. A cleaner earth, a brighter day, Through tests you ran, we found our way. So here’s to Chris, who dared to trace, The charge that made the world a place, Of endless drive and boundless grace, A better world for every race.

@grapsorz 18 күн бұрын

how can you recommend this without knowing the -20c to -30c usage experience? we had cars not manage to charge "at all" last winter as they had a bad battery heater system.