Oh my god, you're right

Nah. Tywin would of feared him as surely as everyone else did.

Tywin: "What makes a great king?" Octavian: "Getting rid of a useless grandfather."

Octavian is the politician that every character in GoT could ever aspire to be. He doesn't need cruelty or to be a great warrior in order to gain power in it's true form. He strike from the shadow .... Cunning and manipulative but is still being perceived as a literal Living God by the people.

WOW very well said!

Happyfunrun Well, before the dragons come, that is.

Octavian would position himself in a way that Daenerys would have no option but to marry him, like he forced Mark Anthony to leave.

Octavian would annihilate the big players in AGOT, only baelish and varys have the political savvy and intelligence to meet him on the political battlefield, and even then they lack the force to back themselves up.

I'd say that Tywin and Tyrion would prove to be difficult to deal with, even for Octavian. But I wouldn't be surprised if he finds a way to outmaneuver them. In terms of wits and forces at their disposal they are all matched, but Octavian has a key advantage: charisma. People would side with him.

Gus Villa Perhaps. But Octavian is a skilled manipulator and both Tyrion and Tywin (while both very intelligent and politically savvy) have serious character flaws that he'd exploit.

And it's was real history that taught to leaders of the world.

Pretty much GOT without the magic, the dragons and it's perfect.

And, thankfully, w/o the series ruining ending.

Its the same production team

Not only Rome... still cant believe there are 8 seasons of GoT, but no good show about Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire, which was one fu*king big Game of Thrones whole time.

@cornelius washington she forgot he was Caesar's son first

@cornelius washington well said

I don't like Octavian. He is very exesive and so cold...

He got that from Julius. He got Ptolemy XIII to be quiet.

@@MAwwwww11 good

If you know what happens next, Livia is the monster.

@@rory7590 *Scheming to get Tiberius into power intensifies*

@@rory7590 Explain to me why please, I want to know

@@GAPLATER she plotted to kill several capable relatives of Octavian/Augustus until he had no choice left but to make Tiberius, her son, into his heir

she's into that shit clearly

Although to be fair Atia becomes a lot more likeable in the 2nd season compared to the 1st. I think that's partly due to other female characters (like Servilla) really lowering the bar for morals, but I liked Atia and Anthony as a couple in this show and even sympathized with her in the end when Anthony dumped her for Cleopatra and wouldn't even grant her an audience in Egypt (used as a bargaining chip and humiliated). All of this after in the first season my opinion of her was pretty much "cold hearted greedy manipulative bitch", and I think even the way in which her character evolved is reflective of the great writing quality of this show.

@@Vict0r1984 she deserves everything she's got, she was a horrible mother and a stupid lover, even after everything anthony did she still "blamed" her son, she let her lover beat up her own son, that's just messed up.

@@Archonsx My memory of the show is a bit fuzzy given that I finished watching it about an year ago, but if I remember correctly she actually tried to make Octavian's alliance with Antonius work and did not support Octavian more overtly also because she feared he would lose a war against the former, so she obviously cared about her son in her own way. Secondly, I think you misunderstood my argument - I wasn't saying Atia was a "great mother" or morally upstanding by our contemporary standards (if you judge them by that 90% of ancient Romans would look like unstable egotistical maniacs, most of all the male patricians and generals who made most decisions), but that she was a likeable character. Likeable does not in any way equal moral or dutiful - series aren't real life and often times a character's unique personality will bring life to a show and offer the audience a great window into an otherwise alien mindset, and I will often like such characters due to the value they bring to the story and their unique traits even if they happen to be cold blooded serial killers. Of course it is anyone's subjective opinion what characters they like based on demeanour/personality/political views etc, but what I'm saying is that I don't judge characters in a story solely based on morals (especially modern ones in a historic setting). Also, very moral characters, if they do not have other saving graces, tend to be far less complex than Atia and therefore more boring and worse. I find most "great mothers", "incorruptible officials", "loyal soldiers" and other dutiful character tropes to be far worse characters than Atia for example, as they are far less fleshed out by the writers, and I was glad this show tried to portray Rome as close to how vulgar, pragmatic, dangerous and largely morally-vacuous it really was and did not implement almost any of the aforementioned clichés or morally sanitize characters for the eyes of a modern audience. Another show that did this very well in my opinion - portray historical societies as close to reality as possible as opposed to making them more palatable to modern tastes - is "Borgia: faith and fear" by Canal+ and Sky Italia. It's in English, has three seasons and is much better than the American-produced "The Borgias", and I recommend it to you if you're also an avid history lover like myself. Finally, of course you are entitled to your own opinion about Atia and we can just respectfully disagree - cinema is art after all and there is no universal right or wrong in art...

YO AR MA DOTHA! YOU WILL DO AS I COMMAND AND YOU WILL MARRY GAIU OCTAVIAN CAESAR!

@@doesnotreallymatterr a fine match, are they not?

lmfao

She was a Claudian, she would be used to it. They were known as being either the best of the Romans or the worst of them. Plus, she was willing to divorce her husband to marry up (although she made sure that HER son, not his, took over the family business). Just as shark-like as Octavian, if not ultimately more so.

Power move

Liva was pretty cutthroat herself. Watch "I Claudius".

@Junius Argonon I guess the answer to that would depend on how many of the rumours about her are true and how much is false.

+Quakekill the interrogation scene from Chris Nolan's Batman films-"You have NOTHING to threaten me with! Nothing to do with all you're strength!"

That snicker at 3:21

but that was manlove.

I think the implication is that her sexual freedom will be restricted moreso than anything else. She’s an unmarried woman and relies on her sordid affairs for male company. With the guards and spies around, men won’t be able to come in and out like they did before.

well said 👏@@nickimillennium

She's constantly attending parties and she joined Anthony in his military camp far from home.

Wrong invite him and watch everything burn

He'll invite himself, though.

Or Caligula, who disappeared with the guests’ wives during dinners.

Livia was the greatest victim of the series premature ending. She was a skilled politician and a perfect parntner for Octavian. She could be one of the best characters.

@pyropulse fake news

@@joshuec6683 HE WAS A CONSUL OF RO- oh wrong subject

Eyre Borne That channel is a bad joke lol

@@dylans3833 a good* joke. but still a joke

Daniel Ryan I wouldn't be a good dad if I didn't teach my daughter how to please her husband.

+Daniel Ryan Another fun story: One day Augustus went to dine at someone's house that was a newish acquaintance, the person served him sardines to which he said "I had no idea we were such good friends".

+Andrew M The Roman Empire-one of the most wide open and permissive societies ever, yet also one of the most prudish and judgmental

+Daniel Ryan yeah it was in ancient Rome, they were pawns at best in a vast political game,pawns at best,Roman marriages were broken/annulled at a dizzying speed.

+Daniel Ryan sounds familiar

He should've done GOT.

tyro apache he would’ve played a perfect Joffrey, a perfect Jaime, even Littlefinger (if aged a little bit)

@@keitht24 Several actors who were in Rome stated they would refuse work in GOT after Rome was cancelled as it was. They felt fairly hard done by.

@@jayd8091 And the ones who did... I can't believe how they portrayed Edmure Tully.

@@JLucas_RS Edmure is a bitch in the books too.

He almost cries there lol

Brawn vs. Brain

Gregory Smith he was 77 years old which was actually an long old age back then.

its a long old age now, "back then" wasn't so long ago,concerning the big picture.

"The true mark of supreme excellence is crushing your enemy's resolve without fighting." - Sun Tzu

It's glorious and no, I don't feel bad for him. He got owned.

I prefer Mark Anthony to Octavian. Octavian is cold and strange (sexually of course 😂) and Mark Anthony is very funny!

Mark Antony was vain and cruel. He's an enjoyable character but I can never feel sorry for him

He got outwitted by Octavian. Brains always truimphs over brawn.

@@MAwwwww11 so is Trump but that does not make them good politicians. Anthony withheld the grain supply and starved his own people just to get back at Octavian. That's pretty low on my scale. No so funny.

Simon Woods. He played Mr Bingley in Pride and Prejudice opposite his ex girlfriend Rosamund Pike who portrayed Jane Bennett.

Like many liberals Soyboy

@@charlesferdinand422 snowflake.

@Viking Song snowflake.

Abigail Sockeye - and "pleb"

@@BoxStudioExecutive The whole Red State vs Blue State is inaccurate though. You should go by county.

Gabriel Hoffman o

this is what made GoT possible as HBO realized the mistake in ending the series so they started looking for something else hence GoT.

I would say the scene where Tywin announces the Lannister marriages or really any scene with him in it is on par with this

Rome was way ahead of its time

Why do u say that

Agrippa was quite influential in Roman politics irl. He used to rule given provinces via proxy while remaining in the place he seemed surrounded by his loyal people and influence. He also worked as a bridge of "Secret Alliance " between Rome and other warrring states. Not to mention his children’s were quite active in Roman politics and many his descendants ruled Roman as Emperor. For his loyalty Augustus irl gave a massive lavish funeral to Agrippa also saw to his Children's education and made his grandson heir to the throne of Rome 😍😍

Those 2 literally formed a empire octavian the politician agripa the solider

Agrippa and Augustus were literally perfect for each other as a duo

Rome is an empire forged by bromance.

Very true. He knew he had to embody a firm but just patriarch to thrive in such a circumstance. Octavian also wanted the legacy of Julius Caesar to continue and understood Roman politics were incredibly brutal, he had to become strong.

There's only the appearance that you have ever really had a friend. Here and now there is no such thing. Unheard of around these parts, at least for now. The more friends you "have" the more diluted you are, not to mention gullible and foolish. I see and hear average folks talk about how this guy is my best friend, my best broski or some crap and a few weeks later that friend takes off disappears hardly saying goodbye. Nor does he care. Then the dipshit finds some new best friends, and the new ones care even less. Probably they secretly hate him. But the guy thinks he has a clique or an entourage. They don't give a hoot about you. All you see is surface. Nothing is more annoying than Logan Paul's whose friends are mocking him and using him as a publicity stunt. Its fine to be an extrovert, but people need to find themselves first. It's your own fault because you're easily hustled.

To be fair. Livia did wanted to marry Octavian. She and her husband hated each other due to their marriage being political in nature. Her husband was more than happy to "sell" her to Octavian in exchange for money and sponsorship in his political career - which he got.

If there was one more season i believe they could've really highlighted the importance of Agrippa

Agreed. Budgetary constraints plus being ahead of your time is not great position to be in.

The show was originally envisioned to be five seasons but its massive budget was too much for HBO to handle at the time and so season two was hastily re-written to conclude the series. In actuality, season three was supposed to be where the alliance between Mark Antony and Octavian fell apart.

The show was sadly rushed and under funded for all of it's ambition. Truly it could've been one of the greatest TV series to ever grace the screen but it was not to be.

@Kira 'gave him the credit' Historically it was the other way around. He took the credit for the victories Agrippa won in Octavians name. Octavian would never have been capable of keeping his power were it not for him, as however cunning he was when it came to the power game, Octavian was a terrible military commander who almost ran the nation into the ground fielding exhausted armies only to lose them against his political enemies.

Jem Johnson He’d be the son Tywin always wanted

j_sia We can only hope he would’ve castrated Jeoffery and not shit on Tyrion

Well, the real Octavian was not known to be cruel and he meted out justice as it was deserved, so maybe he'd let Tyrion be and chop Joffrey's balls off. Joffrey would be allowed to live, but with no family jewels.

@@squamish4244 So Octavian was both righteous and a realist. Go figure.

Damn right. Shows you can be both. I can use Octavian as an example to anyone who calls me a 'libtard' lol

Yes:) exactly 19.08.0014 ! BTW -as far as disgrace and family matters - it was Julia, Octavian's daughter, who had a relationship with Anthony's son Iulius Antonius who was already a husband to Octavia 's first daughter, Claudia. Octavian could not withstand such dishonor so he made Iulius commit suicide and send his only daughter to exile (Tiberius made her starve to death later!).

+Isabella H even though he disapproved of Ovids poetry he never censored him,but at the same time he sent Julia into exile he called Ovid in and interrogated him himself, no1 knows what was said only that afterwards Ovid was sent to the Danube.

+Isabella H yes and while Augustus was alive she had proper food,furnishings, clothes sent to Julia. When he died she ordered them all returned.

Fuck, I wish I could thumb this up exactly at that comment's post.

i doubt he is dead as after 2000 years u also know who he is

He was more Caesar than Caesar in that moment. He owned them.

Best part

Finrod Felagund yeah honestly

Octavia was smiling at the end becsuse now she can be with Agrippa

@@emeraldruby3942 In real life Agrippa married Octavias daughter.

She was a great empress.

Lies she killed all of Augustus heirs also so she could make her depressed and cynical son Tiberius the heir List of her victims Marcellus (octavia’s son) Lucius,Gaius and Postumus (Augustus and Agrippas Grandsons) Germanicus (her own grandson)

"built the true empire" is an insult. Rome was the greatest nation when it was a REPUBLIC...the empire was a joke that went too far.

@@dewok2706 Incorrect. The Republic was weak and corrupted.

@@Jg-jg6jb I don't care.

@@dewok2706 😂😂 republic more like bunch of corrupt senators

​@@dewok2706 Republic would be collapsed without a strong hand monarch(=permanent civil war, corruption, bad public safety(pirates abducted people and sold them as slaves etc.).

Petter Svenson lol

Well, Octavian literally was Palapatine. He fought Antony under the guise of "saving the republic" and ultimately destroyed it.

Tim D. Except Sheev was a bitch. Augustus brought about 200 years of relative peace. Sheev couldn't handle a farmboy and some space teddybears.

in anutshell yup .the mobb ( the people of rome ) would have torn him limb from limb .

wrong timmy, palpatine was octavia. Its just to show how manipulative genius octavia was.

+Agent1W It's pretty much true though.

Agent1W Do you want to kill me?

hahah, age of empire 2, Master of the templar quotes

I was half-expecting (jokingly, of course) for Augustus to whisper: Dew it!

With Education I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine

He was really humble and cool...I enjoyed him..

Agrippa was the definition of gigachad in real life

He was an absolute monster on the field. Octavian never becomes Augustus without him.

And then he married Octavian's daughter. Though, to be fair, this was arranged by Octavian in order to neutralize Agrippa as a potential rival without having to kill him.

''Agrippa had in every way clearly shown himself the noblest of the men of his day and had used the friendship of Agustus with a view to the greatest advantage both of the emperor himself and of the Commonwealth.'' Cassius Dio, Roman History 54.29.1 "He was a man of distinguished character, unqongurqble by toil, loss of sleep or danger, well disciplined in obedience, but to one man alone, yet eager to command others; in whatever he did he knew no such thing as delay, but with him action went hand in hand with conception." Velleius Paterculus, on Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa

Lmao you stupid 😂😂😂

She really had no idea who she raised to a great extent... she really underestimated him....she did herself in ...in the long game...

He was grown and the head of the family

@@mysteryjunkie9808 When he came of age, she really didn't need Antony anymore.

As Joffery killed Ned Stark, Cersei could not control her child for the first time, but unlike Octavian, he used his power for the Glory and Prosperity of Rome and her people.

Certainly in kings landing where politics and subterfuge reigns supreme, hard to say how he would have fared against the fantasy elements threatening him.

Crazy Smart!

Crazy like a fox. Octavian was an incredibly shrewd operator.

Why would you want to crush your enemies with an army when you can crush them with your mind?

Anthony met justice in the face

My headcanon is that Rome is just a prequel to I’Claudius

Kedbuka not exactly weak, but one of Octavian's few genuine friends with a guilty conscience.

Because subordinates need to be kept in line.

Agrippa is probably the poorest represented character on the show, historically. He was easily Augustus's most capable strong arm and built many of the successes Augustus is credited with. He's the reason the third Herod in the bible is name Herod Agrippa, because he was famous throughout the eastern Roman empire for his capability. He wasn't knee deep in intrigue, sometimes people are too honorable to be about that life. He was a workhorse and his rule was much appreciated and effective.

Do you notice how Octavian's rage was almost all directed at 1) Antony, 2) Octavia, and 3) his mother? He barely even looked in Agrippa's direction.

Sean Simpson the show portraying Cicero as an opportunistic, sniveling coward is a bigger historical offense imo

He kicked Antony's ass in the Battle of Actium and sent him crying to Egypt. That was more than enough.

Agrippa was quite influential in Roman politics irl. He used to rule given provinces via proxy while remaining in the place he seemed surrounded by his loyal people and influence. He also worked as a bridge of "Secret Alliance " between Rome and other warrring states. Not to mention his children’s were quite active in Roman politics and many his descendants ruled Roman as Emperor. For his loyalty Augustus irl gave a massive lavish funeral to Agrippa also saw to his Children's education and made his grandson heir to the throne of Rome 😍😍

He would win the GoT and he would kill Palpatine the way he acts

Not really, Sith are known for embracing passion and emotion while Octavian is all about pragmatism. The actor would probably be great though just not the character.

@@X3105i He would dominate the show, but the books have some really intelligent schemers who would make hard competition.

A SITH LORD!?

Goals before holes

Blessed was an excellent actor, of course, but as Emperor he was such a daddy-like nice chap outmaneuvered by Livia. Now we see how Octavian became Augustus. The same Burton as Antony in "Cleopatra", in his sexy mini now looks a bit funny in comparison to Purefoy. I appreciate old movies enormously but they do not provide this touch of authenticity that we can admire in ROME. It's just my opinion. Woods was so great as Octavian. This is really annoying when good actor do not appear on the screen and we still see have plenty of people who are promoted and do not deserve this.

patriotpride16t Max Pirkis was also very good as teen Octavian in Season 1.

+Isabella H I like him aswell but for me its Roddy McDowell, Jesus the menace of that guy,love that version of Octavian. "WHERE IS EGYPT...SHOW ME..WHERE IS EGYPT".

Max was great. I almost wish they post poned season 2 a couple years to have him continue the role. Woods did a great job, but something about his portrayal made him unlikeable to me (which could be a good thing if thats what they were going for). Pirkis take he pulled off the cold and calculating, but you could root for him.

Saying that with authority is the power of emperor.

I have yet to be disappointed by an actor playing OAC,but my personal favorite is Roddy McDowell, he captures the sheer coldness and brutality if him perfectly in those early years before the defeat of Antony.

By the way, Caesar Octavian, have you borrowed (as dear Antony already mentioned ;) the glory of others and my picture taken of your statue? Admiring you, divine Augustus, I can see the striking resemblance to the pix the minute 7:06 in one of my little YTfilms. No offence;))

Isabella H 7. 06 in this movie???? Of course Octavian borrowed the glory of others,Agrippa did most of the fighting.

lyon laurent So was octavian.

MrAwrsomeness yeah? i haven't read any descriptions of him

lyon laurent upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/Augustus_Bevilacqua_Glyptothek_Munich_317.jpg He also slept with loads of woman, Mark Anthony in a real letter to Augustus suspected by the time his letter arrived to him he would have slept with half the female Roman nobles.

+MrAwrsomeness Not bad, he must have been a babe :P

lyon laurent upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/Statue-Augustus.jpg Thats the more known statue you can just feel the glory.

It had to be done. Not really like he had the best relationship with them anyways

There are other very good ones: Les Miserables (2000) L'homme qui rit (1971) War and peace (2007 and 2016)

Im a adult and liked both .. but then again, check out my last name

subsidia learn English fool

Yeah people give Augustus a lot of shit but the man was a genius and brought on the right people to make him look good if nothing else. There's talent in that.

Lmao

No no no no, never "imperator", always "priceps" or "first among equals".

Then why aren't emperors called princeps, eh?

FlyingTheDutchman Because Octavian was a master of public relations. He knew that maintaining the facade of the Republic would keep him in the goodwill of the Senate (which was made up of very rich and powerful men who could still cause trouble if they wanted to) and the people of Rome. He was basically emperor in everything but name only.

112steinway He took the title, "The First Among Equals"

Porterhouse They were. In this day and age we call them Emperors, but back then they were not seen as Emperors. Given the strong Roman hatred of monarchy, and faith in its republic, taking an authoritarian title, such as "King" or "Emperor", would have been political suicide.

Yeah, but Antony's great-grandson would become Zeus himself.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Say's anybody with a rotten soul, who gets out rotten souled. They really hate when that happens and resort to name calling lol.

Agron Legioneras it's Cleopatra's last words to him, they came to mind when watching this brilliant scene.

A rotten soul, but a clear mind, at least.

I'm not sure I agree that Antony was portrayed as unintelligent in the show. Octavian is just more cunning. Antony in the show has a temper, but is often also smart enough to know when he's beaten. Like in this scene, the stupid move would have been to strike Octavian, but he doesn't, because he knows it would be politically imprudent.

@Brian O'Hara - Antony had military cunning for miles and miles. He also had political intelligence - *to a point.* He could take on politics in short spurts, but he was unable to play the long game. And that's what caused his downfall.

I think the show alters the character of most important persons. Octavian likely wasn't a total sociopath, he has his flaws, but likely he feel real friendship with Agrippa and has really loved Livia.

@@SacredDaturana Antony on the show was plenty intelligent, it's just that ultimately he was never doing more than playing a a game - a deadly game for very high stakes, but still, a game. That's one thing that never changed for him through the whole arc of the series. Octavian was very good at playing the game but he also took it very seriously on a level beyond that of a game - from the very first episode he shows a great deal of interest in the well-being and political stability of Rome as a nation and a people, just as Julius Caesar did. Antony is also shown, correctly IMO, as unable and/or unwilling to rein in his appetites even wen it is in his political interest to do so. He is lecherous and venal to a fault, as opposed to Octavian, who never lets sex get in the way of his political interest and is greedy only to the extent it serves his need for financial resources for his political and military campaigns. But for Antony, having to restrain himself from stealing or screwing whatever and whoever he feels like would spoil the whole point of being powerful.