Super excited for this and really appreciate all the positive comments! Reminder: Patreon Insiders & Deluxe subscribers get early access to each episode before it is released. www.patreon.com/posts/44189096 A few have mentioned/asked: I do tend to view Wilt's peak as higher than Russell's (which was outside the scope of this prelude). In 1967 he found a better balance with his playmaking and scoring, and combined with great defense authored a legendary season.
@aidanklobuchar17983 жыл бұрын
@miguelzaibatsu Didn't take long to find crappy takes. Let's just start with the fact that assists are one of, if not the absolute worst, NBA stat. Or how Russell had a massively positive impact on his team's culture, while multiple teams were tripping over themselves to get rid of Wilt because he was incredibly unlikable throughout (at least) the first portion of his career. Better team player my fucking ass.
@libraalibaba3 жыл бұрын
@@aidanklobuchar1798 I agree assist are a bit overrated. Shot creation on the other hand is a stat that they don't really focus on also teammates per usual play a significant role.
@ineversawrealfightinnbaonl40073 жыл бұрын
Wilt played in soft era with different rules. POINTS PER GAME IN NBA 1961/62- 237.6 POINTS PER GAME IN NBA 2019/20- 223.6 - REBOUNDS PER GAME IN NBA 1961/62- 142.8 REBOUNDS PER GAME IN NBA 2019/20- 89.6 - Free Throw Attemps PER GAME IN NBA 1961/62 - 74.2 Free Throw Attemps PER GAME IN NBA 2019/20- 46.2 - Personal Fouls PER GAME IN NBA 1961/62 -51.8 Personal Fouls PER GAME IN NBA 2019/20- 41.6
@ineversawrealfightinnbaonl40073 жыл бұрын
Wilt played in time without 3-pointers against smaller guys in league with 8 clubs and won only 2 rings. He never been playoff point-leader of NBA champion.
@ineversawrealfightinnbaonl40073 жыл бұрын
NBA 1960s-slow basketball ,soft basketball,for every fucking personal foul player get 1 or 2 free throws .
@exquisitemeat58453 жыл бұрын
This channel's peak is also historically great
@SM-1-63 жыл бұрын
So excited for this series. You make the absolute greatest basketball content available
@reubengarpvall92953 жыл бұрын
Agreed!
@cozycrossing2593 жыл бұрын
This is straight fax I need you to just livestream 24/7 f the big networks
@colefromcnda8423 жыл бұрын
@@cozycrossing259 fr it sucks that we only get a few videos a month
@Michaelqqq3 жыл бұрын
You guys should check out JxmyHighroller he’s pretty good too.
@SM-1-63 жыл бұрын
@@Michaelqqq he’s a little too narrative driven and his statistical knowledge and use of them isn’t even close to Ben Taylor. He’s not bad as far as most nba KZfaq channels go but I think he fails in comparison to this channel or dime drops
@WarrenJr19963 жыл бұрын
It’s a an absolutely crime how undervalued this channel is. Wish I lived in a world where this is what we talked about when talking about great players. Especially in mainstream media
@winnumber1013 жыл бұрын
This is the type of conversation that should drive the narratives on major broadcasting networks... data-driven, nuanced approaches, non-scoring blindness approaches to value attribution.... it’s genuinely insane how much people avoid this type of contemt
@WarrenJr19963 жыл бұрын
@@winnumber101 I guess we have wait until heaven to see this lol 🤷🏽♂️
@megatondc60542 жыл бұрын
@@winnumber101 Come on really just has you say individual stats do not make a great player. Neither does individual stat analysis, this stats and graphs can be pushed anyway you want them based on your biases. I would like to believe you understand that. Not because I can't spell or structure a sentence correctly.
@FranciscoHOS Жыл бұрын
@@megatondc6054Swag isn’t wrong though. Especially in recent times with JJ reddick calling out Kendrick Perkins for making big statements that weren’t accurate. There’s a need for a balance, subjective biases that are backed up by statistics. And in sports media today, the lack of preparation and research by a lot of these “sports analysts” showcase more general and controversial takes and analysis that lean more towards subjectivity than objectivity through statistics.
@dylanpatel23283 жыл бұрын
This is the best basketball content on YT and it’s not even close.
@WingedPlatypus3 жыл бұрын
Basketball Storyteller is also great
@gut99413 жыл бұрын
it's a close second to the "Making a Case" series from Clayton Crowley imo
@libraalibaba3 жыл бұрын
These are great.
@pedromdcc133 жыл бұрын
@@WingedPlatypus I love him, but is not like he's an analyst
@okdre92763 жыл бұрын
"Nothing but Amazing" is also very nice! :D
@whateverreally13473 жыл бұрын
Tiny fun fact for Ben : Wilt didn't actually play every minute in '62. He had a game against the Lakers with a lazy 40 minutes due to being ejected, but made up for it in averages with 5 OT games, a double OT game and a triple OT game
@smittywerbenjagermanjensen3203 жыл бұрын
Wilt never fouled out of a game in his entire career on top of playing insane minutes. He was a god amongst men
@larrygrecko9213 жыл бұрын
@@smittywerbenjagermanjensen320 “ A God amongst Men “ aside from when Wilt had to go up against Russell & the Cs
@smittywerbenjagermanjensen3203 жыл бұрын
@@larrygrecko921 wilt outperformed bill most times they played each other
@larrygrecko9213 жыл бұрын
@@smittywerbenjagermanjensen320 - Where I come from performance is measured by Wins & Losses & ultimately on Championships...
@youngobes3 жыл бұрын
@@larrygrecko921 Bill had the far superior team nearly every time they played. there's only so much one man can do
@mattvalin19583 жыл бұрын
It's so weird that you and Stephen A Smith somehow have the same job title.
@luke72773 жыл бұрын
Honestly its just disrespectful to Ben.
@kkawesome12343 жыл бұрын
Not only that but Stephen is making a shit ton of more money. Sad that guys like Ben don't get more exposure.
@anonuniversal3643 жыл бұрын
I wonder why people always have to hate on Stephen A 🤔 the guy is entertaining as hell and he paid his dues as a beat writer for a decade. The man carries ESPN.
@mattvalin19583 жыл бұрын
@@anonuniversal364 It depends on what you want in your sports analysis. He's more of a storyteller.I don't mean to downplay the importance of that, but I'm super into basketball and want to understand it and he doesn't really help that....he might sidetrack from it.
@anonuniversal3643 жыл бұрын
@The Ultimate playing doesn't make you a good analyst. Charles Barkley is a pretty terrible analyst but he's entertaining, fun to watch / listen too, and has interesting takes. It's all part of the job.
@MineShackle3 жыл бұрын
This is so exciting! This is the type of analysis that we deserve not hours of Skip Bayless and Stephen A Smith GOAT debates
@MrYoYoBoBoChaddyInsaneZhangII3 жыл бұрын
Well we don’t deserve it. But it’s what we need.
@yvans.3 жыл бұрын
Sadly most casual basketball fans prefer so called analysts who scream and have bold predictions rather than a smart and constructive men presented factual truth with actual research.
@dusk61593 жыл бұрын
Finally someone that doesn't look at bad bricks, dumb highlights, clutch gene myth, dawg, killah mentality, finally there's some thinking, one of the best and unbiased basketball content for sure. Despite the bias when Ben talks about Bill over Wilt (not mentioning Wilt's defense - one of the best but especially main things that Ben values Wilt for - while mentioning everything for Bill), granted. Though it's pretty insane how Chamberlain still looks that great despite being diminished.
@MineShackle3 жыл бұрын
@@dusk6159 Ben is definitetly biased, but I do think he acknowledged that Chamberlain was also great defensively but Bill is just... the greatest ever. It's kinda insane. I doubt many people would argue that Wilt is a better overall player
@dusk61593 жыл бұрын
@@MineShackle Absolutely, I only needed to have in place the facts of Wilt's great defense (all-time great record defense, though of course not over Bill, both things that Ben knows and usually makes sure to point out about Wilt), overall value and insane versatility, both as a player and for scoring, diminishing Wilt to a mere scorer and stat monster is pretty insane.
@kakerandelin3 жыл бұрын
People have said this a thousand times here but I want to say it myself. To an unhealthy-level NBA addict like me this channel is absolute crack. It's so far ahead of the usual (even professional) NBA content on YT intellectually it makes them sound like kids talking about a pickup game in their schoolyard. THANK YOU BEN and never stop please.
@kumayasei3 жыл бұрын
This serie is gonna give me goosebumps. And you are a true inspiration, watching your videos I'd wish I could dedicate myself to NBA analysis
@ThinkingBasketball3 жыл бұрын
🙏 Really appreciate that Kuma. Hope it delivers!
@ireminmon3 жыл бұрын
@@ThinkingBasketball Hell, I don't know hard the maths and analysis is, but the writing, video production and animations are 10/10. Do you have a team of content creators or do you do all of this on your own? Whatever the case, the content is brilliant.
@BlueHundred13 жыл бұрын
@@ireminmon the stats are the easy part. His analysis is phenomenal and the writing is always great. Fantastic pacing too. Best basketball content out there!
@omgg193 жыл бұрын
I feel like I'm committing a crime watching this for free
@mlkchannel58903 жыл бұрын
Nbs🤣
@mashwork66153 жыл бұрын
Man stfu before they put this on patreon
@jefjef6013 жыл бұрын
@@mashwork6615 fr 🤣🤣🤣
@OGPND3 жыл бұрын
You can see it in the clips around 8:40, Russell would block shots as a tip pass to his teammate to initiate a fast break. Master level defense
@Didyourmomtwice11 ай бұрын
One of the greatest blocks in playoff history; Wilt blocked a shot against the bulls caught it and threw a perfect pass down the court to Gail Goodrich to seal the series. Wilt blocked shots like that too.
@OpenYourEyes163 жыл бұрын
Russell is like Curry in a sense. Both the figureheads of dynasties; mostly because both are so good on one end of the court that you can overload their teams with players that make their money on the other end. Curry, for instance, can play with spacing-deficient, defensive centric units like Draymond, Iguodala, Livingston, Bogut, Festus, etc. and still handcraft an elite offense; while Russell’s teams could be supplemented with mostly offensive talent since he was in many ways a one man defense. Great start to the series.
@kakerandelin3 жыл бұрын
Draymond, Iggy, Livingston and Bogut are/were all very good offensive players also, weird example. Spacing-deficient yes kinda cause no 3s but all 4 are very good passers and very high basketball IQ and Iggy and Shaun are very good cutters aswell. And Shaun was money from mid range.
@scrotumusbaggins65623 жыл бұрын
@@kakerandelin He said "spacing deficient". None of those players were consistent (sorry Iggy) threats from beyond the arc and so were primarily inside the arc, clogging up spacing. I get what you're trying to say though.
@kakerandelin3 жыл бұрын
@@scrotumusbaggins6562 He also said defensive centric, which that lineup isn't at all.
@NothingElseMattersJM3 жыл бұрын
Curry was the 2nd option on the Warriors. It was KD’s team!
@OpenYourEyes163 жыл бұрын
@@kakerandelin Wait, you don’t think Iguodala, Draymond, Bogut and Livingston is defense-centric? All 4 are good passers, but even then their passing is more complimentary (if you cut and get open they’ll find you; but they aren’t breaking down a defense, drawing defenders, and creating a shot for a teammate). 70% percent of their on-court value was on the defensive end. Just look at the Warriors offensive metrics when Steph is off the court.
@harshgupta19993 жыл бұрын
Paul George catching strays left and right
@libraalibaba3 жыл бұрын
🤣🤣🤣🤣
@Fs99al3 жыл бұрын
It wasn't a shot at him though
@alonedownthere473 жыл бұрын
@@Fs99al it was an effective image tho, we all know what pg's offensive efficiency looks like
@pedromdcc133 жыл бұрын
Oh man, this is about to get crazy. The top 40 was already an eye opening, perspective changing series, now we have another one. Hope this all comes as quickly as possible
@SM-1-63 жыл бұрын
Reading the top 40 changed so many of my views from what I value from a player and the myths and misconceptions I had about old players
@MyHipsAreMovingOnTheirOwn3 жыл бұрын
That list opened my mind about Stockton and Wilt. I hope he updates it this offseason (if it needs updating).
@calvincoleman75433 жыл бұрын
@@MyHipsAreMovingOnTheirOwn I would love to see how the current players move (Steph/CP3/KD) or too see if Harden cracked his list. And ofc, I wonder if LeBron has done enough to be the GOAT in his list
@adamjohnson19663 жыл бұрын
@@calvincoleman7543 I bet he has. I remember him saying on a podcast once that he did it pre 2018 playoffs and just that run alone might have pushed him ahead of Jordan. Another two years is probably enough to move him past Kareem. I loved that series, and would love to see an update as well.
@pedromdcc133 жыл бұрын
@@adamjohnson1966 he said thar he didn't have time to change it because he was doing this series, but lebron passed kareem this season
@Jsoccer19993 жыл бұрын
I’ll say it again, this is the best basketball analysis in the world. This is million dollar work
@nathanielkang23973 жыл бұрын
I'm in the Russell camp for sure, but I'm wondering why you didn't mention that the Wilt using so many possessions at decent efficiency is actually a huge value (ie decent efficiency at huge volume is more valuable than better efficiency at small volume)
@Watchingvideoslikeu3 жыл бұрын
Yeah he kinda sells Wilts performances short
@OfficialJPryde3 жыл бұрын
This point.
@SV-bx5lr3 жыл бұрын
I also think the All-Star argument (Wilt having a similar amount) somewhat unfairly discredits the eye-test. Russell played with his all-star teammates and coach for years (chemistry) whereas Wilt's all-star teammates and coaches especially often changed frequently.
@DemonKing-oi4jd3 жыл бұрын
Russell vs Wilt Curry vs LeBron Duncan vs Kobe Magic vs Bird Tale as old as time
@mrmacross3 жыл бұрын
Basketball KZfaqr MDJ had a nice piece on what he called the Wilt Paradox, or something like that. In 1966, Wilt was way more efficient than his teammates, and scored over 30 per game. In 1967, Wilt reduced his usage rate, and as a result, the offense improved tremendously. Both Wilt and his teammates had better efficiency, which serves as a good demonstration that just because option A is more efficient than option B doesn't necessarily mean you should do cut down on option B. The football equivalent would be run vs. pass. Passing gets you more yards per play, but that doesn't necessarily mean teams should increase the ratio of passes to rushes more than they already do. In short, I think the answer is that Wilt shot the ball too much in their non-title years. On the other hand, I think it's also interesting to point out that when Wilt got his teammates in 1967 and 1972, Wilt's teams were probably better than any Russell team.
@david.tousignant203 жыл бұрын
Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain are both underated by modern NBA fans. On the other hand, some of Wilt Chamberlain's fans always bring stats in order to display Chamberlain's dominance. The thing is, we can't use metrics in order to determine if Chamberlain outplayed Russell, since journalists rarely wrote about these meetings. But, on occasions, we were lucky. During those years, the NBA rarely filmed their games and when they did, they destroyed the footage. On a few occasions, Wilt Chamberlain gathered points and rebounds when games were out of reach and Bill Russell [or other stars] were sitting on the bench. Thinking Basketball repeats it continually : "Stats don't tell the whole story." Let's dig into (link in the next comment) the 1962 EDF between Boston & Philadelphia : * Game 1 - Wilt held in check; Celts Cop "With Russell doing a defensive masterpiece on Wilt Chamberlain...Boston settled the contest early as it launched the defense of its world title. Russell, a picture of coordinated movement rising to the Chamberlain challenge held Wilt to 12 points in the first half. Chamberlain wound up high scorer with 33 points only after the issue was no longer in doubt." * Game 3 - Boston Clinches Contest Early (Russell Outplays Wilt, Celtics Take 2-1 Edge) "Bill Russell stole Wilt Chamberlain's thunder... Russell outscored and out rebounded scoring king Chamberlain in the crucial first half after being outplayed Wilt in Philadelphia Tuesday night. Though the 7-2 Chamberlain wound up leading all scorers with 35, most of them came too late for the visitors. Russell tallied 21 points to Wilt's 13 in the opening half and grabbed 14 rebounds to Chamberlain's 11. The big Celt finished up with 31 points. A typically brilliant play by Bob Cousy and Russell enabled the Celtics to open up their big spread before the first half ended...That gave Boston a 13 point bulge, 62-49, and the Celts proceeded to run the Warriors ragged the remaining four minutes. Boston led by 21 at intermission, 76-55." Pay special attention to this part - "Russell outscored and out rebounded scoring king Chamberlain in the crucial first half" Wilt was the 1961/62 REGULAR SEASON scoring and rebounding champion (50-25), but Russell outdid him in both categories when it MATTERED MOST. * Game 5 - Fights Mark 119-104 Triump by Champions (Celtics put clamp on Chamberlain; Gain 3-2 Lead in East NBA Playoffs) "Bill Russell put the clamps on Wilt Chamberlain... Russell scored 29 points to Chamberlain's 30. Bill blanketed Wilt so well that the NBA scoring king had only four of 13 field goal tries, 11 points and outrebounded 11-9 by his tormentor in the first half. Russell also contributed numerous blocked shots and assists to the decision...When Philadelphia closed the gap to eight points at the start of the second period, the Celtics turned on a burst in which they outscored the Warriors 17-4" ONCE AGAIN - "Russell scored 29 points to Chamberlain's 30. Bill blanketed Wilt so well that the NBA scoring king had only four of 13 field goal tries, 11 points and outrebounded 11-9 by his tormentor in the first half." Russell delivered the points and rebounds when it MATTERED, unlike REGULAR SEASON scoring/rebound champ Wilt Chamberlain * Game 7 - Jones Sinks Winning Two For Celtics "Jones fired the winning basket over giant Wilt Chamberlain with two seconds left for the 109-107 victory Thursday night...Russell, 6-10 center whose spectacular blocks of shots and passes in the fourth quarter helped Boston's comeback, agreed (with Auerbach). "Toughest series I've ever had to play in," said Russell...Though Russell held Chamberlain to 22 points and had the rebounding edge 22-21, Wilt was outstanding defensively...while rookie Tom Meschery took scoring honors with 32 points ONCE AGAIN - "Russell held Chamberlain to 22 points and had the rebounding edge 22-21...rookie Tom Meschery took scoring honors with 32 points" Sure, if you look solely on basketball reference, it looked like Chamberlain destroyed Russell, but journalists have us an insight of what really happened. Russell was handling the situation pretty greatly... but, Chamberlain managed to padded his stats when Russell was on the bench.
@david.tousignant203 жыл бұрын
Game 1 : news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1368&dat=19620326&id=33NQAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4RAEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6077,2694955 Game 3 : news.google.com/newspapers?id=jKEtAAAAIBAJ&sjid=hNEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1920,5116330&dq=wilt+chamberlain+35+russell+31&hl=en Game 5 : news.google.com/newspapers?id=9z4pAAAAIBAJ&sjid=TGYFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2976,2892610&dq=11+points+and+was+out+rebounded+11-9+by+his+tormentor+in+the+crucial+first&hl=en Game 7 : news.google.com/newspapers?id=-SERAAAAIBAJ&sjid=zOIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6499,996218&dq=wilt+chamberlain+21+points+22+rebounds&hl=en
@Legend33Larry3 жыл бұрын
True brother. Nobody Touches Jordan [KZfaqr] research on this subject years ago : he had an entire section on Chamberlain.
@heatnix32233 жыл бұрын
While I appreciate the sources, the conclusion you have drawn from them is simply wrong. This is a very small sample size from one series. After reading the articles it's clear they had a back and forth, russell maybe getting the better of wilt this time. Keep in mind this is 1962 when Wilt was nowhere near the player he would be just 2 years later. From games available to watch on youtube Wilt instead out performs Russell in nearly every way, when on the court at the same time i'll add. Those are the 1964 finals game, 1967 edf (game ?), 1969 finals game 7... playing injured. Later in his career chamberlain became a much more effective scorer and defender. The numbers... and footage dont lie. Add to the fact, people nowadays undersell how much better russell's supporting cast was. I know this isn't entirely shown here but from other media, forgive me no sources lol but Wilt was hated by the media and constantly bashed by articles on anything he would do on the court and off. Subscribe to 70s Fan youtube channel for awesome basketball videos from that era and you can actually see some of their duels, it's incredibly rare footage that may add a little insight. Anyway, Wilt is better and good day sir.
@david.tousignant203 жыл бұрын
@@heatnix3223 I was born in the 1970. To me, Wilt Chamberlain is one of the greatest player to ever laced them up. He was a pioneer and was the first certified NBA player to ever lift weights. He was ahead of his time. But, he was a very selfish player until 1967. Most fans, reporters in the 1970s talked about it. When Chamberlain was traded to the Lakers, Sony Hill (sports announcer), stated it wasn't the case. But, contrary to the popular belief my friend, the medias actually loved Wilt Chamberlain and hated Bill Russell due to their opposite personalities. Wilt Chamberlain talked about it in his book "Who's running the Asylum?" In another book, written by John Taylor, The Rivalry : Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, and the Golden Age of Basketball. We learnt that Wilt Chamberlain had a few heated moments with his coaches. At the page 192 of this book, Chamberlain almost fought Alex Hannum because he felt his coaches wanted to change his game. What did he wanted Chamberlain to do? He wanted to keep Chamberlain on the bench when the game was out of reach; he asked Chamberlain to involve his teammates more often by setting picks for them, passed the ball to them (so, to take fewer shots); and run back in order to defend his own basketball. His closest friend on the team, Guy Rodgers and other players felt the coach's decisions were paying off, since they were winning games. Alex Hannum almost fought Chamberlain in front of reporters after a few altercations with him! Because Hannum was tired of Chamberlain complaining to reporters after the games! Chamberlain also had a few heated moments w/ his Lakers coach Butch van Breda Kolff & Warriors coach Frank McGuire. Furthermore, Nobody Touches Jordan tackled a few NBA series of Wilton Chamberlain [1973 NBA Finals versus the Knicks, etc.]. The same pattern occured in those series. You should read them, with a grain of salt, of course. nobodytouchesjordan.blogspot.com/2014/09/section-10-wilt-chamberlain-great-but_16.html?m=1 I'm not a Chamberlain hater. On the contrary my friend, I firmly believe we will never see a career like his. But, he was selfish before Alex Hannum changes that... Even when he wanted to lead the league the league in assists, he wanted to be involved in every plays and refused to pass the ball to Matt Guokas (and other teammates). Why? Because, some of his teammates took dribble and Chamberlain wouldn't gathered the assist. If Chamberlain had his Lakers' mindset for his entire career, he would had scored fewer points, but he would had won more accolades. I hope you'll have a wonderful day.
@nathanielmoore25993 жыл бұрын
wilt chamberlain doesn’t need stats...The fact they change multiple rules to limit your dominance speaks of a greatness beyond statistical comprehension or championship...and despite the rule changes you still dominate beyond comprehension...you set unbreakable records than break them again....When they write articles fearing that your ability will destroy the game of basketball you reach Demi God status...Some people are just gifted beyond understanding and are here just to be appreciated...
@sarperkizilkaya45313 жыл бұрын
If everybody watched these videos nba twitter would have been a much more habitable place
@bum_53623 жыл бұрын
Lmao I came back to this video after someone said wilt was higher all time
@Fayn7573 жыл бұрын
nba Twitter is aids
@adityasr24483 жыл бұрын
@@Fayn757 It's cancer
@austin59443 жыл бұрын
@@bum_5362 I high-key can't stand wilt stans, all they do is look at his 50 per game season and call him the goat center.
@casualfandestroyer25033 жыл бұрын
@@austin5944 they make millions of excuses for wilt
@arthurdiserbeau17363 жыл бұрын
Really excited for this series but regarding this episode, you analysed Bill's defence and offense and how his defence made him really good and you also spoke about Wilt's offensive game but you didn't (if I'm not mistaken) speak about his defensive impact
@xycubed3 жыл бұрын
Long story short, he thinks defense is where Wilt made his real impact, just not as much as Russell did. See Wilt's entry in Backpicks Top 40 for more.
@arthurdiserbeau17363 жыл бұрын
@@xycubed I understand how Russel's defensive impact is greater than Wilt's but I don't believe it is that THAT much better to compensate for his better (although overrated) offensive impact
@xycubed3 жыл бұрын
@@arthurdiserbeau1736 Well, that's the million-dollar question, isn't it. Because unquestionably Wilt had more combined offense and defense than Russell. The case made in the video, though, is that Wilt had more offense than offensive _impact_, because his scoring was replaceable for the team (despite being very impressive for an individual player) and it was only when he dialed it back to contribute more in other ways that his impact shot up.
@arthurdiserbeau17363 жыл бұрын
@@xycubed I just thought his defensive contribution should have been mentioned when comparing peaks but yeah I get what you!re saying
@dusk61593 жыл бұрын
@@arthurdiserbeau1736 Exactly
@eternalboss10463 жыл бұрын
Wilt was more talented and individually dominant while Russell understood the team game better. Russell tailored his play to most maximize his team's output, while Wilt tended to tailor his game for his own output. In 1967 Wilt was tasked to take on a more team optimizing role and to his credit he did take that on with great success. Over the careers overall Wilt measured himself by stats while Russell measured himself by wins, so they both hit their personal targets at high levels. If Wilt was tasked earlier on to take on his 67 role then maybe he wins more, but his raw statistical marks would not be as gaudy as they were.
@jhgust2 жыл бұрын
Mostly, Russell led great teams and Wilt carried average teams!!!
@williepep-fy7qm Жыл бұрын
@@jhgust wilt scoring dropped 8/8 playoff series against Bill Russell, 6/8 his efficiency dropped and 7/8 he lost even though Wilts team had the better record 4/8 times including the best record in the league from 1966-1968 , and 1969 having second best record in the league while Russell 69 team finished last playoff spot and still won
@mitchtherevolution Жыл бұрын
Bill Russel could put up 50 a game if he wanted to and was every bit the athletic freak that Wilt was. People think Wilt was so much more physically gifted the Bill Russell, but that just isn't true. People talk about Wilt's high jump for example, which was good at 6' 6 and fifth best in the US at one point. But Russell had a high jump of 6'9, and was seventh best in the world in college.
@ralphgreenwood24693 ай бұрын
He couldn't win until 67 because his teams weren't good enough.Nothing to do with Wilt.Billy Cunningham finally put Wilt over the top.He neutralized Havlicek for the Celtics.Philly beat them easy.
@ralphgreenwood24693 ай бұрын
His numbers were only gaudy as you say with the Warriors.76 ers was a whole different team different situation.Guys don't really know the game.They mix Warriors.76ers and Lakers together and don't even know what they are talking about but they think they know the game.Funny
@Cdosvirusexe3 жыл бұрын
This is the quality of discourse I wish all NBA analysts had. Outstanding work, loved every minute.
@akissick19813 жыл бұрын
Super, super impressive content as always - such a joy to be able to head down memory lane yet still get some analysis on the game like we have today. Can’t wait for the rest Ben!
@rosereviews72153 жыл бұрын
Got a fat blunt and some food prepared for this. Thanks Thinking Basketball 🙏🏾
@doktarr3 жыл бұрын
The biggest quibble I have with your approach is that you can't completely discount how many minutes a player played. If one player is playing much more, then the value they deliver (relative to an average player) while on the court will stack up higher. Wilt's insane minute totals in the early 60s can't be completely discounted. I'm not saying this by any means invalidates your overall analysis, and when you go to WOWYR stats later you're obviously (implicitly) taking this into account.
@nathanielmoore25993 жыл бұрын
If wilt average 48 minutes a game in the 1962 season when he average 50 how did he know that his teammates played better without him???
@doktarr3 жыл бұрын
@@nathanielmoore2599 Wilt does present a pretty bad sample size problem, at least in those years. Even later in his career he was still playing 42 minutes a game. The best data point is the year he was traded to the 76ers, since each of the two teams he was on had half a season without him.
@casualfandestroyer25033 жыл бұрын
@@doktarr the warriors were 10-47 before wilt got traded for peanuts
@geordiejones56182 жыл бұрын
Wilt and Russell were spammed by their coaches. They played the most 48:00 games by a lot. In the playoffs only Hondo and Lebron come close to as many 45:00 games. Wilt could have had a real GOAT argument if he just kept playing. Players said that even at 50 he was making the best players in the league look bad as a trainer/scrimmage guy. He could have signed modest on teams looking to compete against the likes of Kareem, Walton, Unseld, Lanier, Cowens etc
@heavylobster43392 жыл бұрын
Wilt playing and performing for 48 minutes at a time when the pace was that fast should at least count for something.
@giannis.ioannidis.19953 жыл бұрын
You are committing a serious mistake when trying to analyze data strictly. You fail to take context into account. "Wilt played more minutes so he had more opportunities to score" led you to say "Kobe and Mike scored more per possession so they're better scorers". Durability is an aspect of basketball. It shouldn't be ignored like that. Wilt's case for being the greatest scorer ever shouldn't take a hit because he was durable enough to play the whole fucking game (especially considering the pace was crazy as well). The minutes played is a pro-Wilt argument, not an argument against him.
@luke72773 жыл бұрын
I would say it can be used for both, yes he is incredibly durable and was like a super human (pro) but he's scoring rate is way lower cause he played so much (con)
@luke72773 жыл бұрын
The mistake I would he made was mentioning coaching and how each of them where used and how that is a factor.
@casualfandestroyer25033 жыл бұрын
@@luke7277 How fitting of the great 60s Celtics dynasty to end in the 1969 Finals with Sam Jones outscoring Wilt in back to back Games 6 and 7, and the fourth consecutive Game 7 meeting in a row (1962, 1965, 1968, 1969) between the two, Wilt choking at the free throw line once again just like in 1960, 1961, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, and 1969, Wilt quitting, the Lakers making a run with him off the floor only to lose by a mere 2 points in spite of Wilt's 9 bricks at the FT line, and his Hall of Fame teammate Jerry West doing everything he can to carry his team to the ring, dropping 43-13-12 in Game 7 and winning Finals MVP, only for Chamberlain to fail him. In 1968 (3-1 lead) and 1969 (3-2 lead) alone, Wilt was 0-5 vs OLD Bill Russell in closeout games. That's the most "dominant" player in history? Wilt's scoring NEVER benefited his team during this scoring champ seasons, and when his team needed him to score in the post-scoring title years of his career, he failed to step up - just like when Sam Jones outscored him in all four Game 7 meetings.
@pedrofior25623 жыл бұрын
@@casualfandestroyer2503 The Boston Celtics of the 50s and 60s were by far the best team in American sports history. The Bill Russell's era lasted 13 years with 11 NBA titles. They were by far the best team. No comparison. Those Celtics team always had at least 4 or 5 HoFs playing for them every year. Some of them had 8 and 9. Absolute insanity. It would never happen in the modern era. On the other hand, the Celtics' opposition had 2 or 3 HoF maximum. So, it is stupid to frame things as Wilt x Russell. It was the Celtics x everyone else. The Celtics did not only outplayed Wilt. They outplayed West, Baylor, Robertson, Bellamy, Pettit, Thurmond, everyone. So, this kind of argument that Wilt "choked" or was "outplayed" by Sam Jones (as if it was something bad (???) Jones was one of the best players in the 60s, legendary Celtics player and a HoF) could be applied to all those superstars above. The Lakers with West and Baylor were constantly shredded by that Celtics as well. Wilt could even force more Games 7 against that Celtics than the Lakers. Bill Russell surely was the main piece of that team and his competitiveness and ultra high basketball IQ led that team to be the best ever. This is enough for him to be in the GOAT conversation, as he was the best player of the best team ever. But the team was far superior to the rest. Competition could not catch up. Simple as that. That being said, the only player capable of beating a full healthy Celtics was Wilt Chamberlain in 67. Pettit's Hawks could also beat them in 58, which was a MAJOR Celtics' choke, but it came only with Bill Russell being injured and not being able to play for multiple games in the Finals. So, in the end, the only guy able to disrupt the run of the greatest dynasty ever was Wilt. His 67 Sixers championship is one of the most significant championships in NBA history. Putting into today's perspective, it was similar to Lebron's Cavs defeating Curry's Warriors (the one with 73-9 record) after coming back from a 3-1 deficit. That's the real context of that historical period. Not only Wilt's performance in Games 7 against the Celtics.
@casualfandestroyer25033 жыл бұрын
@@pedrofior2562 The Boston Celtics never made a trip to the NBA Finals before Bill Russell arrived in Boston. Even though they had Coach Auerbach, Bill Sharman, Bob Cousy and other future Hall of Famers, they did not make the Finals. Not even once. In the 1962 season, Bill Russell sat out 4 straight games and the Celtics effectively lost 4 straight games, again with players like Cousy, Sharman, and Coach Auerbach. In 1969, Bill sat out 5 straight games thanks to an injury and the Celtics went 0-5! This all happening with Sam Jones, John Havlicek and other Hall of Famers playing in the rotation. These 2 losing streaks I mentioned are the 2 worst losing streaks of the "Russell-Celtics" Don't think that when Russell retired, most of the Celtics stars retired with him..they still had HoF's such as Havlicek, Sanders, Jo Jo White and Howell. Yet they still went through a massive 14 game drop when Russell retired. With the 76ers when Wilt got traded for a 5th and 8th man the 76ers went down from a 57 win team to a 55 win one. When MJ retired his team went from a 57 win team into a 55 win one: Oooh big drop! Bill Russell won 11 NBA championships while on the Boston Celtics, and he was the biggest reason for them.
@sauliussimcikas75383 жыл бұрын
For some reason I like watching videos about the GOAT debate. I watched like a 100 of them. But this one changed my mind more than any other.
@AlkisGD2 жыл бұрын
I'm not even a basketball guy (or sports guy in general), but this year's Euroleague put me in the mood for some basketball content and I'm enjoying the hell out of this channel. It feels like I'm learning so much, things that will help me better enjoy the matches I'll be watching in the coming days. Thanks a million!
@ebrown1123 жыл бұрын
i really really really wish that stephen A. smith would watch this and learn. i bet he will watch it, but i’m not holding my breath that he’ll learn from the master... thanks for a stellar vid, ben. so excited for this series!!!!
@alonedownthere473 жыл бұрын
stephen a is paid to be wrong and it's no question why when his name is in your mouth
@coreyshafarman89183 жыл бұрын
The best basketball channel on youtube. I look forward to new posts
@geordiejones56183 жыл бұрын
Bill Russell always gonna be my favorite player of all time. Lebron and Jordan are close favorites but Russell is for me the single greatest competitor in the history of competive sports. In 15 championship or 1st place games/series over 15 years, Russell led 14 titles. He even dominated in high school. My favorite stats of his time with the Celtics: 27-2 in playoff series for his career, 10-0 in game 7s. He was absolutely a maniac who wanted to win more than anyone. He made every teammate better just like Magic and his all time BBIQ is clearly evident by his last two titles, in which he was both the head coach AND starting center at 34/35. He led the first 1-3 deficit comeback against prime Wilt and then the first Finals 0-2 comeback including a road game 7 to close his career. Plenty of players have the better highlight reel, but Russell might just be the single most valuable player ever: his measured defensive impact and playoff results will never be matched.
@markbaldwin83393 жыл бұрын
Prime Wilt was 7 seasons.. 59/60 - 65/66
@geordiejones56183 жыл бұрын
@@markbaldwin8339 I dont agree but he beat him every single time in those seasons. 67-69 Wilt was the ideal combo of passing, scoring and elite defense.
@palashsharma1473 жыл бұрын
What was amazing to watch apart from the absolute perfect analysis was the vintage footage of Wilt and Russell. Made the video so much more appealing to me! Keep the amazing content coming and can't wait for the next episode
@noname772fp23 жыл бұрын
Incredible video man! Best basketball content not just on KZfaq but anywhere. It’s a shame you don’t have an audience the size of these clowns on ESPN and FOX
@caleb_lane3 жыл бұрын
“The original GOAT debate was divided into two” You forgot the Oscar Robertson and Jerry West truthers.
@caleb_lane3 жыл бұрын
@The Ultimate got to disagree on the Elgin take. Elgin was a very inconsistent and not on the same level as these guys. His knee problems killed him but he was a great floor raiser. In his prime he was right around the impact of Scottie Pippen (top 25 all time) and was a valuable asset to a decent Lakers team. He only crunched his MVP abs twice (‘61 and ‘63) in which he finished 3rd in WS/48 in ‘61 and 5th in ‘61. Here is Ben’s (the creator of the video) profile on him. He gave Baylor the 37th ranked career in his top 40. backpicks.com/tag/elgin-baylor/
@caleb_lane3 жыл бұрын
@The Ultimate look at that evaluation by Ben Taylor. Here is scotties backpicks.com/2018/01/29/backpicks-goat-23-scottie-pippen/
@DrRhilTV3 жыл бұрын
By this video standards oscar Robertson was trash
@DrRhilTV3 жыл бұрын
@@caleb_lane are you are doing is solidify him as the most underrated player ever. He is the best finisher in nba history and everyones favorite players favorite player
@caleb_lane3 жыл бұрын
@@DrRhilTV by this video’s standards he is the 12th best player of all time
@aidanklobuchar17983 жыл бұрын
Channels and content like this are such a breath of fresh air. I feel like anytime you talk basketball with someone new, you are forced to either walk away (due to their nuclear level bad takes) or dump a few courses of NBA knowledge to get them up to speed. Volume scoring is only so impactful, creating easy offense for your team as a whole is the one of the key markers of an all-time great, assists are an absolutely terrible stat, rebounds, blocks, and steals are a poor proxy for measuring defense, how team defense is different than one-on-one defense and why both matter, the concept of efficiency, the concepts of pace, the concepts of hard to measure factors (culture, getting teammates involved can help them play better even if they may the be seemingly less efficient option, etc.). Love this channel! Should be required course material for TV analysts and commentators. That would hopefully raise the collective basketball IQ of fans to an acceptable level. Edit: Love that Ben Wallace gets some love. Such an underappreciated player. And people forgot that he got hurt right before the 2003 playoffs and suffered a decline afterwards. Most missed his true peak!
@SethKasso3 жыл бұрын
Oh my god it's finally happening!
@depressedrocketsfan28803 жыл бұрын
Everybody stay calm
@QankoIvanov3 жыл бұрын
dont menton God without need pray and repent to God believe in the trinity
@mymountrushmore6235 Жыл бұрын
Bill Russell will always be the true GOAT to me.
@burricanecarter3 жыл бұрын
Great video, you make a lot of good points. This being said, there's a couple of things that didn't convince me quite yet so I thought I might chime in. Wilt's teams were better offensively when he was scoring less - that's a statistical fact. But to me it seemed like you tried to imply that Wilt was holding his teammates back and I don't think that this was sufficiently proven (I'm not trying to say that it couldn't have been true, I just wished it was statistically proven). For that I would like to see how his teammates and his teams from those years performed when he was not on the team. Also his teammates on his 1972 Lakers team (where he was passing more) were Jerry West and Gail Goodrich. I don't think he had prolific teammates as those 2 in his Sixers years. Would his early teams be better off if he shot less? The other thing that kind of bothered me was the segment where you talk about how Wilt's stats sank against Bill Russell, but there's no analysis of how they defended him as a team compared to the other teams. From what I've seen on the tape the best 1:1 defender against Wilt was Willis Reed and not Russell. The last point is that Wilt's own defense is never brought up in this video and he was also considered one of the best defenders of his time. His teams were not as good defensively, but some of Kevin Garnett's Minnesota teams were bad on defense too. Plenty of good or great defenders have looked bad on bad teams. So it's not really all time offense against all time defense, it's all time offense + elite defense against all time defense + average offense in my opinion. Still I'm not saying this makes Wilt better but it's something that has to be considered in my opinion. Also I'm not trying to say you somewhat misused the stats and I also understand that we don't have many stats and even less film, so analysis is always going to be difficult. But I think that there's this "Russell would do whatever it needed to be done for his team to win" narrative, which is kind of faulty to me because he wasn't as offensively gifted and didn't make a deliberate decision. I just wanted to add that I don't have a dog in this fight. I think that GOAT lists are pointless so I'm fine with it either way.
@Van_ax3 жыл бұрын
He’s biased lol. Curry/Nash/Kg stan
@rollotomasi40453 жыл бұрын
Both Wilt and Kareem said that Nate Thurmond was the best post defender they ever played against.
@burricanecarter3 жыл бұрын
@@rollotomasi4045 You're absolutely correct, I mixed up the names. Willis Reed was magnificent in the 1970s finals against Wilt though. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/aLdjiK-l2tLOfXk.html
@casualfandestroyer25033 жыл бұрын
Russell played with four members of the NBA's Top 50 at 50 (Havlicek, Cousy, Sharman, and Sam Jones); Wilt played with six members (Baylor, West, Greer, Cunningham, Arizin, and Thurmond). And Russell's teammates from 1957 to 1969 were selected to twenty-six All-Star games, while Wilt's teammates from 1960 to 1973 were selected to twenty-four. Let's never mention the supporting-cast card again with Russell and Chamberlain. Thank you. Wilt never was the leading scorer in the finals when he won In fact he was the 5th leading scorer in the 1967 finals 5th LEADING SCORER ON HIS OWN TEAM ALONE, wilts game was never that of a winner bill was the more clutch cerebral player 3 times in the finals he averaged 20+ PPG and another finals series he had 70%FG on near 20 PPG,
@burricanecarter3 жыл бұрын
@@casualfandestroyer2503 Wilt only played with Baylor when Baylor was already 34 years old (and Wilt was 32 at the time too). West was 30 years old, Arizin was 31 and Thurmond only came in the league when he played with Wilt. So technically speaking you might be correct, but I don't think Wilt got many prime years of his HoF teammates primes. Also, having Red Auerbach as coach was probably a factor too but maybe Wilt was too strong headed to get along with a good coach. I don't know really, aside from that that Red seemed to love Wilt.
@dariusheatlilweezy2 жыл бұрын
Brooooooo. Finding your page just now almost made me cry. This is feeding the geek in me like crazzzyyyy
@CadChamberlain3 жыл бұрын
Wilt's career is a tale of confidence and (perceived) lack of talent around him. He scored in bunches early in his career because he could and he was the best scorer and only efficient scorer on the team. When he got teammates he trusted to take the shots, he became more well-rounded and his team's success skyrocketed.
@dp233332 Жыл бұрын
He had 4hof teammates in 1961 stop lying
@CadChamberlain Жыл бұрын
@@dp233332 3 of them werent scorers and the other one was in the last year of his career
@williepep-fy7qm Жыл бұрын
@@CadChamberlain wilt scoring dropped 8/8 playoff series against Bill Russell, 6/8 his efficiency dropped and 7/8 he lost even though Wilts team had the better record 4/8 times including the best record in the league from 1966-1968 , and 1969 having second best record in the league while Russell 69 team finished last playoff spot and still won
@dp23333211 ай бұрын
@@CadChamberlain if hes such an unstoppable scorer the fact that they werent grest scorers shouldnt matter that much especially given all the hype wilt fans bestow upon him for his passing skills
@williepep-fy7qm11 ай бұрын
@@CadChamberlain Guy Rodgers was elite playmaker, Gola was a all around player with no holes in his game. Arizin was a prolific scorer who won a championship without Wilt in 1956, Attles was like kc Jones but more efficient
@starfyre593 жыл бұрын
For those wondering, Wilt actually peaked higher than Bill in single season peaks, according to the creaotr of this video. his 1967 season is better than any of Russell's season, because of better creation, and critically, insane defense. Wilt is still a top 10 player of all time, but he accomplishes this through high level defense, and great but not transcendent offense, buoyed by a willingness to pass in the late 60s.
@hEaDShoT29343 жыл бұрын
Wilt loses in consistency and two season peak that's why Russell > Wilt
@starfyre593 жыл бұрын
@@hEaDShoT2934 agreed
@back2back3793 жыл бұрын
@miguelzaibatsu surface level stats will always only tell a surface level narrative. Try seeing the game on a deeper level, like the impact a player has for his team. Bill Russell’s impact for team stats and team winning was far greater than Wilt’s, as correctly displayed in the video, it’s not even close really.
@Unreelme3 жыл бұрын
@@back2back379 in 1967 wilt beat Russell 4-1 and had a then NBA record 68 wins, along with a title. That shows that Wilts peak was higher, albeit it for a much shorter period of time.
@back2back3793 жыл бұрын
@@Unreelme and then he went back to creating dissension in the locker room, making passive aggressive statements to the media about him not getting the ball as much as he wanted, and everything fell apart by the end of the very next season. Team completely disbanded after that.
@royazoulay33713 жыл бұрын
Wow that Bob Cousy dime at 12:25 was super nice!
@nbastatsketball85143 жыл бұрын
This series is so underrated, I haven't been excited to watch a basketball series since the last dance.
@gretchenlittle68173 жыл бұрын
Just noticed this channel last night -- I think I've watched 15 of your videos since. Basketball has always been my favorite sport -- I'd rather watch a decent high school game than the Super Bowl or the Stanley Cup finals. Your work examines and explains the game's complexity better than any I've ever seen.
@gta4life1123 жыл бұрын
This channel almost got me thinking I would want to study statistics in college but then I took my required STAT250 class and found out I more just like basketball lmao.
@d-rose273 жыл бұрын
lol
@crablord79343 жыл бұрын
Bruh some of those Big Bill blocks were stupid impressive
@sanket93053 жыл бұрын
1:11 that dish was crazy
@lloydkline69463 жыл бұрын
Bill Russell greatest shot blocker ever
@jesuschrististhelord99373 жыл бұрын
@@lloydkline6946 nah wilt was better.
@lloydkline69463 жыл бұрын
@@jesuschrististhelord9937 i.got wilt 1973 book, wilt happily admitted bill Russell was better at shot blocker., rebounder, He also said bill Russell could not score on a step latter
@jesuschrististhelord99373 жыл бұрын
@@lloydkline6946 I doubt that’s true. But would love to see it
@danielbetancourt14833 жыл бұрын
I'm spreading this to whoever I can. GOAT Basketball content. One of the only things I think is worth me donating to
@surprisecat74013 жыл бұрын
Even with 181k subscribers this channel is still really underrated. Deserves at least 500k. Been here since the Lonzo Video at around 21k subscribers. Always such great and quality content.
@marcowolf96853 жыл бұрын
Wilt and Bill played against each other for 10 seasons. I took their ranking in different categories, and produced an average ranking for that year. Example: if you came in first each season your ranking would be 1.0. Defensive Win Shares: Bill(1.1) Wilt(2.9) Total Win Shares: Bill(5.3) Wilt(1.4) PER: Bill(10+) Wilt(1.2) Bill didn't crack the Top 10 enough for me to calculate a proper total. He did finish 9th or 10th a few times, though So, over the 10 years they played against each other, Wilt was a much better defensive player than Bill was an offensive player. Bill is an all-time great, but Wilt was far superior based upon advanced analytics. He had the best Total Win Shares and PER, 8 out of the 10 years and even beat out Bill one year for most Defensive Win Shares. Bill did win every other year in that 10 year period, which is quite amazing in itself.
@casualfandestroyer25033 жыл бұрын
Marco wolf “The Celtics also ran the pick-and-roll over and over again, freeing up Sam Jones and John Havlicek for open jumpers as Wilt again showed himself reluctant to leave the paint and cover the shooters who had been freed by Russell’s picks. Alex Hannum screamed from the sidelines for Wilt to switch, but to no avail as Jones, Havlicek, and point guard Larry Siegfried combined for 61 points”.-the rivalry John Taylor. This is how wilt ending up blowing the 3-1 lead to bill Russell in 1968
@williepep-fy7qm Жыл бұрын
@Marcowolf9685 wilt scoring dropped 8/8 playoff series against Bill Russell, 6/8 his efficiency dropped and 7/8 he lost even though Wilts team had the better record 4/8 times including the best record in the league from 1966-1968 , and 1969 having second best record in the league while Russell 69 team finished last playoff spot and still won
@timswabb3 жыл бұрын
The reason fans have a hard time calling Russell the GOAT is that his style of play was so dependent on his era. As you say, rules have changed to favor offensive players. In today’s era, under today’s rules, Russell’s style of play would be much less effective. As a big man who could play in the paint or on the perimeter, he would still be valuable. But he couldn’t shut down a team by controlling the paint. But with Russell’s world class athleticism, height, length, competitiveness, and basketball IQ, he might find an entirely different way to dominate. I’ll just echo others to say I’m incredibly excited for this series. I’m just trying to figure out what you will consider Jordan and James’ peak years. Also, I’m curious about Duncan vs. Garnett.
@jomno85393 жыл бұрын
I think the main concern with Russell is his offensive game. Even if you think he'd be the best defensive player in any era (and he certainly has a case for that), you'd basically also have to argue his defensive impact would be so immense that it would outweigh his limitations as a scorer compared to other GOAT candidates. His defensive accomplishments in his era still put him in the upper echelon, but that's one thing I question about him.
@xycubed3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, it's fair. Trying to give all eras to any one player is hard enough when the eras are so different, but it's all the more so for a player who has some monstrous strengths and some deficiencies, because it's easy to argue a different era would downplay the strengths and highlight the deficiencies. This leads to a (not necessarily irrational) bias towards well-rounded players in all-time rankings compared to their statistical impact in their era. But, well, you can only actually play for the era you're in.
@CoolStuff-yr8ye3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, in his monthly Q&A he said he believes that it is unlikely Russell would be able to impact the game today like he did in his era. He said that he believes that the research out there suggests a "resounding no," to the idea a player could have MVP level impact based on defense alone. The thing is, who is to say there is one right way to play basketball? Like sure Russell may not have the same impact today as he did years ago, but vice-versa, would Steph have the same impact he does today in Russell's era? I think the idea of impact relative to era, is that you find a way to impact the game you are in. You have to deal with what you are dealt and Russell innovated defense in many ways.
@NicolasAlcalde3 жыл бұрын
Another reason is his rival being ridiculously better than him at basketball.
@williammorrison63113 жыл бұрын
In later eras, Russell would have had the benefit of learning from later generations of players who came before him, and I think he would have been a much better player offensively, maybe something like Amare Stoudamire.
@Jacob236153 жыл бұрын
This might be your best video. Incredible
@northernlight10003 жыл бұрын
WHAT AN INTRO!! This looks great and this will be an incredible series. Reminding me why I love the game
@maxpeng96413 жыл бұрын
Beautiful statistics, Ben. Fabulous work here. (huge fan btw :)
@starkk193 жыл бұрын
It's a crazy thing how much the mainstream media basketball "analysts" undervalue defensive contribution. Pure scorers who are absolute defensive liabilities are always celebrated while defensive oriented guys are ignored. There's this latest conversation with Shaq being salty with Rudy Gobert's contract with him not being deserving of that contract because "He averages 11 points". I'm not saying Gobert's a Bill Russell but why do we do we balk at the sight of overpaying defensive guys but not purely offensive-minded players?
@andresarpi11433 жыл бұрын
This is one of the best videos on yt, on any topic. congrats man, awesome job.
@prymetynes2 жыл бұрын
Such great work. People dont appreciate the impact of a Russell. keep these coming even in 2022
@nopizza4383 жыл бұрын
Thank you for your content. It would never be the same when I watch basketball from now on.
@FatPankakes1013 жыл бұрын
I’m still convinced that Wilt’s 1966-67 season was the greatest single season of all time. Too bad he couldn’t keep up that level of dominance.
@dusk61593 жыл бұрын
Indeed
@samhartje7233 жыл бұрын
I just don’t see how it’s the greatest season ever when he played every minute of every game, took every single shot, and didn’t elevate his teammates in any way. He was way too selfish.
@elbowgang97153 жыл бұрын
@@samhartje723 you clearly have no clue about this subject. Wilt led the league in rebounds and assists in 67 you need to be looking at Wilt 62 season
@samhartje7233 жыл бұрын
@@elbowgang9715 Wilt fished for assists out of spite for the media because they kept perpetuating the fact that he's an extremely selfish player that doesn't elevate his teammates. Also, I don't want to play the “his era was full of short white guys” card, but he was by far the most physically imposing player besides a few anomalies like Russell and Kareem, which is why all of his stats are inflated, along with the extremely high pace of the league. Please don't ever disregard my initial comment by stating that I don't understand the situation, it’s not a very good argument and it makes you look like a dummy.
@coachwane3 жыл бұрын
@@samhartje723 Gail Goodrich and Hal Greer both had their best scoring seasons in terms of production and efficiency with Wilt Chamberlain on their team. Once Wilt left you can see their efficiency decrease by a significant margin. So can we really say Wilt didn't make his teammates better uhmmmm. Happy Hairston had his highest scoring averages next to Wilt Chamberlain, wilt retires his scoring dips. Happy Hairston never Broke 13 rebounds a game despite playing in the faster pace league in the early 60s, Playing next to Wilt, Wilt showed him how to rebound and boom 13 board for the 3 seasons straight. Look at Elign Baylors Fg%, out of his five most efficient seasons #1, #3 and #5 came playing with whom Wilt Chamberlain, he also had back to back Highest assist per games with Wilt. Jerry West five years with Wilt he average 26.6 ppg on 48.4% with 8.5assists , His career without Wilt 27.7 on 46.8% with 5.5 Assists. Wilt chamberlain didn't make his teammates better is just another mythical label to place on the man legacy. All info can be found on basketball reference
@Kaitos113 жыл бұрын
Finally! Been waiting for this ever since it was announced, thanks for your work.
@johnrivera62443 жыл бұрын
This is literally the best channel on youtube
@OfficialJPryde3 жыл бұрын
Wilt was an absolute terror on defense as well.
@casualfandestroyer25033 жыл бұрын
Jonathan In 1962 Wilt won the scoring title (50 ppg), yet he lost the Game 7 of the 1962 EDF against the Celtics and got outscored by Sam Jones 28 to 22. Where was the 100 points and 50 ppg when it actually mattered? Sam Jones also hit the game winner over Wilt as the Celtics won Game 7, 109-107. Once again, keep in mind that the 1961/62 Sixers had the absolute worst defense in the league, and it was reflected in Russell's high fscoring. In the 1962 playoff series alone Bill Russell had games of 31, 31, and 29 pts in the series. Bill Russell never in his career averaged 19 ppg in a season, but he averaged over 20 ppg vs Wilt in both the 1960 and 1962 playoff series - in spite of the fact that Russell was trrrruya team-first player who usually did not need to score to dominate a game (à la Bird). In 9 playoff meetings against Russell, Wilt's ppg decreased from his regular season every time, while Russell's increased on multiple occasions.
@thisismychannel41742 жыл бұрын
@@casualfandestroyer2503 dude why do you always spam stuff in every basketball yt commen section, do something with your life
@Poopopotamusgaming Жыл бұрын
@@casualfandestroyer2503 Well yes having a better team and strategy will often lead to better numbers and worse numbers for the opposition. Russell on multiple occasions said they had to stack their team to defend Wilt alone, he was a one man wrecking crew. When he got better players around him, he scored less and passed more leading to him winning. Similar to Jordan in the 80s, at some point taking and scoring all the shots, even if efficient, hurts the team.
@loydkline Жыл бұрын
Oldie wilt Block 🚫 jabber skyhook shot bunch of times
@LoydKline-uw4no7 ай бұрын
Old Wilt block 🚫 jabber skyhook shot bunch of times ,wilt put Kareem Abdul jabber skyhook shot on the 🗑 🚮 can , knock the air out of the skyhook shot
@brendanbloom33663 жыл бұрын
Wilt was better. If Auerbach had gotten Wilt like he wanted this wouldn't even be a discussion. Wilt always ran the offense that his coach wanted. He cared about his stats but he still bought in to whatever offense his coach wanted and once he actually got other scorers in 1967 he gladly sacrificed his scoring numbers and they beat the Celtics in 5 and won the championship.
@joriansmith-sherry91483 жыл бұрын
I agree with that but because he never actually showcased that we can only speculate so imo I would still have to put russel obove him
@davidcorvin26443 жыл бұрын
Anytime Wilt had a good coach his teams set records for winning.
@rodangrahf3 жыл бұрын
the only aspect of the game that Russel was indeed BETTER, not a matter of debate like the video or anything else, was MENTALLY. Russel wanted to win, Wilt wanted to win but winning wasnt his top priority. Wilt only focused to win when he realized he was made a joke of for losing to Russel even tho he was supposed to be better. Wilt cared too much about what people thought of him and that made him weak, i think that is also what fucked up his FTs as well, cause that few seconds is where everyone was 100% focusing on him and more often than not rooting for him to miss.
@smittywerbenjagermanjensen3203 жыл бұрын
@@rodangrahf Wilt was actually a great underhand free throw shooter but he said it made him look like a "sissy" so he switched to the conventional way.
@ralphgreenwood2469Ай бұрын
Good point about Wilt cared too much about what people thought about him but I don't think you understand the kind of media assault he was subjected to.It was vicious. Few star athletes were treated as badly.As for winning people who knew him say he hated to lose so I think you got that part wrong.
@SnAkEyEs98762 жыл бұрын
Rewatching the series for the millionth time. This channel is genuinely outstanding
@PM4LxChroniicx3 жыл бұрын
Been a fan of your channel and podcast for quite a long time now, so I was expecting great things from this series given how much time you've put in these past several months. So far, you've surpassed my expectations as far as the level of in-depth analysis given as well as how clear you've made the questions that you're trying to answer. Incredibly hyped for the rest of the series now!
@aazonbrain3 жыл бұрын
Wilt was so astounding in terms of strength and talent and athletic ability. Still one of the GOATs. But he was in love with himself and tbh it's hard to blame him. It's hard not to just look at him and immediately give him the ball. He really was a Goliath--kind of the first pariah for individual, overpowering greatness so impressive that it can make people blind to how it ultimately doesn't help the team as much as you'd think when it's made to be the first offensive option. Real hubris. AND it was the first time we'd seen players like him and Russell. The head to head comparison of styles needed at least one trial run for us to understand which style worked better in terms of team success. We had to learn through practice. AND it took a long time afterwards anyway to go much further than basic stats, pointing to championships, and the eye test!
@night6724 Жыл бұрын
Russell had better teammates and Wilt’s coaches always just ran a gameplan of “get wilt the ball” unlike Red Aubach
@11DowningStreet5 ай бұрын
@@night6724with Russell they won 11 rings and were the best defense and team in the league. without russell they were ass on defense and didn't make the playoffs. wilt's hero ball didn't work, as the video showed. only when he scored less did he see success
@night67245 ай бұрын
@@11DowningStreet no they weren’t that’s a lie. Maybe later on but not early on. In fact in his rookie year, because he was at the Olympics he missed a third of the season and the Celtics actually did better without him versus when he finally debuted. Now obviously he didn’t drag the team down but it certainly doesn’t make the case he was the key to success
@night67245 ай бұрын
@@11DowningStreet Also despite wilt’s scoring his teammates did get their touch’s. Paul Azarin still had like 24 points per game (roughly equal to his career average) in his couple of years with Wilt before retirement
@11DowningStreet5 ай бұрын
@@night6724 in 55-56 the Celtics had a 54% win percentage and had the 3rd worst defense. in 56-57 the celtics had a 61% win percentage, the best defensive rating and best net rating, and the highest margin of victory, and went on to win the championship that year. from 1957-69 the Celtics had a 72% win percentage with Russell, and were .500 without him if you watched the video you would also see that russell leads wilt in WOWYR. he made his teammates better. if you also watched the video you wouldn't be telling me that the Celtics being at worst a top 2 defense was a lie. wilt was a good floor raiser with his scoring, obviously that helps but im literally correct when i say that he won chips when he scored less and passed more. if you watched the video you can see his team's had more success when he had a lower true shot attempt to assist ratio
@yodathewiser153 жыл бұрын
Ben your content is so good, thank you ❤️
@piusherbert2 жыл бұрын
this is so incredibly captivating
@peat381low83 жыл бұрын
Why couldn't any other player play as many minutes as Wilt? The fact that no player didn't is amazing in of itself. At one point Wilt was averaging 70 points a game in the 62' season. Why wouldn't you pass it to Wilt?
@andreingramakadjscrewrip73723 жыл бұрын
You don't need to keep playing once you're up by 30 and the game is about to be over. Granted, that wasn't always the case but the inverse (that EVERY game was close and down to the wire) wasn't true either
@markarmage37762 жыл бұрын
@@andreingramakadjscrewrip7372 If you think any player can just go play 48 minutes, scoring 60-70 points, you're insane. Even the best superstars need to get a rest even when they're not leading. Even in the playoff championship game, they can't play 48 minutes, there's a limit to human physique. Chamberlain far surpasses the average professional athletes.
@mihirrao243 жыл бұрын
I agree with everything here, but there's one small gap in your reasoning regarding Wilt's team offenses. The Lakers offense in the early 70s was sky high because of Jerry West. That can't be entirely attributed to Wilt embracing a Bill Walton role.
@TheRealAbraxas2 жыл бұрын
this video also conveniently ignores the fact that Wilt lead the league in FG% a whopping 10 fucking times, while putting up these massive numbers. For reference, Wilt and MJ are the only players to average 30 ppg for their careers, yet MJ's peak FG% was 10th in the NBA. Wilt was a WILDLY efficient player
@sethhornbaker22163 жыл бұрын
Russell was an amazing player and nobody could play defense at his level. Russell and Wilt were so good they were the only real opponents for each other
@michaelscalzo67162 жыл бұрын
Incredible video, watching your content really expands my knowledge of the game
@pau67623 жыл бұрын
Awesome video as always Mr. Taylor. I’m very excited to see where you Walton among the Mikans and Abdul-Jabbars of his time. I hope you revisit this series over the next few years so that we can definitely say that Lu Dort’s 2 year peak is the highest of all time!
@LukePhillips943 жыл бұрын
I think when analysing Wilt's offence like this, you have to consider his teammates and coaches. Let's be honest, if he had great teammates during his prime, he would've won more. Also, for what it's worth Russell only averaged 37% from the floor against Wilt. Interesting video!
@casualfandestroyer25033 жыл бұрын
Luke Phillips Looking back, Wilt had five chances to knock Near ready to retire bill Russell out of the playoffs in ‘68 (3-1 lead ) and ‘69 (3-2 lead ) with a superior team-including two game 7s at home-and only needed to submit one monster performance to pull it off.Each time, he couldn’t do it .Each time , Russell’s inferior team prevailed.Each time wilt whines about it afterward. If Jerry west was MR clutch , than wilt was MR crutch
@casualfandestroyer25033 жыл бұрын
Luke Phillips In 8 playoff meetings against Russell, Wilt's ppg decreased from his regular season every time, while Russell's increased on multiple occasions.
@MrSuperman9572 жыл бұрын
@@casualfandestroyer2503 But Wilt's Stats were still better than Bill's. Like most of the time. Across the board, when you compare them head to head, Wilt was better
@geordiejones56182 жыл бұрын
@@MrSuperman957 and thats all Wilt has. Like Kareem said he's remembered as a loser, stats and all. He cared more about that than being the best teammate which he only learned from 67-72. He had the best two teams in the league during that time and blew series leads to Russell and got shown up by Reed and Kareem before finally winning his 2nd.
@MrSuperman9572 жыл бұрын
@@geordiejones5618 You're acting like it was his fault that his team shot 30% from the field when he had a "good" team. If you read his biography, his team was hampered by injuries in 1968. Or that he was old and blew a knee (losing his lateral movement) in 1969. If he hadn't hurt his knee, he would have won from 1969-1971 And Kareem changed his tune ages ago. Wilt is not remembered as a loser. That's only casual talk. Most Basketball enthusiasts remember him as the most dominance force in NBA history. People from that time (including his adversary Russell) remember him as a crazy force who they were regularly scared of getting embarrassed by. (like the 55 rebounds game that left Bill distraught) Man won 2 rings. If he's a loser, then literally everyone in the Celtics era is a loser too. And you forget that an old Wilt with a busted knee won decisively against Kareem in their last playoff battle enroute to his second chip. It was on the papers everywhere And he always cared about winning. People forget that his coach was the one who asked him to score 50 a game that season. It wasn't his decision
@rollotomasi40453 жыл бұрын
'Russell was a coach on the floor, a forward thinker with respect to value of team possessions and using his athleticism to change the game, and treated his teammates like family. And he totally respected Red Auerbach as a coach, GM and person and vice versa. Auerbach had no issue starting 5 black players and was way ahead the curve with respect to talent evaluation and understanding the game. With Russell and Auerbach, the Celtics had the most stable team culture in the league. And Russell's self-worth and pride as a basketball player came from his team winning. 'Wilt was a genetic freak in terms of strength, speed and leaping ability along with his overall size. He was a track and field star in high school and college and had the same individual mentality when competing in the NBA. 'Wilt's mix of: - frame (7'1" height without shoes, 275 lbs, 92 inch wingspan, 9.5 inch width/11.5 length hands), - athletic ability (able to touch the top of the backboard, ran 100 yard dash in 10.9 sec in college, did 180 lb tricep extensions with the Lakers in his mid '30s) and - skill (good touch on hooks, fallaway shots and finger rolls, solid passer from the post and on outlets, elite rebounder, shot blocker and post defender) 'was way ahead of his peers at the center position (with the exception of Russell) during his early years in the league. So you combine the athleticism, talent and individualist attitude (obsessed over personal stats, deflected the blame onto his teammates and coach, preferred living a full life than being obsessed with competition)...Wilt was not considered a player's coach, unselfish teammate or someone who placed his team's overall performance and victory on the top of his priority list with his self-worth as a basketball player. Honestly, if Wilt didn't give a crap about everyone's perception of him, he could have unleashed the beast and just dunked on everyone like Shaq and led his team to multiple titles...even Russell admits this in interviews. It's why he was always nice to Wilt and tried not to get him angry. 'So all in all, Wilt had the higher peak and Russell had the better career. Russell knew who he was from day 1 and Wilt could never make up his mind.
@ralphgreenwood2469Ай бұрын
What happened in 1967?
@ralphgreenwood2469Ай бұрын
Nonsense take.Russell just had the better team best in the League every year except 67 when he got trounced 4-1 and 68 when he was losing 3-1 and Cunningham went down with injury and the Celts pulled it out.
@reotseng32993 жыл бұрын
Thank you! I’ve been waiting for this.
@private-nobody6667 Жыл бұрын
One Huge Point Ben misses (and many other young bucks who don't know what happened back then): During Wilt's scoring years, the owner pushed the point for Wilt to score because he was the highest paid, and he wanted Wilt to sell tickets (all about money, not winning). Ben and others make it seem that Wilt did that on his own; no, that is not true. Coaches did not like it either but they had to submit to the owner. Another key point that is not considered by Ben (and others who did not see the games): Especially during the playoffs, the refs let other teams kill Wilt with intentionally uncalled heavy fouls; after games, Wilt was bruised up--visibly, which kept his scoring down in the playoffs. I am an old-head from Philly who saw Wilt play, read the papers, and listened to the radio (which was big back then); you young guys only see snippets of his play and are swayed by biased reporting that was heavily against Wilt (the press really did not like Wilt, who was a proud black man who spoke his mind, a bad trait to the white press back in those overtly racist days); listen to those who played with and against Wilt or those who seem both Wilt and MJ, they say Wilt is the GOAT. The style of play back then is not Wilt's fault. Ben makes Wilt's stamina a negative. @risingschool234 makes great points to further debunk Ben's biased reporting.
@THEsoulquarian8 ай бұрын
Good points, I wasn’t aware of any of that.
@LoydKline-uw4no7 ай бұрын
Wilt average 50s points average 1961/ 1962, then 1962/ 1963 wilt average 44s point a game , I hear wilt was a much better defender when his scoring average went down
@alejandreijazzlopez54983 жыл бұрын
"When an unstoppable force meets an immovable object".
@BladeintheBrain3 жыл бұрын
I'm always having a great day when Thinking Basketball uploads :)
@nblade663 жыл бұрын
Damn, those 18 minutes just flew by. This was amazing, and I wish all nba fans followed this channel
@TheRealAbraxas2 жыл бұрын
Wilt’s efficiency was out of this world. MJ’s peak fg% was 10th in the NBA. Wilt was 1st in fg% in the NBA 10 times.
@Chillboyhaad2 жыл бұрын
He’s a center
@TheRealAbraxas Жыл бұрын
@@Chillboyhaad doesn’t matter. He scored the ball extremely efficiently WHILE scoring a ton of points. Most centers are only capable of shooting extremely efficiently because they catch and dunk and are high usage players. Wilt was extremely high usage and extremely efficient
@Chillboyhaad Жыл бұрын
@@TheRealAbraxas You can't compare FG% across different positions because a center is always going to have the highest FG%. eFG% and TS% are more effective in determining the more efficient player.
@TheRealAbraxas Жыл бұрын
@@Chillboyhaad you bring up TS%… then why does Shaq get a tremendous amount of credit for being an unstoppable scorer, leading the league in FG% 10 times, when he was a shitty free throw shooter. When Wilt is the only other player to lead the league in FG% 10 times and was a shitty free throw shooter. Yet Wilt was a finesse scorer that shot fadeaways, finger rolls, you can find clips of him doing the dream shake. His dominant scoring was much more impressive than Shaq’s
@williepep-fy7qm Жыл бұрын
@@TheRealAbraxas wilt FT% lost his team lots of close games bill russell shot 68% in his elimination games not 45% like wilt
@pablogonzalo33303 жыл бұрын
First of all the pace was in average 126 in 1962, not 130 as you suggest. Second, using per 75 possessions is very innacurate here, having a guy play all 80 games, 48 minutes every game, in a pace of 126 possessions, in one of, if not the most, physical eras of basketball while playing with rules that made is really hard to play ofense is not comparable to playing way less games, way less minutes, with way less physicality in a much slower pace with incredibly diferent rules that make it way easier than in the 60s to play the whole ofense. Then you compare the shots attempted to assists numbers in an era that clearly made it very hard compared to the 80s and onward to rack up assists, if you compare assists acredited in the 60s to the ones acredited in the 80s, 90s, 00s and 10s you'll see how big of a diference there was in rules regarding assists, many actions we consider assists nowadays were nowhere near the definition of assists in the 60s, so that stat is again vert innacurate and missleading here. Then you say when showing the axis graphic that the coach changed the style with better players around him, and that is again extremely innacurate, as in the Warriors Wilt had the 4th or 5th best pg of the decade in Guy Rodgers, a top 3 sg of the decade in Gola and a player that had been the 1st option and best player in a championship team years before in Paul Arizin. What changed was aside from the team the coach, Wilt had pretty average and bad coaches with the Warriors that only wanted to run the ofense thruough him, but on the 76ers he had an all time great coach in Alex Hannum, probably a top 10 coach all time, and a team that fitted the style Hannum implemented much better than the Warriors' roster did with the system they had when Wilt was there. The graphic of all-stars per team is wrong too, as there was a rule throughout most of the decade (if not all of it) that didn't allow teams to have more than 3 all-stars each year, the years that the Lakers and Celtics had 4 all-stars each team had 3 players selected but 1 was substitited by a teammate because they were injured and couln't play. Also why the 76ers had 1 year 1/4 of an all-star and another year 1/2 of an all-star? Then comparing per 36 minutes to today's game has the same problems as the ones I mentioned about the per 75 pos
@emmanuelmoses72493 жыл бұрын
Best basketball channel on KZfaq 💯
@vulturefps64513 жыл бұрын
I like this new series, looking forward to watching all of it!
@ouss3 жыл бұрын
These two opposing philosophy of basketball still clashes: iso vs teamball passing Harden vs Curry Kobe vs Duncan/Nash 2014 Finals
@RLSmith-jt8qj3 жыл бұрын
the 2014 finals had the 2 best passing teams in the league.
@libraalibaba3 жыл бұрын
@@RLSmith-jt8qj Yh except one team spread the assist numbers significantly more. While the other was top heavy.
@Youngster5432103 жыл бұрын
@@RLSmith-jt8qj Based on what? The Heat were 11th in the league in assists and had an extremely ball dominant centerpiece.
@itsyaboyjay24312 жыл бұрын
14:06 Damn Bill Dunked on Wilt 👀
@jbellflower832 жыл бұрын
Would love to see a series between those 60s dynasty Celtics and the showtime Lakers of the 80s. Maybe the best defense ever vs maybe the best offense ever. I'm sure it would be wildly entertaining.
@loydkline Жыл бұрын
1960s bill Russell boston celtic vs 1970 Willis reed & NY Knicks super great matchup
@ignaciovelosobahamondes27443 жыл бұрын
It will be interesting to se how you analyze players like Kareem (whose "peak" is really difficult to narrow down because he was so consistent for so long), Isaiah Thomas (I don't know if he would qualify, but the fact that his statistical peak doesn't line up with his more successful years is super interesting) and LeBron James (whose peak is also kinda weird, at least in my opinion, because his play has evolved a lot and he has dominated in very different ways in different stages of his career). Also, I'd be really excited to watch an episode about Larry Bird, since he is one of my absolute favorite players ever, but his prime was sadly cut short. I'm really looking forward to this series!
@daviesugo76413 жыл бұрын
Why didn't he add the defensive impact of Wilt. Cause Wilt was also a great defender
@alonedownthere473 жыл бұрын
this! wilt's teams would have won more if they surrounded him with good defenders like the celtics front office did with bill, the only takeaway isn't just that wilt was overrated and should've shot less
@casualfandestroyer25033 жыл бұрын
@@alonedownthere47 Russell played with four members of the NBA's Top 50 at 50 (Havlicek, Cousy, Sharman, and Sam Jones); Wilt played with six members (Baylor, West, Greer, Cunningham, Arizin, and Thurmond). And Russell's teammates from 1957 to 1969 were selected to twenty-six All-Star games, while Wilt's teammates from 1960 to 1973 were selected to twenty-four. Let's never mention the supporting-cast card again with Russell and Chamberlain. Thank you. Wilt never was the leading scorer in the finals when he won In fact he was the 5th leading scorer in the 1967 finals 5th LEADING SCORER ON HIS OWN TEAM ALONE, wilts game was never that of a winner bill was the more clutch cerebral player 3 times in the finals he averaged 20+ PPG and another finals series he had 70%FG on near 20 PPG,
@LukePhillips943 жыл бұрын
@@casualfandestroyer2503 Russell played with all stars during his and their primes. Wilt didn't play with legit stars or a great coach until he went to the Lakers.
@lloydkline69463 жыл бұрын
@@alonedownthere47 billy Cunningham got hurt in 1967/1968 nba season hurt chances for repeat,, Boston celtic had the perfect teams in teams 1960s , young willis reed/ny knicks could have beaten 35 years bill Russell/Boston celtic 1969 championship team,
@lloydkline69463 жыл бұрын
@@casualfandestroyer2503 nate Thurmond & wilt played together very long, Jerry west &elgin baylor were getting old especially elgin baylor knee surgery knees, getting wilt was not free, gail Goodrich got traded, etc etc, Paul Arizin was very old too
@itsdreamy37043 жыл бұрын
Im fckin watching this for free omfg thank you so much!
@jeremyellismusic3 жыл бұрын
Big thumbs up for the Ben Wallace mention and footage. His blocks were so much more than blocks. They were demoralizing and constant. Sometimes at the end of games, he and Rasheed would keep giving the Pistons tap out rebounds and the other team wouldn't even touch the ball for entire minutes. Pistons fans loved it, but it made for horrible TV for everyone else. You should do a video about all the rule changes the league made to make sure great defensive teams didn't make it to the Finals. AKA, the 3 or 4 times the league changed the rules because the Pistons were whomping on popular teams.
@odokawa12 жыл бұрын
As a young dude getting into basketball, this videos really helped me understand the reason why these guys are regarded as greats
@brendankelly26532 жыл бұрын
I think these 2 guys are the very few that got over 50 rebounds in one game. Both legends.
@davidquinn26513 жыл бұрын
You realize with 4 teams in a conference and pretty much a limit of 3 stars per team, teams had basically the same number of all-stars.
@MrSuperman9572 жыл бұрын
@@waffle.maker11 It's not about all-stars. It's about Hall of Famers in their prime. Take the 1960 playoffs. Wilt had 4 including himself whilst Bill had 7. 2 of Wilt's guys were old, and the other was in his second season. Dude was unlucky. Either caught HOFers at the start of their careers or towards the end. The exception would be the 76ers where he won a chip and beat Bill 4-1. With equal talent, he came on top
@Papichulo-xc5nd2 жыл бұрын
@@MrSuperman957 wilts teams had a better record 4/8 times he matched up with Russell, still lost 7/8 times
@MrSuperman9572 жыл бұрын
@@Papichulo-xc5nd And it was mostly the team's fault like in 1968 when the team shot 33% lol. He shot way higher than them Regular season and playoffs are different
@alecsanderhamilton92243 жыл бұрын
Halfway thru the video I think I'm convinced to change my all time top 2 to Airness than Russell, instead of Wilt no. 2 behind Mike.
@casualfandestroyer25033 жыл бұрын
Alecsander Hamilton Wilt = 24.5 rpg in 47 mpg for the playoffs Russell = 24.9 rpg in 45 mpg for the playoffs Russell delivered the rebounds when they mattered, in less minutes, compared to Wilt In 1963, Wilt averaged 45-24 in the season and won the scoring + rebounding titles, but his team didn't get a ticket to the playoffs with the worst defense in the league (most opponents' ppg allowed) for the 2nd consecutive season.
@hsm49833 жыл бұрын
I love this series. Its been so educational! I have a request: would you mind creating a series for the best off ball/hybrid/connective tissue players in modern NBA history? Say Pippen, Rodman, Draymond Green, Ginobili, etc. A fun thought experiment is thinking ab what the best possible all time team could be. And, that means not just the best players, but the best players who could mesh well together. Having listened and learned so much from you ab whats made great players great, I'd rly love to learn from your perspective on that group of great players not necessarily viewed as all timers but who made championships happen. If you don't mind, I'm rly curious for your perspective on those maybe slightly less celebrated all time greats who helped mesh great individual running mates into great teams.
@carloszambrano12103 жыл бұрын
Long time listener first time caller..really feels like you've taken another step recently it's great to see. Not to say that it hasnt always been fantastic but just that the presentation is getting so good
@naturalfinish3 жыл бұрын
Wilt averaged 50 per game regular season that year, but only 35 a game in the play offs. Yikes
@sailaw3070 Жыл бұрын
“Only 35”
@chrissullivan65723 жыл бұрын
Watched it on Patreon already, finna watch it again and again till the next one comes out
@theofficialtris34543 жыл бұрын
yes! series like this and Clayton Crowley's Making the Case are the best sort of analytical videos out there!
@alvinokamara3733 жыл бұрын
Awesome video, yet give me Wilt any day of the week 🤷🏻♂️
@fidanasimpson54653 жыл бұрын
Yes, to start an NBA game and to never come out during the entire game for year is astounding! Think about it, running up and down the court during that time with the style of basketball that they played back then shows you the type of incredible physical stamina that Chamberlain possessed.
@casualfandestroyer25033 жыл бұрын
@@fidanasimpson5465 In 1962 Wilt won the scoring title (50 ppg), yet he lost the Game 7 of the 1962 EDF against the Celtics and got outscored by Sam Jones 28 to 22. Where was the 100 points and 50 ppg when it actually mattered? Sam Jones also hit the game winner over Wilt as the Celtics won Game 7, 109-107. Once again, keep in mind that the 1961/62 Sixers had the absolute worst defense in the league, and it was reflected in Russell's high fscoring. In the 1962 playoff series alone Bill Russell had games of 31, 31, and 29 pts in the series. Bill Russell never in his career averaged 19 ppg in a season, but he averaged over 20 ppg vs Wilt in both the 1960 and 1962 playoff series - in spite of the fact that Russell was trrrruya team-first player who usually did not need to score to dominate a game (à la Bird). In 9 playoff meetings against Russell, Wilt's ppg decreased from his regular season every time, while Russell's increased on multiple occasions.
@lloydkline15182 жыл бұрын
Playoff basketball is different ; with zone type defense any big can be contrilled in the nba or college;;
@JeyDub083 жыл бұрын
Random thought: Is Bam Adebayo the closest thing we have to Bill Russell today in terms of overall skillset/playstyle? Undersized center that is uber athletic compared to their competition Both are switchable / can guard a variety of positions (all though Russell didn't switch all too often because of the way basketball was played back then) Both are great playmakers for their position They both can run the fast break after grabbing a rebound and finish at the hoop or make a great pass
@NothingElseMattersJM3 жыл бұрын
BIll Russell was an elite passer and rebounder don’t forget