I gave it my gmail but still haven't gotton it why not just post the sheet to your link instead of having to email it to us

@@visivoo3845 He's trying to make a living. Lists of validated email addresses of people with some known specific interest are valuable in a variety of ways. His emailer seems to have a bit of a delay associated with it. Slightly ironic for a Rust advocate!

I see what you did there

@@saadahmed688 not if the Rust Foundation has anything to say about it 🤜👀

I too see w hat ya did there

C programmers are eating their popcorns looking at the fire right now

plot twist, there's a c-mole in the rust foundation leadership.

I don't think they will, but I wish they do

That won't happen.

what are some of the requirements to just get a interview for rust junior position?, degree? , some projects?,

Poor management ruining amazing engineering work, is the most consistently repeating theme in history since the advent of engineering.

@@iamvalenci4 git gud... ez

Keep it up. It'll keep getter better. Everyone makes mistakes. Every community is flawed.

Same, been learning it for a few weeks.

This will all blow over. Even Python had its drama.

Make no mistake, the language itself is great

Same

Keeping something Open Source without greed/opinionated leadership is a struggle. Only few do it well, like Khronos and Blender.

Once investors throw their money at something they didn't invent, they start walking around like they own it. This is the cycle of greed.

@@T1Oracle Ok that can and definitely does happen, but is it true of what happened in the Rust leadership, or is this strictly due to Rust leadership acting like fucking idiots?

I agree, it is embarrassing

@@stysner4580 Opinionated leadership is not really a problem. Greed isn't either if it is smart. The problem is big corporations wanting to control everything and stupid people doing their biding because they think these companies are their "allies".

If not. You just wasted your time.

@@vectoralphaAI No I think rust makes you think differently, eitherway its good to check out the language

@@vectoralphaAI Impossible: Rust concepts are easily applicable to other languages (even on C/C++, because the borrow checker is literally just forced RAII). Even in garbage-collected language (paying the performance cost that is) you can apply Rust concepts of monads. Very good language to learn even if you don't plan to work with it at your daily job.

@@WolfrostWasTaken I disagree, the waste of time by putting confidence and love into a lang will not be the same as always remembering it just because turned to become a relic

@@snk-js I don't kinda get your point, could you try to explain it again?

I was wondering what is that?

​@@electrolyteorb an eye patch. A modern, temporary one.

@@ChrisD__ thanks for enlightening me...

Ditto

what happened i just found out about the channel

SJWs. It's all about politics and rules lawyering and ideological conformity. Nothing is apolitical, everything must support Marxism or must be ejected.

I think this comment is typical of how far too many Devs think. It takes designers, lawyers, ethicists, and evangelists to make a software project. And yet Devs see this all as bloat.

@@eldrago19 No, it doesn't. Those people don't make a damn thing. They are support personnel at most, and that's only the lawyers and designers. The rest are trash that can go straight into the can.

@@eldrago19 I'm pretty sure we think this way because it happens time and again. Can a software project use lawyers, designers, ethicists, and evangelists - maybe - but when these people get more say than the devs actually writing code then the project isn't sustainable - because in the end it is a software project, and the software is built by developers.

Exactly

I hope he gets well soon.

Yeah, that was quite the reveal! I hope he is okay too!

Honestly, after I saw that covered eye, I couldn't pay attention to what you were saying! Hope you get well soon! 😮

Exactly! I was like "WTH??? what happened?"

I thought it was a repercussion on the current state of rustlang.

Thank you, it should be healed soon!

Yes dude, get well soon 👍

Appreciate the kind words!

Agree. I think people have/had high expectations and did not see this coming.

I mostly agree and I have great hopes for the language, but one thing that IMO goes beyond the typical messiness of interpersonal communication is Core Team excluding itself from oversight by the Mod Team. If this is not addressed now it will fester into a much bigger problem eventually. Could be next year, could be in five years -- but sooner or later this will become an issue that by then will have grown beyond any hope of fixing.

@@MPSmaruj I'm not sure that Core Team's decision is such a bad thing. They're called Core Team for a reason after all. They are dedicated people, not a bunch of ignorant teenagers. And I can't believe for a minute that they opted out of control without a good reason. Oversight can be so harsh that it gets in a way of normal team dynamic. For example, if you have an opinionated guy on your team who's constantly allowing terrible code into the main repo. Normally thing will heat up, then the guy would be kicked out, then things will settle down again. Bad publicity? Sure. Effective? Yes. Now imagine the same process with a set of "nicety rules" imposed. You cannot pressure, you cannot blame, you cannot say this, you cannot say that. This will eventually lead to people who Really Cared, leaving the team. Because when you do care, that means you have feelings. And feelings sometimes lead to heated discussions. And these arguments, not niceties, eventually make things better.

​@@KirillMavreshko I understand your standpoint but moderation != supervision. Disclaimer: I haven't looked into operation of the rust teams beyond watching the video. But a team moderating the other teams for bad behavior and rule braking is positive and a team declaring themselves as above that moderation is basically equivalent to a government party declaring that it will stand above the law and ignore the police. The core team is important, but it's not the monarchy of the rust project. It needs to be moderated like any other team.

Why are you trying to downplay this with a bunch of bullshit sophistry? Don't worry? Fine, but this is something to *pay attention to.* Every collaboration is messy? Not so. And certainly, not equally so. The mess has consequences. It should be addressed, not passively accepted as an inevitable fact of life. We should make an effort to understand what happened and make choices based on our individual values. People will find a way? Some people are finding a way *out.* For some, this is the end of the road, not a trivial bump to forget in a week or two. For everyone else, this is hampering. Events like this suck the oxygen out of the room. The project might not die but don't pretend there aren't real world consequences.

I agree, it's insane what politicians can do 😄

You don't waste your time anyway. You are getting understanding of great programming language principles which will be implemented somewhere in case of rust fail. Most valuable things in programming are underlying key principles, not their implementation

@@Chastor97 well said.

You are not, Rust can always be forked :)

@@Chastor97 totally agree on this, it had served me well with 2 decades of career.

Same with me. 😊

Funny, I was thinking a similar thing like the fork called MariaDb and that other database I used to use and forgot about.

What's vrnl?

what "other modern languages"?

Most successful languages are corporate backed. Even CNCF and The Linux Foundation are heavily backed by corporations. So why does corporate money lead to all of this drama in the Rust Foundation?

a taste of money, LOLS

As something that could have been the replacement for C++, it is sad to see this come about. Now they have a perception problem which is hard to overcome.

Rust itself was the main hindrance to mass adoption.

Well, what will they do next? Will you have to license it? You never know what could be subject to change.

@@wjrasmussen666 you cannot retroactively license free and open source software, its already on your system you own a modifiable copy of it.

@@Ryan-xq3kl Yes but owning code that you aren't able to update immediately becomes tech debt to be replaced and rewritten. If they lock the language as it is now and many orgs and people couldn't update due to licensing issues, it would effectively kill your ability to use the language properly. It needs to be able to evolve.

This is why you shouldn't jump on a bandwagon as it goes by.

​@@khatdubell What makes Rust a bandwagon?

Is this a good time to mention that even C has garbage collection? You've got many options, but you could use the Boehm GC which has existed for over 30 years now, or you could always use atexit() in all of your allocations or you could use a pool allocator technique, or even the no-allocation technique.

As a c++/ python programmer can't wait for the mojo programming language to be released amd become mainstream.

At least they DID apologize.

Consensus is actually a bullshit way of not having a properly accountable leader. You cannot magically create a consensus model from the same incompetence pool with the same people..

Very true, politics (and bureaucracy) have been major hindrances to innovation in technology, they don't mix at all.

Seem like this might be a case of that. Very sad.

@@stacklysm lol. no. total wrong. both politics and bureaucracy are necessary. you seem very confused. the issue was LACK of proper bureaucracy, and lack of organizational management of political issues. anarky and lack of proper procedures, rules, guidlings and bureaucracy IS THE PROBLEM. lol. you apparntly all totally missed the point. fools think "bureaucracy" is some evil things. its not. its extremely important. it needs to be done correctly. and with transparency, and governable.

​@@voyageproper The decisions of the Rust Foundation were so misplaced and stupid that I just wrote my comment in anger and left. I do recognize that administration (when done right) is essential to any project of any size, I'm no fool, I just wasn't thinking straight. Although, some kinds of politics (the ones you've mentioned) are infinite times more useful than others (which isn't the case here with Rust, but still)

@@voyageproper Bureaucracy is normal administration gone wrong. Politics are thought to be ok only by those who agree with the current supported ideology and are too shortsighted to understand that even this imagined good may not last.

I agree with everything except the Crab-lang thing. IMHO, this is premature. There's no real reason to do it now, there's nothing preventing doing it later. For now, working on Crab-Lang is a waste of ressources. But it could serve as a shot across the bow - expressing towards the project / leadership: "If you don't behave / work properly, we can do without you"

@@brdrnda3805 I think that's exactly why it's not premature, having different fronts to "fight" in case of need and to pass on a message. Their job will only be to keep the branches updated with Rust's own (it doesn't incur great maintenance and/or development costs) and to change the names of some things in order to allow the fork to be differentiated. This also allows insecure and hysterical people to continue using the language in one form or another for the time being, and if in the future they improve that fork may be abandoned (or even become something new, competition is also good for a language).

Yes but disagreements that can cost companies millions of dollars. So it's a big deal.

@@vectoralphaAI I see no scenario where that would be the case with the current "controversies"

what? no one "over buroeactized it" you people dont seem to know what bureaucracy is. it was the LACK of bureaucracy, the lack of proper proticals and following of guildnes, and the clearly incompoted and isolated leadership. which was not engaged with the community. for a orginztion to be suessful it NEEDS bureaucracy. and it needs one which is effective and responcive. not anakry. what rust has is a small group of "unaccountbale leaders" which is totally opposed to the concepts of a proper transparent bureaucratizes system.

@voyageproper bureaucracy doesn't make anything transparent or accountable inherently

Get ziggy wit it

They waited a pretty long time to incorporate Rust and now this happens, I don't think "kicking out" would get more aggressive than "no new modules in Rust" if it happens at all (why waste someone else's work), unless Rust tries to mess with licensing... Hey, also learning Zig.

In this case it literally belongs to them. I have to follow their code of conduct to use the language

@@astronemir no, you have to follow the code of conduct to participate in *official* rust community spaces. the code itself (including forks) are governed by the dual Apache 2.0 / MIT license. No one can stop the community from forking the project.

@@astronemir Don't spread easily disprovable misinformation; if that were true (and even without asking how licenses work), then how is it possible for Crablang to exist?

@@monadic_monastic69 100%. Btw what exactly is a monad? Hahaha good meme

@@gabrock55 A monad is something that transforms as a tensor.

C++ is dead by they do not want to admit it. They keep adding features to the language that was already huge 15 years ago, trying to modernize it but the backward compatibility holds them down. It is true that there is a huge code base but how many new projects are written in it?

@@alexanderoransky7601 omniverse, unreal engine still uses it. Also c# is good alternative. Which is fast also.

@@alexanderoransky7601 Then why are AI startups like DeepMind using it? They could have easily chose RUST.

Too early to bet on Zig. Let's wait at least 20 years.

If rumors (can't verify) are true, some had dropped Rust. Might be false information. If anyone can verify that information that would be great.

@@wjrasmussen666 what information? which companies are you talking about?

I know where you're coming from, but realistically, some of us said that about Java once.

Lol! That's a pretty bold claim! But by all means, keep daydreaming 😊

@@sdwone everything begins with dreaming

@@InMemoryOfNeo Indeed! But I really can't see new generations of computer languages taking hold until oldies (like me!) die out first! Unless I'm forced to, I honestly have neither the time, nor the energy to keep up with all these new languages that keep popping up! NO language is perfect! And rather than keep on reinventing that wheel, I would rather just work with what we have! And the C family of languages (C, C++ and C#) suits me just fine! I would rather live in a world in which we have to master just a small handful of languages, than one in which we have to master 100s of languages, because that will only lead to chaos. But hey... I guess only Time will tell how things will eventually pan out! However, people claiming that old languages like C and C++ will die out is nothing new! People have been making such claims for a VERY long time... And yet these languages are STILL thriving! Computer languages, just like human languages, are stubborn beasts! I mean there are plenty of people that believe we should all be trying to learn Mandarin, because China looks set to become the dominate superpower within 50 years... But even if that is the case, I can't see people abandoning English! That is WAY too much effort!!! Similar situation with established computer languages. So yeah, those of us who are already established with old languages, will find it VERY difficult to make the switch. So I guess it's all about what languages will the younger generations adopt. And if they start to adopt Rust in droves then MAYBE this language has a chance to become dominate in the next generation or two. But that is hardly the near future!

I'm curious about Rust but keep working in C++. These strange Rust non-programming things look like batsh*t