I panicked for a second there

0:21 it's com/0atman not com:0atman

@@CaptainOfDoom must have left something unwrapped then.

@@pedrobraz2809 well spotted! I muddled up git/http address obviouly, woops!

I was wondering if there was a new permissable link format

Likewise friend, thank you so much :-)

Lol

same

@@NoBoilerplate Thanks doc 👨‍⚕️

My Friend who doesnt like Rust that much went "Oh, its just Rust D sucking" when I sent her this channel lmao

Rust's incredible isn't it? Though the syntax highlighting is down to the editor, I found that most editors highlight it really well! And of course once the web frameworks (like yew.rs) become more mature, folks will write editor plugins that highlight the html really well, just as JSX has!

@@NoBoilerplate rsx for the win

@@warpspeedscp Really great standard here crates.io/crates/syn-rsx/reverse_dependencies

@@NoBoilerplate wow, i didn't realise people were already working on thos

@@warpspeedscp Yeah! The macro I demoed in the video uses syn-rsx behind the scenes, loads do!

"Hold my beer"

and the most infamous sentence continues: "...once we resolve the 5-year-old soundness issues in this laundry list of systems"

@@KohuGaly example?

@@mannycalavera121 there is quite a bit of soundness issues, but they don’t really affect real code

@@qwertyqwerty-jp8pr give me an example

that = true

Still watching declarative macros 2.0 though, stuff looks a lot cleaner, shinier, and more consistent with the module system.

@@raffimolero64 Yeah, declarative macros 2.0 looks so much better! Can't wait for it to be in stable

I though i was the only one that read it as "MACRO RULES!" It always sounded like a joke to me

@@daishes Half the time it's precisely that, other half it's like the fundamental rules of the universe.

RIGHT

Right! As I say in a few of my earlier videos, as a python developer, I didn't care about memory safety at all - I never had to! It's a bad selling point when there are 10 other LIFE CHANGING features to talk about :-)

@@NoBoilerplate Totally. Looking forward to watching more of your content! Again, just absolutely loving the no-nonsense, straight-forward and balanced approach you have to topics.

Fantastic! It's not the easiest language to learn, my biggest advice is to read the error message twice, it's usually got the answer! also: - The Rust Book - Rustlings - fasterthanli.me - the rest of my videos...! Do come chat on my discord over in #newbie-advice if you get stuck, GOOD LUCK!

@@NoBoilerplate Great recommendations. Love fasterthanlime; also Jon Gjengset.

@@NoBoilerplate Don't forget Jon Gjengset! Love his and fasterthanlime's content, it's quite in-depth yet easy to follow

The borrow checker, macros and how generics are implemented are the bumpiest parts of learning the language. Everything else is easier to understand in Rust than other languages. You will love it when your code compiles and there is almost no bugs at all in your system.

After the obligatory headache in Rust it gets better :-)

Yeah! And There's SO much more we could do!

Such a great feature THAT NO-ONE TALKS ABOUT OMG!

Lisp, Forth, Converge, Nemerle, Template Haskell, and a lot more.

@@vitalyl1327 Yeah! Great feature that I don't see why couldn't be in every language. Though Template Haskell has it's detractors.

@@vitalyl1327 Julia too! I think Julia and Rust are kindred spirits.

@@micahrufsvold yes! And Julia front-end is based on Scheme, which makes it pretty natural to extend.

Absolutely, it's a developing area, as Macros usually are. But what a feature ALREADY!

ha! AstroNvim *is* pretty great.

@@NoBoilerplate agreed One of the best neovim setups

That's so cool! Did you publish on crates.io?

@@NoBoilerplate While I could, i'm fairly certain there are better implementations out there. What I built is part of a ray tracer implementation which I learned to build from a tutorial. I found the macros on stack overflow when trying to find an elegant solution to the problem.

@@aditeya1024 ohh, please link! I'm doing the exact same thing and my vec3 file is ~300 lines of `impl Add for Vec3` etc..

@@aditeya1024 Was the tutorial "Ray Tracing in One Weekend", by any chance?

@@ZKtheMAN yes it was

Captain, it's Wednesday

EXACTLY. I'm excited by Rust because it takes most of the features I love from Lisp and Haskell and hides it inside C's clothing :-D

@@NoBoilerplate Quite frankly, imo Macros (especially Macros as powerful as LISPs) are more of a downside than an upside when working together with a lot of people. Seriously, is it so hard to use the same code for runtime and compile time generation (oh, wait, it's not, Zig has done it).

@@kuhluhOG You've missed the point: Rust macros have full access to the system - disk and network etc. SQLx can't be written in zig's comptime because it has no access to the system at compile time. You can write zig's comptime inside rust macros, but not the other way around. Proof: crates.io/crates/comptime BTW rust ALSO has what you want: doc.rust-lang.org/reference/const_eval.html

@@NoBoilerplate About Rust's sqlx crate: I think you mean the query! macro to not be possible because everything else is in fact possible with Zig's comptime. Also, full network and disk access at compile time is not necessarily wanted by everyone (for example the C++ committee voted against giving std::embed because they thought of it as too insecure; yes, really...). But I don't think you get why I dislike Macro's that much. It's not about the power of network access or the like, it's that you can embed or even invent your own language inside of it and that it has essentially it's own rules compared the rest of the language (to a point where one can consider it it's own PL). While this may not be too bad for a project (you can straight up outlaw these kinds of things), you can't do that on an ecosystem level. This leads to ecosystem divergence on not a choice, but understandability level. Also, const_eval is quite limited compared to Zig's comptime

@@kuhluhOG Rust isn't a theoretical language, it's been out for 16 years with macros. Your fears have not come true. Macros are FINE, honestly 🙂

People LOVE to forget the innovations of lisp! Do start with the book, it's really well written and approachable! doc.rust-lang.org/stable/book/

@@NoBoilerplate thanks. I never really looked much at Lisp. Too many parentheses to see the beauty beyond it. But made a few compilers and interpreters for fun so might take a jab at a Lisp one sometime too to get friendly with it. Rust documentation generally seems nice and good.

Thank you so much Bill, that's so kind of you to say. I hope to write many many more!

blazingly fast!

My pleasure! Thank you for saying so :-)

Be careful -- that's how you were tricked into getting "vaccines" of extremely dubious value. Macros may or may not be the right code injection for you!

oh amazing! I love it when the stars align for that! Hey, I have two other podcasts you might like, one that does exist and one that doesn't yet but you should keep an eye on: 1. Modem Prometheus, urban fantasy written by my friend Neil and performed by my friend Kate. I produce and write music (also I read the credits) If you love Buffy or anything Neil Gaiman has been involved in, you'll love this first episode: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/lbl0obiHraenZGg.html 2. /usr/stories podcast. Similar to Lost Terminal, hard scifi but set this time in the past. Season 1 in pre-production, probably will drop in a month or so twitter.com/usrstories Thank you!

@@NoBoilerplate Got it, thanks for the heads up! :)

It's SO powerful, right? I love it!

I am so sad that scala has deprecated xml literals - what a cool feature! Ah well, we have Rust now :-)

It's a complex topic! Check out my other rust videos 😁

omg like clojure's arrow macro? (->) I LOVE IT PLEASE TELL ME THE PACKAGE NAME (don't use urls, yt hates that)

@@NoBoilerplate I'll be honest, I never thought about publishing it (or anything, for that matter). I will try doing so over the weekend, and get back to you on that!

@@CaptainOfDoom Please post it here if/when you do publish! :)

Don't forget to share it

@@NoBoilerplate I do know the macro "pipeline" from my searches, you can do things like: let length = pipe!( "abcd" => [len] => (as u32) => times(2) => [to_string] ); // from their documentation I did not use it yet, but I saved as fav because it looks so cool

yaaaas did you publish?

I did, the crate is called langbox

wat?

@@Artentus Amazing! crates.io/crates/langbox

​@@NoBoilerplate thanks!

That's right! But don't forget (I beg you) that proc macros can access the disk and network. What might you do with that power?

@@NoBoilerplate In a proc macro, I did parse the library dependencies (reading "Cargo.toml") with the "cargo_toml" crate because my advent of code binary needs a solver library for each puzzle, list that evolves with time.

@@philippecholet9484 so meta, I love it!

thank you so much!

Thank you! I have noted that, and it looks like I will indeed do a part 2 in the future!

Fantastic! You're gonna have a great time, and thanks for your support friend :-)

Thank you so much for saying :-) I have a lot of practice speaking because I am currently on season 11 of my hopepunk/scifi podcast, Lost Terminal. I'd love for your feedback on it! Episode 1 is here kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ppmSd6hq0NnefZc.html

Thank you so much! I'm on a regular 2 week schedule now on fridays. (though Patrons get the video a day early!) Perhaps you'd like to hear me talk about science and tech through the lens of a fictional AI? That's what my podcast Lost Terminal is about! kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ppmSd6hq0NnefZc.html

Thank you so much! Primeagen is such a nice chap, welcome!

That's so kind of you to say Ken, thank you, I will! :-)

Can't do side-effects though, right? Can they access the network at compile time?

@@NoBoilerplate i've seen a demo that printed ASCII art at compile time at different scales based on a size parameter, so some side effects can be done

@@somenameidk5278 I'm delighted to inform you that this sounds like a bug in the compiler's handling of constexpr "neither std::cout

​@@NoBoilerplateamazing

Thank you! You're too kind!

That's so kind of you, thank you!

Thank you so much! Yes, The Book is wonderful, as is Rust By Example and Rustlings. I imagine Amos over at @fasterthanlime (fasterthanli.me) will one day write the definitive article on Macros and then we'll all be enlitened!

I daresay we will get const functions, just as we got macro_rules! compile-time matchers, anyone can write this feature for us today, within a macro!

Go is great! You're gonna have a great time with Rust, it punches through both go's ceiling and floor to be lower-level and higher level than it. To get the async ergonomics you're used to with go, learn tokio, it's the de-facto standard. Do watch my videos and read all of fasterthanli.me and The Rust Book! Have fun!

noted, thank you!

Thank you so much for saying, I really appreciate it. I am indeed targeting just those sort of users, and I aim to not just continue, but ramp up this year, with some tasteful adverts, I might even be able to go full-time youtube! Check out macro_rules! for a simple solution that does the parsing for you, lisp style!

My pleasure! Do check my other videos, they're in the same style, and I do interesting non-rust videos too!

All those extra bloated features in java, all they need was proper macros in 1996!

You're so kind! I wonder if you'd like a scifi story read by me, if that is the case? I'd love to know what you think of Lost Terminal kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ppmSd6hq0NnefZc.html

@@NoBoilerplate I watched the first three episodes. I'm very interested! I find it actually captivating to think about what an AI actually 'thinks' about. Though Seth is very personified for an AI, he is quite endearing. looks to me that I have something new to listen to on my drives to work! thanks for your great work and dedication to the story!

@@anamewithnoface1330 I'm so pleased! I too love listening to podcasts while on long journeys - perfection! You can listen to LT on spotify, itunes or wherever you listen to music and audio - more handy than youtube when in the car! If you'd like to chat about LT (or indeed NB), come and say hi on my Discord server!

Fantastic!

It's terrific! Do check my high-level intro to Rust: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pb9gi9p-tLneoWg.html Sorry to be picky (kind of my job!) but I think of Rust in the opposite terms: It's not easy, but it is simple.

@@NoBoilerplate If I was able to understand it, then it is easy bro.

I wrote just the video for you, Rust is easy! kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ebCkqdGW1bO6cYk.html

I suspect we're only just (re)learning, as an industry, how to use macros!

Oh don't even worry about macros, they ALWAYS look nasty in whatever language you write! There's an old lisp saying "never do in a macro what could be done in a function". True in Rust too! Rust syntax is only as complex as it has to be, I promise. There's loads of great features that simply require more syntax to work. You must make your programming language as simple as possible, but no simpler. I'd love to know what you think of my video here kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ebCkqdGW1bO6cYk.html

@@NoBoilerplate I'd seen the video before, just watched it again. I'll never say the compiler isn't really handy since that's what everyone talks about with Rust and I'm sure you can get 90% of the way there with just the compiler messages. My main reasons for not learning it are: 1. I just don't have a use for any compiled languages at the moment (I use Lua to make addons for various games and Python to get data off of websites) and when I write code I want it to run immediately without waiting for compile time 2. When I do need to use a compiled language, memory safety is usually not on my mind because I'm not doing anything important or to scale 3. (Especially for Rust and C++) when I look at other people's code and see a ton of mumbo jumbo(&forThe,compiler) => {} it's a real turn off, not that most languages don't have their moments of that but c++ was really nasty to look at and Rust is just c++ with added rules, syntax, etc cool logo and nice idea though

@@lionbryce10101 Absolutely fair, lua's really great (I recently converted my nvim config from vimscript to lua and I'm so much happier! If you want to play in the following domains, Rust might be worth the price of entry: - webasm - bare-metal without using C - high-performance computing My take is Rust is EXTREMELY different to what I was used to: No inheritance, new syntax for lifetime annotations and borrows, and the compiler hates a lot of the standard normal patterns we've been using for decades. I know how you feel there! Back in 2020 I crashed out of learning Rust twice. First time due to multiple string types (Haskell's biggest mistake made again, I thought to myself) and second due to the lifetime syntax. At the time I had a great mentor who picked me up and helped me back on the path. Most people don't have this. This is why I made my Rust series. Yes Rust is very different from what you're used to. But that's the point. Anyway, you sound like you're in a good place, no rush to learn new stuff. Python made my career for 15 years, no harm in that at all. BTW do check out bevyengine.org/examples/ if you're interested in game dev, impressive stuff there. Certainly, people on my discord rave about it! Cheers!

The great thing with HTML, as a universal interface language, there are MANY visual designers that you can build your UI in, then just template them into your server code with (say) rocket.rs.

@@NoBoilerplate Can you comment on " I suppose it is possible to write code that is to be executed as well at design time as in the compiled program, when executed"

@@michaelschnell5633 What does "design time" mean? I'm Familiar with compile time and run time?

​@@NoBoilerplate My dream always was a system that allows for a decent local GUI and and a bowser based GUI (i.e. local and remote GUI to choose from). With Rust this seems to be possible by Webasm and WebGL (e.g. vi egui) . But nowadays it might be appropriate to use html for this by implementing a browser in the desktop app. Now for design time a WISYWIG HTML editor might be implemented by a Rust Macro. I just don't yet see how to have the designer easily bind business logic functionality within the GUI design flow. But I am no expert on HTML stuff at all :) -Michael

@@michaelschnell5633 Ah! I see! I'd recommend trying out tauri.app and doing their tutorial, getting a simple app working, and taking it from there! Lots of videos on youtube can help you design html interfaces, it's really not too complicated, I promise 🙂

That's so kind of you to say, thank you! I'm afraid it'll be a while till I do a deep-dive on unsafe and low-level, because I don't work with that level typically. I've talked about it in half of this video, and I'm very happy with the high-level description: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/htt9i7qUld7We2Q.html If you would like to hear my voice in a format where I'm TRYING to be soothing, I'd love to know what you think of my AI/hopepunk scifi podcast, Lost Terminal kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ppmSd6hq0NnefZc.html

@@NoBoilerplate Hello, I've just listened to the lost terminal podcast and I could relate to the satellite because I'm lonely too. Again, could just listen the whole podcast just for your soothing voice, but as for the podcast content, I personally didn't find it really engaging and entertaining 😅 (super sorry, but please don't feel bad and think that you're making bad content, its just my personal opinion and there are many viewers apart from me who love the podcast).

@@formulaetor8686 Quite alright! I produce and write the music for Modem Prometheus, maybe you'd like it instead? It's very VERY different kzfaq.info/get/bejne/lbl0obiHraenZGg.html&embeds_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fmodemprometheus.com%2F&feature=emb_title

I have great news! I already wrote two videos on wasm! First video's here, the second part is 2 videos later kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hpp8gMmcq7K2o30.html

@@NoBoilerplate 🙌 Many thanks!

You're going to have an *incredible* time learning Rust! Do ask questions in #newbie-advice on my discord if you get stuck, and read The Book! doc.rust-lang.org/stable/book/

Wonderful! Yes they're tricky to understand at first. I only understood their importance due to my lisp background. Good luck!

It's fun to think what postgres/whatever features sqlx supports. All of them.

Wonderful! Do check out my other videos, there's so much good stuff here! kzfaq.info/get/bejne/n8yRf85m25m7aWQ.html

I'm so pleased! You'll have such a great time, make sure you watch the rest of my rust series, starting with this one on wasm: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hpp8gMmcq7K2o30.html

Oh yeah, I have so much respect for those who write macros. Even in lisp, macro's natural habitat, they're weird. Worth it though!

Thank you so much! This is a great idea, I will put in the markdown scripts links to the first usages of all abbreviations going forward! github.com/0atman/noboilerplate/

@@NoBoilerplate I can give that thank you right back! I really enjoy your videos and you being so open to feedback will improve on that even more.

@@thebaconbreadful this is the way!

Ha! Macros are so weird aren't they! Don't worry, you don't have to write a single one to write normal Rust. It's like writing C extensions for python/js/ruby etc, it's mostly wizards who do that for us! You sound like you need a relaxing video to watch after this one, I prescribe kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ebCkqdGW1bO6cYk.html (let me know what you think!)

oh that would be perfect for a macro! Make sure you're always using nightly, and try this to help understand what is happening github.com/dtolnay/cargo-expand If you need help, post in #programming on my discord, loads of smart people live there! :-)

@@NoBoilerplate Thank you!

Don't tie yourself to the mast - come in, the water's fine! Interestingly I actually have a video in draft making an analogy to an Odyssean pact and Rust's type system...!

@Peter I strongly disagree. Rust has a single compiler that defines what valid rust is and for most projects and companies (by far), that is enough. It still makes sense to work on a spec but that should not stop people from using Rust right now. And it doesn't. Don't take my word, just look at all these large companies and FOSS projects that are already investing heavily in Rust and using it for crucial parts of their infrastructure (Google for Android, Microsoft for some low level stuff in windows, Cloudflare, Amazon, you name it). Cloudflare is a good example, they replaced nginx (!!!) with an inhouse solution written in rust, serving billions of requests every day. Even Linus pushed towards adding Rust to the kernel.

@Peter I have good news for you! 1. The Rust team are considering a formal specification (which is what I think you want, not standardization). and 2. Many industries don't require standardisation - web development being a huge one! I'm excited for Rust to become even more useful, and would welcome a formal specification to allow use in organisations that have come to assume specification = correctness.

My pleasure!

Oh fascinating - this is something called macro hygiene, I think? Hygenic macros only act on the scope they've been provided, and are thus easier to reason about, unhygenic macros slurp up stuff outside there scope. I could be wrong there. I'm not as familiar with zig compile time functions as you are (though I've read much). Can't you generate new times and do compile time reflection on existing types with rust macros? My understanding is that zig compile time functions can only do a subset of what rust macros can do?

@@NoBoilerplate macro hygiene isn't a way of "seeing" the environment, but rather is a way of making sure that macros don't end up having unwanted interactions with the scope in which they are expanded, by actually going it it's own "separate environment" to some extent. Say you have a macro that expands to `{ let x = foo(); bar($expr); baz() }`, then that `x` will not be visible to the expanded `$expr`, meaning it won't shadow an `x` defined in the scope in which the macro is expanded. Regarding how powerful macros / Zig functions are, pretty sure it's the other way around, Zig functions can do everything macros can but not the other way around, except for custom syntax (since functions in Zig still operate on "values", be they compile time values (which include types) or not - and not token streams). In general, in Zig you can do things like given a type find out if it's a tagged union, enum, union, struct or primitive, and even see the fields it has and their types etc. Beyond that you can also concatenate variable length slices at compile time without having to worry about allocations or lengths without issue, read files at build time, etc etc - the print function in Zig also uses the same compile time machinery: ziglang.org/documentation/0.10.1/#Case-Study-print-in-Zig So you can do pretty much everything (and if you need a DSL you can parse it from a string at least, or put it in another file) at compile time in the actual context in which you know all the context of your types etc. (It should be noted that you can get some similar stuff in Rust at least as it pertains to types with a ton of derives, but it's much more work to implement.) Meanwhile in Rust, macros just turn token streams into other token streams - if you see the token `Option`, you only know it's an identifier, and not what that identifier refers to / what traits it may implement / etc Which I should note though, is a hard problem to solve - the abstractions Rust chooses make it pretty much impossible without having a lot of metadata about each macro, especially where traits are involved. I ultimately still prefer the safety and abstraction language via traits Rust provides over Zig for actual production level stuff, but I do very much enjoy the "reflective power" and compile time goodness Zig can provide that Rust is comparatively lacking.

@@codenamelambda Ah of course! Thank you for the explanation. I have enormous respect for Zig, though the minimalism of the language isn't quite for me (in the domains I work in).

It's *amazing*, so much of what I like in one languages. Do check out this short playlist of my best Rust videos for more info kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pb9gi9p-tLneoWg.html

i will surely thankyou dude@@NoBoilerplate

I've mentioned that in the past in more general Rust videos, it's a price I'm very happy to pay! :-D

My pleasure!

Cool right! If Rust didn't have macros (my favourite feature from lisp) - we wouldn't be speaking, I'd be using Haskell or Go - terrible! :-D

@@NoBoilerplate hahaha… I tried Go last year and really didn't like it a lot. Since I already know C++ and C#, I really needed something comparable. Rust makes a lot of sense to me.

@@AlexEscalante hehe, yes Ken Thompson and Co were rather blinkered when they made go, I think. They tried for "cpp but modern" and I believe they succeeded wildly. But I need more than that 😅

Don't wait my friend, Rust's already replaced C in the Linux kernel, in Discord, in CDNs around the world, and even some of NPM's backend services. It's achieved critical mass, and is ready! What are you waiting for, what's not good for you?

Hehe!

I bet there is (search crates.io) but let me defend curly brackets: I've written python professionally for 15 years. At the start, indentation scope is nice and easy. When you're at production-level, and you've got huge levels of indentation and debugging where the mistake is, you wish wish WISH you had curly braces XD This is how I think about Rust's more complex syntax: there's more detail, but it's there to help you. My video on this here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/aM6Igcdn3Z_Xiqc.html

Fantastic. I'm so pleased, this was just the sort of misunderstanding I was hoping to help with by making this video - Macros are great! XD

honestly same, that's why I'm here :-)

@@NoBoilerplate Thanks!

There's a small but growing market for Rust developers, all the big players are taking rust seriously, look at this list that contains Microsoft, Aws, github and others www.rust-lang.org/sponsors - find their job boards and apply to them all! Secondly, four of my videos were sponsored by companies actively recruiting for Rust devs, apply quick! Videos: - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gK-mfsqE3tzYqH0.html - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hpp8gMmcq7K2o30.html - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/r5dgna2JmJvXmHk.html - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qciGq9Ro07TYl6M.html Good luck! I'll try to add more sponsors who are recruiting for Rust, and maybe even do a "how to" video in the future!

Rust's pretty incredible! Do check out my other videos to get more excited about it :-)

Sure, just like when you run your project and it tries to connect to a database and it says "db not found", or if the db changes and suddenly your schema is out of data in your running app. With sqlx you get that feedback *immediately*, which I love. Early errors are much better than late errors! Honestly, that's the Rust thesis right there :-)

That's so kind of you to say! I wonder if you've watched my little hopepunk/scifi show, Lost Terminal? kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ppmSd6hq0NnefZc.html I'd love your thoughts on it!

All are welcome in the cargo cult!

AFAIK, That is exactly what the asm!() macro does doc.rust-lang.org/rust-by-example/unsafe/asm.html I hope there's one for CUDA!

That's Pavlovian conditioning: I release every other Friday :-)

Well spotted! You found the bug in my reveal.js plugin, it HATES those dollar signs, some kind of escaping bug? I had to hand-edit these macro slides to fix them. DISLIKE! My bug report is here FYI github.com/MSzturc/obsidian-advanced-slides/issues/193

SO good right!?

Exactly. Lisp is described as a "programmable programming language" and Rust is too!

Perfect english! Rust is not an OOP language, it is BETTER than that. As you learn more about languages, you may discover alternatives to OOP that are just as good - we often think of OOP as the *only* way to program, but it's simply *one way* to program. If I'm reading this right, the 4 principles are abstraction, inheritance, encapsulation, and polymorphism. Rust has all of those, but in very different ways than Java and C. polymorphism is the most different in Rust. Rest assured, Rust has comprehensive techniques for building as large projects as you want. I would recommend reading The Book: doc.rust-lang.org/book/ Good luck, and please ask me more questions on my Discord if you need help :-) (links in the description)

@@NoBoilerplate thanks, what I am interested in is that rust has all 4 principles of oop, and surprisingly it still has those principles, about how to approach and implement them, I will research

Let me try to sell you on syntax-changing macros: If you don't have them, you must wait for the language authors to release functionality you want. (think, async). Other languages have to do this, if you want new python functionality, you must wait for the python developers to do it for you. It's even worse in Python because the language is written in C, a different language to the one we're used to. Rust is written in Rust, so we *could* make our own changes, but we'd still have to persuade the community to merge them. With macros, YOU get to program the compiler per project. Take a look at this video of mine where I explain more kzfaq.info/get/bejne/htt9i7qUld7We2Q.html

​@@NoBoilerplate Yes, in LISPs, languages that only use monoids to deal with IO, and other ones that are intended to be detached from the machine or ISA they're executing on, it might well be impossible to add new functionality to the language without syntax changing macros, but with a language that goes down to the metal, any functionality can be added with compiletime execution of the normal language itself; you won't get the syntax you want with, say, that html macro, but I'd rather load an html file into a string or through a constructor at compiletime than switch the syntax of the language I'm writing in mid-file. Another point about using a macro system is that it can only happen at compiletime; that splits the language and makes you write them completely differently. Exempli gratia, a macro must contain another macro, not a procedure, to do everything at compiletime. Having arbitrary compiletime execution, instead, allows you to write a procedure once, let it be called at compiletime or runtime, and, importantly, have the compiler propagate whether the expression is being executed at compiletime to sub-expressions and procedures that are called by procedures in the expression; this allows you to just have one implementation of an algorithm instead of a macro and procedure for the same thing. Here's my language if you'd like to check it out: www.kennethpollick.com/software/y.html (a high level overview), kzfaq.info/sun/PLQm-teGlSiPQp9H5lIuQVqI_Glxx4YQdn (a playlist of streams I've done on twitch about Y (watch out; the audio's blown out on the first one)), github.com/KennethPollick/LibY (the standard library which needs an overhaul because of changes), discord.gg/AdjxzFjPNs (the Y discord).

My real passion is not getting paged by another syntax error in production at 4am

An: yeah that's right! A macro for every language would be incredible! Completely possible, for the right kind of person XD

Can you access the network in constexpr?

@@NoBoilerplate sadly no. networking hasn't even made it into the stl yet and the TS for it has been kinda dead since 2018... Constexpr and similar afaik aren't as powerful as rust macros but they have similar ideas behind them. Just wanted to mention constexpr because the video mentioned c macros. So I wanted to mention what C++ is doing to replace them with something safer and more modern.

@@sinom Ah! Got it, thank you very much for pointing that out, so it's an attempt to do c macros but better? That's super! No side-effects is a reasonable choice, macro_rules! can't do side-effects either.

Rust also has constexpr. They serve different purpose than macros. Constexpr is for compile-time evaluation. Macros are for pre-compile-time code generation. Just because you can use the latter to do the former does not mean it's a good idea to do so.

Yes, with full support of the rust ecosystem and ide support. It's not even that difficult, macro_lisp is only 300 lines crates.io/crates/macro_lisp

@@NoBoilerplate oho this is exiting! I'll definitely try and play with it, it'll definitely be easier to learn macros than build a compiler or interpreter, which was the thing that was holding me back from even entertaing the idea of designing a programming language!

@@etooamill9528 You'll learn different things making a language outside of rust, so by all means do it the old fashioned way for learning! But if you're doing it to solve problems... do it INSIDE rust! XD

@@NoBoilerplate you are right, even if it's scary I'll never learn if i don't get out of my comfort zone

...well... kinda but not really... A procedural macro is just a program that takes a token stream and spits out a token stream. If you want to write a new language in it, then you'll basically be writing a transpiler/compiler to transform your code into valid rust. What proc-macro gives you in this context is the ability to then use that language inline inside any rust program.

Ah lisp, my beloved! Yes of course, as I have said many times, Rust is like Haskell and Lisp snuck into the cool languages party in C's clothing!

Oh absolutely, I mentioned lisp specifically because of it. I actually wrote clojure professionally for 2 years a few years ago - that was fun! when I discovered Rust is an expression-based language that has lisp-style macros, but is REALLY popular, I switched HARD!

Same!

Perfect!

I know right! I started to take Rust seriously when I discovered it had a lisp-style macro system! Did you see my previous video on it? kzfaq.info/get/bejne/htt9i7qUld7We2Q.html

YOU MONSTER! /j