Sabre vs Katana - which is better?

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Academy of Historical Fencing

Academy of Historical Fencing

8 жыл бұрын

Another article comparing two swords from different cultures. I forgot to add the typical specifications of each sword in this article, so here they are -
Sabre - a typical British infantry sabre has a blade 32-33" long 1.8-2 lbs total weight (800-900grams).
Katana - Commonly had a blade length of approx 27-29", 1.5-2.4 lbs (700grams-1.1kg).

Пікірлер: 706
@casimiriii5941
@casimiriii5941 8 жыл бұрын
and that's without even taking into consideration the best saber of them all, the lightsaber.
@dihoxide
@dihoxide 8 жыл бұрын
Hahaha W!
@FBPG
@FBPG 5 жыл бұрын
i know its very old comment, but anyways. From the scientifict point of view your lightsaber would burn you alive at first try of using it. So its the worst.
@92000
@92000 4 жыл бұрын
Which is technically a... SWORD, not saber ;]
@LamgiMari
@LamgiMari 4 жыл бұрын
@@92000 Interestingly enough in the German dubs of Star Wars it's called a Lichtschwert - light sword.
@92000
@92000 4 жыл бұрын
@@LamgiMari Not only there. You should know that in the most dubbings it's called as a "light sword". It was one of a biggest mistake of LucasArts.
@shushuyu
@shushuyu 8 жыл бұрын
I'd go for the sabre. Being one handed gives you a huge advantage in terms mobility.
@SpacePants196
@SpacePants196 8 жыл бұрын
+Shuyu One handed may have a slight advantage with mobility, but two handed cuts/stabs will be both faster and stronger then anything one handed. But I am generalizing here, many different styles of fighting have different views on how to fight one handed or two handed, but I generally like to use a katana with a wakizashi as a backup if I need it.
@shushuyu
@shushuyu 8 жыл бұрын
+Wesley DeVries Think of it this way, a smallsword vs longsword...which of the two is easier to handle? Which is faster? A weapon that is lighter will have speed because it weighs less and when a weapon weighs less the individual will have an easier time to use the weapon properly. There's a reason why throughout history our armors and weapons become lighter and lighter. It's all about speed. It's not a slight advantage, it's a huge advantage when your preparatory movements are reduced. Do you know that there's a trend? All swords that are light are used with the one hand grip only and NEVER for the two handed. This is another obvious fact that using one handed grips is the faster of the two types of grip. btw I want to introduce "sieniawskifencing" to you. It's a channel that I guess emphasis on saber, russian saber? These folks are awesome. Try using some of their techniques with your katana. Compare your attacks with the katana using the two handed grip to a one handed grip from their videos. Which is faster?
@lich109
@lich109 8 жыл бұрын
It doesn't really take that much effort to kill somebody though (just look up how many people were killed by rapiers), a sharpened sabre will cut through an unarmoured/lightly armoured person just as well as a katana used with both hands, and there's several ways of using the blade (usually by adjusting your grip so that the blade appears to snap forward) that can give it a huge boost in speed. If you're up against a heavier armoured opponent, then the two-handed grip isn't going to help you anyway since regardless of how strong your swings are, you simply aren't going to get through that armour because A) All swords were really bad at cutting through armour with their blades, and B) The katana isn't known for its durability. Using it against heavier armour is more likely to destroy your sword than it is to hurt the opponent. Honestly I think the katana might be a good sword, if it had a one-handed grip. The blade's too short to really require a two-handed grip and using two hands on a blade that's not unwieldy enough (in one hand) to require them is just wasteful.
@lich109
@lich109 8 жыл бұрын
***** The problem is that you might not be able to effectively use that stab, there's a reason the murder blow was created, even though longswords and shortswords can pierce through weak spots with stabs just like a katana could, it wasn't nearly as effective as just bashing the pommel into the other persons head.
@mrgaudy1954
@mrgaudy1954 8 жыл бұрын
Tell that to Jaime Lannister.
@carlosdelacadiz6658
@carlosdelacadiz6658 8 жыл бұрын
In a one on one duel the sabre is superior and more versatile in combat, that's why most nations adopted the sabre.Both great weapons.
@Luciffrit
@Luciffrit 8 жыл бұрын
+Jebemite De La Pizzara Then from sabres many countries went for thrusting swords.
@theglasslionstreams5183
@theglasslionstreams5183 8 жыл бұрын
+Luciffrit Yes, to combat the evolution of armors. Sabers, as amazing as they are, are practically worthless against a guy in plate armor. While you can stab with it, it's far easier to get effective, deep stabs with a thrusting sword into the gaps of armor.
@Luciffrit
@Luciffrit 8 жыл бұрын
Glassman823 People weren't really wearing armour at the time though. WW1ish
@theglasslionstreams5183
@theglasslionstreams5183 8 жыл бұрын
Luciffrit In WW1 most countries were using a version of a saber.. If they were using that sort of melee weapon. I can't think of a single country that used a thrusting sword during that time. The only other sword I can think of that was used was a katana, but that was more of an "officer" thing, than it was a logical thing.
@Luciffrit
@Luciffrit 8 жыл бұрын
Glassman823 Many countries went over to the thrust centric swords. I just did a quick google search and bam, straight thrusting swords everywhere.
@willnonya9438
@willnonya9438 8 жыл бұрын
This last weekend I got invited to a fascinating sparing event at Schola St George where a small Koryu school showed up. It was a lot of fun and as far as Katana vs Longsword, the biggest difference I saw was in the cross guard. I fought one of their students with a side sword, and I'll say that your observations are absolutely correct. I couldn't bind with him, but could strike from a ton of angles. Great fights and it was very interesting to see the different styles working against each other. Especially considering this Koryu school does't spar as part of it's training, they all performed very well.
@ohshipman
@ohshipman 8 жыл бұрын
After six months of this commentary, may I ask if, by any means, the sparrings were recorded and posted on youtube? This mixed weapon sparrings are always nice.
@DudeNumberOnePlus
@DudeNumberOnePlus 8 жыл бұрын
Sabre. Its decisively nimbler.
@Gman-109
@Gman-109 8 жыл бұрын
If I was fighting for my life, I'd take a saber, every time. Reach, just as fast, can still deliver cuts, although not as well as a katana, yet is superior in thrust, by FAR.
@politiciancranberry
@politiciancranberry 8 жыл бұрын
im assuming your into straighter blade sabers then, one with a pronounced curve would be worse in the thrust because its so off point and actually better in the cut then a katana.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын
Actually a sabre with pronounced curve is exceptional at thrusting (and cutting of course). The sabre shown in this video is exactly the curvature we use in training and sparring. That curvature actually makes man thrust far harder to parry, you just have to thrust with the edge up or down, as opposed to flat. Typically with a straight blade you can thrust in inside or outside guard very easily, same goes for a curved sabre when you first engage, but as you go forward to place the hit, you twist the wrist and the point comes on line.
@ilya399
@ilya399 3 жыл бұрын
Question is, are you fightin against trained guy with katana? If do, you got slim chance with sabre.
@Gman-109
@Gman-109 3 жыл бұрын
@@ilya399 I can post video showing the exact opposite - there are many factors. Guy I trained with in Kendo and Kenjutsu for 12 years, who had 25 years experience, got absolutely mowed by a fencer we also trained with, using saber vs Katana (bokken and training saber).
@ilya399
@ilya399 3 жыл бұрын
@@Gman-109 Kendo and kenjutsu today are crap... Trained samurai in old days would defeat any guy with sablya, period. Learn about philosophy of using katana, and you will get why i say that. Or for example use master kuroda from japan, i bet on him he will cut any sablya user today.
@jordanaug81
@jordanaug81 8 жыл бұрын
As a layman, and admirer of the katana, it appears that the sabre makes the better fighting sword. The Katana has always caught my eye though, so beautiful.
@MisterKisk
@MisterKisk 8 жыл бұрын
It's an interesting comparison between the two, but one thing that I notice whenever anyone compares katana to any other sword, is they often compare them to swords used in war, when the most common sword used in war in Japan were tachi, as opposed to katana. There was some overlap that started in the 15-16th centuries, but most samurai would have taken a tachi as their sidearm to battle, whereas a katana was generally worn as a means of self defense when not at war. Tachi are generally longer (30 inch+ blades), have more acute tips for thrusting (and tachi manuals often emphasized thrusting), and are balanced to be used one handed predominantly. I think it would be more appropriate to compare a tachi with a sabre.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын
+Kisk79 I tend to stick to swords used in civilian life, as that is the focus of most HEMA manuals, which is why I compare them in a civilian unarmoured situation. The sabre here is an exception to the rule as it is a military sword. Of course, in the late period of the sabre (as far as its use in Britain anyway), the katana was more popular, and moves into the military pattern katanas as well.
@MartinGreywolf
@MartinGreywolf 8 жыл бұрын
+Kisk79 Nope. Tachi was a predecessor of katana, actually, and not used much even during sengoku jidai. What was used were katana and uchigatana worn tachi-style, not actual tachi (barring some exceptions, but then and again, jack Churchill used a claymore in WWII). By the time Edo period rolled around, katana was pretty much the sidearm of choice in Japan.
@MisterKisk
@MisterKisk 8 жыл бұрын
+MartinGreywolf That is not quite correct, at least for the first portion. Proper tachi (i.e. full length tachi made in that manner, rather than swords that have similar proportions to Uchigatana, but have its mei on the side that tachi do), were being made until the middle of the 16th century, and prior to that, they were still the most common sword worn on the battlefield. This is most assuredly the Sengoku Jidai, and considering the length of that specific period, tachi were around and common for pretty much the entirety of it (depending on which school of thought that determines the date in which the Sengoku Jidai ended). Tachi were still more common up to the 1590s. After this point in time, a lot of tachi blades that are mounted as an uchigatana, without cutting the blade down. They are still effectively tachi, but worn in a different way, though many were also cut down to be shorter too.
@RevRaptor898
@RevRaptor898 8 жыл бұрын
+Kisk79 The tachi as I understand it was favored by mounted samurai, hence the longer blade and single hand grip. so If we were were to compare this to a saber would it not make sense to compare it to a carvery saber which was longer and heaver than infantry models.
@acemic2050
@acemic2050 8 жыл бұрын
+Kisk79 Exactly you cannot compare shape and steel of XII century European sword with XV or XVI catana, Sabre is ok. the sharpness could be similar, common myths about Katana s sharpness against european swords or sabres are not true.
@KuKulzA28
@KuKulzA28 8 жыл бұрын
Sabers definitely fought katanas... but these are Mongol, Chinese, Vietnamese sabers... Japanese wokou and ronin penetrated far south of Japan.. but with such a wide variety of sabers from Europe to East Asia, from the edge of Siberia to the southern tip of India, hard to generalize with so many styles..
@benerdick_cumberbiatch
@benerdick_cumberbiatch 6 жыл бұрын
They probably did during the first Russian Japanese war.
@TheGeneralScorpion
@TheGeneralScorpion 5 жыл бұрын
​@@benerdick_cumberbiatch good guess, there was a duel before a battle in that war per japanese request, on the Russian side was a Serbian volounteer Lekso Saičić who won the duel( his saber is kept in a Russian museum. but the duel was on the horseback so it's different than it would've been on foot since katana is two-handed and on horse due to reigns it would have to be used in one hand thus limiting the techniques used and other...(my opinion) I do have the link to a full story tho I don't think the YT will allow links? www.telegraf.rs/english/1474153-the-world-trembled-from-his-sword-this-man-killed-japanese-samurai-in-an-epic-battle-video
@benerdick_cumberbiatch
@benerdick_cumberbiatch 5 жыл бұрын
@@TheGeneralScorpion kind a ridiculous title. Since there were no samurai at the time. But I'll check it out later
@TheGeneralScorpion
@TheGeneralScorpion 5 жыл бұрын
@@benerdick_cumberbiatch true, in the feudal meaning of a Samurai no, but the Japanese kept their samurai traditions which include even Harakiri, codes of bushido, sword schools etc.. almost the whole mentality until after the WW2, which if we analyze we can see that they still retained a lots of elements from the feudal times... yes the title is a bit ridiculous(but thats media...) still I think it's as good as it gets as far as the recorded events go. But basically that was the samurai only without armor which is I guess what we ultimately want a duel of weapons and not the armor(both parties were without the armor of their respective era),So yeah for me at least it's pretty close, as close as we can get xD
@emeralddragongaming2930
@emeralddragongaming2930 4 жыл бұрын
@@TheGeneralScorpion do we know what kind of a sword did the Japanese swordsman used, since he probably cut down some Russian officers already
@mrmoth26
@mrmoth26 5 жыл бұрын
Sabre, no doubt.
@LOLsebekoksLOL
@LOLsebekoksLOL 7 жыл бұрын
The best sabres were made in Poland for winged hussars. I would like to see comparing british one to this :D
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 7 жыл бұрын
There are a lot of great sabres in the world, of course the Polish hussar types are famous for being exceptional, but so is the Tulwar, the Shamshir, the dao, and the British light cavalry sabre, to name just a few. The British 1796 pattern ight cavalry sabre is essentially identical to many Polish hussar sabres (those without thumb rings anyway, which covered a relatively short period). The sabre in the video is based on those, just adapted to better suit combat on foot, being a whisker shorter and lighter. Maintaining most of the power, but being much faster and agile for such infantry based fighting.
@LOLsebekoksLOL
@LOLsebekoksLOL 7 жыл бұрын
Academy of Historical Fencing then you can compare (if you will have opportunity) basical polish sabre used by "szlachta" or hungarian one (original was made from strong steel staying light) :D I wish you will can :) Btw, funny fact - hussarian sabre was one of the most sucessive sword in battles. :)
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 7 жыл бұрын
I don't have any originals or reproductions to hand at the moment, and another problem with Polish sabre, is that we have no surviving treatise to explain how they were used, not until the early 18th century when Polish swordsmanship had changed drastically, and brought in line with typical European sabre styles. That is a tragic shame. And yes, the British sabre was heavily based on Hungarian swords and styles of the time, which is why they are so incredibly similar. Sabres of this type certainly are famous for their effectiveness.
@LOLsebekoksLOL
@LOLsebekoksLOL 7 жыл бұрын
Academy of Historical Fencing thats why I wished you luck in having opportunity to have one :D
@piotrmalewski8178
@piotrmalewski8178 6 жыл бұрын
I read an insteresting interview with a Polish armory master. He said it takes more time to make a proper Katana blade, than a proper Polish saber blade (while it takes more time to make Polish-style decorations on a blade), but he said that saber has one major advantage over Katana- hand protection. They made an experiment, set up a fight between masters of saber and katana. The man with saber won in seconds, because he simply make a cut through opponent's fingers.
@MrManifolder
@MrManifolder 8 жыл бұрын
Firstly, as always, I applaud your fair and informed appraisal and comparison of both swords. The Russo-Japanese War is one of the best sources for instances of sabre and katana being crossed in anger. There were many embedded foreign observers, probably most famously was Sir Ian Hamilton, representative of the British army, who spent time with a Japanese unit (Japan was an ally of GB at the time). Many foreign journalists were also present. The kyugunto used by many Japanese soldiers had a blade that was essentially katana-like in geometry (on the shorter end of the spectrum) and weight, including the two-handed grip, but the hand protection was a hybrid of Japanese and Western, consisting of a very small elliptical disk with a long knucklebow to protect the fingers of both hands. Japanese cavalry had swords were closer in design to European sabres, in that they were one-handed and offered a bit more hand protection. There are some reports of Japanese soldiers bringing ancestral swords to the battlefield as well. On the Russian side, most officers and cavalry were carrying European sabres typical of the era (I have not found many details in text, but there are many photographs), but there are accounts of that Cossacks used their traditional sword, which lacks hand protection. The newspapers and magazines of the era, reported several instances of officers challenging each other to sword duels at the start of battles to boost the morale of their men. Surprisingly, on these rare occasions, the soldiers were content to just wait there and let one officer kill the other before charging. I have found several English-language newspaper articles and magazines referring to such duels, typically fought on foot and with the Japanese officer winning (although not always unwounded), but these do not name the combatants and the level of swordsmanship of the Russian officers is unknown. There is an officer duel that took place on horseback, where the Russian soldier, a Montenegrin volunteer named Aleksandar Lekso Saičić, was the victor. The original newspaper sources were in Russian, and so the improved documentation in this instance might have been the use of this event to improve morale back in Russian. It should be reiterated that these duels were a rare occurrence and most swordsmanship happened during the charges, where the Japanese swords, when used properly, proved that they had as much use on the battlefield as the Western sabres.
@mysticonthehill
@mysticonthehill 8 жыл бұрын
+MrManifolder I knew there would be accounts and thanks for providing us with information. I suspected there may have been incidents were Japanese fought modernized soldiers of the imperial qing army during the boxer rebellion and the occupation of Korea equipped with European sabers.
@druisteen
@druisteen 8 жыл бұрын
bullshit
@alcuin18
@alcuin18 8 жыл бұрын
If I'm ever fortunate enough to live in Britain, I would love to train with you guys, and the other great HEMA enthusiasts on KZfaq, it's something I've loved most of my life (like Britain itself) and it'd be incredible to do it personally. :)
@Skjaldbraedur
@Skjaldbraedur 7 жыл бұрын
Will you ever do a video discussing other eastern swords such as dao or jian? Or is this (current) mostly based off of the prevalence of there being similar sword applications (I.e. HEMA and kendo)?
@JohnoPete
@JohnoPete 8 жыл бұрын
Another helpful video. Thank you. I'd love to see a longsword vs rapier review.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын
One against the other as in this video?
@JohnoPete
@JohnoPete 7 жыл бұрын
Yes, that would be very helpful.
@raymondkoren2113
@raymondkoren2113 8 жыл бұрын
Hello.I am planning on starting hema on my own for now, and I was wondering if you could give a suggestion as to what I should choose when it comes to what weapon i should choose to start with. Keeping in mind amount of source material, general prices, and ease of learning for a beginner. Thanks!
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын
+Raymond Koren In terms of weapon type/style, that is quite a personal thing. However, sabre is a simple and cheap system to get into. The style is easy to understand, the manuals are easily available, many of them free, and the language simple to understand. Plus the Knightshop synthetic or Black Fencer models give cheap starting options. The Knightshop basket hilt is an ideal start in fact, as it can be used without expensive gloves and hits quite light compared to everything else.
@eevee6930
@eevee6930 2 жыл бұрын
Where do I get one of those katanas with a sabre hilt?
@gabrielolmedo9000
@gabrielolmedo9000 8 жыл бұрын
how were the combats in the XIX century? did men charged like crazy and colide each other like madmen? Or did aproached carefully to engage with their swords/bayonetts?
@morningmidnight9398
@morningmidnight9398 5 жыл бұрын
My question is will you be doing clerks 3?
@Velocispic
@Velocispic 5 жыл бұрын
Fucking lol'd
@jakehavellana8094
@jakehavellana8094 7 жыл бұрын
Where could I get the gothic hilt saber?
@HaNsWiDjAjA
@HaNsWiDjAjA Жыл бұрын
I am a bit late to the discussion, but does your opinion on sabre vs katana also extends to cavalry sabres, which tend to be on the heavier side but also have longer blades? Does say an 1821 light cavalry sabre still have the advantage for combat on foot against a katana? Thanks
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing Жыл бұрын
Yes it does still apply. The differences between infantry and cavalry sabres are always that huge, and overall extra reach does give an advantage in a one on one fight where thr swords are already drawn.The only caveat I would give here is that officers swords are more often than not lighter and more agile than troopers examples. Some troopers swords could put the user at a little more risk against katana as they don't have quite the finesse.
@KuyVonBraun
@KuyVonBraun 8 жыл бұрын
I love all swords but tbh if my life was on the line I think I would choose a sabre. for me personally as a fencer it suits my fencing style.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын
+ShinyBrowncoat Indeed. The sabre is a universally excellent sword. No wonder it was adopted in most corners of the world over time.
@marcosdheleno
@marcosdheleno 8 жыл бұрын
+Academy of Historical Fencing but wich is superior, the more curved saber, or the more straight?
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын
+Marcos Danilo You will never find a definitive answer on that. Depends who you talk to, which period you look at, the doctrine and style of the time. I think the fact that both have existed simultaneously and neither has ever managed to completely replace the other would suggest that superiority cannot be found.
@marcosdheleno
@marcosdheleno 8 жыл бұрын
+Academy of Historical Fencing ah, i was kinda asking if maybe you could compare both in a video like you did here.(sorry if you already did, i just found you channel and became interested to know the good and bad of each design).
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын
+Marcos Danilo Ah ok. Yep I can do that.
@Zyme86
@Zyme86 8 жыл бұрын
They defiantly clashed during the Boshin War (japanese civil war late 1800s). Or at least were going on opposite sides. That was mostly a shooting war however.
@DMEII
@DMEII 7 жыл бұрын
I'd use my US 1860 Lt Cavalry Sabre or possibly my 1840 Heavy Cavalry Sabre. Not only do I love those swords, good hand protection, etc. I am used to them. But A big part of sword work in a fight, etc is one's experience with his sword and how comfortable he feels with it.
@mr.s5523
@mr.s5523 7 жыл бұрын
Great explanation
@nikemozack7269
@nikemozack7269 8 жыл бұрын
The fastest cuts are done from the wrist. The sholuder rotational cuts are the slowest.
@matthewvillanueva4420
@matthewvillanueva4420 6 жыл бұрын
The fastest kills are done from the unscrewing of a pommel to end your opponent rightly
@AVGyerra22
@AVGyerra22 6 жыл бұрын
^
@Adriano70911
@Adriano70911 8 жыл бұрын
great video dude! A comarision katana vs sabre is in my opinion the most interesting from all swords
@lunacorvus3585
@lunacorvus3585 6 жыл бұрын
If you compare katana with shorter saber like cutlass,cutlass is actually lighter?
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 6 жыл бұрын
Not necessarily. Many cutlass are as heavy as sabres, and sometimes even more so. Due to sometimes having heavier guards, and broader blades. Cutlass tend to be anything from 700 grams up to about 1.1kg. Which is a common range for infantry and cavalry sabres, and also katana. Huge variety exists.
@ImmaOrochimaru
@ImmaOrochimaru 7 жыл бұрын
Does anyone know the name of the Katana with the sabre hilt?
@misachan69420
@misachan69420 7 жыл бұрын
gunto
@Drew_Thompson
@Drew_Thompson 7 жыл бұрын
In WW2 imperial Japanese units fought American units using American made Dutch klewangs, which were curved heavy sabers with clip points, I've read that the Japanese adapted them on the small scale after finding a shipment of them and simply removed most of the guard so it simulated the disc guard of a katana.
@farkasmactavish
@farkasmactavish 7 жыл бұрын
One thing you forgot to mention is a scenario in which neither side has a sword drawn. A saber was typically worn spine-up, edge-down at the hip, while the katana was worn spine-down, edge-up. Where a saber wielder would have to draw the sword up and across their body, and then arch it around above their head for the initial strike, a katana wielder can simply grip around the latter end of the hilt, and whip it straight out across the belly. More often than not, this was the entirety of a duel between samurai, going down similar to one in the wild west where the winner was simply the quicker draw.
@Rainsoakedcoat
@Rainsoakedcoat 7 жыл бұрын
[Citation Needed]
@thomascollins5959
@thomascollins5959 7 жыл бұрын
Shall personal experience suffice for a citation? I am currently training in Toyama-ryu Iaido and yes the katana would be worn with the blade facing up on the hip, and draw-cutting is an important part, many kata begin with a draw-cut (some parallel to the ground, some in a diagonal cut upwards). Now I know nothing of what a samurai duel would have looked like, nor do I know anything about sabre usage, so I can't comment on either of those.
@farkasmactavish
@farkasmactavish 7 жыл бұрын
Thomas Collins The duel thing is mostly speculation on my part, I'll admit. But we do already have a parallel (which I already mentioned) that works that way, so. o3o
@Rainsoakedcoat
@Rainsoakedcoat 7 жыл бұрын
Thomas Collins , we already known how they're worn, it was more about the katana-fetishism mixed with wild west mysticism. Katanas are worn that way, not because of some mystical superiority in draw speed, but because it complimented how they were worn- not granting them super speed. You'll find that regardless of whether it's spine down or spine up, there isn't much different in how you can draw it. Sword fights also didn't involve both sides running up to eachother with swords sheathed to stand awkwardly and have a fast draw contest. It's a bit like concealed carry vs open carry proponents of today who argue about being in a random shootout at any moment.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 7 жыл бұрын
A sabre can cut on the draw, as is seen on the 21 foot rule draw video we did on the sabre. However, much more importantly, the sabre draws quickly and directly into a strong hanging guard, which is the perfect setup to parry riposte whatever is coming in, and that Is at the core of the sabre fighting style.
@robertpanek5944
@robertpanek5944 8 жыл бұрын
Polish szabla husarska FTW!
@michaellittle226
@michaellittle226 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks for sharing .
@vitormorais9893
@vitormorais9893 8 жыл бұрын
hi academy, i am a brasilian and I love your work, your videos very short, only half bad that I can not understand everything you say, but still short enough, congratulations to channel
@frostaegis8653
@frostaegis8653 8 жыл бұрын
damn! that gothic hilted sword is beautiful. know of any available reproductions? o.o
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын
+Joonas Ahonen It is beautiful, but it is not a gothic hilt, it likely inspired them though. The gothic hilts came in 1822, this sabre is an 1803 pattern, characterised by its slotted hilt and 1796 light cavalry inspired blade. There are reproductions by Military heritage and similar, but they aren't great. Unwieldy, the proportions aren't quite right and the brass work garish. I am having a simplified version for sparring made by Danelli Armouries, so we shall se how it comes out and will be shown in the channel soon enough.
@yukimdr2515
@yukimdr2515 8 жыл бұрын
i'm your 11 112 subscriber ^^
@DMEII
@DMEII 7 жыл бұрын
I have always liked the US 1860 Lt Cav sabre. Just curved enough to be a good cutter, but also just straight enough to be good for thrusting. I also really like my Windless Scimitar. Very light, quick and fast.
@is_a_boss990
@is_a_boss990 3 жыл бұрын
Is a saber good against armor? actual question here
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 3 жыл бұрын
Generally speaking no, as sabres emphasize cutting over thrusting and cutting with swords against armour is useless. However, thoughout most of the time sabres were used, at least in Northern Europe, armour was either not worn, or partial armours were used, in which case they worked perfectly well.
@theweresheepdog6446
@theweresheepdog6446 8 жыл бұрын
Please, which saber he says that one is? "British infantry officer's saber 1803 pattern"? Couldn't hear too well... Now I need one of those; as soon as I saw it got shivers and goosebumps all over my neck and arms! :D
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын
+O Lobisomem The one that is the thumbnail for the video. Deeply curved blade with blue and gilt. Brass slotted hilt.
@theweresheepdog6446
@theweresheepdog6446 8 жыл бұрын
+Academy of Historical Fencing But was it "1803" what you said? Really didn't hear it... Also, would that be a modern replica or is it an antiquity?
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын
+O Lobisomem Ah right, sorry. Now I get you! Yes it is the 1803 pattern Infantry Officers Sword.
@theweresheepdog6446
@theweresheepdog6446 8 жыл бұрын
+Academy of Historical Fencing Thank you, good sir! :)
@Jdawgggable
@Jdawgggable 8 жыл бұрын
While I value your opinion as an expert, I found it interesting how you continue to compare the katana to many different iterations of the sabre. My understanding is that there are many different iterations of the katana.
@neurofiedyamato8763
@neurofiedyamato8763 2 жыл бұрын
Most Katana were produced to a similar standard where as sabers were not. Katana usually only had relatively minor differences in design.
@Themayseffect
@Themayseffect 8 жыл бұрын
Is there such a design of a Katana/Sabre sword? Mix of Hilt design, mix of blade profile?
@TitusGargilius
@TitusGargilius 8 жыл бұрын
+Themayseffect did you watch the video? there was literally one showcased.
@Themayseffect
@Themayseffect 8 жыл бұрын
Michael Burke I did..what are you talking about? timestamp?
@TitusGargilius
@TitusGargilius 8 жыл бұрын
+Themayseffect 1:16 he shows one to the camera with a saber guard and a katana blade.
@Themayseffect
@Themayseffect 8 жыл бұрын
+Michael Burke that is not what i'm talking about. That is simply a Japanese version of a Sabre.
@SANDWICHshuriken
@SANDWICHshuriken 8 жыл бұрын
Kyo gunto swords are almost literally a katana blade with a saber hilt.
@MrManifolder
@MrManifolder 8 жыл бұрын
Shortly after the Russo-Japanese war, many Japanese acts of valor were compiled in English in the three volume book titled "The Russo-Japanese War, Fully Illustrated." Although, these anecdotes are geared toward actual warfare (not duels), the use of the sword can be found in many accounts, where it is used against sabres, bayonets, lances, and guns. One of the most fascinating cases described in that book is that of 22 year old Lieutenant Yoshii (sometimes spelled Yoshi), described by Sir Ian Hamilton as "a singularly weak-looking youth," which was a remark made to indicate his surprise that Yoshii's chipped sword (probably a kyugunto) had supposedly already cut down 8 Russians at the time of their first meeting. Hamilton, an embedded British Army observer, was also present when Yoshii's most celebrated acts occurred. An excerpt of Yoshii's story from the book is as follows: "On the 4th, he [Yoshii] and his men were suddenly attacked by a couple of battalions of Russians, and though there were but 30 of them in all immediately opened fire, hoping that the resistance they could offer would give the Grand Piquet time to come up and drive back the advance of the Russians. It was a dark night, and the little band was soon surrounded by Russians, so that the fighting had to be done at close quarters, with white arms. After a hopeless but desperate resistance had been offered for some time, a resistance which cost the Russians very dearly, Lieut. Yoshii ordered his men to retreat as best they could, and make their way to the Grand Piquet. Only four men were left to obey his orders, and while the little band was making its way toward an eminence which seemed to afford them a chance of shelter and escape, the Russians came one again, and the Lieutenant alone succeeded in reaching the hill. Here he contemplated suicide, but reflecting that if he did so there would be none to make a report to the battalion, determined to take his chance, and fight on till succour [sic] came. Fortunately for him, the sounds of fighting had been heard, a half company came hurrying up to the rescue, and though that was not enough the turn the fortunes of the day, other reinforcements were on their way, and the Russians were eventually beaten back. Strange to say, Yoshii was absolutely unwounded, though his uniform was torn and his cap pierced through by a bayonet thrust. His sword was hacked and broken in several places and was dripping with blood. After the fight was over it was found that there were almost no bullet wounds on the bodies of the dead and wounded. Almost all had fallen from sword-cuts or bayonet thrusts, so fierce and close had been the encounter." Hence, although it is not explicitly mentioned, it is very possible, considering the number of opponents he faced, that Lieutenant Yoshii crossed swords with a sabre-wielding Russian officer in his protracted melee, in addition to the many bayonets he must have encountered. Both the sabre and the katana proved effective in the Russo-Japanese war, in both single combat and open battle, which is surprising considering the reach, hand protection, and potential speed advantage of the sabre.
@23561avatar
@23561avatar 8 жыл бұрын
+MrManifolder I think skill of the swordsman and fatigue play a bigger role in the outcome of the battle than the type of sword. I don't know how well late 19th/ early 20th century Russians were trained in sabre fencing, but I can imagine that the Japanese cherished their samurai heritage and spent quite some time honing their fencing skills as a result.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын
+SirPilkington Skill and fatigue will always plan a part, that much is not in doubt, but the discussion of one weapon compared to another is about how much that type of sword will effect the fight. For example of an extreme case, two handed spear vs a sword. A much more modest fighter with spear can beat a far more skilled swordsman. So the question is, how will it effect two fighters of equal skill? Or, how much can it make up for a disparity in skill?
@23561avatar
@23561avatar 8 жыл бұрын
Academy of Historical Fencing I completely agree, and the point of your comparisons is not lost on me. I enjoy watching them. My comment was specifically aimed at MrManifolder, who mentioned the Russo-Japanese war. I speculated that in this specific conflict, the results of swordfights may have been more due to the skill of the users (considering the Japanese were obsessed with their samurai heritage) than the types of sword being used. I wasn't making a sweeping statement that one weapon never has advantage over another, and that it all boils down to skill.
@hotsteamypudding
@hotsteamypudding 8 жыл бұрын
Well the scenario you picked was one that the sabre was designed for so that isnt really an unbiased opinion - how about a list of different likely scenarios that were likely in the setting of either (and I mean 'either' not both) sword and then for each one of those scenarios you say which is better? Also - you mentioned the extra grip length of a katana getting in the way when used one handed = how? I ask because my wrist doesnt bend far enough for the grip to ever contact my forearm.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын
+hotsteamypudding The sabre wasn't designed for that scenario. In fact the sabre was designed as a weapon of war back in the 9th century, and was used as such for hundreds of years. We look at the British sabre of around 1800 because that is the subject area we are interested in. To understand the ungainliness of a long grip in use in one hand, you simply need to have a sabre to compare. It throws off the rotational elements and doesn't pivot as well, and in some actions should hit the forearm yes, but that is less of a concern.
@hotsteamypudding
@hotsteamypudding 8 жыл бұрын
Academy of Historical Fencing I see - its because of the curved grip?
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын
+hotsteamypudding That helps, but it is more to do with mass distribution, and how it effects rotational elements, as well as dexterity. If you take a one handed sword, and a small two handed sword, such as a katana or bastard sword, that weigh the same, you will find that the one handed sword is far much more agile for one handed work.
@hotsteamypudding
@hotsteamypudding 7 жыл бұрын
Are you talking about the point of balance of the sword or is what you're talking about more complicated than that?
@TheShrouded
@TheShrouded 2 жыл бұрын
When you're talking about the Katana's leverage, it's not just to have more effective "reach forward and cut", it allows minimum movement to generate power. Most importantly it allows a quicker change of direction. It doesn't need to rotate to strike or to get back to guard. A quick, experienced and skilled user can take advantage while the saber is in rotation
@Semiotichazey
@Semiotichazey 7 жыл бұрын
One thing you didn't mention which I have heard from other sources is that the center of balance on the katana is proportionally further away from the grip, as compared to the sabre. Also, something I've noticed about one-handed weapons is that they seem to provide a greater effective reach, since you can hold the weapon further away from your body. That's not from any experience, but something I picked up from watching longsword vs. rapier videos, so maybe you know better.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 7 жыл бұрын
The balance difference is not true. The katana has an average point of balance of 4-6", that is identical to the average for sabres. Mass distribution can make swords of similar balance feel different though. As for reach, it is true that the effective range of a one handed sword is typically a little more than a two handed sword of the same blade length, and that is because with a one handed sword we typically go lead shoulder on and withdraw the rear, but with a two handed grip that rear/arm shoulder has to come forward for the grip and restricts the body from getting it's maximum reach. That being said, the actually difference when they have the same length blade is very modest.
@Semiotichazey
@Semiotichazey 7 жыл бұрын
Thanks for your experience. I think I was confusing longsword and sabre on the question of balance.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 7 жыл бұрын
No problem, but longswords average around the same 4-6".
@pj_mckenna
@pj_mckenna 8 жыл бұрын
Where did you source what looks like a Japanese cavalry sabre?
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын
+PJ McKenna From a militaria dealer. You can regularly find them at antiques dealers and auctions. Type 32 Gunto. They were made in two lengths, my version is the Otsu, shorter one primary for ground troops. The longer Kō is for cavalry.
@pj_mckenna
@pj_mckenna 8 жыл бұрын
Thanks very much!
@pj_mckenna
@pj_mckenna 8 жыл бұрын
What do you think of it as a sabre?
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын
+PJ McKenna It is rather forward heavy compared to most sabres, even heavier bladed British cavalry sabres. I can't remember what it weighs, but it has that sort of dead weight feel in the tip that you get with some of the monstrous cavalry sabres like the 1796 British heavy, even though it is much smaller, and not quite as extreme. The grip is quite nice and the leather finger loop is excellent, as found on many European sabres. The bowl guard is strong, if a little narrow. The locking mechanism that secures it into the scabbard is an excellent feature. Overall a bit unwieldy for it's size. This is simply due to the fact that they have effectively just taken a katana blade and thrown it on a sabre hilt. It needs more taper towards the tip to make It a little more agile imo. For cavalry use it would be good though, where more substantial and hefty blades are well suited.
@pj_mckenna
@pj_mckenna 8 жыл бұрын
+Academy of Historical Fencing Interesting. I guess either tradition or manufacturing issues meant that more infantry-oriented qualities weren't applied to the blade. Or maybe they wanted it that way. Thanks for the info.
@JerryDurante
@JerryDurante 8 жыл бұрын
i have a question for you. a friend of mine thinks that using two handed swords such as katanas or longswords are always superior to single handed swords bar none. while i agree there are advantages and disadvantages to each. any idea why single handed swords became popular at the end of the middle ages and continued up until swords left use as weapons? you seem to be very level headed and well informed. thanks.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын
+Jerry D That couldn't be further from the truth. Regular practice in this will clearly highlight why. You can track the popularity of two handed sword use in Europe almost exactly to the emergence and fall in popularity of plate armour. Two handed weapons became increasingly popular as armour levels increased and the need for a shield decreased, same goes for the transition from spear and shield to polearms such as bills, poleaxes etc. As swords became increasingly used for civilian wear in the renaissance, the swords were inevitably designed for that purpose, hence the development of rapiers. At the same time armour was decreasing and once more the one handed swords becomes more useful. It is also easier to carry as a sidearm. So you can see a direct link to the weapons and armour in war.
@JerryDurante
@JerryDurante 8 жыл бұрын
+Academy of Historical Fencing that was my arugement as well. twohanded longswords only lasted as long as late plate armour. once they where no longer used we went back to one handers. that and most o the word for most of history used one handers. i'be been doing living history on and off for over 20 years and don't think long swords are any more uncomfortable to wear, in fact they are easier to wear i a crowd then basket or swept hilt swords. so i don't think that is it. i was just wondering if there was something i was missing. my friend claims that longswords and katanas are faster then one handers and give you more leverage. i agree about the leverage. when i change the faster thing he uses one had like a fulcrum and does the equivalent of rabbit punching. again i was wondering if there was something i was missing. thanks for taking the time to answer.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын
+Jerry D Longswords and katana's are not faster than one handed swords. The leverage makes them faster at certain actions such as quick snaps of the hilt used to beat or in actions like the krumphau. But the one handed swords lack of body mechanic restriction makes it far faster in other ways, such as the rise into prime (right ox), and cutting around. One is definitely not faster than the other. As for wearing them. Depends on the size of course, but we have found longswords to be particularly annoying to wear. Maybe that is why there is so much reference to them being carried in hand rather than worn. Rapiers too are a nuisance, but basket hilts are easy to wear. The shorter blade allows them to be carried much more vertically and the hilt then clings to the body, unlike a rapier carrier where the hilt hands out in front.
@PazuChill
@PazuChill 8 жыл бұрын
There's a certain charm about your no-nonsense, to the point style of presentation.
@77jarim
@77jarim 8 жыл бұрын
I can't remember where I read this but apparently during the boshin wars the conscripts using a sabre were often overwhelmed in close combat by their opponents who were using a katana. This can of course be partially explained by the fact that the conscripts would not have had the same amount of training and experience as the samurai who had often been training from the time they were little lads. I guess it really comes down to the individual level of skill unless we are talking about some silly scenarios like a sword vs. a spoon.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын
+77jarim Individual skill will always be the overriding factor. When comparing weapons, we look to see what influence one can have in a fight. Some weapons can give a noticeable advantage over others, meaning that where fighters are equal, one will have a major advantage, and where one is far less skilled, he can match a better fighter. Mike and I have frequently beaten sword users in sparring using nothing more than a dagger, but that doesn't make them an even match, just that we were far more skilled than our opponents.
@vosslergardia3179
@vosslergardia3179 7 жыл бұрын
I vaguely remember reading something about a Russian and Japanese officer dueling one another in front of their respective troops, think it was around the time of the Russo-Japanese war. From what I remember reading the Russian officer was dispatched fairly quickly but I don't know remember what weapon the Japanese officer was using - given it was during a period of time where Japan was adopting Western style dress and weaponry.
@przemysawdawidziuk8585
@przemysawdawidziuk8585 7 жыл бұрын
Very nice material, but one small suggestion if You talk about Sabre, in My opinion the peak period of development was Polish hussar saber (XVII century). In both aspects quality and fighting technique.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 7 жыл бұрын
Polish sabres are excellent and of course very famous, but the British sabres of the late 18th century were based on sabres from Hungary/Austria/Poland anyway, and are in essence much the same. No thumb rings, but plenty of Polish sabres didn't have them too.
@edi9892
@edi9892 5 жыл бұрын
A big advantage of any one-handed sword is that you can reach out further than, if you hold it in two hands. Having a two-handed grip allows you on the other hand to win from overpowering binds and doing drawcuts, where you are so close that only with two hands you can generate enough pressure. AFAIK, Japanese never capitalised on the prior as they avoided getting into binds like many Asian martial arts do. The only exception is probably parrying against spears or muskets, where you're in a really bad position with an 800g sabre...
@McCbobbish
@McCbobbish 7 жыл бұрын
I think that the saber is a much more attractive weapon aesthetically speaking.
@thevikingcookie
@thevikingcookie 7 жыл бұрын
Polish saber is better
@Tycini1
@Tycini1 6 жыл бұрын
It is true
@MysteryHistery
@MysteryHistery 6 жыл бұрын
indian tulwar is the best
@jakublipiec3726
@jakublipiec3726 6 жыл бұрын
Swój chłop
@ejdermengov
@ejdermengov 6 жыл бұрын
There is not such a thing like Polish Sabre, it's Ottoman Turkish Karabela(black bane) which polish people started use after Battle of Vienna. If you visit Australia was museum you will see Ottoman Karabelas. Ottomans start to use it at 13-14th century and Polish use it at 16..
@zepter00
@zepter00 6 жыл бұрын
Faruk Gun bullshit and for you it’s Polish not polish
@based_prophet
@based_prophet 7 жыл бұрын
ive never heard of a 7 person saber please tell me more lol
@RoadrunnerMoose
@RoadrunnerMoose 7 жыл бұрын
I love both swords equally.
@bakters
@bakters 8 жыл бұрын
You forgot to mention one (I believe) important aspect in favor of the saber. It's double edged, and it can deliver very effective cuts with the back edge too. There is this surprising hook-like cut to the wrist, or this pretty much wrapshot from SCA. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Z79yn8mmuNu6dY0.html Finally, I just want to mention that nobody ever adopted katana as their main sword for any army apart from Japan. Yet they did adopt sabers... ;-)
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын
+bakters That is true for some sabres, but not all. Most British sabres weren't sharpened on the backedge, or anymore than is necessary for a good thrusting tip anyway, and the back edge techniques you see in that Polish clip were not taught in British military sabre. So it is relevant to some sabres and not others. It is a good point though.
@bakters
@bakters 8 жыл бұрын
Academy of Historical Fencing Oh, I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for clarifying. Anyways, wouldn't it be possible to compare Western sabers with East European sabers and maybe oriental designs? I would surely like to see some more on this. Advantages, disadvantages, prevailing techniques, footwork and so on? I'd surely like to watch something like that.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын
+bakters Yep, and that is something I would like to do. I would like to do a little more research first though. I teach British military sabre, and I am familiar with the Polish style of fencing, as well as Iranian and Indian arts using sabres. I have original shamshirs and tulwars I can use for these comparisons. I am however not familiar enough with Chinese sabres/styles to bring these into the equation yet, and that is an important aspect. I will make an overall sabre video soon. It needs to be done, as the sabre is likely the most widespread and used sword in history.
@bakters
@bakters 8 жыл бұрын
Academy of Historical Fencing I would say you know plenty enough to at least start a series... ;-) BTW - once I have your attention, I think it would be nice to show people that for the same blade length, single handed sword has reach advantage. Comparing the cutting power of different grips in different situations would be absolutely awesome, and I don't think I ever seen something like that, but I don't dare asking for it.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын
+bakters Sure, I will add those topics to the list of things to do. About different grips though. Do you mean, the shape of the grip, the length of the grip, or the method of gripping the sword? Or all of those issues?
@damian4926
@damian4926 6 жыл бұрын
I used to think that katana was a superior melee weapon until I've read about saber. Saber is lighter, more flexible, has double edge and is designed to attack from any angle without making it difficult to the fighter; fighting style of saber is much more flexible and quicker. Katana fighters usually after bringing out one or two hits go back to their original position, with saber fighters just continue to attack, no matter what position you are at, you always have multiple choices of attack. Katana fighters are much less mobile than saber fighters. What can I say; in my eyes saber just owes katana.
@radoslavkosil7450
@radoslavkosil7450 3 жыл бұрын
4:53 The saber handle would have no effect on the protection. The katana cut is not focused on the fingers or the palm. It is focused on cutting off the hand behind the wrist where the handle will not help.
@radoslavkosil7450
@radoslavkosil7450 3 жыл бұрын
@P Ciprian And do you think is easy for a katana wielder to do this? I did not say that it is easy or offered only that if it was hit by the Japanese fencing technique of his arm, it would not be in the fingers or hand and therefore this protection would not help him. Reach only depends on every swords lenght. Saber might can be used with shield (since we talking about sword vs sword its kinda useless argument) but duble handed sword will always have more power = harder to parry, worse injurys or instant death And also one + is that katana can kill with drawing a sword that would make adwantage in sudden fight
@LatrinaDeshawntey
@LatrinaDeshawntey 3 жыл бұрын
what’s the point of a short 2 handed sword
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 3 жыл бұрын
Leverage. Katanas generally speaking were not as super light and fast as people think of them, and they can often be quite front (or tip) heavy, meaning they have great cutting power, but are not as agile as many similarly sized single handed swords. The second hand provides the leverage to ensure they are fast in agile.
@sebastianb9460
@sebastianb9460 Жыл бұрын
The saber has changed over the course of history - at one point a round thumb strap was added called a toe - it worked like a lever and added strength to the cuts, allowed for various special techniques and protected your thumb - your sabers does't have it. I'm sorry that movie is in polish language but it explain how it works... kzfaq.info/get/bejne/otmWZNGjsZuxZoU.html&ab_channel=szablot%C5%82ukpolski
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing Жыл бұрын
In English we'd commonly call that a thumb ring. They were not just found on sabres, but also used on dussacks, Schiavonas, Walloon swords and many others. But they were relatively short lived, appearing in the late 16th century, by the early 18th century they were rapidly dissapearing. It is hard to say for certain why as there is little documentation, but evidently the users and makers of the swords did not find them neccessary, or perhaps counter productive. Personally I think it was a combination of an increased risk of breaking ones thumb and even arm in cavalry combat especially, as well as the increasing focus on point work, of which the thumb rings can be a hindrance. They were a fashion trend for a while, but clearly whatever advantages they gave were either not considered worth it, or the compromises were too severe, as they vanished. They can be interesting to train with though, and we do own a number of antique and training swords with these rings, though I have never found them to be particularly neccessary and they can be restrictive in terms of vsriety of technique.
@jorgemartbeck7617
@jorgemartbeck7617 6 жыл бұрын
Completely agree with you :)
@tantan19910603
@tantan19910603 8 жыл бұрын
I don't think that it is fair to compare a katana with a saber, katana is more likely a self defense tools in peaceful time(e.g. EDO period) for the samurai. Tachi or Nodachi are swords that samurai brought for war. Can you please considering making a video comparing Tachi or Nodachi with European swords?
@JZBai
@JZBai 8 жыл бұрын
+Eric Tang Not really. Katana were carried into battle by ashigaru (e.g. the guy on the right with katana and shield in this picture: imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img901/1610/NuLVVS.jpg ) while the samurai tended to wear tachi/nodachi into battle. Reason why is that the katana is a better infantry sidearm due to it's length and style of wear that made it easier to get out in a hurry vs. the tachi which is longer and better suited for cavalry (which most samurai were). In the Edo period, samurai eventually adopted the katana since it was better suited to civilian carry than the tachi.
@armoredp
@armoredp 8 жыл бұрын
+Eric Tang In terms of functionality there is very little difference between the tachi and the katana. They differ by having a different mount and a different manner in which they are traditionally worn. Like with most Japanese distinctions, the differences were mostly ceremonial and irrelevant in terms of functionality. There is more difference between the two random sabers presented in this video than there is between a tachi and katana. The outcome of using one over the other would be unnoticeable or at best a personal preference.
@notfeedynotlazy
@notfeedynotlazy 5 жыл бұрын
@@armoredp Even if incredibly slowpoke here, 99% in agreement. The 1% in disagreement is that the minor differences (in handle shape and way the saber was carried) weren't just ceremonial, they were also to allow for a much faster drawing from the belt (the katana) vs a much safer-for-the-horse drawing (the tachi). Once the weapon is drawn, they were basically the same.
@petros33333
@petros33333 7 жыл бұрын
good clip thank you but one thing i cant agree with you , polish sabres where made similar way as katana if comes to steel mix of two types of steel soft and hard sometimes as damascus sometimes as laminat with soft core and hard steel on the outside
@szybkilewyprostyf231
@szybkilewyprostyf231 7 жыл бұрын
Very good film. In this scenario the winer is the swordsman who has more skill :)
@marcinurban298
@marcinurban298 8 жыл бұрын
Get yourself a better mic man. Otherwise - superb. Subscribed.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын
+Marcin Urban It's on route right now. Hopefully we'll see a nice upgrade on the audio front in a few days time.
@ravendon
@ravendon 3 жыл бұрын
Katana can be used one handed. It can also be dual wielded with a wakizashi or a tanto. Musashi's school or ryu, specializes in dual wielding. Also Japanese Katana style swords are as varied as saber designs. A naginata is a katana pollearm. There is the o-dachi or no-dachi which is much longer than the sabers. A katana is an Asian saber by definition. According to Britannica, a "Sabre, also spelled saber, heavy military sword with a long cutting edge and, often, a curved blade. Most commonly a cavalry weapon, the sabre was derived from a Hungarian cavalry sword introduced from the Orient in the 18th century; also a light fencing weapon developed in Italy in the 19th century for duelling." And the saber originated in Asia, not Hungary. Maybe, one iteration, widely copied, is from Hungary.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 3 жыл бұрын
Of course the katana can be used one handed, and in that regard it would be considered a small longsword or bastard sword in Europe, and sometimes described as a two handed sabre or two handed cutlass, to expressely describe how it is not actually a sabre. The same naming structure is applied to the Swiss sabre for example, it being a two handed sword with a curved blade. A sabre by definition is single handed sword, not just one small enough to be used in one hand, but with a one handed grip. Britannica is also woefully inaccuratre when it comes to technical terms, as dictionaries generally are.
@Tyler_Lalonde-
@Tyler_Lalonde- 8 жыл бұрын
I disagree the rotational cut gives it massive speed. your just attacking from a shorter distance thus you have less distance to tavel. also I would like to know the difference in power from a wrist cut compared to a elbow cut or shoulder. I assume the others will have to travel a longer distance will take longer but still be at the same speed.
@niktav1769
@niktav1769 8 жыл бұрын
+Tyler Lalonde though with the katana you are facing your opponent with more of your front facing forward than someone wielding a sabre, not to mention that (from what I've read and watched so don't quote me on this) in Japanese swordsmanship with the katana, thrusts with the blade aren't really taught officially, it's mainly large swooping cuts made by katana wielders in the traditional sense, therefore a katana has now a new weakness, lack of thrusting defence, due to the training, not the sword or sword design itself. not to mention that the katana in the traditional sense was awfully balanced to the point where the point of balance was somewhere near the middle of the blade, this did make for better cutting ability to complement the shape of the blade, but when up against someone wielding a one handed sword or sabre, the point of balance is usually closer to the hilt, as to make wielding the blade much easier on the attack and defence
@Tyler_Lalonde-
@Tyler_Lalonde- 8 жыл бұрын
Niktav I'm just taking about military sabre against its self or another one handed sabre
@niktav1769
@niktav1769 8 жыл бұрын
oops, my bad
@Tyler_Lalonde-
@Tyler_Lalonde- 8 жыл бұрын
Niktav it's fine.
@TheArtofFencing
@TheArtofFencing 8 жыл бұрын
+Tyler Lalonde You can do the rotational cuts just from your wrist with a fully extended arm, so you don't have a reach disadvantage. Also even if you use your shoulder and elbow your cut would be made when your arm is extended. But it mostly does take longer for a initial attack. If you parry in non static and more fluid manner you can build your rotation into your parry and riposte with a powerfull blow. Power: wrist < elbow < shoulder but for a initial attack the wristcut will be the fastest and the more you use elbow and shoulder the slower you are and the more you do open up for a tempo action.
@ciszegebe
@ciszegebe 5 жыл бұрын
Asking if saber is Polish or Turkish or whatever is like asking the same about rifle or canone. It was used everywhere in Eurasia for a long period. The word "saber" is from Hungarian "szablya" means "cutter". The word was spread by hussars from the 17th c. Hussars used a light cavalry warfare originated in the nomadic past of Hungarians and was developed to fight against the Ottomans, became popular during the Napoleon wars.
@silentfox139
@silentfox139 6 жыл бұрын
Sabre vs katakana like happen before and during the Meiji period of japan but I would like to see more movies of different swords fighting. We barely got anything from the last samurai.
@Polishpower1978
@Polishpower1978 7 жыл бұрын
Hi. I've got polish sabre model 1924. Best technic is polish crossing technic.
@kb9oak749
@kb9oak749 7 жыл бұрын
depends on materials, skill levels, etc.
@thebritishww2man
@thebritishww2man 7 жыл бұрын
Great video! There could be examples of Katanas going up against Sabres in the Satsuma rebellion in 1877 with for example with the Battle of Shiroyama where when the Samurai ran out of ammo used traditional Samurai weapons (including Katanas) to fight with Imperial Japanese soldiers who could have been issued Sabres as I've seen pictures of the rebel Samurai with Katanas and Imperial Japanese Army officers with sabres. There's also the Russo-Japanese War in 1904-5 where there would have been Japanese officers armed with Katanas against Russian Cavalry, Cossacks and Officers with Sabres.
@SwitchFeathers
@SwitchFeathers 8 жыл бұрын
One of my favourite swords from history is actually that weird bastard child of the sabre and katana - The shin-gunto of WWII infamy. I know that most katana fanatics tend to dislike them and dismiss them as "not real katanas" but personally, I love them. They're a great representation of the state of Japan during the second world war, the traditional shape of an older katana, displaying the Japanese pride in their heritage and culture. But the rough-hewn, mass-produced (and towards the end of the war, desperate) materials and construction more typical of a post-mechanised warfare era. It's largely the underdog of the sword world, but that just endears them to me.
@junichiroyamashita
@junichiroyamashita 7 жыл бұрын
i prefer the kyu gunto for the hybrid katana-saber style
@marakarthegreat
@marakarthegreat 6 жыл бұрын
I would use a shamshir because I could be able to wield two at the same time
@shannonmanning6166
@shannonmanning6166 8 жыл бұрын
The katana was the best that could be done with the raw materials and knowledge base available. It's a beautiful sword, and the traditional katana were created in a time-intensive laborious process. They have very nice cutting edges and handle exceptionally well. They are, however, largely iron, and, if bent, usually keep the bend, while European swords, made from steel throughout, usually spring back to shape. Hollywood and legends have taken the katana into fantasy land, which, I think, takes away from the incredible and rich history of the sword.
@Khrene
@Khrene 8 жыл бұрын
Its cool to see someone remember the fact materials and technology are massive limiting factors on weaponry. Even those these blades were contemporaries, the sabre is more advanced than the katana. It would be interesting to see some build a steel katana, or someone compare iron swords.
@TheZeroSbr
@TheZeroSbr 7 жыл бұрын
Uh, katana *were* made of steel...
@misachan69420
@misachan69420 7 жыл бұрын
Thank you. Someone said it.
@TheZeroSbr
@TheZeroSbr 7 жыл бұрын
Marissa Chow People seem to mistake the low-quality steel Japan used for iron, I guess. The entire reason katana are so heavy and tended to use folded steel was because the smiths removed impurities through folding, and they still had to make the blade thicker than European blades because of how bad the steel is.
@mercenary-433
@mercenary-433 7 жыл бұрын
you have forgotten to mention the types of katana, a 1 handed katana is liable to bend because they wanted it to bend rather than break in battle. a 2 handed Daikatana is not so easily bendable, but were very hard to make as they used alot more Tamahagane (Iron sand). the wakizashi is the hardest to bend but the shortest and were only produced as a self defensive weapon for travalers, but soon became the traditional Sword of ako, the chamberlain chose it. a few years after all retainers wore one inside and out of Ako.
@daxasd3270
@daxasd3270 Жыл бұрын
from personal experience: -> I could use saber better due to reach advantage for all sort of strikes and cuts -> If you use the katana offensively it has advantages due to the stability of two-hands and a bit more weight. All in all, I had more consistency with the sabre, while individual cuts were less damaging (all sorts of hand exposure). The katana hurt my opponents more if I managed to overcome the distance - but that happened less consistent and I took damage to thrusts or cuts more often.
@gerbilsmith
@gerbilsmith 8 жыл бұрын
there were also those odd katana w saber guards, kinda a two handed saber... here's a link to a replica www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=USS118&name=Russo-Japanese+Kyu+Gunto+Army+Sword+
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын
+ED-D Smith Yep that's true, and they are quite interesting too, another hybrid of the two.
@gerbilsmith
@gerbilsmith 8 жыл бұрын
they remind me of some of the two handed Swiss Sabers that were contempory to the German two handed messers
@dlatrexswords
@dlatrexswords 8 жыл бұрын
Hi Nick, I thought I'd pass this anecdote along as you mentioned the overlap between japanese swords in the western style (kyu gunto) overlapping in use with the more traditional nihonto style blades. This excerpt was stolen from the following thread (www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/13731-kyu-gunto-in-combat/) and discusses why there was a push to return to the more classic 'katana' design. Note: I do not suggest this directly contributes to the discussion above, merely an interesting factoid about japanese sword use in the early 20th century. "JSS/US Vol.26 number 6. An article by Phillip M Goody, "Kai Gunto, Its Introduction and Rationale" "With the outbreak of the Sino - Japanese war in 1937, however, Officers (sic) of the Special Naval Landing Forces suggested that the sword be changed to a Japanese style swords so that it could be used effectively as a weapon. This suggestion had in fact already been made at the time of the North China incident, but met with a cool response as the landing forces at that time were not engaged in a large amount of hand-to-hand fighting and the change was not deemed necessary. The complaint about the existing Kyu-gunto style was that the hilt was swollen in the middle and the binding on the handle wound downwards, like a vine, from top to bottom. Apparently this made the sword have a tendency to tilt to either the right or the left when cutting down with either one, or two hands and also gave it a tendency to tilt when swung above the head. It was difficult to grip the hilt with both hands because of the western style hand guard. In other words when it came to using the sword in actual fighting, the western style sabre was clumsy." And a little later n the article, "At the time of this change," (from Kyu to Kaigunto), "the Navy submitted a paper to the Japanese cabinet concerning the motivation for changing to a Japanese style tachi. An excerpt is as follows, " Existing official long sword is not appropriate for practical usage..." "
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын
+Andy J Yes they certainly were an interesting sword design. It seems pretty clear the reason for reviving classic katana style was due to the Japanese philosophy of the time, leading up to WWII, where they tried to milk the samurai culture amongst the military and civilian population to create a new wave of nationalism. I have been on the lookout for a two handed kyo gunto for a while as they are very interesting, and would go nicely with my type 32 seen in the video.
@ilya399
@ilya399 3 жыл бұрын
It depends on person using it, and quality of a weapon.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 3 жыл бұрын
That is a given, to compare two weapons against one another you have to assume an equal skill on each side. Simply put, some weapons do have an advantage against others, however small or large. This can give a fighter of equal skill an advantage, or allow a lesser fighter to equal a better one.
@iuri7792
@iuri7792 6 жыл бұрын
I wanted to point out something, but please correct me if I'm wrong as I'm no expert, as far as I know the katana is the only sword which has the capability of unsheathing and cutting in a single movement, the iai, not even the tachi is capable of this. With any other sword you have to do three things(theoretically): Unsheathe, put in position for cut(as you can't cut from any position, it is not physically possible)), and then cut, whereas with the katana you only have to do one movement: unsheathe and cut at the same time. Personally the katana has always been my favourite sword(and weapon in general) and as a sword I think it is perfect, maybe not the best but deffinitely has a perfect design, and the fact that it enables the wielder to do something such as iai must be taken into account.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 6 жыл бұрын
The katana is not the only one. It has simply become famous for it because of the attention placed on it in the later period of katana usage. In fact many swords can cut when drawing from the scabbard, depending on the length of the blade and height of the user in relation to it. For most people that is around 36" blade length. That covers most types of sword, even the smaller longswords. Here is an example of drawing and cutting from the scabbard in a German 15th century treatise. The previous plate shows how the sword begins sheathed. 1.bp.blogspot.com/-lH3m2YsIMTc/VuEWNYoR0YI/AAAAAAAAIPw/OuH0CnhjqzY/s1600/talhoffer_sword_vs_mace_2.jpg In fact a number of European manuals discuss the draw, and some of them discuss striking from it. Viggiani in 1551 talks extensively about cutting from the scabbard. It is a universal cutting action that is designed as both a strike and a parry/beat. That is using sideswords. A lot of other manuals go straight to a hanging type guard that is used as a defence and a method of which to launch an attack. After all the important thing when drawing is that you survive. If the cut is delivered from that draw, or following the parry you made with that draw, the end result of the fight is the same. Drawing in to a thrust is significant too. As lots of treatise show a draw in to this hanging guard that provides cover and is point on line. So you are effectively thrusting from the draw, and this is something we experimented with when doing the 21 foot rule drawing tests, (we have videos for this with rapier, longsword and sabre). Another significant aspect is those swords carried rather than worn. The longsword was commonly carried in the hands, down by the side, or resting on the shoulder. Lots of techniques were taught for using the weapon from there. Including some rapid activations of the weapon like in Fiore, where a cut is launch from the shoulder where the sword is held in the scabbard, so that the scabbard is launched at the opponent as a means of distraction, followed by a cut of the sword. Also grappling techniques with the sheathed sword when being carried.
@iuri7792
@iuri7792 6 жыл бұрын
Those are interesting, however I wonder how much of real techniques with solid efficiency are they when compared to the ability of the katana when performing unsheathing cuts, or are they just a way of improvising strikes from the scabbard with what those swords allow to do? The katana is hung in a position that is tailored to that, also its geometry is taken into account(that's why tachi are not suited from what I've heard), not to talk about all of the disciplines developed solely for iai techniques. I wonder if unsheathing cuts with other swords would be more clumsy and slow and not have as effective a range of attack and power, just not as deadly in general. One thing I know though is that battoujutsu exists since at least the half of the 16th century and I'm pretty sure it has been more than proven, I don't see that with any other blade. In any case thank you for taking the time to answer with your expertise, I'm still sceptic, but I'll look into that info more later as I'm pretty interested in anything iai related.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 6 жыл бұрын
Most of the time I'd say they are more designed as an improvised defence more than a strong attack. The European styles so often preferring to ensure the user is defended first, and to strike second. As for how effective different swords would be compared to the katana. Well it hugely depends on their shape, size, how they're carried etc. I've done some test cutting from the scabbard with a range of one handed swords. Many cutlass and sabre draw and cut as effectively as the katana. Hardly surprising as they are usually around the same blade length. And the way they were carried makes for a very easy and natural draw in to a cut. I'll try and get some videos done on this later in the year. I've got a range of sharps that could be used in these tests.
@iuri7792
@iuri7792 6 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the reply, I wonder how much the specific geometry of the katana(which allows edge up drawing and cutting) would affect what you can do when doing unsheath and cut techniques at a very high level? Both in the amount of techniques that are able to be done and the power of each. What I mean by very high level is someone with, say, 10-15 years of training doing such strikes, comparing both katana experts and experts of any of those other swords in those conditions. I think only with such a test would it be reasonable to make any argument regarding their capabilities, because I think it's sensible to guess that the true potential of a sword for this kind of specialized technique wouldn't be able to be achieved in short a time. Still, I think something can be gotten from tests even if done by someone who doesn't master all of these swords and it would be something interesting to witness. Also I will use this opportunity(since I almost never post in HEMA related videos) to express my lack of appreciation towards the HEMA community in general when it comes to valuating the katana, even reaching the insult level sometimes. As a past Bujinkan and Kendo practitioner, and katana enthusiast in general, I find that this community oftentimes tends to underrate the katana sword highly and what the sword could and can achieve. It was developed within a land highly immersed in wars and in the martial arts and sword culture, also I've heard of accounts of other people copying the katana design and of the katana fairing very well in wars against other nations, though I have no actual proof. I also remember many years ago reading accounts of clashes between katana users and european sabre(and possibly other swords) users back in the time when those swords were actually still tools of war, and the katana faired pretty well if I'm not mistaken. I would like very much to read those accounts again. In any case even modern demonstrations(of which there are videos available online) of those that are highly skilled in this weapon can attest how fast and deadly it can be, such as those of Risuke Otake sensei. So again, I still think that there is-yes-something special about the katana, but obviously something not mystical but the result of the culmination of what that warring culture was able to accomplish, and that lies in the design of the katana sword and what it is able to achieve. I could say the same about other swords, for exampe I think there is something special about the design of the rapier too. This all comes from the mind of a layman, but someone who has a personal insight of swords-whether they are right or wrong. Do I think it is the best sword? No, but I think it is the best on what it does and it is not a subpar sword like many people like to say it is nowadays. For me it is a top tier sword among others such as the rapier and the best long sword-type sword(whatever that is).
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 6 жыл бұрын
It's going to be hard to compare. I don't believe Europeans did spend any great time on the practice of cutting from the draw, like the Japanese eventually did. As I said the European approach is almost always to get to guard and a safe position immediately, whether that it getting to the opening parry or just a strong position to hold an opponent at a distance. As for the HEMA community and its opinion of the katana. No doubt there are some bad feelings towards the katana by some HEMA people, but I wouldn't say it is a majority, or unique to the culture or surprising in any way. European swords have been belittled by some in the Japanese swords arts in exactly the same way for a long time. (In fact usually by Western Japanophiles). There are a lot of reasons for this on both sides, and I would like to see an end to it. We even have to deal with the same belittling of weapons and styles within HEMA for example. A lot of people don't have respect for those swords they don't practice or have an interest in. The backlash against the katana is simply a result of the pedestal it was put on through the 20th century. While many people, in popular culture and even experts, belittled many European swords, they treated the katana like the god of all sorts. And made it something mystical and above all else. There are image problems and hate towards a lot of different swords, and it is almost always unfounded. It is something we have to battle all the time. My opinion on the katana is in short, it is an excellent and successful design that stands among quite a number of other excellent and successful sword designs. And to try and argue which is better is nonsense. Because context is everything. Which is why the consideration of how a fight between two different weapon types would go, like in this video, is interesting. Whilst trying to argue which sword is simply the better sword is nonsense.
@londiniumarmoury7037
@londiniumarmoury7037 5 жыл бұрын
I just formulated a rating and grading system for swords when used in 1v1 duels, let me go and run the sabre and katana through it and see which is better. I'll edit this comment and update the result. Search 'SRS sword rating system' if you want to use it. Edit : Scores. Sabre 11 Katana 8 These are the results scored by the SRS criteria, I used an 1845 pattern infantry officers sabre to represent sabres. And a katana that is average weight and length if you took a medium of size variants of models. These results would be different if you used a curved cavalry sabre instead of a straighter officers sabre. Specifically in the thrust results and P.O.B liveliness. 1: Katana / sabre 2: Sabre (if weapons are used traditionally) 3: Sabre 4: katana 5: sabre 6: katana/ sabre 7: katana / sabre 8: sabre 9: katana 10: sabre 11: sabre / katana 12: sabre 13: katana 14: sabre / katana 1. Contemporary opinions of warriors who wielded the sword, and enemies who faced off against it. 2. Reach. 3. Hand protection, defensive benefits of the weapon. 4. Hardness of the blade edge. 5. Toughness of the blade edge 6. Hilt and tang construction, stability and integrety of the overall design. 7. Grip ergonomics, and range of mobility the handle allows in technique execution. 8. Effectiveness in the thrust. 9. Effectiveness in the cut. 10. Ability to perform false edge cuts, or being true double edged. 11. Livelyness of the blade in hand, P.O.B, weight. 12. Ease of access, speed it takes to draw and cut. 13. Power and authority in opposition when engaged, effectiveness of the bind. 14. Overall geometry, free from design defects (eg piped back sabre)
@tawmifm
@tawmifm 8 жыл бұрын
This is like comparing a long sword to a wakizashi
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын
No, it really isn't.
@jaded_dreiko4225
@jaded_dreiko4225 8 жыл бұрын
+Academy of Historical Fencing what do you mean when you say that katanas were banned? I didn't know that was a thing.. and why the hell did that happen?
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын
Industrialisation. An attempt to remove the powers and control of the feudal Samurai. Westernisation, and a move towards an unarmed (at least on the street) society, as almost every nation did in the 19th century. There is some info about it here - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hait%C5%8Drei_Edict
@hmuphilly9129
@hmuphilly9129 3 жыл бұрын
both are exquisite weapons there is no best they were made to fight wars
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 3 жыл бұрын
No doubt both excellent weapons. The object in this video isn't to decide which is a better weapon, but how they would compare in a fight against one another.
@Arc91
@Arc91 8 жыл бұрын
What I am kind of missing - in the Katana vs Saber showcase vid, too - was the Katana's advantage in short range - if you manage to get close, you can still do halfway decent cuts with a two-handed curved sword, while a one-handed sword (with a long blade) can't really apply sufficient force. I believe I saw you rushing your opponent after deflecting the first blow twice, and both times you got a nice cut without him having much chance of defending. As far as I can tell, the sabre is superior when one manages to keep distance, but if the katana manages to get close it's a done deal. Then again, I have barely any real experience in a duel with european weapons, so perhaps this is just an uninformed opinion.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын
The leverage provided for draw cutting is good with a two handed sword, but the sabre is also excellent at close range. In fact many descriptions of the Polish using their sabres, which are near identical to typical Napoleonic British ones, is them fighting at very close range and drawing cuts through right up against the body.
@Arc91
@Arc91 8 жыл бұрын
hm.... I honestly can't see how this could work well, given the sabre's centre of gravity, but I guess I'll take your word for it until I can assure the contrary.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын
Put it another way. The balance on katana and sabre is on average the same, typically 4-6", or 10-15cm. There are a great many techniques that the katana employs at close range with only one hand on the grip.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын
Then watch this video and see how some cuts can delivered with heavily curved blades right up close. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qJ6Bp8JqtNbLias.html
@JZBai
@JZBai 8 жыл бұрын
I find it a bit odd you think the saber grip allows you to move it in ways the katana can't since from my perspective it seems more like the katana grip allows you to use the katana in ways the saber can't. The short grip of a saber in an enclosed hilt seems to restrict the way you can grip the sword and by extension restricts how you can use it. The long unenclosed grip of a katana doesn't seem restrictive at all and allows you to grip it in a variety of ways both one-handed and two-handed across the entire length of the grip. Can you elaborate on why you think that?
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын
+JZBai You need to handle a few sabres to see how they feel. Most sabres have no restriction in movement at all. The hilts on most sabres are not what we would call enclosed, like the one shown, its offers no resistance or restriction. The sabre can be held with either a hammer grip or thumbs up grip, and the tapered pommel, often with a canted or pistol like grip shape to many means that the wrist can lie below the pommel, where a longer grip will not allow you, effectively acting like a bump stop.
@notfeedynotlazy
@notfeedynotlazy 5 жыл бұрын
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing I know this comment is 3 years old, but I feel I need to mention that there are a few katana styles, which use both two- and one-handed movements, where the hilt *is* grasped by the rear hand by the actual tip, grasping it "like if you were holding an egg" (as was actually taught to me, I feel like also sharing my master's humorous description), allowing for the same range of movements when using it one-handed as a short-handled saber. Which means that BOTH katana and saber can be handled very functionally, with neither the saber (as JZBai thought) nor the katana (as you thought) having restrictions to movement, as they both seem to have at first sight. Source: I've handled both, myself (practisioner of both kenjutsu and HEMA)
@based_prophet
@based_prophet 7 жыл бұрын
katanna was a one handed sword with one in each hand... miyomoto Musashi had no issue with this
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 7 жыл бұрын
It can be used in one hand, just like a bastard sword can, but that doesn't mean it isn't a compromise, which it is.
@DMEII
@DMEII 7 жыл бұрын
I still perfer the US 1860 Light Cavalry sabre. It is just curved enough for a good cut, and just staight enough for a good thrust. I like the hand guard. It protects the hand but it and the pommel can also be used as a weapon in itself when and if up close.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 7 жыл бұрын
They are quite a nice sword. Mike (the other instructor at the AHF) has an original that I will show on videos at some point, but I far prefer the British equivalents. The 1821 light cavalry, 1853 troopers and 1864 troopers. The 1821 and 1853 have similar guards to the US sword, but in steel rather than brass, and the 1864 has a great bowl guard, compact but really tough. All of these British models also have spear points that are much better for thrust work. They are also a little lighter and more agile.
@ninoschier9528
@ninoschier9528 7 жыл бұрын
Isnt this the saber called "The Old Wristbreaker"?
@Master...deBater
@Master...deBater 5 жыл бұрын
The 1860 was just an inferior copy of the French 1822 light cav sabre!!!
@Master...deBater
@Master...deBater 5 жыл бұрын
@@ninoschier9528: No...that's the 1840 heavy cav sabre.
@OrkarIsberEstar
@OrkarIsberEstar 8 жыл бұрын
id say the Katana is the better cutter in the end because it is used 2 handed, has a longer lever (handle) and thus can create much more force. Theoretically in a combat situation you wont be able to do full force swings but id say in tests the Katana is better since it creates more force than the sabre.However the sabre is thinner and thus doesnt need to push aside as much material when cutting deep into the target which may equal it out on really really deep cuts
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын
+Orkar Isber (Estar) The two handed grip of the katana does not allow it to create more force, only more leverage in a shorter distance. That means it can create a useful cut in a shorter range of motion, allowing quick and strong slices. But it does not cut with more force as such, and in many occasions the sabre will be able to cut more powerfully, this is because there are a great many occasions where the sabre can generate full power through rotations (moulinets), where the same action is slower with a two handed grip, and effects body mechanics too. A sabre is not thinner than a katana. This will vary according to the individual sword of course, but the sabre I am showing here is very broad, just as much so as a typical katana. Many sabres a thicker again.
@OrkarIsberEstar
@OrkarIsberEstar 8 жыл бұрын
Academy of Historical Fencing i was pretty sure the leverage also effects the maximal possible created force as you can pull with one hand and push with the other and put more of your bodyweight into the slash. Anyway with "thick" i meant that a Katana usually hs a very thin hard edge but a very thick broad back a triangular shape meaning the blade gets thicker as further it gets away from the edge. i may be wrong here but the sabers i know usually dont become much thicker away from the edge than they are near the edge. ofc there surely are sabers that get think on the non sharp side and i am no sabre expert but those i know are rather thin (and falchions ofc) and have pretty much the same thickness all over the blade while the Katanas i have seen are much narrower towards the edge than they are on the flat side (sorry for language issues i am german and dont know the correct terminology in english ^^
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 8 жыл бұрын
+Orkar Isber (Estar) Katanas and sabres can of course vary a great degree, as we are talking about weapons that existed over a long time period, and in the sabres case, across a vast numbers of cultures and locations. Many sabres are quite thick in the tip, and although many do indeed have a clipped back edge, where they taper to an edge at the back, cuts with the true edge should be made a little further down the blade, same with the katana, same with a longsword. And at this area, most have a thick backedge section just like a katana. Also, many sabres also thicken at the centre of the blade, rather than the back. Like a double edged sword would, and there are some which mix the two methods, such as the pipeback. Where the back of the blade is a thick section like a katana would be, but as it nearers the tip, that thickened section tapers into the point to allow thin edges both side, but remains as broad at the centre of the blade.
@18IMAMGODINA
@18IMAMGODINA 7 жыл бұрын
Those two weapons are kind of uncomparable since Katana is a two handed weapon while sabres are usually one handed weapons , some sabres are thicker and do need two hands and more brute force but I am not sure if they are called sabres in english ( not my native language)
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 7 жыл бұрын
You can compare anything you like. In our comparison videos we compare one weapon facing another, they don't have to be remotely similar. Just as we do rapier vs longsword, sword vs spear. This is a look at how they would do against one another.
@18IMAMGODINA
@18IMAMGODINA 7 жыл бұрын
Academy of Historical Fencing Oh if you are doing it that way , that is fine :D But when you compare such weapons one is used in one way and the other in a totally different manner , only thing in common they have is the curve . Anyways I like your videos , fair opinion :)
@fallenstudent1103
@fallenstudent1103 8 жыл бұрын
Nagamaki will always be my favorite Japanese sword.
@DeafSportsMedia
@DeafSportsMedia 7 жыл бұрын
Saw this story on Quora, thought you might be interested as the Klewang is a sabre. 'During the second world war there has been a direct duel between a trained Japanese Samurai and a trained European swordsman. This took place in a Japanese POW camp between a Dutch KNIL officer armed with a Klewang and a highly trained Japanese Samurai officer armed with a katana. The Japanese forced the Dutch officer into a duel to prove the superiority of Samurai swordsmanship. The result was shocking for the Japanese, as the Samurai did not stand a chance against the KNIL officer. The Katana and the way it was used proved to be way too slow for the quick and nimble flip-of-a-wrist one tempo tactics used in Klewang fighting that had evolved from fencing techniques. The Dutch officer was an official Klewang instructor. The Klewang has been called the ultimate soldiers sword and best allround classic sword model ever designed and was heavily used by almost all KNIL soldiers, the Dutch colonial troops in Indonesia. Their standard armament used to be a Klewang and a carbine. The carbine was also used as a kind of shield against sword blows when using the Klewang in close combat. It was designed for close-combat. Both duelists survived the duel. If you are interested in the history of the Klewang (and can read dutch…) there is a great boek on the subject by Piet Puype, titled ‘Klewang’ ISBN 9789051668360'
@StudyofSwords
@StudyofSwords 6 жыл бұрын
England Deaf Rugby There were no Samurai in the second world war, they stopped existing in 1873...
@grinningchicken
@grinningchicken 8 жыл бұрын
Watching your guys fight. the Sabre appears to have a reach advantage greater than the blade length would imply because it one handed. and it was a greater ability like you said to come at various angles and attack the unprotected hands. the Katana seems to have a power advantage because of being two handed it can go right through weak parries and get really solid hits. but like you said the Sabre seem as bit better general 7xout of 10 with evenly match opponents no or light armor saber would win.
@junichiroyamashita
@junichiroyamashita 5 жыл бұрын
What about a sabre with a backsword guard
@egoalter1276
@egoalter1276 7 жыл бұрын
Sabers existed as early as the 10th century, If I'm not mistaken. They were introduced to europe by Aisan tribes like the Huns and Mongols.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 7 жыл бұрын
Around the 9th century, and largely thought to have come from the Magyars. They certainly seemed to have originated in the middle east or far east somewhere, but it is very hard to exactly trace how they spread or if some were developed in isolation of one another.
@egoalter1276
@egoalter1276 7 жыл бұрын
Academy of Historical Fencing I heard that too, but being Hungarian, I thought it was just patriotic propaganda. Now I feel vierdly proud... Sabers are great.
@kiba3x
@kiba3x 8 жыл бұрын
The katana is a hand and a half sword like the longsword, it is not a sabre.
@Luciffrit
@Luciffrit 8 жыл бұрын
+kiba BG It's actually shorter than most hand and a half swords, but weighs and handles very similarly.
@kiba3x
@kiba3x 8 жыл бұрын
Luciffrit Yeah katana is shorter but with very little, basically only by the piercing top of the longsword. Everything else is like in the longsword, its used like the longsword.
@lich109
@lich109 8 жыл бұрын
They're fully aware, it doesn't mean they can't compare them though.
@bootymane9907
@bootymane9907 6 жыл бұрын
There are many, many drills that I use with the Katana that I would break my wrist doing with a Longsword because of its crossguards. There is give amd take with both swords. With the Longsword you get better thrusting, the ability to hook with the crossguard and attack with it. And you can cut one way and come back with the opposite edge. But the Katana can switch directions much better and easier also giving you the thick baton like spine you could ko someone with by ringing their bell. I prefer the Katana. I think contrary to popular belief the Longsword is a harder weapon to learn in the short term atleast. But im so well trained with it I could never switch up except for this Tachi Im getting but thats far less different.
@CoffeeSnep
@CoffeeSnep 5 жыл бұрын
@@bootymane9907 I still personally prefer the longsword. We practice a lot of false edge cuts at my HEMA club, which I couldn't due with a single edged sword. I also enjoy the greater reach (especially with the larger, Italian longswords), the ability to use the crossguard and pommel better in combat (very nice when grappling). The crossguard does get in the way a little, but I'd warrant the protection it yields outweighs that. Besides, I'd say longswords are much more versatile overall, as it is one of the only swords that is viable in armored combat. (Half swording, murder strokes, etc.)
@Dolbsha
@Dolbsha 8 жыл бұрын
The big difference between the Katana and European swords, is that the Katana shape has never changed drastically, just its weight focus, curve and length, while European swords evolved with tactics, always adapting and changing to suit the army of the day. European swords have adaptability on their side, and metal quality. Japan did well with the poor iron that they had to work with, while the Europeans had better raw materials to work with.
@qiangluo1974
@qiangluo1974 8 жыл бұрын
sabre vs katana sabre has big advantage. it is more agile and has longer reach. Katana has longer lever and greater initial acceleration. but usualy won't overcome the reach and mobility of the sabre. Sometimes you can use Katana like a Sabre, holding at the end of the handle and extent the length over the sabre. but that trick only work as element of surprise, once your opponent notice the telegraph it won't work.
@Duvagnara
@Duvagnara 7 жыл бұрын
There was a battle between these two. It happened in a duel during Russian-Japanese war 1904-5. Though you see samurai didnt exist at this period. It is said that that a ''samurai'' ( probably a soldier of samurai heritage) faced a Montenegrin soldier in one on one fight. There is a folklore song that talks about this fight. Where he, Lekso Saicic defeated him in a fair battle. He was one of the best saber fighter in whole Montenegro. They fought alongside Russia in this war.
@noobacassparta7883
@noobacassparta7883 8 жыл бұрын
Why do you compare swords in the end it's the swordsman who makes the sword and if you want to be a good swordsman you need to be able to uses all swords
@xyy9040
@xyy9040 8 жыл бұрын
that's what he was saying from the beginning..
@Darth_Nycta_13
@Darth_Nycta_13 8 жыл бұрын
the kyu gunto and shin gunto
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