Cleveland's Abandoned "Subway"

Рет қаралды 271,373

11 ай бұрын

Cleveland had a "subway" of sorts that allowed streetcars to access the lower deck of the Detroit-Superior Bridge (Veterans Memorial Bridge) between 1917 and 1954. Except for a few tours every now and then, this unique aspect of Cleveland's history is closed to the public. In this video, we'll not only look at the history of the Detroit-Superior Bridge, but we'll also explore the abandoned streetcar level.
To learn more about Cleveland’s streetcar system, watch this video I previously made: • The Lost Streetcars of...
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Special thanks to the Cuyahoga County Department of Public Works and the County Executive's Office for granting me special access to the streetcar level.
For more info visit this website: www.veteransmemorialbridge.org/
Works Cited:
Toman, James A., et al. When Cleveland Had a Subway. 1999.
Carol Poh Miller, Detroit-Superior High-Level Bridge, Historic American Engineering Record, document OH-6, 1978.
"Favours High Level Bridge. City Engineer Carter Thinks Such a Structure Should Take Place of." Plain Dealer, 25 Apr. 1903, p.12.
"$2,000,000 For A New Bridge? Measure Authorizing Vote on Bond Issue to Come Before Council." Plain Dealer, 6 June 1905, p.2.
"County Approves High Level Bridge Voters Give 35,000 Majority on Proposition to Issue Bonds for." Plain Dealer, 9 Nov. 1910, p. 4.
“Terminal Subways for the Detroit-Superior Bridge; a Report, Approved by the Board of Directors, September 7, 1915.” HathiTrust, babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.32044026947796&view=1up&seq=9.
Footage used:
19-minute Super-8 film: Ohio Rapid Transit, Shaker Heights RTA Light Rail - 1982 (4K / restored): • 🚇 🚃 19-minute Super-8 ...

Пікірлер: 223

@RailroadStreet 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for watching, everyone! Have you ever attended one of the Veterans Memorial Bridge Subway tours held over the years? What topic(s) should I cover for future videos?

@forgottenplaces9780 11 ай бұрын

You should do one on the B&O roundhouse in the flats, or one on the abandoned Youngstown viaducts.

@orangecayman520 11 ай бұрын

Yes! My grandpa took me there when I was little

@railfan439 11 ай бұрын

I rode the streetcars until their demise. They were replaced by two-wire "Trackless Trollys" which were replaced by busses. I also rode the rapid transit when it first opened in about 1954. I lived down in the West 25th street Projects, went to Wm. H. McGuffey school on W 29th street from K-4. Thanks for taking me back to my youth, and my neighborhood. Jon

@toyotaprius79 11 ай бұрын

Electrification was the primary target

@LetsGoChaseThatTrain 8 ай бұрын

@@toyotaprius79 The primary target was replacing them with buses (General Motors) that ran on rubber tires (Firestone) and consumed fuel (Standard Oil of California, today's Chevron).

@Jacksxb 8 ай бұрын

Those projects seem like a really cool place to grow up especially at the boom of Cleveland, they can be a little run down now but same as everywhere

@CrossOfBayonne 7 ай бұрын

They were also common in NJ too and in New York.

@rael5469 2 ай бұрын

I remember that Chicago had electric busses.

@NathanDeger 11 ай бұрын

What have we built that will look like this in 100 years? I don't think anything. It's so sad we abandoned these amazing projects and didn't maintain them. Cleveland is truly a great city past. Thank you for preserving its memory.

@wjatube 2 ай бұрын

First you need to bring the population back and an industry to be supported. Unlikely to happen there.

@Ice_Karma 10 ай бұрын

1:43 Can we just take a second to appreciate the sharpness and clarity of this photograph, taken on a bright, sunny spring day, within an hour or two of solar noon, over a hundred years ago?

@scottyb68 11 ай бұрын

Fact is all big cities should go back to these types of transportation. Far less noise and pollution. And you could get anywhere in the area quickly.

@eleventy-seven 11 ай бұрын

Gas companies don't want that.😓

@railroadforest30 11 ай бұрын

Strongly agree

@armorpro573 2 ай бұрын

Unfortunately due to rising costs and a car-dependent society, that won't happen for some time

@goodmaro 2 ай бұрын

No, the factors that make them attractive apply only to limited circumstances, and that's true whether they're streetcars on rails or trolleys on rubber. Using and maintaining the catenaries in a multimodal environment is a headache, and breakdowns are more disruptive than they'd be with buses. The limited circumstances where they make sense are as interurbans, if you have suitable routes and connections for them.

@someblaqguy Ай бұрын

@@armorpro573 A car dependant society created by successful schemes of big oil sadly.

@cascadianrangers728 11 ай бұрын

America used to have so many nice things. It really makes sense to have a second deck on bridges, i hope they open up the other floor to foot traffic, it would make a lovely breezeway

@AsbestosMuffins 11 ай бұрын

having a subway would be really useful in Cleveland too

@dbolt6543 11 ай бұрын

Toronto built a bridge in the early 1900 called the Prince Edward Viaduct over the Don Valley. It was built with a street car level that never saw any service for 50 years, but in the 1960 it became the right of way for the Bloor Danforth subway and still see heavy service to this day.

@ryanfoster213 11 ай бұрын

It's true. The designer of the Prince Edward Viaduct had great foresight. He included a lower deck for subway trains even though it would be 48 years from the year the viaduct opened before subway trains would run along it.

@goodmaro 2 ай бұрын

@@ryanfoster213 That's a great story. Sort of like the Pennsylvania Turnpike, but deliberate instead of accidental "foresight". Or the way some of the Old Croton Aqueduct came back into service for Poughkeepsie, and various rights of way are getting reused, but those stories are also not as good because they weren't preceded by a time of non-use when brand new. And then there was the effort with the 2nd Avenue subway, where they found out, nah, we can't use these tunnels.

@ingridfong-daley5899 11 ай бұрын

The worker giving you a ride really did allow your footage to come across like a genuine recreation of the original ride--what great footage!!

@jimc4731 7 ай бұрын

I remember sticking my head out of the trolly window to look down through the ties to the river and businesses below. JIM ❤

@ingridfong-daley5899 7 ай бұрын

That's so great!! :) @@jimc4731

@jess4metoo 11 ай бұрын

I can’t believe they would just abandon their rail system.

@texaswunderkind 11 ай бұрын

The "Big Three" automakers threw a lot of $$$ at politicians to replace dirty and dangerous (in their words) streetcars with safe, reliable buses. Produced by them, of course. In some cases General Motor bought the streetcar line and just closed its doors.

@cubbi2789 11 ай бұрын

If you hadn’t posted this, I would have never known that there was a tunnel for a railroad underneath the Superior bridge. Makes me want to go to the museum to check out the trains that would travel there. Thank you for sharing

@danielposlet9519 11 ай бұрын

Aw man you just missed your chance to walk the old tracks this summer. Every once in awhile the county will open it up for the public to view.

@MrRickFoster 11 ай бұрын

They open the lower level for tours certain holidays and days during the year. They always post online.

@mcrow3856 11 ай бұрын

Cleveland’s incompetence when it came to rapid transit in the early 20th century definitely held them back.

@yodorob 9 ай бұрын

At least it has one rapid transit line where its competitors like Detroit, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, or St. Louis have none. (Light rail and modern streetcars are a different story.)

@johnchambers8528 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for the video. I am from Philadelphia, PA and we still have five trolley lines that server the west and southwest part of the city. They use a trolley subway that runs to downtown and parcels our main east-west heavy subway for part of their run. Like Cleveland when they came out of the subway they run on public streets to the end of their lines. Too bad Cleveland gave up on this system. It still could be useful today if it served the outlying areas and was extended to get to Public square where you could connect with the heavy rail line and the two trolley lines that still serve downtown Cleveland.

@TubeRadiosRule 11 ай бұрын

@@Joseph-ke3xc They were atrocious even when I lived in Philly, from 1986 to 1989. My dad was stationed at the navy base at the south end of the city. I had to take the subway from the sports complex to the Olney Ave. station and then walk to school (Central HS) from there. I hear from people who have lived there more recently that it has gotten even worse.

@neuralwarp 11 ай бұрын

I visited Pittsburg once, and discovered the heritage line was about to close. I was the only passenger on it. I got talking to the driver, and he let me drive it a few yards. That same car! Bittersweet memories.

@chevy266nova 11 ай бұрын

I remember riding on the streetcars as a child. I liked the sounds they made.

@Bird_Nerd_97 5 ай бұрын

Does Cleveland still have the lines in place? That was something that really caught my eye in Dayton. They had busses running off the same electric lines until the 80s and then never bothered to take down the cables. It has to be a million times easier to bring this stuff back if half the infrastructure is still there.

@RegebroRepairs 11 ай бұрын

USA: "How do we fix the car congestion!?" Cleveland: "I know, we remove public transport so people HAVE to use cars!" Logic:

@mattskustomkreations 10 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing. My grandfather worked the trolleys and later buses in Cleveland. I had no idea the bridge had a trolley deck.

@LeeHawkinsPhoto 11 ай бұрын

The original plan was not just for the subway to end at either bridge approach-a full subway loop had been proposed through Downtown that would have taken trains through Union Terminal (Tower City) down Euclid and under Public Square down Superior, and the loop would connect Superior and Euclid around E 18th at what is now CSU. The line down Euclid would run underground out past University Circle and become an elevated line at about E 125, and a future expansion under Superior would be built in. The subway to the West would go under Detroit and surface at about where the West Boulevard Station is now, and process to Hopkins on the current alignment, while the subway under W 25th would surface around Columbus Road and run as an elevated line to Parma. The entire thing was fully funded in the 1950s and got kaboshed by Cleveland’s own car-loving Robert Moses-esque villain, Cuyahoga County Engineer Albert S. Porter. Porter planned the freeway system the region has today, and intended to pave the Shaker Lakes, which he referred to as “two-bit duck ponds”. He was a local Democratic Party boss during his run as county engineer, and eventually got busted by the feds for a corrupt pay kickback scheme in his office, later dying in prison.

@RailroadStreet 11 ай бұрын

From my research, that was a separate plan from the Detroit-Superior Bridge streetcar level. The subway tunnels for the bridge were always supposed to terminate at W. 28th and Church Ave., with the exception of the one on Superior. At a later point, the plan was to extend the east tunnel from W. 9th to Public Square, returning to the bridge by way of a subway loop. This was planned well before the Cleveland Union Terminal was chosen to be constructed at Public Square. The subway extension for the Detroit-Superior bridge was rejected by voters in January 1920. The subway plan you are referring to was proposed in the 1950s. Source: "Terminal Subways for the Detroit-Superior Bridge; a Report, Approved by the Board of Directors, September 7, 1915."

@LeeHawkinsPhoto 11 ай бұрын

@@RailroadStreet that sounds about right…I know the subway I described was proposed in the 1950s, but I do believe there was a proposal back in the 1920s for a subway loop to relieve congestion Downtown. Cincinnati actually built theirs back around WWI, but alas, the rails were never installed so service could begin. 🤦🏻‍♂️

@nitehawk86 11 ай бұрын

A literal railroad street :)

@WhiteWolfUSA31454 2 ай бұрын

Man I grew up in Cleveland Ohio most of my life. I so wish I could of live and experience those days. Now I live in Missouri. But always Cleveland be in my heart forever.

@owenmcdonald6479 6 ай бұрын

I have an interesting parallel to this. The Superior Bridge was completed in 1918. In Toronto Canada, the Bloor Street Viaduct was also completed in 1918. BOTH were built as double decker bridges, and both cost roughly the same amount of money to build. The Cleveland bridge to take street cars - which they already had - on the lower deck. Toronto already had street cars but the lower deck wasn't built for that. It was built based on a vision that Toronto would eventually have a subway system running along Bloor Street. Toronto didn't even have a subway system of any kind at that time. The first line of the Toronto Subway went north-south and didn't open until 1954. The Bloor Street (east-west) line didn't open until 1966. At the time of construction when they got to the viaduct, the vision of city leaders 48 years earlier, saved many millions of dollars in construction costs as a new bridge for the subway line wasn't needed. It's a shame the Veterans Memorial Bridge lower deck can't be repurposed for something grand, today.

@BartoloVids 11 ай бұрын

Having recently gotten into the history of cleveland, this channel is a blessing. Keep up the great work!

@wjatube 2 ай бұрын

I remember as a child riding the "rapid transit" train you'd pickup in Brookpark near the airport. We would take into downtown to watch our Cleveland Indians. It's amazing to think all these impressive engineering accomplishments occurred 60 years prior.

@cait. 11 ай бұрын

I’ve been under that bridge a few times for an annual festival they used to have in it! It was so cool. I think it was maybe 15 years ago? One year they had a waterfall going off the bridge from the inside. It was called ‘the ingenuity festival’. Idk why they stopped having it under there though 😔

@RailroadStreet 11 ай бұрын

I did a little research; the year Ingenuity Fest had the waterfall was in 2010. I even found a video of it on KZfaq: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fJObeJCS0LqshJs.html I had no idea that was even a thing, pretty cool! They also held Ingenuity Fest under the bridge in 2011 too.

@edwardmiessner6502 11 ай бұрын

It would have been nice if they had built high platforms, brouht in level boarding, and extended a tunnel to the main railway terminal where it would have met the remaining trams and the heavy rail transit. Then the streetcar subway could have been kept in service.

@Josh-yr7gd 11 ай бұрын

I just went on the tour last weekend (6-24-23) when it was open to the public. I really hope it's turned into a pedestrian pathway and park. That could bring a lot of tourism to Cleveland.

@brainfreeze44131 11 ай бұрын

I walked the area with my mother in 2019. She rode the street cars. They didn't have a car and that was the only way to get around. I don't remember seeing that much concrete missing on the sides. There was open holes that you could look thru and some overlooks. They are looking for suggestions about what they should do with this area.

@ianhomerpura8937 11 ай бұрын

Or better yet, rebuild the streetcar network.

@williamerazo3921 11 ай бұрын

Or turn it back to light rail transit

@thedreadpirateroberts 11 ай бұрын

@@williamerazo3921 It would be nice to have a light rail expanded into Lakewood and build station near Edgewater Beach. I grew up on the east side of Cleveland and when I was a teen I always found it difficult to get to the beach via public transit. The only option was to take the 3 (Superior/Detroit) bus then take a long walk from Detroit ave. I haven’t lived in Cleveland for about 20 yrs so I’m not sure if things have changed since.

@thetrainguy1 11 ай бұрын

Maybe with all these good bones. Public Transportation can once again be reinvested in.

@wjatube 2 ай бұрын

Very doubtful without a downtown industry to support it. As Detroit has found out trying to get public voting approved on their rail system hasn't been successful.

@davidwilliams1060 11 ай бұрын

Thanks! Lots of new information for me. My family had a furniture store on Detroit Ave near W 25th that derived a lot of their customers from the subway.

@stephen70edwards 11 ай бұрын

Really nice video. I appreciate all the research and editing that went into it

@JusticeAlways 11 ай бұрын

Well done video. Enjoyed the old time photos. I visited that city once back in the 1990's...was impressed. 👍

@elizabethhollowaye7494 10 ай бұрын

This double-decker bridge looks like the famous bridge in Sydney, Australia. The lower level was designed to accommodate streetcars and eventually (at that time) s subway line. In Toronto, the Prince Edward Viaduct another double-decker bridge was built, and officially opened in 1919, a year after Cleveland's. The lower level originally accommodated streetcars, which ran on Bloor Street and Danforth Avenue, depending on the side of the Don River that they travelled. The first stretch of the Bloor-Danforth subway line was completed and ran between Keele and Woodbine, and subway trains used the tracks in the lower levels.

@musicmanfelipe 11 ай бұрын

That blue Airport train looks an awful lot like the old MBTA Blue Line trains. I think they were made by St Louis as well.

@unclenogbad1509 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for this. I love Streetcars (or Tramways as we call them in the UK), so seeing another bit of history such as this is a treat. Like yours, all of our lines were pulled up in the 1950's, mistakenly believing them to be obsolete. Now, though, they're making something of a comeback, to relieve congestion in our crowded cities. Maybe Cleveland could one day get them back? Who knows.

@jooberboober4609 11 ай бұрын

Man lemme tell you, I hope Cleveland gets solid rail transit back.

@unclenogbad1509 11 ай бұрын

@@jooberboober4609 Hope you do. Cleveland seems like an interesting place. The more I read about you, your attitudes etc, the more you seem like America's Cockneys. (NB, Londoner myself, so that's a positive thing. Other parts of UK may disagree).

@roywhitman7109 11 ай бұрын

Great video! I had the opportunity to be involved in the bridge's rehab back in the early 90's. Fascinating project!! Thanks!!👍

@OldmanGamerYT 11 ай бұрын

That was really cool! Thanks for sharing!

@silver-berry 3 ай бұрын

I went up to the Bridge for a 2017 public visit. It was a very cool experience, but crowded, and more closed off than recently. The personal tour here was a great look around. Especially loved the imaginary ride across the bridge! Thanks for the great share. 😁

@southtexasprepper1837 11 ай бұрын

I'm sorry if I'm a sucker for nostalgia, but I'd love to see that trolleys could make a comeback. Even if they could be used as a tourist attraction. Cities have to find innovative ways to preserve and maintain their history, yet bring in tourism to help wih the local economies. It would be great to have the Trolley System make a comeback in Cleveland, Ohio.

@southtexasprepper1837 8 ай бұрын

@joshuareyes9284 I share your views abotu what you've said. I still a sucker for nostalgia.

@patrickmaynard7553 11 ай бұрын

Ohioans just can't seem to catch a break in terms of having decent transit. That's the biggest reason why I'm unlikely ever to move back to the state. If Cleveland were to by some miracle start building another RTA line -- a real, grade-separated, high-frequency rail line going deep into the suburbs, not some glorified bus where traffic signal priority can be turned off after a few driver complaints -- I would start looking for job and housing options in the city tomorrow, with the genuine hope of moving in and contributing my tax dollars. I know I'm not the only former Ohioan who feels that way

@garyedl8351 11 ай бұрын

Spent the last 22 years working in and on this structure! Very Cool piece of history!

@badshard09 11 ай бұрын

Hopefully they do renovate it like that. Great video.

@SupremeLeaderKimJong-un 9 ай бұрын

In the tune of the Hastily Made Cleveland Tourism song: "Come and check out our cool abandoned subway! It's not a true subway, it's just on a bridge!" Kudos to that worker for giving you a ride and making it feel like the closest you could get to a bumpy streetcar ride on that bridge. On top of the fact it's less scary when you're with someone! The RTA Red Line is another piece of fascinating Cleveland transit infrastructure. As you showed, Red Line trains head to the airport for its western terminus, which the Airport station began operations in November 1968, making Cleveland the first city in North America to offer direct rapid transit service to its major airport. Both Airport and Tower City are the only underground stations on the Red Line. An impressive tram system is Pyongyang's, which is on top of the two Metro lines. The network has over 53 km with three main lines, and a smaller fourth one. The three main lines uses Tatra trams and new partially domestically produced ones. The fourth one was created to connect the Pyongyang Metro station at Kim Il-sung University to the Kumsusan Palace of the Sun, the mausoleum of Kim Il-sung and Kim Jong-il. A Pyongyang Metro station was once at the palace’s site, but once it became a mausoleum in 1995, it became sacred ground and thus it was closed with the tram line built. Unlike the rest of the network, the tram that runs on this Kumsusan line uses a Zurich tram built in the late 40s that was retired in 1994 where it was purchased by us the next year.

@RGC198 11 ай бұрын

Great video. Thanks for sharing. Lve the bridge there. It reminds me of the Sydney Harbour Bridge here in Australia, which also used to include trams (streetcars) crossing it and this was also connected to an underground. Sydney Harbour Bridge lost its trams back in 1958. The trams on the Sydney Harbour Bridge, ran underground from Wynyard (under Sydney CBD) on to the bridge using two eastern lanes. Road traffic ran in the centre and the trains ran on the western side of the bridge, also coming through from an underground leading to Wynyard. When the trams were removed, the two eastern lanes were given to road traffic. Just of interest; my dad was born in 1917.

@murraykitson1436 10 ай бұрын

Very reminiscent of the Sydney Harbour Bridge setup ! The former tram line was actually intended to be a railway line to the Northern Beaches , however this project was never completed.

@syedasifazam4960 11 ай бұрын

What an amazing transport system at that time .

@harryscott9533 11 ай бұрын

Great video, a lot of history there 🤓🙋‍♂️👍

@KronoGarrett 11 ай бұрын

It was supposed to be expanded into a proper premetro system. There are rumors of "blind headers" under Terminal Tower from the old Shaker Station that would have enabled a connection to the west side (Gold Line), which instead ended up being the Cleveland State Line.

@ianhomerpura8937 11 ай бұрын

Can it still be done today?

@KronoGarrett 11 ай бұрын

@@ianhomerpura8937 It would take a friendly state government that wants to spend more on transit than it spends on mowing highway medians.

@jimholder6656 11 ай бұрын

An interesting report -- many thanks!

@shakascloset1700 11 ай бұрын

Awesome video, i love local history. Lorain County here

@mht5875 11 ай бұрын

Truly fascinating!

@scotchtowerbibletractsocie8083 5 ай бұрын

At 12:41 I yelled "YES! DO THAT!" at my television. What a wonderful and infuriating video.

@thesteelrodent1796 11 ай бұрын

Looks like it would be easy to restore the streetcar operation if the tunnels are still there. Most cities spend billions reinstating their tram systems, because they have to build bridges and underpasses, but here you already have the infrastructure to get across the river. It's just a matter of reusing it.

@jcraigshelton 11 ай бұрын

Fun times in Cleveland today! CLEVELAND!!

@AverytheCubanAmerican 10 ай бұрын

The Detroit-Superior Bridge is similar in design to the Sydney Harbour Bridge! Of course the Sydney Harbour Bridge is more iconic, newer, and bigger as it opened in 1932 and took over eight years to build a 3,770-foot-long bridge, but it opened with tram tracks just like Cleveland! They didn't build a lower deck for trams like Cleveland did however, but rather it ran right next to cars. Tram service across the bridge ended in 1958 and the tracks they had used were removed and replaced by two extra road lanes which are the leftmost southbound lanes. But that's not all as it also opened for trains! The first test train, a steam locomotive, safely crossed the bridge in January 1932. The bridge lies between Milsons Point and Wynyard railway stations, located on the north and south shores respectively, with two tracks running along the western side of the bridge. These tracks are part of the North Shore railway line, and the trains still run on the bridge today! In 2010, the average daily traffic included 204 trains!

@patrickmuhwheeney6518 11 ай бұрын

Well done...Thanks!

@wadp5962 11 ай бұрын

By a happy coincidence I had just finished reading James R. Spangler's and James A. Toman's book "Cleveland And Its Streetcars", which mentions the bridge and tunnels. It got me wondering if there's anything left of this. Your interesting video answers my question. I'll watch your video on Cleveland's streetcars later.

@dinopulizzi8481 11 ай бұрын

A informative video ! Thank You .

@RobertPlattBell 11 ай бұрын

Nicely done video!!

@interwebtubes 11 ай бұрын

Nice video piece, Stay safe everyone and enjoy the show

@johnsmart964 9 ай бұрын

Thank you for bringing us this very interesting and informative video presentation which is very much appreciated by the people. It is is a pity such transit systems were closed down, it seems that the 1950s and 60s were bad years for transit systems and are now often regretted closures. This is a beautifully produced video.

@777whitestone 11 ай бұрын

Very nice. Thanks a lot.

@williamerazo3921 6 ай бұрын

Thank you about talking about the PCC. In 2022 I went to the area and Trolley was gone. The city was peeping the area for development sell and removed the PCC. I always wanted to stop by and get a picture

@PomchillasItems 7 ай бұрын

love this,, thank you

@user-gk8gg1zt7l 11 ай бұрын

Very nice!!!

@philipkoenig9197 11 ай бұрын

Excellent thank you!

@Rockman_Halo 11 ай бұрын

I wanna go back to see how nice it was to get downtown. Cleveland is a wonderful place to live but the way they ruined our transit haunts me

@noahrademaker3014 6 ай бұрын

Interesting video! Thanks😁🫶🏽

@hemaccabe4292 11 ай бұрын

It's such a shame, with just a bit of work, that level could easily be reconditioned as a pedestrian/bicycle level to support more pedestrian transportation options in the area.

@OrganNLou 8 ай бұрын

There is also an abandoned subway in Cincinnati as well.

@RSF-DiscoveryTime 11 ай бұрын

11:55 I just love the way the prices AND Date are clearly visible...that's a find by itself.

@davidoverholt251 6 ай бұрын

Thanks!

@stickynorth 6 ай бұрын

The city should look at reviving its streetcar network... Including this magnificent piece of infrastructure...

@Madness832 11 ай бұрын

The front end of that "Bluebird" subway car looks very similar to some long-retired cars from Boston (although they had been made by Pullman-Standard).

@Bread-nx9fo 10 ай бұрын

Segregation and the automobile industry leaving the Midwest “rust belt” really destroyed places like Detroit, Chicago, Cleveland, and Flint. I’m glad Detroit and Cleveland are renovating abandoned places and helping reform communities.

@jordansean18 8 ай бұрын

Every city has a Railroad Street, but these days most of them have become a memorial to the railroads they replaced with cars...

@tombloom99 11 ай бұрын

There is an interesting fiction book about the tunnel system in Cleveland called "Follow Me Down" by MacKenny.

@TARDISwinning 11 ай бұрын

Love your videos, I'm glad to see them getting more views because they should be appreciated! This history is fascinating. Please keep it up

@pedropuckerstein4670 11 ай бұрын

Nice would be Cleveland version of Manhattan highline 😅

@TubeRadiosRule 11 ай бұрын

It definitely made sense to keep the trolley and auto traffic separated, but they were a hazard to pedestrians, too! My great-great grandpa, a Civil War veteran, died in 1918 when he slipped on the ice and fell in front of a street car in Grand Rapids, Michigan. He had been deafened by cannon fire during the war and didn't hear it coming.

@mfbfreak 10 ай бұрын

Even today, many people die where pedestrian crossings and trolley tracks intersect. Light rail is an important part of local and regional mobility, but even a trolley is nothing less than a real train, though smaller, and thus just as deadly to humans. Rail should be physically separated from pedestrians and cyclists. Even the newest of rail vehicles don't have to have the same stopping distance, nor the same pedestrian impact reducing measures, that cars from the past 20 or so years have. A lot more people in Amsterdam die by tram, than by city bus. It's tragic because Amsterdam can't operate without its tram network. Perhaps a suggestion for tram manufacturers - in addition to the rail brakes, mount rubber 'skis' under the tram, that offer the same friction as tires on asphalt when extended pneumatically. Everywhere near a pedestrian crossing (if the tram tracks are embedded into the grass) the city can put like 50 meters of asphalt on both sides of the crossing that the rubber 'skis' can act on. I am confident that with the right kind of tech, you can reduce the stopping distance to something similar to a city bus. Rail has its place in urban mobility - on elevated tracks or in tunnels - until pedestrian safety has improved to the levels of buses and cars.

@Ichwillkeinenaliascheisyoutube 11 ай бұрын

The streetcar Level and the whole streetcar system should be renewed . Some day All cities that closed their streetcar systems recognize that they made a failure....

@Nkp757railfan 11 ай бұрын

This event looked so cool I wanted to go but I was at waseuon. Are you going to make that cp&le video?

@yogiperogy 11 ай бұрын

What a cool presentation sir! Very well put together with so much archival material! I live in Winnipeg Canada but your subject matter was fascinating nonetheless, and certainly captured and held my attention throughout! Needless to say I have subscribed. Thank you very much for a fascinating production.

@jasonfield8823 11 ай бұрын

Very similar to the Sydney Harbour Bridge, which still has trains running on it. It also used to have trams (streetcars) as well.

@fedel.g.1803 10 ай бұрын

Increíble!!!

@F40M07 11 ай бұрын

Hmmm. Never knew Cleveland had that.

@RicoGalassi 11 ай бұрын

So mad I missed this tour. We live only a few blocks from the veterans bridge and I would have loved to see it!

@fredunwin996 10 ай бұрын

I was on the basement floor of the Rockefeller Building in the 1980's. I remember what look to me like a subway station on that level. Is there any documentation as to the East side areas to access the trolleys?

@LunarEquity93 11 ай бұрын

Wow great find it would be nice if they can resurrect this and use it again

@withershin 6 ай бұрын

Subway is a general term for a thoroughfare below grade. Technically this would be a Streetcar (Tram) subway. In Toronto we just call them subways but technically they are subway trains and we have subway streetcar passages too.

@neville132bbk 6 ай бұрын

The only tram system ( apart from one I think recreated in CBD Auckland) operating in NZ now is the one in Christchurch, mainly really a tourist set of lines, with prices to match, thereby restricting popular use. It was badly damaged by the disastrous Great Earthquake of Feb 2011 and has taken since then to get it fully back into operation. Christchurch never had trolley buses, going straight to diesels when trams were phased out in the early-mid 1950s.

@rayizard5687 6 ай бұрын

0:18 Not to mention the opening credits of the Drew Carry Show!

@kylr23 10 ай бұрын

Im a Volunteer at Seashore Trolley Museum we also have several Cleveland cars 1227 (in our car barn)a Center Loaded 53 foot car, and Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority 113 (unknown) there very interesting cars to look at.

@paulhealy2557 11 ай бұрын

I used to live in Lakewood to use the current RT you have to get to just beyond the boundary for West 117th and Madison station. I did drive to it and take train to towercity a few times for getting to baseball games. It was shocking for me as someone used to getting to soccer games in London, such a small % of the people used the RT there was no queues or crowding. RT and Buses are seen as something only poorest use

@amanda1500 11 ай бұрын

Because for most of us in Cleveland suburbs, where public transit is not near, why drive a distance and park to ride train when you can drive on your own the whole way. We don't have the structure as you do in London. I have enjoyed riding the train to baseball games downtown, but the stations are further out of my way and take much more time to commute.

@GeneralJackRipper 11 ай бұрын

Cool.

@markm-ci6rj 10 ай бұрын

Interesting video, well made, but what happened to the street car you mention and what are the lights for in that tunnel the city installed?

@RailroadStreet 10 ай бұрын

It was moved to Buckeye Lake, OH in 2021. The car is privately owned and was on loan to Cuyahoga County for the bridge tours.

@mathyeti 11 ай бұрын

I recollect that the Bloor Street viaduct in Toronto was built in 1905, including a lower level for streetcars. This was never used until the Line 2 subway was opened in 1966, I wonder if this was inspired by the Cleveland bridge, or vice-versa?

@MrRaab-hu9rs 3 ай бұрын

@7:34 Where specifically was "this building" that had the PCC streetcar on display?

@Ptm6569 11 ай бұрын

cool never been down there would like to

@williamerazo3921 7 ай бұрын

Just went over the bridge just now

@KlodFather 10 ай бұрын

I rode my motorcycle to the Clev Flats to enjoy some of the great food sold by venders there in the early 2000's. I remember seeing this bridge. I used to drive up to Cleveland on company business and saw much of this on my trips, including the bridge and banks of the Cuyahoga River that caught fire. You should go talk to the old timers who were there when that fire happened... Its not how history has it recorded. It was the J&L railroad bridge along with the preservative they coat the timbers with and some other debris that caught fire, not the contents of the river. I was there and heard the stories and saw the photos from the Steel Mill safety officer they had on archive. It was one hell of a story and from what I could tell from standing there looking at it, the story of the river burning was a large stretch of the facts and partly urban legend.