I laughed seeing the thumbnail for this come up. When I got back into the hobby a few years ago I bought a set of these for about £100 altogether before the prices shot up, and having been wanting the alternative numbered set for a while I was able to bag them for £140 just recently. At roughly £40 per coach I'm so glad this hobby has a strong second-hand market.

There's a story why Bachmann stopped supplying Hattons. They did it because Hattons was making their own models, some of which (Class 66, garatt) was in direct competition with Bachmann. That's why they decided to not make Hattons their stockist.

Great review Sam. I was able to get these 43.50 each yesterday from Rails of Sheffield using their 5 percent off coupon. Cant wait to get them although shipping them to me in the US is not cheap! Cheers!

I'm a big SECR fan, I've ended up with 3 sets.😱 absolutely love them.

I've got the N gauge ones and paid £95 (on offer) for the triple set in Southern green. Still expensive in my opinion, but they are amazing to look at and run very smoothly. I'd recommend the N ones if you can find them discounted.

I bet those white roofs didn’t stay white for long! Some simple weathering is a must.

A really honest review Sam! Re. the lack of lights, I got caught out the same with the Bachmann LMS inspection saloon. I even e-mailed Bachmann, who stated it "gives modellers the choice of what lighting system they wish to use". On a £75 coach? Sadly, Bachmann (and others), know exactly who pays their wages- the mugs who complain but pay out over inflated prices regardless! Sorry if that offends anyone, but while people keep paying, manufacturers will keep over charging..

Great video Sam! I love the color on these coaches

I remember when the ones you have for review, were released at around the £50 marker, with a second batch being around £70 and then the current batch at £90. It is a shame about the price increase, but when getting them for their original value, they are great models to have.

What a beautiful looking train Sam. Excellent !!

Another good Review Sam, honestly I am really shocked how it is such high priced carriages is so basic and featureless... If more wagons and coaches are going to be turned out like this then it might be worth adding features to your review categories to split it from details for the sake of clarity? Honestly though I am glad I waited for you to do a review on these first before buying them as I would have felt so robbed if I only found out about these short commings when they turned up in the post.

Thanks for sharing and advising that even New, these are just about affordable. I see some are just over £50 which is still expensive in my book but it then comes to how much I want them. I did buy a set of these in BR Crimson livery second hand for £30 a coach a year or so ago. However, I really want the Dark Lake Livery, so thank you for making me aware how much the price has come down for new stock.

Looks very nice. Keep being awesome my friend. Ur trains are the best. I still have lots of work to do on my layout. Until then I still have to get new trains cause all of them stopped working. Sadly

Expensive but I’ll definitely be adding them to my Christmas list this year they’re really nice indeed amazing review to day sam

I've been waiting for a video like this confirming that they are lovely coaches but really expensive! I have to say that I was shocked to see the new Bachmann Bulleid coaches on sale at Swanage for £75 each. I'd imagine they must have a similar RRP but for unlined coaches with no panelling and probably a similar lack of features.

I bought the set when they first came out. They are the best looking rtr coaches I have seen.

FANTASTICALLY TERRIFICALLY AWESOMELY MIXED EMOTIONS ON THIS OFFICIAL REVIEW DESPITE SEVERAL ISSUES!!!

Hey Sam guess what remember showcasing class 08 diesel shunters on your channel well one that I had preordered last year arrived today it's called the PHANTOM and it's beautiful in it's blue livery.

What a lovely loco. I have several grey SE&CR steam locomotives and I have been looking at these as I need coaches for them. However, they are too expensive for what you get. I wanted 2 to respray as LMR coaches too

I am patiently waiting for Sam’sTrains to Finally do a Review on the Heljan BR class 28 and start an OO9 layout.

hi Sam I love your reviews and by and large agree with your comments, in the case of these carriages they look good, work well this is what we pay for in new models, the RRP is a total joke! and your discount off 50% sounds good but £45 per coach is still very high, and I think 1 star on value would of been generous keep up the good work on reviews

I have just acquired 4 L&B coaches from Lionheart at £99.99 eacd. I think that is a reasonable price considering that they are very big as they are 0 gauge.The locomotives were dearer but are also reasonably priced as they are also 1/43 scale and look very nice.

They are a joy to the eyes, I too purchased a couple from Hattons at the discounted price. Even pre-owned they attract premium prices in SECR livery over other liveries. They derailed on 1st radius curves😮... I increased the gap between bogie and coach with a piece of plasticard. While doing this, lo and behold the bogies had pick ups!!! So why no lighting!!

I managed to snag 3 of the for £63 (+commission from an auction). I am bloody delighted with mine, although they are in SR green compared to the SECR brown.

Evening Sam... With these and the Hattons and Hornby's Genesis coaches, your pre-grouping SECR locos will be spoiled for choice! Great video as usual.

Those coaches are FANCY! I'm working on concept art for a fusion powered train in the Proxima B system in a sci-fi setting, I'll keep the coach livery in mind for the governmental body's train. Got any ideas on parrent locomotives y'all? Steam preferably (those are easier to convert to a fusion design) or something with a cowl bodies with or without B-units (for fusion turbine engines).

Great video thanks Sam. I recently paid £59.95 each to my set of three (same as yours) , I do really like them but the RRP is crazy.

I have to say, although I’m a North East Guy and will forever have teak as my livery of choice for coaches, that is an incredibly beautiful train with that loco and these coaches

Awesome video Sam's trains

Awesome video today Sam some beautiful coaches shame about the price

Hi Sam love your videos

This might be a good idea for Hornby and Hattons. They both produce various pre-grouping 4 and 6 wheeled coaches (there's still some more they could make like Furness Railway or North Staffordshire Railway coaches). I imagine making some pre-grouping bogey coaches would draw a bit of attention.

Oh, so much to talk about, where to start… Well, never heard of dark lake before, looks pretty good, maybe Hatton’s will get an idea for their Genesis coaches. VERY surprised to see a pre-grouping bogie coach. Not something you see everyday, very unique indeed. Gotta say, Sam, you are spot-on about the price, £90 is absolutely ridiculous. Even though I’ve seen them priced at around £60, it’s still too rich for my blood. Whether or not Bachmann is still around in ten years, who knows! 😠 Hope you have a good day, Sam, and regarding an email I’ve sent, I hope to hear from you soon.

Yes, OK at £40, maybe, although they usually ran in 3-car sets even in BR days, so a high price to pay for authenticity. A single brake 3rd was used on the Kent & East Sussex line for a short while before closure to passengers - it was probably in BR red (carmine).

It would have been great to have seen the interior detailing (with the body removed).

Hi Sam , Yes they do look good, but the price makes my knees go funny 😂, All the best Brian 😃

I don’t have any of these coaches myself but my dad has a pack of these in n gauge but going back to the OO version they look very nice and overall they make a nice train of coaches for the various pre grouping locomotives that would have pulled them, I will be honest with you for the price that you paid for all three of these it’s the same price I paid for a rails/Rapido dynamometer car and that was second hand.

Fantastic review Sam, at RRP these really are shocking! Thanks for the email before, appreciate it. Also which extrusion 3D printer would you recommend (that you use) for creating high detail prints for a beginner?

That's amazing

I completely agree with you on the price. Getting them for £45 each is about the right price, they're quality but definitely not worth £90. Definitely comparable with a current mk1 or mk2. Such a shame they had to be on a 50% discount. There are some of these coaches on the Bluebell Railway in Sussex including one from the SER (coach 1050) and even in third class they're far superior in comfort to a modern unit with that horrible ironing board seating.

I’d love to see the dapol top lights reviewed

16:15 I'm really surprise about that Sam, I thought that they would have had lights in them for that price. Cheers Jasper & Willow

For me, price is one of if not the most important factor to consider when buying model trains. I don't really care about sprung buffers, lights et cetera- they're just selling points and add absolutely nothing to their operation. The Bachmann Birdcage coaches are superb, brilliant models, but I wouldn't pay even half the RRP, because coaches needn't be that expensive- Hornby's Mk1s exemplify the type of carriages I hope to see more of: good price, accurate to the prototype, fair detail.

I have all three, bought second-hand for a good price. I run them with my LBSCR locomotives, since no one makes any LBSCR lined umber coaches (or really any LBSCR coaches post-1899).

Hi, do the various manufacturers take any notice of your excellent reviews?

With the price of rolling stock nowadays, the bogies should be metal and sprung, or at least compensated. Speaking of suspension, you should buy a pre-war Varney locomotive, a modern csb kit, and something with compensation beams to test how well it can work on the carpet! I know that the Varney system and csb make the smoothest running, most powerful locos on most layouts, but I think a video by you could bring more light on the topic which is usually only for finescale crazy people like me! :)

hi sam. as always you hit the nail on the head. the two leading British model train companies have grown used to max profit for poorly cheap produced products baring a very sparsely few models which could be counted on both hands. i have yet to buy a bachmann product but always put it off due to exorbitant high prices unfortunately hornby are following suit and i havent even bothered to be interested in what they offer any more as they are becoming worse especially in describing a product with misleading features. it is a shame that the only two companies that offer a wide selection of british train models have stooped so low and rob us blind .

I'm amazed at the price they aren't lit from the factory. Bachmann US coaches I've bought in the past for far less all came lit. I'm amazed that Bachmann UK doesn't put lights in their coaches.

Do you have a video, or can you make a video about the most essential British locos, (steam era) and rolling stock one should own? I’m an American but love the British modeling scene, so I’d like to know what are some essential locomotives and rolling stock to get…and maybe if you have some pointers on where to get them in America too. Thanks!

Maybe Bachmann has abandoned the U.K. market to pay more attention to the U.S. market. And their SC-44 Charger locomotives in the Amtrak livery are absolutely crushing it, in both HO and N scale! This is a modern “covered wagon”, meaning the body shell is the same width from front to back, like the F7 or the British Class 47, not like an SD40-2. And, inside the box is - and Sam will LOVE this - an offer for Bachmann’s 300 page catalog! 🤣😆 These are rather expensive, but they run like a Swiss watch, and the DCC lighting and sound effects are just BONKERS!! It’s like a UFO on rails! Like most sound-equipped models, these are just jam packed, so serviceability only gets maybe 1-1/2 stars, but the details and quality get the full 5 stars from me. Since this is a passenger loco, it is geared for higher speed, so I’m not expecting a great crawl from it. Someday, I might do a review, “Sam’s Trains” style. 😊

Nice looking coaches 👍😊🤩😁

Interesting and informative as always, but why pose a question in the title and then proceed it with the answer?

Cor - Very posh looking Carriages Sam!!! 🙂🚂🚂🚂

Have you thought about producing your own coaches? It would be interesting to see how much it would cost. Keep up the good work.

So forgive my ignorance, but if there are no lights, what are the pick ups on the bogies for?

Hi Sam; if they have no lighting, then why do you think they have pickups fitted?

A lot of us model railroaders here in the USA started to call Bachmann, BARFMAN back in the late 1980's early 1990's.......a long past model shop owner Stew Marshal who used to own "The Train Depot" in Winter Park Florida USA personally wrote a letter and also paid Bachmann a visit in their offices in Philadelphia PA to express his concerns......he also refused to sell BARFMAN in his shop.

Classic looking...but the price ?

Besides the excellent livery and the fact that these are pre-grouping, there is absolutely nothing special about these. It seems like they did the Autocoach or Dance Hall treatment here (The latter I own because I like the shape). However, Accurascale, Dapol and Hattons offer way more for about a third or half the price. I mean, a rake of four is gonna set you back 360£ RRP which is quite insane. If they did an S&DJR version of these coaches, maybe I would have bought some, but not for 90£ a piece. 45 seems reasonable, if not slightly impressive. If lighted, I'd day 50-60 would be expected for Bachmann but yet again this is a good example why I don't have a lot of Bachmann modern rolling stock. Too expensive, Oxford and Dapol cover my back on value for money wagons and coaches. Great review of beautiful, yet slightly overpriced coaches again, Sam 👍👍

Nice coaches 👏 but not £90 Nice. Great review sam 👏 keep up the good work my friend 👍

The Bachmann Birdcage Coaches do look nice from a distance, but up close you can see the flaws (basic interior detail, lacking in interior lighting, lacking in a way to fit the interior lighting). The price that Bachmann set on top the flaws is mad as a hatter and justifies either waiting for a deep discount or looking elsewhere (Hatton's themselves, Accurascale).

I think they’re worth every penny, I have a rake of 3, and they’re probably the most used coaches on my layout. Never fault weed, and look amazing

Blimey, ~double overpriced in our minds... Just madness this, considering that the likes of Roco do offer interior lighting with stay-alive at ~75 Euro. However, the overall quality of these coaches from B would put them at around ~45 Stirling, and no more. They're not half bad at all but just worth ~half of B's RRP in our opinion. Perhaps all the intricate lining could have added to some cost but it still wouldn't add up. Even the packaging isn't premium at all. Excellent calling out B once and for all Sam. They need to get real but they also know too well perhaps that too many buyers just fall for it as is. Scandalous practices. Cheerio.

I am puzzled by the fact that Bachmann put in the pickups through the axles, but nothing to use the electricity for. Am I missing something? Or is the available electricity for tinkerers that want to put LEDs in themselves? I could see an additional DIY LED-kit as an option (all for reasonable prices of course).

Are you going to get Bachmann's model of the Thomas & Friends character Rebecca? The Rebecca character is a Southern Railway Battle of Britain/West County class

Coaches without lights means a higher profit margin ! (maybe you have to turn off the room lights and set your clocks to 1AM ...)

Hum..! What were the Pick ups for on these models. They look great , but the Price is a "How Much..!?" Moment..! Great Review as Always Sam. Thanx for your Efforts. 😎 P.S. £89 = $170 in Oz..! That is way outa my Price Range..!! 🤑🤮🤢

You can get a set of 8 roco wagons for that price or a set of piko expert coaches.

I forgot how much I paid for mine but I’m pretty sure I got them in red and considerably cheaper than the retail price

You paid 45 quid each for these. For about 10 quid more, the Hornby Coronation Scot coaches have lighting and sprung buffers. These do roll better though

Managed to get a pair for about £80. They're nice enough, but certainly not worth the usual price of around £50-£60 each. They are absolutely stunning though.

That's crazy on price

Hi sam I hope you and Chloe are well Yes even hornby beavertail is cheaper than one coach. Secr coaches came out 2018 I think £90 a coach wtf too expensive for me Keep safe ARP

Agree with your review, except I thought that you could have been a bit more generous on detail. When they first came out I got a set of 3 in Southern Railway livery. They look exquisite in lined green, and I have no problem with their running on my layout (please note that I am not the best at track laying). I felt that they were dear then, but the current prices take my breath away.

Although they're expensive Sam, I really love these coaches. I might get a few of them for my layout, but I'll probably wait until the price comes down a little. Cheers Jasper & Willow

I have said this before. but will say it again, we were told that when manufacturing was moved to China it would make the cost of manufacturing cheaper for the manufacturer and the consumer but as prices continue to rise I believe it probably is cheaper for the manufacturer but they don't seem to be passing on their savings to the consumer, I may be wrong but that's how I see it.

I really do like the look of these coaches

Kernow and Rails have these in stock now for £51.99 to £54.95 each. Maybe Bachmann's strategy is to let retailers discount their products to reach the "right price". Who knows.

Do I see paint lining damage and time 11:23? On the door

You like anything coloured brown or grey Sam, lol !

Considering there is no amount of lighting or power linkage with other coaches available on these, why did they bother giving powered pickups? For the extra weight, maybe?

Why the white tape on some widows ? Does this reduce platform viewing into the poopatorium ?

Thats why most of my rolling stock is preowned

Rails of Sheffield have some at the moment for £54.95 each

How is the distance between those coaches still acceptable in 2023?

wish the best for you

Inflation is really hitting hard. Rapidly rising oil prices have made themselves evident. The price of plastic is rising a bit faster than the overall supply curve. The “sticker shock” factor is going to get worse, not better.

So what purpose do the pickups serve?

I got a couple of these in BR colors plus a 2P loco for £57 second-hand, it's a shame the RRP is so high.

I never thought I would ever say this being the stingy college student that I am, but I think you are being a tad harsh on the value for money. I fully agree on the lack of sprung buffers and lighting and on the middling to poor interior, unforgivable at their RRP, but I actually disagree on the diecast thing, and I don't think you accounted for the complexity of the livery compared to the other coaches you compared them too. Normally I'm a sucker for die cast, in a loco I'd sacrifice most of the other features for a fully die cast loco, but these are rolling stock, not locos, and pregrouping as well, so they need to be very light and free rolling to match with very small locos. And the rolling test shows that the lack of die cast paid off, with how far they went. I'd guess that less than 5% of the models you review do as well. And the intricately lined livery, compared to the plainer liveries of the other coaches, is worth at least a few bucks. I don't disagree that the RRP is madness, but I think the price you got was a bit of a bargain rather than right on the money. I think 60 pounds or $75 is about as high as they could go without being a ripoff, so that should be the RRP, and that 50 is about where they ought to be at the retailers. Comparing to your other reviews (which I have watched all or very nearly all of, despite being a broke college student who can't afford to pursue this hobby seriously yet), that seems to me like the amount of value worth of models I would exchange for these coaches. The way I see it, a decent tank engine seems to run at 100-150 pounds, and if I already had a decent tank engine and some decent coaches, I'd value 2 of these coaches about the same as I'd value another decent tank engine. Though, right now, if anyone offered to buy me $100-$150 worth of model, it'd have to be either an 0-4-0 Peckett or that other good 0-4-0 saddle tank you reviewed a while back, because the highest quality locomotives I have right now are my Bachman Thomas locos from when I was a kid, and with the crappy rolling stock I have, shunting with them just isn't that much fun. I'd probably actually break out my models more than twice a year if I had a Peckett, and I might bother making that shunting diorama I started planning too, instead of just using that snap together trainset track when the urge to play with model trains gets too strong.

I only have one birdcage brake end, only having one of them.

Mark ups at least 30% from factory to retailer then 30 to 40% at dealers/ retailers

two three coach sets which gives the keen modeller the opportunity to have that longer train or two short but similar trains. However value for money is rather dubious as Hornby offer so many Maunsell coaches that can be formed into so many sets as well as nearly 50 Pullman coaches with lights do we need Bachmann's contribution?

Really do t understand why the pickups were fitted, without lighting circuits! Doh!

why do they have pickups if there's no lights? did i miss something

I do wonder what it is about Bachmann (Kader) that means the feel the need to charge what they do. They (the group) do own their own factories and employ a lot of people across Europe so their overheads are high. However as a competitive strategy it’s highly questionable. That being said; have you noticed that some prices on previously announced Bachmann models (00 and N) have been REDUCED as per the last winter announcement? Is the tide turning?

Been saying for a while, that both Hornby and Bachman need to step up their game... a lot!! So many 10 year old toolings offered for more than Dapol and Accurascale are charging for modern high detailed rolling stock and locomotives. But when even their recent tooling offers are lower quality and higher prices, they're just going to alienate their customers.

Short answer, no. Long answer, these being sold for triple their value imo for what ya get is insane. Absolutely agree with you, it feels more like just paying for the name more than anything else.

In full size, the “birdcage” looks a bit like the aviary buildings that used to be in most Victorian parks.

Speaking very good common sense Sam, Bachmann need to change and improve.