Saxophone Voicing (SECRET to Playing Altissimo?)

Рет қаралды 18,769

3 жыл бұрын

Many teachers use the concept of "voicing" to help students become familiar with the sensation associated with playing in the high register. There is even a scientific study that seems to have proven the existence of voicing, mathematically.
Lenny Pickett, one of the masters of the upper register, has a slightly different take on voicing, and it is a very interesting point to consider.
In this video, we look at some exercises to begin gaining awareness of this process, and also a practical strategy for learning, and ultimately, applying voicing, so we can play with ease in the altissimo register.
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Пікірлер: 62

@markwhite-what-da-jazz 10 ай бұрын

One hint I can make about playing altissimo is to make sure your bottom lip is not too close to the tip of the mouthpiece. Place your bottom lip where the reed starts to break away from the mouthpiece. You want the reed to vibrate as freely as possible when playing altissimo. If you place your bottom lip at the correct place, you should be able to play octaves without changing your embouchure between low and high notes. When you develop your embouchure, you will be able to jump octaves up and down very quickly without changing your embouchure. When you can do this, then you are ready to start working on the overtones. Marc does a great job at demonstrating how to play overtones.

@itisnottaken4444 Жыл бұрын

7:21 this is straight out of the Senta book and what I use when explaining voicing. So glad you started there!

@bobgreen1236 3 жыл бұрын

I played trumpet for 20 years before I picked up the sax. I was made familiar with the teachings of Claude Gordon by my college trumpet teacher, and caught a masterclass by Claude himself at a New York Brass Conference back in the 80's. For some odd reason it NEVER occured to me to try to adapt Claude's philosophies to the playing of the sax, until I came across your method. I appreciate the insight you have provided!

@jazldazl9193 Жыл бұрын

Would you mind sharing salient points please?

@IanRatcliffe3011 2 жыл бұрын

You just got a new subscriber. Good to compare this with how Brass trumpet players achieve notes by not changing fingers. Keep blowing man!

@GetYourSaxTogether 2 ай бұрын

Respect for tackling the topic! 👊🏻 Huh!! And you shouted me out at the end. Thanks! 🙏🏻

@Marcimusic257 2 ай бұрын

Thank you for the recognition!

@jardov1234 2 жыл бұрын

This is a great explanation and something I wish I'd known when I started the sax

@tiansaxo 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for your new ideas on that topic!

@jazldazl9193 Жыл бұрын

Excellent tutorial thanks.

@rustOfunk Жыл бұрын

Great video. Thanks for posting it!

@user-xc6wd3hb4s 4 ай бұрын

Very interesting video and this is something that I have thought about. Thanks.

@wilhelmbeck8498 5 ай бұрын

Just experiment until you can play one or two octaves extra - in tune and with the simplest fingerings possible Then use the added range in all daily scale/arpeggio exercises. Use a tuner all the time and stay away from soft reeds and mouthpieces with small openings - after a while most players discover even higher notes and better fingerings

@Marcimusic257 5 ай бұрын

I've actually found that soft reeds and small tip openings can still produce quite a bit of extended range, albeit with less volume than a soft reed/large tip or hard reed/small tip combo.

@Luboo-ne4ri 8 күн бұрын

I cant thank you enough for creating this video. Ive been searching for a kinda scientific, in depth taclke on why exactly our vocal caveties are important. You explained a lot, gave a variety of examples, and more. I had a question, if you dont mind though. Do you think the structure of someones vocal cavety matters?

@Marcimusic257 7 күн бұрын

That's a great question. I suspect the answer is probably yes, but only to the extent that it affects what subtle adjustments they have to make in order to get the top tones to speak. I had an extremely difficult time learning how to play the saxophone, and even after years of very serious study, I couldn't consistently play the palm keys, let alone anything beyond that. Me and my teachers began to think it had something with my asymmetric jaws. I eventually found that if I moved my lower jaw to the left, to change the shape of the oral cavity and mimic someone with more symmetric anatomy, I started seeing success with the overtone studies, and in a relatively short period of time I was able to play more than four octaves. About a week ago I had both of my jaws surgically repositioned, and I'm very excited to get back to the saxophone in a few months to see what it will be like to play again with a modified oral cavity.

@Sirvalorsax 3 жыл бұрын

I'd love to get information on the Australian research that was done if you have it

@Marcimusic257 3 жыл бұрын

newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/SaxTract.html Love your channel, by the way!

@leontius5502 2 жыл бұрын

My right ear loves this video 😍😍 other than that, this was an awesome video!

@Marcimusic257 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks! I was still learning how to use audio equipment then, but now both of your ears can enjoy the content on this channel!

@raseshgandhi6702 3 жыл бұрын

Very lovely

@Marcimusic257 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@wyndhl8309 Жыл бұрын

"It wouldn't happen overnight... " 💯 % Tutorial 💯 + % James Carter, an altissimo master, tends to rely more upon the ears, the throat, and the tongue rather than solely upon fingerings, for the most part. Whistle an altissimo fragment and/or passage, James Carter will play it instantly and accurately on demand. How does he manage that, I wonder? Thanks, champion 🏆

@Marcimusic257 Жыл бұрын

No doubt, the fingerings are the least important aspect in all of this. James Carter is amazing. And as to how he can do it so reliably, he's figured out how to, "simple" as that. Anyone can reach reach a level of control with the altissimo where it's a useable part of their range, but it takes patience and persistence.

@wyndhl8309 Жыл бұрын

@@Marcimusic257 Thanks, 🏆

@curtisvalle5141 3 жыл бұрын

way cool....

@AdventureAndySnM Жыл бұрын

Yeah man

@aquafine.2250 2 жыл бұрын

This video is honestly a gem. i also tried downloading the ebooks, but there's an issue where i can't click on anything once i open the links in the description. is there a way to fix that?

@Marcimusic257 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you! Those links are temporarily down, but send me an email and I can get you a copy.

@MatClasenSax 3 жыл бұрын

Hi, can you tell me more about the research group you mentioned? Who are they? Is their research documented somewhere? I would be very interested in their studies. I am struggeling with the idea, that vocal cords act like strings, meanig vibrate an influence the air stream by doing so. They are more like lips that produce a frequency by rapidly opening and closing, not by vibrating, according to the research of cvt (complete vocal technique), a group of professional singers, who observed and catalogued very precisely the functions of the vocal tract. When the vocal cords are not producing sound, they rest. The research of cvt contradicts what for instance Dave Liebman states in his book "Develope your personal Saxophone sound". The idea of voicing may be helpful for imagining an sound/pitch before playing it, but I think it has nothing to do with what the voice and the vocal cords really do when we are playing the saxophone in what ever register. Which in my humble opinion is staying out of the way of the air flow.

@Marcimusic257 3 жыл бұрын

Yes, here is the group's page about the experiment; newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/SaxTract.html That's a good point, "voicing:" may be a misnomer for whatever is happening anatomically. In any case, efficient use of the air stream really is the key factor.

@MatClasenSax 3 жыл бұрын

@@Marcimusic257 Wow, that looks very interesting, thanks for the link! I may find some answers there. All the best, Mat

@siggen000 Жыл бұрын

Where can I get this book?

@Marcimusic257 Жыл бұрын

The one that I wrote will be available again shortly, I'll keep you posted.

@diegoarmijo1426 Жыл бұрын

Your links direct users to a "Create Funnels " link and don't allow me to access the content unless I click on the link, which I have no use for. Bummer!

@Marcimusic257 Жыл бұрын

The links are temporarily down, but send me an email and I can get you a copy of the free e-book.

@alexbouffler8577 3 жыл бұрын

I have a major problem with this on the saxophone and clarinet, as I've been playing by biting on the clarinet for a very long time now. Having recently been practicing with a more relaxed embouchure has improved my tone on the saxophone but I can barely play any high notes. I recently found out that when I play just the mouthpiece I am about a fourth lower than the tone that should be produced but I'm starting to think I might need to go to the doctors to get my vocal tract fixed lol.

@Marcimusic257 3 жыл бұрын

The flatness on the mouthpiece pitch sounds like it could be a case of overcompensating, in the direction of getting a more relaxed embouchure, possibly with the tongue being in the wrong position. Have you tried moving the tongue position to see how it affects pitch? It could also be a case of not enough air. Maybe try blowing a little stronger, possibly coupled with a slightly harder reed to offer some resistance against the more powerful air stream. Just try to get the pitch a little higher each day, and I'm sure you can bring it up to the expected note. For a long time, I thought there was something physically wrong with me, and that I would never be able to play the palm keys, let alone anything beyond them. It turned out that most of my problems were coming from a lack of wind power (i.e. not supplying a free-flowing air stream). Check out the video " How to Blow into a Saxophone" if you haven't already, it contains some information that really helped me to put the focus on the air, so that the embouchure could be as relaxed and flexible as possible. Most importantly keep trying, you'll get it!

@WalkOverHotCoal 3 жыл бұрын

I must have had at least 20 videos on altissimo. But I am none the wiser. I am still stuck on a wobbly altissimo A. I think, on theory, you have got it right because I discovered that if I expected a particular note, but hit the wrong key, the note won't came out. I think a player through much practice, has subconsciously adjust to the note without think about it. I have recently relearning the clarinet again. To my surprise, I could do altissimo on a clarinet without much efforts, and did it purely on varying air pressure. Perhaps it is because the clarinet requires more intense air pressure on a smaller opening as opposed to a sax.

@Marcimusic257 3 жыл бұрын

I think the altissimo on clarinet may speak easier due to the instrument's natural overtone series as well. What mouthpiece are you playing on sax, with what reed?

@WalkOverHotCoal 3 жыл бұрын

@@Marcimusic257 Thank you for the reply. I play a tenor mostly, a Yamaha YTS62. I still have the original standard 4C mouth piece which I believe is a "student" version. I use a 2,5 reed. What really bothers me is I found it is much easier to get the altissimo if I get the note before it. So I suspect it must have much to do with all of the factors you mentioned. Because it is easier to play the lower altissimo note, I must have gotten everything right on the lower note before I hit the higher one, hence the next one up was achievable. Also, I found I could play altissimo quite easily on a soprano. But the one I have has a built-in G# key.

@Marcimusic257 3 жыл бұрын

@@WalkOverHotCoal The 4C is good basic mouthpiece. Anything by Yamaha is great quality. You could try a harder reed with a small tip opening mouthpiece like that, it might offer some more tonal stability. Definitely, it's easier to reach a high note moving up from underneath it. I think this is because you already have the air moving, whereas when we try to start a high note by itself, there is a tendency to restrict the air stream. This seems largely psychological to me, because we tend to associate playing in the upper register with some fear and uncertainty. Just keep at it, you'll get it soon enough!

@WalkOverHotCoal 3 жыл бұрын

@@Marcimusic257 Thank you very much for the advice. Much appreciated. I did consider a 3.5 reed, but had chickened out for fearing it would be too hard to blow. Perhaps I should bite the bullet and did that.

@Marcimusic257 3 жыл бұрын

@@WalkOverHotCoal Give it a try with a 3 using the same brand of reeds you have now. You may be surprised. Vandoren sells reed sampler packs, so you can try a new strength before buying a full box. www.amazon.com/Vandoren-SAXMIXT3-Tenor-Saxophone-Card/dp/B01CU0ZF6Q/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=vandoren+tenor+sax+reed+mix&qid=1615815994&s=musical-instruments&sr=1-2 www.amazon.com/Vandoren-SRMIXT3-Tenor-Jazz-Strength/dp/B00DDXJNR2/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=vandoren+tenor+sax+reed+mix&qid=1615816048&s=musical-instruments&sr=1-1 Check out the video on reeds if you haven't already. Don't worry if you're not paying on a high number reed. It just has to be hard enough for your purposes. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gtVmdKmEs9ndfqM.html

@radiorobasoar Жыл бұрын

The Tao that is spoken is not the Tao 🎶🎵🎶👯‍♀️👯‍♀️👯‍♀️

@AndSendMe 2 жыл бұрын

Yet another entry in the tradition of handing over a general idea and set of exercises and leave out the specifics. But Mark Watkins' book has been out since 2018, so saxophone pedagogy has no excuse for continuing this "sink or swim" approach to pedagogy.

@Marcimusic257 2 жыл бұрын

Can you elaborate further?

@AndSendMe 2 жыл бұрын

@@Marcimusic257 This is a conundrum. When I first came upon your video I was super-impressed by the fact that you talked about voicing in detail and referenced recent research. Compared to a lot of other teachers that is like night and day. But in the end, when you talk about doing the exercises, the student is left completely in the dark about what to do concretely with their vocal tract. True, you contextualized this early in the video, you basically explained why you chose to do this. But I think it leaves students flailing needlessly and that slows progress. I referenced Mark Watkins' book (From the Inside Out) because in it he details research that shows how all these things are done. Whatever excuse there has ever been for leaving students in the dark about these things in the past (which is what I mean by "sink or swim"), I think it is gone now, and I think pedagogy needs to catch up. I know that's not easy. So maybe I was unnecessarily negative given all that is good about your video. I am an impatient fellow, I confess.

@Marcimusic257 2 жыл бұрын

@@AndSendMe Mark Watkins has some very interesting material. But even knowing exactly what the mechanics involved are, I'm not sure that's enough to get the feel for these techniques. Intellectually it may make sense, and may help things to click for some people. Although it seems to me that by regularly performing certain exercises, the student learns how to use their vocal tract and oral cavity in ways that can't be explained so easily. And that's a good point, there is a certain amount of "sink or swim" involved, but I think that's part of the learning process. What held me back for a while in this area was a lack of consistency in practicing the appropriate exercises, more so than an incomplete intellectual understanding of the physiological processes. But who knows, for some players that may be exactly what they need. Thank you for your input, I'll continue checking out more of Mark Watkins' work.

@AndSendMe 2 жыл бұрын

@@Marcimusic257 The trick with the Watkins book is to skip to the end of each chapter and look for the occasional summary and the exercises. Then you can start to look for areas of particular interest in the illustrations. I found trying to read it front to back to be quite daunting, he has left nothing out, including all the traditional pedagogy that has turned out to be wrong, so it is a massive info dump that feels rather disorganized at first. Now that we know what is actually happening, we can begin to create exercises that focus on the exact area and movement. For instance, knowing that the vocal folds are involved in altissimo we can add something to Lenny Pickett's focus on air support. Knowing the general shape and movement of the tongue during pitch-bending we can try it first with our mouth open, looking at what we are doing, then try to bring that to our exercises on the horn.

@DC-zq3jf Ай бұрын

Production needs work - only have sound coming out of right side of headphone...

@Marcimusic257 Ай бұрын

Probably yes, this was one of the first videos I did, before I learned how to split the audio.

@ronaldpalmore570 10 ай бұрын

No secret, just buy a beechler. Half way there.

@Marcimusic257 10 ай бұрын

Ha, good one! No mouthpiece will magically grant a controlled high register.

@ronaldpalmore570 10 ай бұрын

@@Marcimusic257 I said halfway.

@Marcimusic257 10 ай бұрын

@@ronaldpalmore570 Maybe if you already have a good grasp of the overtones series. Otherwise I'd say 1% there.

@ronaldpalmore570 10 ай бұрын

@@Marcimusic257 c'mon man, at least gimme 2.

@Marcimusic257 10 ай бұрын

@@ronaldpalmore570 I'll make it 5!

@eungjoolee7032 9 ай бұрын

Do you know you have left facial nerve palsy? If you don't, go to a hospital and check it out.

@Marcimusic257 9 ай бұрын

Thank you for your concern, but that isn't facial nerve palsy, it is a skeletal asymmetry. I stopped making videos because I've been preparing to have that corrected through double jaw surgery. I was on track to complete that procedure at the end of the year, but over the summer I learned that I had a very large vestibular schwannoma, which was just removed 9 days ago. A left facial nerve palsy was actually a real risk with that procedure, but fortunately, my surgeons were some of the best in the world, and they were able to preserve all my functions. So in a few months I'll be able to continue the correction of my jaws, and eventually get back to playing the saxophone!