Scarborough Subway saga: Will it ever open?

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Scarborough Subway saga: Will it ever open?

Рет қаралды 10,577

Күн бұрын

One of life’s greatest mysteries…when will the Scarborough Subway finally be built? 🤔
The Green Line video innovation fellow James Westman chatted with Scarborough commuters to find out how much they trust Metrolinx to finish construction on time, especially since the Eglinton Crosstown LRT still hasn’t been finished.
The overall consensus? Our grandkids might be around to witness the subway’s grand opening.
When do you think the Scarborough Subway will be completed? Give us your guesses in the comments below. 👇
✍️: James Westman
🎥: Jacob Krone
📝: Anita Li

Пікірлер: 84

@HipsterShiningArmor 5 ай бұрын

to the best of my knowledge they only put shovels in the ground in 2021, so it wouldn't be realistic to expect construction to be completed in 3 years. the real question is why did it take them so long to start boring in the first place

@mayormatt2612 4 ай бұрын

a ton of plan changes. Once the mayors of Toronto changed, so did the plans. One suggested an LRT, another one a streetcar. One mayor opposed a streetcar and wanted a subway, then the number of stops were reduced and here we are.

@hategoogle-xp1yf 4 ай бұрын

IIRC, I'm pretty sure one other councilor attempted to delay the project in order to go back to the LRT plan, and the city council side couldn't necessarily agree how many stations they needed due to the SmartTrack proposal and what to axe to reduce costs. This debate was especially stupid given that it would be mostly funded by provincial and federal funds.

@mikei5526 2 ай бұрын

Around year 2035. And that's being generous. Maybe 2040

@youbetcha6880 2 ай бұрын

Scarborough could have an LRT system covering much of its area. Instead, it's getting a three-stop subway extension. Congrats, Scarborough, for getting something underground.

@BLACKSTA361 2 ай бұрын

Youre absolutely right. Whoever planned this didnt think this through

@AmarLad9 2 ай бұрын

A complete transit network was planned and fully funded for Scarborough before Rob Ford got elected Mayor and scrapped the entire “Transit City” plan because he wanted to deliver “subways subways subways” rather than trams (uneducated interpretation of LRTs). Add in NIMBYs who wanted everything underground and more politicking... Of course that’s 10x the cost, years and years of delays, and redesigned plans delivering less transit than we would have had fully constructed by now… so basically blame people who keep voting for politicians who rip up plans and don’t want to listen to experts and then complain we are in this mess.

@UzumakiNaruto_ 4 ай бұрын

I've always wondered why can't the province create a crown construction company who's sole purpose is to build major public projects such as transit, roads, affordable housing etc in the province instead of having private companies do it? Is it not possible to have architects and engineers design the project and then hand it off to this crown construction company and then have them start building it right away with constant inspections to make sure things were being built as planned and that any mistakes could be detected early and corrected? Seems like it would be a better alternative than wasting time having private companies bid on the project promising overly optimistic costs and then blowing way past their budget as well as the timeline for a project to be completed like they're constantly doing now.

@thegreenlineto 4 ай бұрын

This is an intriguing solution to a systemic problem - thanks! We'll look into this.

@Khymeira 3 ай бұрын

Could you imagine?? This would be incredible. Count on Naruto to come up with based infrastructural solutions to this mess.

@andrewthaboss6643 3 ай бұрын

The sheer amount of expert knowledge you'd need that is willing to travel across the prov. Makes your suggestion nearly impossible. Metrolinx was meant to bridge the gap, at least for public transit project, where they handle the planning, budgeting, and procurment. France has probably the most integrated rail network built on the lowest costs, doesn't do this. The reason you actually should want private public partnerships is because they do have the needed skills that they'll bring from abroad, share risk, and often times the builders chosen includes our various pension funds. Imo, private partnership is fine. What needs to happen is continous expansion of the network. Doing so will actually reduce cost, incresse local expert knowledge, which in turn speeds up such large projects. A city the size of toronto cannot stop construction of rappid transit for 20 years.

@Vortexone112 2 ай бұрын

The ttc WAS its own general contractor up until the mid 2000s where conservatives pushed for private contractors instead.

@franklobe 4 ай бұрын

The TTC has been shitting on people in Scarborough my entire life. The Toronto Transit Commission has three subway stations in Vaughan, a city other than Toronto, but the subway only goes to Kennedy in Scarborough. The Scarborough border is only a couple of blocks west at Victoria Park. The TTC provides better service to Mississauga than it does to eastern Scarborough. It is what it is. I gave up a long time ago. I'll be dead or out of the country by the time that this minor subway extension is built. They can build the Sheppard line, but they can't connect Eglington with Ellesmere or extend Kennedy out to Port Union. Pathetic.

@TheSkcube 4 ай бұрын

The Vaughan subway extension was only done because of provincial funding. Vaughan wants to develop the area surrounding the station into a new downtown district. This benefits real estate developers, which benefit the premier, as to put it lightly its a major power base for him and his party. The TTC was forced to use to the RT trains instead of the street car, so Scarborough has historically been the dumping ground that results in poor transit.

@KardiFan2000 4 ай бұрын

I used to live in the Port Union area...VERY low density out there to even justify subway construction. The Eglinton East LRT could be extended out there, but definitely not a subway.

@CaradhrasAiguo49 2 ай бұрын

@@TheSkcubehow was the Vaughan extension built with Ford's benefit in mind? it opened in Dec 2017, before Ford even ran for PC leadership

@Vortexone112 2 ай бұрын

Your own councilors and MP/MPPs have been shitting on you. The TTC just does what it can with its limited budget. Not sure why Scarborough kept voting for for anti-transit representatives and then asks why it doesn’t get transit.

@bryan89wr 2 ай бұрын

Any delays with this subway extension really wouldn't have been that bad if the TTC didn't neglect basic maintenance for the RT in the first place and decommissioned it once the new extension was completed.

@ARBUZIK.dudkin 4 ай бұрын

So you are actually saying it will take 7 years to build 3 stations?! China can build 3 entire lines in that time

@gelatin3613 2 ай бұрын

canada is different bro

@gelatin3613 2 ай бұрын

plus it takes time to even build 3 stations

@MetaView7 Ай бұрын

During the same time span, China has built 40,000 km of high-speed rail.

@pauljmorton 5 ай бұрын

Up until halfway through the third interviewee, I thought they were talking about a Subway restaurant.

@thegreenlineto 5 ай бұрын

😆🤣

@MrUkillme 4 ай бұрын

You're not alone haha

@effeo9962 2 ай бұрын

Great to include the TTC Rider member. He is very knowledgeable and clearly passionate.

@bored1ca 5 ай бұрын

The CEO of Metrolinx should have been fired after the Eglinton fiasco

@dunsdonjone1537 4 ай бұрын

what fiasco? what happened?

@thegreenlineto 4 ай бұрын

@@dunsdonjone1537 Watch the video to find out :)

@blurtam188 3 ай бұрын

Arrested for fraud!

@brianmanning4791 3 ай бұрын

He should criminally investigated several ways from Sunday.

@Rick-C-117 2 ай бұрын

What do you mean “after” the Eglinton scandal? The scandal is still ongoing!

@IainHendry 4 ай бұрын

TTCRiders should be asking why the rt was "at the end of it's useful service life" and Toronto threw it in the trash, rather than maintain it and keep it going (like any other rapid transit line). Line 1 and Line 2 aren't being thrown away even though they're old, are they?

@TheRandCrews 5 ай бұрын

City Council didn’t even bother trying to save the SRT and now the options are problematic: - Unknown timelines - Not just following the former Right-Of-Way for easier acquisition - Deep tunnel boring - 3 Stop Re-extension than actually any plans formerly to go to Malvern or even UTSC

@thegreenlineto 5 ай бұрын

Do you have any suggestions for how City Council should move forward on this now? Any solutions or stopgaps?

@my2iu 5 ай бұрын

The province is entirely responsible for the Scarborough subway and SRT replacement. City Council is responsible for none of those things. I’m not sure why you are acting like a NIMBY against Metrolinx /s

@Itsmytest 4 ай бұрын

Scarborough has always been left behind. The RT was a sales experiment that was supposed to last as long as the trains at Expo 67 did. Instead, the TTC was forced to keep it, and instead of the City making reasonable investments (the province paid for the retrofit and a few years of subsidized operation - the experiment trial period - and then left the rest to Metro), they abandoned it. Then they acted shocked and surprised that: 1) an accident occurred, and 2) they'd actually need money to convert the Eglinton-Ellesmere stretch into a right-of-way for buses. (As if it were just magically going to show up somewhere). Sadly, the best constructors of transit in the city is the TTC. The P3 consortium building the Crosstown had collectively no experience, and is letting SNC run the show - and that should explain in large part why Crosstown is such a shit-show. At least in this consortium, it's just Aecon, so it should be considerably faster. The only way to fix this is to remove politicians from the Commission and from Metrolinx's board, and let the TTC be the actual constructors, since they're the only group in Canada who can reliably build subways in Toronto.

@Kishanth.J 2 ай бұрын

⁠@@my2iutechnically speaking it is the province fault for the RT. The original plan for the system was to use streetcars like the ones used downtown. The province made the city use their experimental system.

@my2iu 2 ай бұрын

@@Kishanth.J I know. The original poster has called me a NIMBY in the past for complaining about how cruel and miserable the LRT construction was and how I blamed Metrolinx and the province. I was pointing out that the original poster thought he was complaining about progressives on Council, but in actuality, he too was complaining about Metrolinx and the province, so I was mocking him for being a NIMBY too.

@user-qt5cm1qf3m 2 ай бұрын

Same feelings with the completion of the 2nd Avenue subway in NYC.

@PWingert1966 3 ай бұрын

It will open long before the provincial government considers funding the construction of an Eglington East LRT in the social housing ghetto of Scarborough (At least according to Doug Ford)

@trainglen22 2 ай бұрын

Scarborough is so screwed!

@charlesgregory9763 2 ай бұрын

Put a Subway sandwich shop at the bus stop, you'll save billions. And they'll never know the difference. It's psychological 😅

@kevinn1158 4 ай бұрын

In 1981 I was wondering why the TTC hadn't built a line from Kipling to Sq 1. And why haven't they built a subway close the the lake along out to browns line..... I'm a VET waiting for the TTC and councillors to wake up.... LOL

@skeetssaer2018 2 ай бұрын

The issue for Scarborough is that it is seen as an Immigrant rich part of Toronto (What isn't) so just like the hospitals the funding is never enough.

@trainglen22 2 ай бұрын

Better question is why hasn't the TTC start building the subway in the early 2010's?

@peterjeffery8495 2 ай бұрын

Go Sanova Yourself. Remember the last line of the movie Chinatown with Jack Nicholson "(Who cares) This is Chinatown Jake". Same here. Such disrespect by TORONTO City Council. "Its Scarborough, don't sweat it".

@DavidL-ii7yn 2 ай бұрын

Scarborough subway was originally proposed in the 1980s. Toronto will always screw over Scarborough.

@KyrilPG 4 ай бұрын

They should just ask the French for project management. Or closer, ask CDPQ for guidance on how to manage and deliver a project reasonably on budget and time...

@dariogonzalez553 4 ай бұрын

This one is on City Council... i don't see why you didn't mention any councilor in particular, since they are the ones responsible.

@Torontoman623 4 ай бұрын

Typical Metrolinx

@markvogel5872 3 ай бұрын

Why does Toronto not do what Montreal did with their REM?

@Balasidine957 4 ай бұрын

It will open by 2034. By the time that happens, living in a major city like Toronto would be something that you would never do anymore. The future is grim, plain and simple.

@alankingchiu 4 ай бұрын

Aside from line 5, everything else seem to be progressing to schedule.

@user-wv9bo6nm8k 2 ай бұрын

It is a shame that the Scarborough city representation in thr city hall sucks big time. These guys have no vision and no loyalty to their constituents. These city councillors are there for Perks and money only.

@zigzag00 4 ай бұрын

It's projected to open around 2029-2031, let's hope it doesn't get delayed 🙏

@johnlaw6735 2 ай бұрын

After i die it may open....that's what i'm reading

@pbwmanagement 4 ай бұрын

For major infrastructure projects, you'd better get Bechtel on board, ends up cheaper in the long run.

@blackpanda7298 4 ай бұрын

Scarborough is the neglected stepchild of Toronto 😢. This is an absolute disgrace.

@jeffmacd1972 5 ай бұрын

If Scarborough didn't vote en masse for Rob Ford in 2010, there would be proper transit there now. They chose to believe Ford's obvious lies, voted for him and are now in a mess because of it. Nobody to blame but themselves.

@bored1ca 5 ай бұрын

they voted for Ford because most of city council are focused on the downtown core and treat Scarborough like it's a leper colony.

@jeffmacd1972 5 ай бұрын

@@bored1ca Willingly tossing aside a fully paid for and shovel ready transit plan doesn't sound like "being treated like a leper colony" to me.

@bored1ca 5 ай бұрын

@@jeffmacd1972 well Olivia Chow hasn't been back to Scarborough since she was elected mayor despite campaigning heavily out there.

@jeffmacd1972 5 ай бұрын

@@bored1ca The one you should be mad at is John Tory for his 9 years of stalling and inaction, and Rob Ford for lying to the people of Scarborough.

@kiroolioneaver8532 4 ай бұрын

Yeah cause that fully funded Eglinton Crosstown is up and running lol. The problem wasn't Ford, the problem was the proposition being giving to Scarborough residents. If the proposition was a 30-stop LRT network (the SRT replacement AND the Eglinton East LRT being build CONCURRENTLY) versus a three-stop subway for the same amount of money the answer is obvious; you build the 30-stop network. But if it's a seven stop LRT versus a three-stop subway, the answer there is also obvious; a three-stop subway lol

@AV-de6hy 4 ай бұрын

Start from the top...who you elected started all this.....

@Jaycee604 3 ай бұрын

2035-2040

@yukaira 4 ай бұрын

STOP PUTTING LRT IN TUNNELS. BUILD HEAVY RAIL. source: ottawa

@BLACKSTA361 4 ай бұрын

LRT even in tunnels can be a success if done right. Source : German Cities (Köln, Frankfurt, Düsseldorf etc) Canada just doesn't know how to build them

@Arxsas 4 ай бұрын

@@BLACKSTA361 Canada (at one point) did know how to build LRT with tunnels, and were inspired by some of the cities you mentioned. Source: Calgary and Edmonton, and Calgary more specifically, has the busiest LRT system in English-speaking North America.

@TMBpk 4 ай бұрын

Toronto is too big for LRT’s….once Crosstown is up and running it’ll be over capacity within a few years. It was a mistake to run LRT’s on Eglinton it should have been a proper heavy rail subway like Ontario Line or Lines 1,2 and 3.

@yukaira 4 ай бұрын

@@TMBpk I completely agree, but prices to build transit in north America are frankly ridiculous. Paris can build a tramway for the price of a busway while we're stuck paying billions to build mediocre transit.

@Arxsas 4 ай бұрын

@@TMBpk I wouldn't be so quick to say so, LRT is a very vague term, covering a wide array of rolling stock types and service patterns. The main problem driving capacity issues with the Crosstown is the fact that the LRT rolling stock is low-floor, along with the bottleneck of the surface-running section. Having low floors forces an awkward seating layout, as there needs to be space for the bogies inside the train cars, leading to lower capacity. There are plenty of examples of systems in North America, and across the world more broadly, that uses high-floor LRT and operates similarly to a heavy rail system. Funny that you mention the Ontario Line, as that is also considered to be light rail, though automated light metro would be a more accurate description of the service. Semantics aside, you are right that this is the wrong system for the job, and there have been some questionable compromises made that undermine the efficacy of this project. Though, the GO RER project (or whatever they call it now) should hopefully help with some of the capacity issues, as it will be a much more attractive option for regional trips when compared to the slow, local service provided by the Crosstown.