agreed

Zhang zi yi too let’s not forget !!

They are all brilliant and beautiful actresses.

@@adrianavargova ah yes, the all lives matters argument.

@@speedofpee No. I consider all 3 actresses talented, not one especially. And you don't know who you are talking to. So you just literally applied your own prejudice on me.

Pumpkin was a failure of a geisha tbh

@@Angelaaa1015 Thanks to Hatsumomo!

All of Hatsumomos focus was either on her own suffering, or on Chiyo/Sayuri. And all of her attention was focused on her jealousy toward Sayuri, she completely failed to train Pumpkin properly, and allowed her to fall through the cracks without a glance back. Heck, the first time Sayuri does her fan dance, Hatsumomo had a chance to present Pumpkin, but instead took Pumpkins fans and did some fan tricks herself. Memeha chose to present Sayuri every chance she got, while Hatsumomo chose to cast a huge shadow over Pumkin.

@@ssd3904 That's true. The point is Hatsumomo was using Pumpkin as her puppet to get the okiya for herself and then planning to get rid of Pumpkin, Miss Nitta, Auntie, and Sayuri out onto street for good. The fact is Hatsumomo never cared about Pumpkin. It was all about her from the get-go. She knew Miss Nitta never plan to adopt her nor inherited the okiya, been plotting and scheming to using Pumpkin as her meal ticket way before Chiyo came to that geisha house.

@@ssd3904 Yeah if you watch when Pumpkin is going out for her debut, Hatsumomo is adorned in all her finery, which would detract attention away from Pumpkin onto her. When Sayuri does her debut, Memeha dresses in a subdued, single coloured kimono with little make up or jewelry, so the spotlight is all on her student.

@Raisin Sauce TV Yep! However, the sad and worst part is Pumpkin got dragged into this as innocent victim and got her hopes and dreams to be adopted been destroyed because of Hatsumomo. Also, Mrs. Nitta basically gloating and rubbing it in with overjoy at Hatsumomo by called her a loser.

@Raisin Sauce TV Plus, I do believe Mrs. Nitta do wanted to adopt Pumpkin, so she can get rid of Hatsumomo as well. But after she sees and realize Hatsumomo been using Pumpkin as her puppet to get the okiya, Chiyo working hard and become a rightful geisha to herited oykia. All bet where off. Mrs. Nitta changed her mind and made her decision surprisely out of the blue just like that.

Seriously, who likes Hatsumomo? She's beautiful of course but she's far too narcisstic to stay a good Geisha for longer than one evening

​​@@sherell273 yes, you're right and even Auntie admitted Mother supports Hatsumomo because of the money she gains for the okiya. But I think that without the war, Chiyo will ask to Pumpkin to stay in the okiya, probably like Mother did with Auntie

@@a.g.demada5263 Of course Chiyo would definitely ask and wanted Pumpkin to stay in the okiya, if there wasn't a World War. It was never Chiyo's fault that Mother choose her as the rightful successor of the okiya. All Chiyo has done exactly what she was supposed to do to become a successful geisha by listen and learn.

Memoria.of a geisha was a Bad movie i don't know why 🤔

Elaborate, my man

​@@reyositosyou likely found its theme revolting. That doesn't mean it's a bad film.

Yes you can blame her. She was a bitch long before sayuri was a threat to her. She was always herself.

Blah blah blah, knowing full well her suffering, she chose to inflict it on an innocent girl, costing her forever her relationship with her sister. For what, so she could fuck around? She walked away after burning down the house, she could have done so earlier if she wanted. If her man was so "worth" it, they could have eloped. Of course, all he was using her for was the sex, and she chose a useless bum over career opportunities to achieve independence like Mameha did.

Yes, but this was in the book.

@Card Amom That's no excuse for Hatsumomo to treat Chiyo like shit and use Pumpkin as a puppet to get the okiya.

@@sherell273 you’ve never been a beautiful woman if you don’t know how our sex treats each other 😉

Sad also because they had practically zero rights. They were treated little better than prostitutes.

They were protecting themselves

Well not everyone this was mameha’s plan from the get go she wanted the old woman to adopt her over pumpkin. This is what she wanted from the get go.. it wasn’t about the money for mameha because remember the baron sent her himself to train the girl.

@@tamereauswadley4275I thought the Chairman was the one who persuaded Mameha to train Chiyo

​@@mechadoggyIn the book, but perhaps not in the movie.

Mameha loves the Baron you know she thinks Chiyo steal his favor

As Mameha said, she knows the Baron better than that, she knows what he’s all about , as he probably has done this to others, more than likely including her.

@@angelameyer2550 He did, in the book. Mameha wasn't upset with Sayuri. She said, "He undressed you and looked at you. Did he do anything else?" She knew full well what was going to happen when the Baron asked Sayuri to his estate - - and not Mameha. Apparently, the Baron was notorious for this kind of behavior.

blah blah blah , the story line does not care about your opinion

If you actually dove deeper into the story, you’d realize that Mameha secretly loved the Baran. And the idea of him trying to rape another woman, much less her own apprentice, is kind of a soft spot for her. Don’t be so quick to judge.

What is sad is the fact I'm sure Chiyo will ask her to stay in the okiya and probably help her to be a better geisha.

@@a.g.demada5263 Of course Chiyo would want Pumpkin to stay the okiya, help her become a better, successful geisha, adopt her as her sister and give her the okiya once Chiyo retire.

@@sherell273 or, Pumpkin will stay in the okiya as the new " auntie "

@@a.g.demada5263 Maybe.

She was basically saying: "Bish, you're just bitter because no man has taken a 'bite' out of you in years." 😂😅

She was surprised, happy, proud, and most of all, relieved. That was their goal.

I remember that in the book the Baron withdrew at the last moment at Mameha's request.

No, she did it so Dr Crab would be a witness to the fact Sayuri was still the virgin. If she let the Baron win, to the world it would look like he indeed slept with Sayuri in his mansion and now was just covering up for it. Sayuri would have no future as a geisha as a result

Yes! I’m so glad someone else recognized it! She is able to portray absolute devastation with nothing but a look. It gives me chills.

Thank you very much for your comment.

The book was written by a white American man so go figure

So much history, it is quite interesting, isnt it!

Kaori Momoi and Yuki Kudoh was briliant in this movie, but I agree. Not to discredit Zhang Zhiyi, i think Sayuri should've been played by a Japanese. I'd imagine Sonoya Mizuno or Nakama Yukie.

It always bothered me that they didn’t, at the very least, cast a Japanese actor for the lead. (The rest would’ve been better, also.)

Michelle Yeoh captures the reserved elegance, the subtle yet charming cunningness and wit of Mameha as portrayed in the novel so I cannot fault her at all on her performance. My only fault is that Mameha was described as being a 'classical' Japanese beauty, specifically in the chapter where the people of Kyoto were celebrating the Jidai Matsuri. In that chapter Mameha was specifically requested to play Lady Murasaki Shikibu, the author of the Genji Monogatori, Japan's most celebrated literary work, both author and work being the epitome of the Heian period, Japan's golden age. Sayuri / Chiyo noted how Mameha looked like an aristocratic lady of the Heian court (rounded and plump face, referencing the beauty of the full moon). Whilst Michelle Yeoh is beautiful by our modern standards (slim face with defined cheekbones) it doesn't fit with how Mameha was described as being in the novel.

I wouldn’t say hateful. More like a smart and calculating businesswoman.

I mean business are business, not feeling attached

I mean, she basically allowed abducted children to work as slaves, for geisha or not, in the estate. Hatsumomo just became a product of her environment.

@@TheIGITnBLUE Read the book, Hatsumomo was like that before she got there.

not really. with mrs. nitta we KNOW she's like that, we're prepared for it. we KNOW especially if you read the books that she doesnt see humans she sees money and profits. hatsumomo on the other hand is presented as this beautiful person that most everyone either likes or is afraid of, a lot more complex than mrs nitta

What is the problem with the movie?, if i may ask

@@marissav552 mainly my main issue was the movie alluding to Geishas selling their virginity which is not accurate. Another was the hair and makeup. I can somewhat look past the hair and makeup because Geisha’s hairstyle look too intricate to copy and I get it’s also just a movie.

@@ComaLies225 oh. Thanks for the info!

Part of the problem when the movie was released was that the main characters are played by Chinese actresses. A lot of people thought it was appropriation and inappropriate but weren't aware that Sino-japanese relations have a long history. The other problem is the story itself had inconsistencies and exaggerations regarding being a Geisha. For the most part the movie was well received when taken w a grain of salt and I think the actresses gave due respect for the roles played

@@WayToDawn72 I will say I think all the actors involved did a pretty good job, especially the main female leads. Zhiyi Zhang, Gong Li and Michelle Yeoh were already established actresses and you can pretty much see why.

Only for critics like yourself.

Dude get over it. You people are still going on about a movie from the early 2000’s

Pumpkin's actress is Japanese too

a lot of Japanese actresses did not want to take on roles in this film. actresses of other nationalities were open to taking them on

Why are y’all getting so offended? You didn’t cast this movie.

It was a good touch

That's more because Hatsumomo will use Pumpkin as a puppet for reigning the Okiya like Mother says

@@a.g.demada5263 Hatsumomo been plotting and scheming for years to use Pumpkin as a puppet to get the okiya from her.

@@sherell273 that's what I said

@@a.g.demada5263 My apologies. I realized I repeat what you said.

@@sherell273 thank you to recognized it

Someone who lied on her. This is the feeling, when people lie on you and she remained strong throughout the accusations

I appreciate Sayrui, despite her name change

I agree, her charisma is so apparent and she is portraying an absolutely interesting character here.

You realise it's trafficking what she does

Before World War II, the yen traded at roughly 3.6 to the dollar, so 15000 Y was roughly 4200 USD. Her mizuage was no Birkin, but not exactly cheap either.

@@fsutaria Oh sweet, I didn't realise it was so close. Man, the war really did a number on the yen

The movie was set in 1929. 1 yen back then traded for 45cents. So 15k yen is approximately 6800 usd. And don’t forget back then 1 yen / 45 cents can buy you a pound of bacon or a dozen eggs. If you calculate based on inflation, 6800usd in 1929 is worth 121,980 usd today (2024). That’s many birkins many times over.

In 1935 (estimate) it was sold for 15,000 yen. Accommodating for inflation that equals 20,200,000 yen today. But back then it equaled to $210,154.74. Back then it was a significant ammount

@@linachanmangalover Damn you won there.

@@linachanmangalover Thanks for clarifying😃

@@linachanmangalover thank you!! This was killing me

@@linachanmangalover But did they really sell their virginity? I think someone said that is not accurate

Eh...

At that point in the movie, yes. But later on... DAMN!

thanks for including intelligence and talent, most people wouldnt. it's still visuals trumph all

What a lovely and enlightened culture. Physical beauty trumps all, got it!

My buddy my pal, Korean feminists have started an entire movement where they refuse to date, fuck, marry or have babies with men until men start treating them like human beings so I’m gonna guess that those feminists are totally fine with Americans calling this behaviour what it is. My only issue with these comments is that these Americans are forgetting that a) Western society treated women just the same back then and b) American conservative Christian communities still treat women like this.

Have fun

Because that was her danna and she loved him. She thought she knew him best and didn't want to think he was capable of that. Even when acknowledging his fault she would say "he has a weakness for beauty"

because the writers read the book wrong. in the books she was more understanding, still colder but more understanding

But before she even went she said “I know my baron” so she knew he was going to try something with her.

A combination of jealousy and concern. Jealous because the Baron is practically like a husband to her; concern because Sayuri had to be a virgin for the bidding (disturbing as it sounds).

Listen to American conservative Christians talking about sex before marriage and you’ll know the reason. It’s disgusting, but it’s how women have been treated for much of history.

So what

Based off a real geisha too...

@@Angelaaa1015 perhaps I should of included I was impressed it was written by a man.

I will criticise patriarchy here, I will criticise patriarchy there, I will criticise patriarchy in a house, I will criticise patriarchy with a mouse.

Not anymore… do your research

@@Angelaaa1015I read Geisha of Gion by Iwasaki Mineko and she doesn’t mince words about the fact that the industry imploded due to its inability to get with the times in its treatment of women. Mineko quit at the height of her career, about 60 other geisha followed her and the industry kept haemorrhaging geisha until only a few okiya were left. All because the industry was stuck in the past and refused to listen when geisha like Mineko pointed out problems and suggested solutions.

Must be an issue with your English skills, then.

@@darkforest7736 Lord have mercy. May Jesus Christ show you compassion and love from this moment forward 💖

Shit like this is why feminism was created.

True ... but a great chinese actress like Gong Li adds a very nuanced fiery power in angry scenes like this ... and Michelle Yeoh's highly dignified and regal performance really feels authentic in her own unique way ..

How would a Japanese actress have done this scene differently? (I ask this in utmost respect. I am honestly intrigued and want to learn the cultural nuances.)

@@CeltycSparrow You need to watch a range of Japanese movies and a range of Chinese movies to see the differences in mannerism and intonation between Japanese and Chinese actors (f&m). I believe that the Hollywood milking machine chose those two particular Chinese actors because of their box office drawing power, on the back of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, assuming that most Western moviegoers don't know enough about Cultural and Linguistic differences to care.

The book was a bestseller in the west and a forgone conclusion they would make a film out of it. The Chinese and Malaysian actresses so beautiful and elegant but the actresses should have been Japanese. Would love to see a remake with Japanese actors speaking their native language. The best films I have seen are world cinema with subtitles.

Japanese actors wouldn't play these roles it's wildly taboo...given the history of how the story was actually told and the author that wrote it and the geisha who told the story in confidence that her story would be anonymous but not.