@michaeldavis6607 omg that made me laugh!

Maybe it is Schrödinberg's cat?

If your cat can play the Gigue, take that show on the road!

And any mistake can only make this better.

@@oeaoo always amusing when people think they're cleverer than Schoenberg

@@isaacvandermerwe744 that is no more than projection.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 this ! #FACT

🤓

Just headband on the keys, close enough

jury : "you played a wrong note" pianist : "did i ?" jury : "did you ?"

@@colossaltitan3546 i was about to say, its not like the judges are actually reading this music, play some quiet notes and some loud notes with some made up rhythms and you're good to go. i would have hated to have been shoenberg's transcriber

@@RustyDodd well the thing with schoenberg is his serialist style actually has a distinct style, even though you technically could make rows with certain intervals for example thirds, he avoided them, accidentally play too many of those and a distinction in style would be pretty obvious to judges

@@Cesar-ey7wu boulez: "he did. my turn."

A manufacturer of.

Agreed.

​@@oeaoowhy are you everywhere in the comments if you don't like music just go and leave it STFU

He was!

김문문 wow

감사함다!!!

ありがとうございます。

Thank you

Not only do you have to respect the strange artistry of these compositions, but also the emotianlity which encapsulates the anxiety and terror of nazi germany

ty bro. gonna use that in my music presentation

I don't play video games. Nevertheless I would think they are friendlys if there is such a thing in games.

No.

Same here. Fully agree.

Can you please elaborate?

​@@Lalulalala824 it was a huge motivator for music in the 20th century to evolve past tragedy and victory since the n@zis kept using it as a tool for manipulation and propaganda

⁠@@f.p.2010and this was written in the early 1920s, literally nothing to do with the nazis, he is using a new compositional technique to push past the boundaries of the tonal system and that’s all there is to it really

​@@elliotfinucane5583I wasn't talking about this piece anyways

Funny, I'm listening this to study for a midterm in an hour

Still listening that one when need inspiration , reflecting on a project, etc... help me.to let my thoughts go.

This is indeed the best stuff to listen to while studying for functional analysis exam.

Study for your exam, sir- Schoenberg

Joke

It's full of melody and mood swings. This music is very distracting. I don't know how you can study while listening to it. I couldn't.

​@@garrysmodsketchesreal its filled with such tension

Totally🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱

Nothing relaxing to me!

@@catapatata What did it make you feel?

@@antfaz Something like... Uneasy

@@catapatata That's totally valid too! Shows how powerful music is, how it can affect us in so many different ways.

haha interesting

***** I don't really get you. I don't think it is very beneficial for us to keep discussing music.

***** ok haha I am fine if you would like to think that. might be true for all i know

***** Thanks, but I actually don't record most of what I play, especially the things I work on for months or years. Ha, funny you bring up the berceuse. I just about deleted it but decided not to. Easily my worst :) and I can't afford to tune my piano too often, unfortunately.

Noah Johnson no johns

The tired walls of tonality?

OMG I WAS THINKING THE SAME THING

Breath of the Wild's night soundtrack sounds awfully evocative of this music...

I’m having a tough day and this made me lol thank u

Omg same thought

*A GUARDIAN IS LOOKING AT YOU RIGHT NOW*

Jyry Halonen try listening to Stockhausen

Women are Objects Stockhausen is one of the great composer's, I definitely recommend checking him out. Some of his work is definitely more intense, dissonant and chaotic (intentionally) than Schoenberg could ever hope for, after all Schoenberg was just a romantic composer

@@JohnSmith-iu3jg answering 2 years later because my comment got hearted. I didn't mean the playfulness as a bad thing but rather just a thing. It's very musical and playful at the same time as being harmonically harmonically dense. Same as John Coltrane's Giant Steps. That being said I should listen to Stockhausen I still haven't haha

@Jerf Hankell but you like listening to minimal music?

@Jerf Hankell minimal music really pussies me off when I listen to it

I know how you feel. I grew up with the Paul Jacobs and it's hard to shake the first wonderful interpretations of a piece such as this monumental achievement.

gould for me

Gould was horrible! His Bach is divine...but he butchered Ravel, Berg and everyone else he turned his hand to. There's nothing wrong with Pollini but this recording is also fabulous.

​@@geraintdavies4694 Oh come on. Gould doesn't butcher anything. If you don't prefer his interpretations that's fine. I actually like them, not always my favorites but his playing is impeccable and he's doing what he wants to do and he makes the listener think and hear the music in a different way, many times for the better.

Idk man I've seen plenty children play the same

@@johannkaribaldursson215 Either you don't mean that or you are not listening. You aren't wrong that there's some of that spirit of play and spontaneity. Unpredictability. But it's still an articulate and hyper organized version of that. The tempo is not erratic. And listen, when you are trained, it's incredibly difficult to avoid the patterns and resolves. Even if you don't enjoy it, it's a marvel of composition. I personally find it meditative. It avoids all the known pathways that western music follows. There are times when its all I can listen to. Only so much C-D tension resolving to G one can stand. You do you. But saying that it sounds the same as a child banging on a piano, compliment though it would be in some ways, just doesn't match whats happening. It is hyper specialized music for musicians though its kind of true.

​@@heathflagtvedt5769 It doesn't "avoid all the known pathways that western music follows." It rejects some ideas about harmony inherent in almost all music (including non-western music.) Everything else (including many other aspects of harmony) are at most incrementally modified compared to almost all modern classical music, (such as Schoenberg's tonal works.)

The problem really is that I hate it so much.

@@marcusvaldes Lol thats a perfect response though! we dont need to debate what we like or dislike so much. Plenty of music out there for you to enjoy? do you like tarregas? david russell kills it. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gs6Gg7eEzZu9eIE.html

Don Patricio any time

It's not difficult for me.

Probably the beginning of the gavotte

Niina Ranta Some parts of it even bring to mind Bartok ;D

Almost Bulgarian rhythms.

Niina Ranta lol "irresistible "

The gigue is great because it's remembering the past.

I love the 12-Tone Technique.

May you have the blessing of gods.

I wish you could play his music live on the streets of Brentwood, Los Angeles. 😀

May you have the blessing of gods.

😂 had a good laugh lol

Sounds like cat running on the piano

@@TheBestHugger Shut up.

Johann Sebastian Bach he is not wrong though

@@10hartland He is, it is his fault that he can not see merit in this impecabley organized piece.

Johann Sebastian Bach it sounds horrible, just hearing it gives me anxiety

It's a matter of musical education.

Richard Laforest on the internet, it is those 15 second attention spans

Explain. I do not get what you say. "It is those 15 second attention spans" ? I would like to catch it. Thanks

Richard Laforest Kid's internet culture that has spread to adults too. They demand instant gratification and then stamp their feet when they don't get what they think they want within 15 seconds

What I meant is simply that in my opinion, people who usually say that this piece of music, (such as Schoenberg's for example) is trash, might be because of a lack of musical education.

Gérard Begni how can any music sound "academic"?

I would argue that a piece is academic if it's trying to showcase a particular concept of music theory.

Or maybe I'm being ironic, as theory only comes after a piece has been created.

@@johnappleseed8369 I think what he means is it is surprisingly, exceptionally imaginitive, playful and explorative despite the limitations of a compositional technique we might consider the pursuit of a serious minded intellectual more interested in theories than the living soul of existence

Both kammersymphonies are IMO, unsung masterpieces of the 20th Century, but the first was the subject of my favorite bad review of a classical work- "one long, 20-minute wrong note."

I think he made a real twelve-tone musical piece after he came to the United States.

I think he mentioned 4 types of harmonic structure somewhere in the modulation chapter (tonal center, free floating tonality etc.) and seeing that alot of composers went for free floating tonality without a clear center he went as a consequence of that for the last step which is deliberately avoiding harmonic movements and reorganizing the entirity of the chromatic scale

I think the "systemization" of atonality in the twelve-tone method was an after-the-fact rationale. The fact is, the entire Second Viennese School were having difficulty crafting longer-form pieces with the same intense concentration as their free-atonal miniatures. The twelve tone method made longer forms more approachable by winnowing the compositional choices. Tellingly, after having adopted the method, Schoenberg immediately set about pouring the duodecaphonic wine into Neoclassical casks.

@@DeflatingAtheism Very interesting! But don't you think both reasons played a role? I think there's no logical reason free atonality couldn't go with large forms

@@hippotropikas5374 oh free atonality definitely can go w larger forms, Schoenberg's Erwartung is an example, but that's one of the few examples bc writing long-form pieces in that style is just really damn hard

@@djspacewhale I trust you ^^

I bet you guys had a fun time playing this

Serial music is the farthest you can get from harmony.

otonanoC it’s not serial --that was a corrupted concept that cam decades later and is devoid of expressive power usually.

It's great!

@@otonanoC This work is easy to get harmony because the content is tonality music.

@@otonanoC Not necessarily. Firstly, there are more than one type of 'harmony', and even the term itself can be fraught with subjective interpretation of what constitutes 'harmonising' relationships. However, if you're working from a definition of harmony which is directly associated with the lineage of Western 'tonality' [ - 'tonality' also being a potentially subjective term!] from say, Palestrina, to Bach, to Beethoven, to Wagner, to Debussy, to jazz, blues, rock, pop, country, etc, then yes - there is an obvious set of differences. However, some of those differences are 'structural', as in, they are inherently different due to the different structural parameters governing serial practice, and traditional or contemporary 'tonal' practice. However, there are numerous areas of potential commonality between them - but the key word is 'POTENTIAL', and that potential must be TAPPED!. Many, perhaps most, examples of serial composition which inform our perception of the 'practice', were associated with 'anti-tonal' perogatives, which were ADOPTED, yet presumed as being synonymous with serial practice. However, 'anti-tonality', or so-called 'atonality', do not have to be, and are not necessarily, associable with SERIAL STRUCTURE, with regard to its formal parameters and protocols, its structural principles. Several 20th C composers already proved this by incorporating 'tonal' elements into their serial approach, including Schoenberg himself (eg. in "Ode To Napolean"), as well as (famously) his student, Alban Berg, and later composers such as American, George Rochberg. However, I would put to you that even these composers barely scratched the surface of how traditional & contemporary tonal elements and principals can be fused with serial structure, or how serial structure can be approached and extended so as to develop 'tonality', and associated 'harmony' from its structural parameters. Essentially, serialism is somewhat algorithmic, and if you look into the work of composer/theorist David Cope, you will find a lot of research into how formulae produce repeatable results, and how this can apply even to traditional musical language and style, so that formulae can 'recreate' Mozart. However, the typical ('classical') approach to 12 tone serialism may not be able to produce 'Mozart' per se, yet it can produce its OWN type of 'tonality', as was discovered and championed by Josef Hauer (even before Schoenberg had solidified HIS concept of dodecaphonic serialism), as well as communicate typical, or atypical 'tonal' relationships and effects. Don't forget too, that serialism, even strictly formulaic applications of it, does not have to be dodecaphonic (12-tone), but may be applied to ANY group of notes, be it the major scale, a dominant seventh chord, the minor pentatonic, and so on. Any of them can be 'serialised'. Stravinsky famously applied serial principles to rows of four or five notes. Also, many of the 479, 001600 possible 12-tone rows inevitably contain such scalar/chordal entities as segments/portions, which can be exploited as separate tonal entities in applications of rows. The main point I'm making to you in this detailed reply is that many roads can be taken, and just as Wagner and Mahler showed that the diatonic scale and traditional tonal relationships could be manipulated within a chromatic environment to the point of extreme ambiguity and/or dissonance, so too can serial schemata be designed and/or exploited to promote consonance and tonal relationships. This is a current undertaking in my own compositional practice, and I'm discovering all sorts of possibilities by open-mindedly applying, both, tonal and algorithmic logic to very strict serial formulae. It's fun, and the music is proving the possibility of the two paradigms being united.

Rhythm becomes much more important with atonality and the absence of tonal semitone pulls.

He wanted to make to listen to something like Bach's keyboard suite. You can decide if he succeeded or not. I think he was half successful.

Yes, the rhythm is vivid, and important to the character of the piece, but as for 'not' employing harmonies, that is a misunderstanding, since the serial structure ensures the presence of a specific TYPE of harmony. True, the piece is not built from standard tertian chords derived from the major scale, but there are 'harmonies' other than those. This piece demonstrates 'other' types of harmony characteristic of chromatic aggregates (all available twelve notes one after another) in a fixed, repeating order (a 'tone-row'). Essentially, 'sitting on a piano' will create a 'harmony', but it may not be what you are able to musically 'hear', or it just may not be what you 'like'. Schoenberg had a gift for creating rhythmic interest, but harmony was his true field of expertise, and he did not abandon that connection to it, he just reworked it into the serial framework.

In fact, the composer of Tom & Jerry used the 12-tone technique xd

Y'all are downs

qvistus82 I agree

+qvistus82 Music isn't a language, though.

Yes it is, though. (www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/02/how-brains-see-music-as-language/283936/ )

No, it isn't. Just because music has something in common with language doesn't make music a language. If music could convey objectivity like language can, you'd have a more cogent point.

+OneFourFive You must be an infant if you think an infant could play this.

toothless toe Okay, it takes a genius to write it, but to most people, it sounds like an infant wrote it. Is that better? Actually, now that I think of it, Picasso said he spent his entire adult life trying to learn how to paint like a child again.

+Maestro_T No, it's not better. An infant can't do anything other than to eat, drink, shit, and cry. Your statement would make more logical sense if you said this sounds like a child made it. However, you'd still be wrong, because I know what a child would write and it wouldn't remotely come close to the complexity exhibited in this composition. If Schoenberg's goal was to get his music to sound childish (not the pejorative childish), he utterly failed in that regard.

toothless toe Do you really think Picasso meant he wanted to paint exactly like a child? I think he was referring to the freedom, imagination, and creativity a child's mind has, not inhibited by conventions and traditions that one picks up over years of formal training--not losing the other abilities and depth one picks up as an adult. Do his paintings look like a child did them? Obviously not. Anyway, the point is that to a lot of people, probably most, this sounds like a bunch of messing around that a child would do. That doesn't mean they're right. (It also doesn't mean this is a great aesthetic either just because it's so unconventional, incidentally, regardless of how genius it might be.)

"It also doesn't mean this is a great aesthetic either just because it's so unconventional. . ." If one thought this music was great just because it's unconventional, he/she would be a pretentious, ostentatious shitbag.

Yes exactly! I'm not sure if Schoenberg originated this use of it but my piano teacher used to write the same in my music

I agree 100%

Needs less piano. 🙉

I respect your opinion. But I find very annoying that for some Schoenberg fans one cant just dislike his music without being called ignorant. There are many cultivated classical music listeners who just dont like his music. I think its almost a crime to compare Schoenberg with any great composer. I have even heard some crazy fanatics placing Schoenberg above Beethoven and calling him the greatest ever. However I dont underestimate the perception and musical culture of his fans. I respect their opinion and perhaps some day I will find something enjoyable in his music, which I seriously doubt. So dont dismiss those who dont like his music.

May you have the blessing of gods.

@@Guillermopianista He is the founder of a new religion.

@@Guillermopianista If you think Schönberg fans are dogmatic, try Bach fans. Heaven forbid someone doesn't like Bach, he must be either musically illiterate or stupid. Besides, the opposite applies as well, namely that people who don't like Schönberg accuse his fans of being posers who only pretend to like his music to appear cultured.

The cost of understanding art is always a type of alienation. Laymen expect art to magically conform to the expectations one holds in the mind, but the reality is that great art is something worth altering the state of your mind for. You adapt to it or you don't. Adaptation is always alienation from those unworthy or unwilling to do so themselves.

ok, sure, fine. But can you people just shut up?

sigh

Atonality be interesting from an intellectual perspective, but it cannot resonate with human emotion.

Can't it?

Thanks for helping me with my Schoolprojekt! I searched for the tonesystem 1h and now i found it, THANKS

May you have the blessing of gods.

Suit yourself

you're right.

Because you have bad taste.

@@BioChemistryWizard that makes no sense... schoenberg's music is filled with many repeating elements and underlying elements that raise questions which I personally think are cool... just because it doesn't sound good to you doesn't make it music for people with bad taste...

May you have the blessing of gods.

Honestly I like listening to this more then listening to Scriabin sonatas

Music should never require theory knowledge to be enjoyed - music theory should deepen the enjoyment, but not be a requirement. Otherwise it becomes a dry academic exercise which computers can easily create, and the composer can feel like a misunderstood genius ahead of his time.

you're right. This work is Schoenberg's experimental work. So it's natural that you can't understand. Please listen to the piano work before Op.24. Or listen to Piano Concerto Op.42. Even if you don't understand them, you'll love them.

As a musical student I enjoy listening to this but not casually This makes me confused and I imagine a lot of situations where these themes could fit in, but it's mainly chaos and weirdness

don't try to "understand" it, just listen to it a few times and let your ear explore the music. If you get familiar with the piece (aurally), then you will be able to wrap your head around the structure of the piece eventually.

Nah, not forgotten. Just less performed than it ought to be. One of if not my favorite solo piano pieces between 2nd Viennese school and pre 1950's. Babbitt and Carter both moved the needle forward on solo piano post WWII. Your suggestion that it is braniac music would be akin to saying that quantum mechanics is a thought experiment - which it is - but has no useful applications. Which is not true. Gorgeous music that stands by itself as enjoyable and profoundly moving.

@@stueystuey1962 profoundly moving to a very small segment of people - too invested in doing something new, in my opinion, after the fashion of some of Yoko Ono’s art. Uniqueness alone is not worthy of approval, however carefully crafted the uniqueness is. Something can be masterfully made and I’ll acknowledge that while never wanting to hear or see it.

@UCjAoI8fxulxHEQqCWotC2EQ I agree that some people do find it emotionally meaningful. I’d just also argue that there ARE people who claim to find art like this emotionally meaningful because they’re pretentious, the same way I’ll assume that someone who finds a painting consisting entirely of the color green is being pretentious. Humans can find meaning in basically everything and anything, given effort. Literally anything. Good art, in my opinion, makes finding that meaning an easier shared joy.

@@jamesohearn2364 bottom line here is I enjoy sch op 25 as much as I enjoyed Brahms 3rd symphony or jumping jack flash. We all have our limitations. Visual art barely moves me, regardless of style or period. Just doesnt do anything really. Same quite frankly with poetry. But music I am passionate, and Schoenberg is one of the most important contributors to the arts in all of the western tradition. Not for theoretical or philosophical reasons but for sheer artistry composing some of the most powerful, enjoyable and mystical sounds ever put together.

Pitches equalization. Abandonment of hegemony.

It's quite easy to understand the idea behind it. It's based on 12 notes, so you must compose using every single one of them to make a 12 tone row. Then and only then you can repeat the first note. To make things more interesting and adding variations you can play your row backwards, this is called the retrogade; or you can invert the intervals, meaning that if you went up a minor third you must go down a minor third; there's also the inverted retrogade and finally you can transpose your row. The notes can be also played harmonicaly. And that's pretty much how it goes.

Oooh, the dynamics and colors are also on the spotlight 😮

so¿ did you get to learn it¿

You're right. This work is an experimental work.

Although different in a lot of ways, and not necessarily a rejection of tonality, Beethovens "Grand Fugue" was also a suggestion of the desire for order, even at the expense of traditional understanding of the average ear. Under the seemingly confusing outside, there is a very intriguing and complex inside, similar to this. Composers have been doing that stuff for years.

Agreed, but can this "cult of progress" be continued ad infinitum? Or is there a point where it ends?

@@dpetrov32 Well, not really, according to Schoenberg. Schoenberg recognized that modernism may give rise to legitimate randomness and simply creates a way to avoid tonality and maintain order. He uses a 12 tone scale system that makes sure that there is musical democracy, along with certain rules about where high and low notes are placed. Theoretically, can modernism devolve into something completely random? The answer to that is probably yes, you have composers like John Cage who used to VERY heavily push the boundaries of music to its absolute limit (listen to his "Water Walk" or "4:33", both as live performances since the audience is "part of the music", and personally I think it occasionally gets too far out there for my taste), but in regards to Schoenberg, I say that it isnt infinite. Plus, even if there was no order, and the notes themselves were random, he maintains the use of rhythms that it some way mobe the music in a direction, even if the direction is unknown.

@@Indie0204The composer experimented with his invention.

@@dpetrov32 Atonality is eternal.

If you don't like it, turn it off 😂

Give it another chance

I also strongly resent this music (I love the romantic period), but it is anything but random. Just Google 'Dodecaphony'. Themes are also split or mixed up. Trust me, I even had the first bars of this Suite as part of my final music exam at a Bavarian High School.

In German musical nomenclature, B♭ is B, and B is H. The B♭-A-C-B motif is used all throughout classical music (see Liszt's Fantasy and Fugue on BACH, or the last fugue in Bach's own Art of Fugue, for instance.)

Ashish Xiangyi Kumar Thank you for clearing that up....I learn something new every day :) Of course B-flat would be the same as A-sharp with modern equal tempermant

Ashish : I guess you are half right. However, there are no connexions at all between the word, the name and the motif. It is just a coincidence that the spelling of the name matches the letters of a motif on the basis that the musical notes are named with A- B- C-D etc. The name of the person called Harper, for instance, doesn't mean that the person has a "personal" (or real) connexion with the instrument called the "harp" The person is not necessary a player of that instrument just because is name is Harper. Did I make myself understood? A - B -C - D - etc, is just a way to write music and be understood by everyone.

Richard Laforest what’s interesting though is that Bach actually wrote his name at times in his music using musical notation which was possible because of how the Germans used H instead of B in their musical notation. The other composers mentioned at times included that specific series of notes within their music as a nod to Bach doing this in his own music.

Cap

I'm confused by your use of the word "atonal." It looks as though you regard it as a pejorative, when it's merely a technical description, akin to saying that Beethoven's Fifth Symphony is in C Major. I share your enthusiasm for this work; it DOES sound great! But the fact is that Schoenberg wrote it in 12-tone technique, which he developed precisely to ensure that any piece written by this method would have no identifiable tonal center.

No, Schoenberg thought that atonality was impossible because of the inherent possibilities in any group of tones to create hierarchy. He didn't want to erase centers, but rather create new ways of centering.

Ben Schweitzer Correct, it only takes one to go through the music slowly to see the way the centers morph and shift, to create truly "atonal" music would require all the notes of every octave to be played simultaneously for the entire piece (which wouldn't be an interesting piece)

+Andrei Anghel I don't really recall anyone comparing this "trash" with the music of Bach. Even if anyone did, although such comparison would be silly, it wouldn't constitute an offense.

schoenberg hated the term atonal

You don't start with this piece. Maybe try to listen to Schönberg's pieces chronologically (they start out tonal) to give yourself a better view

Appreciating Jazz has been a crucial stepping stone to music like this for me, but is probably not the only path