I thought te translation was more "A dressed up sword"

Espada means spade or a stright double edged sword/blade. Ropera is cloths from ropa meaning clothing. So literally clothing/dress sword. Dress sword adapted from Bilbo sword that originated Basque city of Bilbao/ Bilbo in english. These very short swords or long daggers depending on perspective were common place among sailors, pirates & criminal though out the old & new world. If a pirate didn't use a cutlass/ hanger they used a Bilbo that got fancy with a bit more length as the fashion called a dress sword. I have sperate comment going into far more general detail.

@@arnijulian6241 the translation for 'espada' is simply sword. any sword

It is Spaniard

What about Conquistadores? What is the name of their sword? They would not use rapier in a war right?

Elegantly put, things can fit multiple rolls and purposes. Imagine if people psychically communicated and didn't have to worry about using the right words. No argument over with something's called just seeing what's in there mind.

That's a good example. Two select-fire weapons in the same exact caliber with slightly different configurations could have very different intended purposes. Even the same base firearm in different configurations could serve different roles. The Uzi and MP5 come to mind.

When you say Ian, everyone here knows you're talking about Gun Jesus 😆

@@DrVictorVasconcelos : A person watching both Matt and Ian is wellinformed about handweapons.

Maybe, but consider how we are today--we very much classify almost everything. Who's to say they didn't have their own classification that we just don't understand?

antog hette huggare enbart...kortsvärdset används av flottan framförallt...sabel mera kavellerist endast...

God aftonbladet

Yeah, and not all sabers are curved. Many are straight.

well, at least some of the Degen could be differentiated by the lovely term Haudegen ... if you actually applied that to a sword rather than a person xD

These two aren't related, though. Meaning "hero" it's a Germanic term found as early as the 9th ct., I believe (thegan), but meaning a kind of weapon it appears to be a 14th century loan from French and the etymological counterpart of "dagger" (it's not quite clear what exactly these early occurances of the word denoted, the known use was obviously later, when rapiers etc. were around).

This particular phenomenon in German has led to a conundrum in the study of the great composer J.S. Bach... at least for me😅! In about 1705, while working in the small town of Arnstadt, Bach got into a fairly heated scuffle with another musician (a bassoonist to be exact), and it's well documented that Bach drew some sort of blade to defend himself. However, due to this extremely broad German term, Degen, I have never been able to ascertain exactly what type of weapon Johann Sebastien pulled on this guy! Some sources say "dagger", while others say "sword", and the renowned Bach scholar John Elliott Gardiner says "rapier"! So, I've never been able to figure out if Bach was just wearing a smallsword, which were certainly popular among German court employees of that period, or if he was carrying some manner of actual dagger, which in a sense, I would find to be more interesting. By the way, there is also a type of very long dagger/shortish sword that emerged in late medieval Switzerland that was sort of a continuation of the Basilard, and it was called the Degen. They had hilts somewhat like the "Swiss daggers" or "Holbein daggers" worn by German military officers during WW2, but had VERY long blades (sometimes two ft.!). I wonder if this weapon could be the earliest usage of the term Degen that you were referencing...

@@andreweden9405 regarding bach, i vote for a small sword or some kind of dagger. i don't think geyersbach would have attacked him with a stick if he was wearing a full-length rapier!?

I always think of the word, "Degen," as I do an older Norse word, "Mækir". If it's too long to be a dolch but neither schwert nor messer then it must be a degen. Clear as mud, as they say.

French language has been stagnating for a while, because the French government has power to regulate the language itself (sounds like total nonsense to me.)

@@wserthmar8908 it doesn't, it (or rather the language council, which most countries/languages have) has the right to regulate the standardised, official form of it, that is what you learn at school, use in documents and formal settings

@@Sk0lzky, thanks for the information

@@Sk0lzky That seems like a difference only in semantics. And no, it's basically only French that has such a thing. In fact basically every French-speaking country has their own separate one, that's how much of a French thing it is.

@@Sk0lzky if they have the power to regulate the standard official version of the language... That is the govt having the power to regulate the language, so the other guy wasnt wrong.

Ah. Ropera. Like 'Ropa,' ie, clothes..I get it. Is that the etymology, or its equivalent in French, of the word, 'rapier,' then?

@@n.w.1803 It was the equivalent, they just took it and literally pronounce it using their phonetic rules. Same would happen with the term "gentil hombre" and 'gentleman'

Thanks for the explanation. I feel that in spanish we have SO FEWER words to differentiate things than in english; that this "Ropera" thing is really our little exception, haha.

@@defaultytuser Don't feel bad. Modern English contains literally about twice as many words as any other language. At least we don't have to learn 10,000 Chinese characters...well, not yet..

@@n.w.1803 hahaha stole the words from my mouth ... "not yet"

Like how a TV nowadays is most likely a flatscreen OLED of quite the size with a remote, but even 40 years back it would have meant a relatively small CRT with the controls on the set that most likely could display colour.

@@dr.krimson1010 We feel the need to specify when it's different from what people might assume. Like in the future, (assuming things continue as they're going), nobody's going to feel the need to say "I have an electric car", because it will be assumed that every car is electric. Right now, people specify because they're not the norm

Sword is just a generic taxonomy like vehicle or radio. It could mean a bicycle or a walkie-talkie as easily as it could an SUV or a modem or a boat or an airplane or a kick scooter or a police scanner or a CB or a HAM or even one of those consoles you listen to music on or a Sony Walkman. And don't write off internal combustion just yet! Making batteries for cars generates as much CO2 as if you drove around an old Lincoln Towne Car for 15ish years. We'd all be using hydrogen fuel cells except it takes more energy to produce the stuff from electrolysis than it generates when you turn it back into water-at least right now. Whether it's hydrogen or some sort of ethanol-based biofuel, time will tell. The race is on.

And for some reason, Japanese swords are always called, "swords" by speakers of European languages, despite the fact that a single-edged, slightly curved blade might more properly be called a sabre, or even something like the kriegsmesser (they have a similar sort of construction)...come to think of it, I actually have a book of weaponry from the mid-late 1800s that refers to the "sabres" of the "samourai." But that was a book that payed more attention to aesthetics and ornament than to the functional aspects of the weapons..

@@n.w.1803 Well, in Polish both messer and katana are in sabre category.

@@jozefkozon4520 Really? My Polish ancestry must've tipped me off.

In what an archaeologist might term "systematics" this "sword" sword vs. various kinds, is a class vs type question. One reason there is so much confusion is because there are so many distinct ideas about how one differentiated members of the class. I grew up considering rapiers were swords with long, narrow blades. I "logically" concluded, still being in grade school, that "broadswords" were just swords with wider blades than rapiers. it wasn't until I was in high school that I achieved the degree of confusion we enjoy at present.

In the modern day, Espada just means sword in spanish.

Your experience is quite correct

@@VonRibbitt The same as back then

IMO whatever archeologist decided to muddy the waters by refering to those bronze age swords by a word invented in the 16th C has a lot to answer for.

@@trikepilot101 Yeah you're probably right! It's a bit wierd but it makes some sense since they're thrusting swords.

@@trikepilot101 I haven't made a very extensive study on those blades, but the earliest writing I recall seeing that term used in for them was Oakshott's "Archeology of Weapons".

This is super interesting. There's a similarity in the modern era with the rise of bare knuckle boxing. Boxing is the sweet science, buuuuut, bkb is seen as barbaric. This is because of the commonly suffered face cuts suffered by the bare knuckle boxers. It looks barbaric rather than sporting like in Queensbury rules boxing.

I've heard that theory too, but it means people had a specific logic back then: we can carry stabbing weapons every day and duel each other in the street because the wounds are small and the sight isn't disgusting, and the fact that a deep stab wound is deadly is an unimportant detail XD

@@odoakerx5260 I would 100% believe it. People are more aesthetically driven than we like to admit.

@@benm5913 And that's fascinating too to me, because (and correct if I'm wrong) as far as I'm aware, bare knuckle boxing is generally less dangerous than boxing. With BKB a fighter has to be careful with the force of their punches, knowing that they could shatter their knuckles potentially; whereas conversely, a contemporary boxer has the protection of the gloves, allowing them to hit as hard as possible (and with the added weight of the glove too!)

Warning: unhinged ramble with caveats ahead, reader discretion advised. I suspect it would be more about the perceived primitivity (any peasant can flail, well, a flail around) and physical demands of cut-centric fencing as opposed to precision, nuance and perceived effortlessness of thrust-dominant fencing (judging high level rapier contests without replays is a joke, we should get white jackets and use some paint soaked foam or something on edges lol). The gruesomeness of wounds might've been considered in case both parties survived the duel though, in that case many a young noble would rather die or have a small "scabby" wound than lose an ear, a nose or a hand like it usually happened in saber-duelling cultures. That being said I think these, if existed, would actually be post-facto rationalisations. Italy was the main exporter of culture in renaissance and baroque, and early on that includes the martial one, and had a wealth of competing schools (especially considering the size of the peninsula, not to mention the northern Italy in particular which really led the charge in this regard), and at some point the idea of a guy (Viggiani iirc? Don't quote me on that lol) promoting thrust as the superior form of attack over cut became widely popular (not without merit!) leading to the spread of his methodology*. Simple as. *it was largely caused by italian, or rather bolognese fencing becoming so ridiculously flowery it supposedly started losing its point (pun unintended), and thrusting is the least complex and therefore most mechanically efficient, meaning least tiresome, fastest and probably more importantly least telling way of delivering the iron into opponent's body, especially in sword forward systems (in sword retracted systems it's probably equal but they both give more time for reaction and require more time to bring sword in-line to protect yourself, it's why so many longsword tournament winners lean heavily into longpoint-esque guards)

That's probably a Bilbo, which was used by Spanish cavalry when most were armed with sabres and backswords.

There is no german word for smallswords. Hofdegen, Promenierdegen, Kavaliersdegen, Zierdegen ...

@@brittakriep2938 That's not the general word for it, that only describes a special kind of smallsword worn at court. Smallswords were also civilian weapons, i can't imagine the average civilian gentleman called his Degen a Hofdegen...

@@Blutroth : I am Brittas boyfriend, no real expert in historic weapons. I only know Degen as german word for smallswords , spadroons, sideswords, rapiers, fencing epee, duelling epee and in widest view also heavy cavallry sword ( Pallasch). This means weapons mostly used for stabbing. But i don' t really know a german word, which describes exactly and only a civilian smallsword. In novels or nonmilitary museums you can find the noted words, but, as you surely know, novel writers or museum staff often have no real knowledge about weapons. And the civilian smallsword, used by high and low noblemen, rich nonnobles ( Patrizier or british ,gentry'), may be men of upper middleclass or high/ important officials was not only used as a weapon, but was also a sign for status and authority. And : As a person with Asperger disorder it is not so easy, to explain, what i think.

@@brittakriep2938 Thanks for your answer...im a native German speaker..just find it unrealistic that they called them all Hofdegen. In the 18th century they called a lot of duelling stabbing weapons also "Pariser" and "Lungenfuchser". (Pariser meaning "from Paris", France) and Lungenfuchser meaning piercer of lungs. So I think it's more likely that the more civilian people with Degen called their weapons like this..

@@Blutroth : I am native swabian speaker :-)). The ,Pariser' ( Not the current slang one!) was , as far as i know, a weapon only used for duels and studentic ,Mensur' bouts/ Stoßmensur up to 1850s. It had a disk as handguard, no kind of bars ( Bügel/ Spangen). The civilian smallsword, used by upper middleclass, upperclass and important officials, had been carried as sidearm, somewhere i read, that ,romanic' gentlemen allways carried their smallsword, while ,germanic' gentlemen sometimes only carried a stick/ cane. Also i read, that in 1780s France ( ancien regime) elderly gentlemen carried their smallsword more regularly than young gentlemen. When you visit a museum/ castle, have a look on 17th/ 18th century gentlemens canes! Some of them have a similarity to a long mace.

It's not just social stigma in this regard but also safety. Assaults are generally conducted from an ambush, and a gun draws attention to the carrier as potential danger to be eliminated first. It can also make you a target for a gun, many career criminals learn to steal holstered guns (I'm sure you've seen some videos or news about exactly this happening to a cop, including some fairly gruesome clips where said cop ends up being executed. And cops are a prime target because they carry the gun outside of the fighting angle, that is at the back and out of their sight and immediate reach). Anyway I totally see this to have been the case, we know for example that having a large all-purpose knife in many more developed states all the way back in 1830s wasn't particularly well seen (I suspect especially in cities), Matt even quoted a source from mid 1800s in one of his bowie videos

From what I've read about practices in German, I think that may be an example of people "Bringing their own from home," if that makes sense. Having very little knowledge on the 30 years war, I believe that it's reasonable that a fair amount of men couldn't afford or otherwise procure a more suitable sword and so went with something rather than nothing. Of course maybe those of types of sword make excellent and handy side arms when it's hit the fan, and it's a deliberate choice!

@@imagine_you_are_a_burger I think it’s reasonable to assume that’s the case. For how detail oriented baroque artists were, I’d be surprised if they “accidentally” depicted the wrong sort of sword.

@@SecundusInfernus multiple explanations could be true. Some might have felt they were better with a thinner blade than with a broader blade. Some probably had no choice. Some probably just thought the thinner blade looked nicer

I read somewhere that in the Spanish army when the empire, that it was frowned upon among soldiers for one to carry a sword for civilian use, from which I deduce that there were those who used rapiers in the army. in my non-expert opinion, it could be related to the excessive flexibility of civilian rapiers

@@lrdkuzco Well, that would make a lot of sense actually. And if true it’s helpful insight, since Spanish Tercio is actually what I plan to begin reenacting soon.

I don't think (and I may be wrong here) there was much duelling in the Middle Ages. Tournaments had melees and jousting. I'm not aware of duelling being a thing there.

Rapiers are not that light. At least as heavy an earlier cross hilt one hand swords. There balance is considerably more in the hilt, though the blade is longer, so they were not easier to wear.

Based on what I know about German and Italian fencing, you would learn how to thrust with a rapier, cut with another sword and together you'd have a complete cut and thrust fencing method to do both with.

Does schiavona even allow for comfortable thrusting or holding an in-line guard (think destreza or thibault)? The basket looks very similar to a mortuary hilt and they tend to have giant pommels, based on pictures alone I can't imagine doing rapier with one even if it the blade had a steep taper

The schiavona is more appropriately a 'side sword'/function more like a cut and thrust vs a thrusting centric Rapier. The main problem we all seem to be having is we want to name a sword without considering how it would be used. The fact that swords generally were just called 'sword' rather than giving a narrow definition as we like to do today isn't helping us.

@@Sk0lzky I wouldn't expect it to. It's a basket hilted sword with a cross guard you can hold in all the ways you can hold a rapier.

Interesting question

Or someone that was tired of getting tangled up with the long blade every time he tried sitting down.

And shpaga in Russian is also epée...