KorKhan89 Lighter no, elegant, well it's all opinion.

J. Corban Murphy I know, I was just putting in my 2 cents

Great post!

waa, i didn't know that. Nice to know!

616lordofdarkness "I don't always drink... but when I do, I get my stabby stab stab stab, on!" (I don't meant to speak I'll of the dead, I hope you see the humor in this :D)

Lion of Judah if this is the case, then by all means, change your name .

Cool family story

Sucks man you would have been rich

Attention! A ,von' in a german family name must not be a sign of nobility! Also some noblemen have no ,von'!

+Allen Baker Essentially yes, although I would argue for rapier also rolling with dexterity even though its heavier.

+Allen Baker All weapon in melee combat should realistically require skill with the weapon, dexterity sort of, and agility. Not strength at all, unless you are grappling, strength is for archery.

+Lensius ill give dnd and other rpgs the very big two handed swords the really big more fantasy ones that arent all that realistic. Other than that though swords should probably pretty much all be dex based not strength based. Archery makes way more sense for strength than dexterity.

+Allen Baker In 5e the rapier is no longer a light weapon, it is a finesse weapon that can use dex instead of strength for to hit and dmg

Likewise, D&D weights are actually somewhat accurate this time around, being slightly on the heavy side but being within what we'd expect a specimen to be (The Rapier for example is 2 lbs, while the longsword is 3 lbs) Except for the Pike. The pike is 18 lbs for whatever reason, despite being a shorter example of pike.

+Gleb Rumyantsev How would you pronounce that, BTW? (I haven't tried to learn Russian/Cyrillic yet)

+HipposHateWater It's "rapira".

same in lithuanian

Actually, the term for rapier in Russian is шпага (shpaga); same term is also used for both smallswords and epees. Рапира (rapira) is a foil.

elladan0891 shpaga is used for almost all thrusting swords in russian and even in my country. They didnt need to classify it.

Värja as a term for all blade sidearms? This is clearly german Wehr, the bayonett was in Germany often called Seitengewehr. Up to 18th Gewehr ( today umbrella term for long firearms) could also be a polearm or bladed sidearm.

MartinGreywolf Yeah, when I see rapier hilts with epee blades is makes me upset. Sometimes I cry.

MartinGreywolf I think it's mostly becouse of films. All those crappy Zorro films, geesus.

"Crappy Zorro films"? I will have to rewatch The Mask of Zorro until it washes the bad aftertaste of those swords out of my mouth. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pKhop8yEsqnbgnk.html Funny thing rewatching this older movies is that they always have fencing sabre blades mounted on semi-period appropriate hilts kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nKyff9CZrs2tqIE.html

utterly*

Fencing is still really popular in most german fraternities, atleast the ones i got to know in southern germany.

***** Damn! I knew I shouldn't have left the drama club!

emlmm88 If you think rapiers are beautiful, which I'd agree. I'd highly suggest that you look up an 'Italian Sides Sword variant'. I absolutely, hands down, LOVE that type of blade. The blade tapers, not only down the width of the blade, but the length as well. If I could describe what it is, I'd say that it's a medieval arming sword with the handle of a rapier. To me, it's the best of both worlds. You can cut limbs off, & still thrust like no tomorrow. Now, I'm not using hyperbole, or speaking 'softly' when I say that it can hack limbs. Pig carcass & tissue is one of the closest things relating to human flesh. I've seen it personally with my own eyes cut straight through a pig's stomach, chop the leg off, chop the snout off, & pierce it just as any rapier would. I'm a big straight blade guy. This blade was originally a military cut & thrust design in which was meant to build the gap of having a personal defense & elegant weapon, while also having that cutting ability. Personally, I'm a guy who likes options, I'd like to cut & lob limbs off, & pierce people, while having a beautiful European sword. Straight blades are the way to go IMHO. Hope you see what I'm talking about. ~Cheers

emlmm88 Are you a writer? HahaAlso I agree.

emlmm88 But what about katanas? And their 10,000 times folded nippon steel?

You have clearly never seen a proper schiavona or some smallswords.

When it is true, the epee with sharp point for Stoßmensur/ thrust Mensur was by german students called ,Pariser', which is today something rather different ;-).

The works of Fabris and Giganti were both originally published in 1606 though, and thus fall outside of Tom Leoni's Baroque Rapier definition. Meyer's rappier is more akin to what Matt refers to as a sidesword, also treated of by the various Bolognese masters.

Moricant This is correct, and the periodization terms co-opted by Mr. Leoni, which originated from studies of art and culture, don't match up perfectly with the origins and designs of the weapons. The problem lies in the fact that the word "rapier" in its various spellings, is used for swords which other masters called sideswords, as well as later weapons, and historical terminology doesn't give us a convenient delineation. The alternative of having everyone use the historical terminology requires constant uses extra contextual explanations such as "Meyer's rappier, which is essentially the same weapon as the spada da lato of the Bolognese tradition, and is a transitional weapon capable of severing hands, heads, and delivering other powerful cleaving strikes while being more optimized than other contemporary swords for thrust centric fencing..." is terribly inconvenient to have to say to every person you meet. Unfortunately the problem with Mr. Leoni's system is that it also has to be explained, and isn't perfectly historically accurate. Unfortunately, I've yet to see a better solution.

Interesting. Mussolini is usually considered a goofball but I guess he was a goofball who could hold his own in an edged weapons fight.

***** I guess that's very possible too.

***** In 1915 Mussolini was just a politician. Could still have been an arranged duel.

77jarim It looks like his fencing skills were one of the few things who stopped him to being humiliated by other more capable politicians back then, if someone pointed out how stupid his statements were he would challenge them to a duel, and back then winning the duel meant also winning the argument.

Thiago Kurovski It would be fun if politicians still settled their score with a duel instead of haunting news and talk shows.

Yes

Was just thinking this myself

You can cut with the smallsword, not effectively but you can. You can't with an epee

@@susamogus5693 : But the pointed/ sharpened tip can give a scatch(?) similar to ,Schmiss' in german academic fencing, when uncoveted skin is touched.

Could you imagine trying to line that up though? I don't think it woukd be very effective at cutting.

It is also known to shoot fireballs.

It's also known to be able to store and play popular music.

Glorious Nippon Steel! XD

lanner95 Groots nipples heal

It is also a little known fact that Jesus carried a Katana and as a carpenter used it to make his own cross.

Hi - they are both made by Hanwei. You can get them through many different sellers, such as Kult of Athena and The HEMA Shop.

Thank you very much:) I'm sorry I did not see that someone had already asked the same question in the comments about the rapier though

The usual simulator for modern smallsword training is an epee blade with a foil hilt. The foil hilt is the most similar to a smallsword hilt - the Italian foil hilt is even better if you can get one. Epee guards are way too massive and sabre hilts are just the wrong shape as well as being too big.

Thank you , I'll search for them in the local universities's fencing club.

abnunga Haha, one of the age-old questions. People are still undecided on the wrong and the right - in my view both are correct, for different time periods. Fact is that the term was applied to big twohanders at one time and basket-hilted one-handers at a later time.

Thanks! Good to know :)

abnunga it's an Anglicisation of claidheamh mor which just means 'big sword', so potentially it could apply to any sword that was big in comparison to other common swords of the time, hence the uncertainty.

Pretty much. :-)

Yep.

Are you still interested?

The Conquistadors didn't conquer with swords, they conquered with smallpox.

Morrion, breastplate and shinguards were the usual armor. But spanish troops also adopted the native-american cloth armor because its multi-layered differential hardness composition was good against arquebus and musket rounds. For melee weapons they had glaives, partizans, rapiers and small round shields. And no, smallpox had nothing to do with the conquest of Mexico. The first account of smallpox in mexico came with Panfilo de Narvaez who arrived to arrest Cortez two and a half years after Cortez took Veracruz, when the last remaining defense of mexico was Cuitlahuac and his personal army of a couple thousand mexica vs Cortez' small remaining forces (under 300), Narvaez's defectors and 30K tlaxcalteca warriors. Cortez conquered Mexico because the aztec were tirants who lost the favor of their neighbors, and because Tenochtitlan was a 2M people floating city completelly dependant on the currents of a couple rivers he could easily block. Smallpox as a biological weapon was used in the conquest of Peru and Chile, 6-10 years and millions of miles away from the fall of Tenochtitlan.

Are you asking what the name of the art these are supposed to be used with is called, or if there was some sort of martial art designed for European weapons such as these in the first place? If the first one, then that gets a bit complicated, since codified names like "Kenjutsu" or "Escrima" are basically just whatever term locals would use to refer to something along the lines of "So-and-so's art of defense" in the local language. (ex: "KenJUtsu" = "Way of [wielding] the sword", "Escrima" being short for "[way of using the] Stick", to "Fence" = "Art of [De]fence", etc.) Because of this, it's really hard to give you a consistent answer I could give you aside from "Fencing" with whatever desired master's name attached, unless you knew specifically what you wanted. :P (Not to be confused with Modern/Sport Fencing) If interested, try checking either Google or HEMA ("Historical European Martial Arts") circles by weapon type. There's all sorts of wonderful yet semi-obscure masters in the period of the rapier through that of the smallsword, as well as much earlier periods! :) If the latter, then of course! There's just as many equally-sophisticated martial arts native to Europe as there are from Asia. Most differences between arts are really just superfluous once you get past aesthetics and whatever ratio of striking & wrestling it prefers to emphasize. For example, the German longsword schools like the Liechtenauer-tradition tend to be incredibly similar to Japanese Kenjutsu styles. Hope that helped :)

Straight double edged (or sometimes triple edged) one handed swords from the renaissance period and forwards were generally used in the same method which is sometimes called "rapier fencing" as the rapier specializes in that style and it became known as that historically. The brits have their own ideas though or so it seems, focusing more on cuts than the italian tradition.

Google "estoc". Purely thrusting sword

Three possibilities: 1) Military Saber. 2) Smallsword, when being member of former spanish upper class. 3) Remaining ( non scraped) Rapiers.

Andrew Forrest The best thing is to train with a rapier school if possible. Neither the epee or foil is very similar to an actual rapier, and rapier fencing includes things like defending with the left hand (or dagger) and closing techniques. If there is no rapier school near you then continue sport fencing (epee or foil) and get a book on rapier fencing (such as those by Guy Windsor or Tom Leoni) and start working through them in your spare time. Time spend sport fencing is not a disadvantage and many of the princples are the same.

Much thanks!

Andrew Forrest Some HEMA communities also allow for the use of rapiers. It's a good match for the Longsword. However you should prepare yourself for the evil eye some people would give you the rapier... doesn't really get much love at first glance.

+Patrick Boyle : Thrusting would also lead to a lot of dead students :-D A student duel was (and is -- they are still conducted) is fought with a specialized weapons (_Schläger_). It's blunt (no point) but razor sharp (which actually produces _less_ of a scar) and may have either a basket or a bell guard.

maximuslaurius Yes, I forgot the mensurfechten tradition.

scholagladiatoria It's amazing how late it went on; there are pictures of young upper-class Prussian officers in WW2 with duelling scars!

scholagladiatoria I don´t think mensurfechten and duelling can be seen synonymously. While a duell is a result of a precedent offence mensurfechten is a traditional and reglemented melee still practiced today.

maximuslaurius It is still a thing.

germanvisitor2 wow, that's pretty cool..

Krystof Mraz I wouldn't say that because like everything it depends on what context we are talking about. There's no ultimate sword. In a one on one unarmored duel with swords about Longsword length and lower, the Rapier is arguably one of the best weapons you could use. But the Rapier is nearly useless against armor, not very good against multiple opponents, not very good against polearms and I definitely wouldn't use one on a horse. A rapier is specialized for that specific situation and it is technological achievement...but it doesn't beat all other swords depending upon the situation. It's sort of like a rock, paper scissors thing with weapons.