Yeah they need to nerf the speed of those torpedos or something

not to be that guy, but the gato is super slow underwater, but super fast on surface or at periscope depth.

​@@mindclaw915 You are super correct. Gato is a very fast submarine on the surface and periscope depth. Making Gato a pain to deal with. But underwater? Gato is slow as hell. another submarine can sub surveillance Gato and have Gato all sunk away.

If your in a tier 10 bb with 100k health and healing, a tier 10 sub with 14k health should be a issue.

@@rustysimonds5011 Funny you say that. I can Stern plug a Kremlin and Yamato players at ease as a submarine in U-4501. But I have SO MUCH TROUBLE with Vermont. I swear these slow ships can Dodge most of my torpedoes with some power evasion moves. I don't even shotgun and only fire one torp each 3 to 4 seconds. While getting 2 pings on Vermont! And still! He can evade like a boss. And return fire with ASW planes.

Tell us what game you developed?

Us standard battleships also have decent guns though. Not that I disagree with those complaining about how fast submarines move underwater.

​@@play030I'm just gonna leave this here: you don't need to know how to fly to know a helicopter shouldn't be crashed in a tree

Also WG: lets give these stupid submarines torpedoes with ranges above 10km so that cruisers and lower tier ships can't even reach them with the depth charges. WG totally butchered the balance with these things. They should just remove them or force them in a submarine-only PvE gamemode.

@@barrown1275 WeGreedy's arcade titles care nothing about actual history or realism .. as they point out themselves it's not a sim... but that's a lie, it's not a sim but it's not even an accurate arcade representation since they added those submarine shaped objects to the game. They don't fit the gameplay... thought I heard the devs say that multiple times during alpha testing... and most of involved agreed. except commerce department. Need more pixels to sell! Moar content, moar FOMO! That's all they care about.

Your the joke. It's a damn game.

And, for us bb players..... what exactly is the difference between a dd zooming by at 40+ kts undetected?

It is as fast as a Sea Wolf class of today....

@@Sjoerdwm1981 the difference is: sub has faster torps lol

The Sub can get within a range of 3 kilometers without being spotted, a dd cant

It did not help that your Gouden Leeuw did not get the ASW buff. Leaving your shop and Minotaur at the mercy of Submarines hentai your stern.

4501 was not capable of 27ktd underwater... that sort of speed wasn't possible until second generation teardrop hulls.

They should nerf sub speed across the board

@@baronofrhodes1185 Maybe it wasn't U-4501, but at least one class of German sub was capable of 26-27 knots submerged

Was it also capable of healing itself without going into drydock?

@@baronofrhodes1185 According to Wikipedia U-4501's class was supposed to be capable of 24 knots submerged. Of course it is wikipedia, so dont take it as 100% factual.

Yeah because tou just can't go foward to take less damage because oposition supporting sub.

Well like CVs, but even more extreme.

So DD too!!)))

@@bumblebity2902 Going forward and getting killed by the enemy team... what a great advice!

​@FdsJj dd can't dive tho.

I recommend playing a sub at tiers 8-10. This will align your thoughts with reality. The nerf was massive and completely changed gameplay for subs. If you are right you should get 75% WR quickly. You will actually find as a sub you have a very limited window for success, and if a CV is in your game: good luck.

I have to agree with @pure.... here, I have played numerous sub games pre nerf in random, would generally last till game ended or 15 or so mins in, scoring anywhere from 60 to 80k damage, after nerfs for subs and apparently your idea of buffs for subs I now rarely last past 10mins and as soon as I ping I have 5 or 6 asw planes all somehow hitting me whilst using my amazing new ultra unfair turning radius to try and avoid all the charges dropped ( somewhere between 6 and 10 ) even when I ping through a turn, it doesn't matter, I am either back at Port or might as well be cause now you have a dd on your butt faster than you coming up fr9m behind and dropping 12 to 16 depth.charges on your head. Your only defence is ping ( show where you are again to the dd and everyone else) for more asw planes coming your way and the dd about to dump on you. The gameplay has changed massively since sub nerfs, BBs now stay out the back, doing loops behind islands near the caps, gaps between islands allow them to see your ping, but ping and launch asw planes but does not allow the sub player to send torps and ping successfully and even if you do manage, by the time torps are near the target they hit the island and now you have 5 or 6 asw planes to deal with. The only way subs can do well is not use ping but use homing torps cause they are faster and longer range than dumbfired but less than 50% the damage than dumbfire torps. Even doing the above will only net you the same damage score as the majority will be evaded. After nerfs, my s bring went from 60 to 80k damaged to 40 maybe 50k damage, in a Lot of games I scored less than 35k and died within.5 to 10 mins. So the nerfs are real dude. I have always said, keep the nerfs the way they are now, make the last depth level on a sub as run silent depth, sub serv, hydro depth charges and asw drops do.nothing, but subs cant use there torps, ping targets or detect ships, all they do is get away at thier top underwater speed. Also, there is no reason a sub under water can't see a ship until its ontop of you, you should be able to spot at you range eg 10k or 12k except if you are running silent at lowest depth. You should also be able to spot a dd in smoke from underwater at their spotting distance as smoke wouldn't in reality affect visual detection underwater which currently exists in the game, that's not fair for sub players

Also in aislain mods? Found it...yes its there...thanks bro!

Isn’t that just straight up cheating ?. Might as well install a mod that have a lead indicator that aim the shot for you

@@faynk.6247 IDK. Don’t blame me. Modstation also have mod where you can tell enemy ship throttle. Modstation and Aslain are literally fine in WeeGee eyes. Even there is a mod for Dynamic Crosshair also adjusted depending on your shell based velocity which overall improve player’s accuracy. There’s also a mod where you can see your team Consumables and how many they have left. With a surface radar circle that tells you the radius and not rely on the Minimap. Oh and there’s also a mod tells you that if your teamate gets detected or not. Including torpedoes. Basically kinda like cheating but also it doesn’t. Because it doesn’t break the game. When I said there’s a body where it tells you subs on the minimap is based on how many times players ping as subs and it just update when your team or you can see the ping. It only shows you on Minimap but tbh, it only gives your rough idea where subs is heading. Which I think this should be a feature in Official Game, where it update subs location similar on how Hydrophone works and it just makes it a little Minimap spotting only. Besides, they are easy to be install and everyone can just download and use it for absolutely free.

@@tsuaririndoku I have to agree it's cheating, and yes you are to blame if you use such a mod or advertise it. Mods can be fun, and helpful for simple QoL improvements to your UI. But they should never give an advantage over those that don't use mods.

@@faynk.6247 Oh well, WOWs cheats when it makes this sub more capable than it really is in real-life.

They should remove them. Nasty and annoying mechanic. Pings should be a DD ability that locates subs.

FWIW homing torpedoes did exist in WW2. Germans and Americans used them with some success.

@@LoanwordEggcorn Yes but not like in the game!

@@R4ZORLIGHT The Germans did. They fired homing torpedoes from subs at surface ships, particularly wolf packs hunting Atlantic cargo convoys. The Americans dropped homing torpedoes from planes, but called them depth charges. They lied. They were homing torpedoes. And they were designed to hunt subs.

Hilarious. You want to remove pings from subs. What you don’t realise is that it is the PINGS that allow you to find subs. Sound logic there.

I can confirm, Sea Lord got that wrong

...worthless, As they should be.

Despise the Wag for putting them in the game, not the player for playing the same as designed.

Sub drivers usually talk smack...because they think they are actually "good" at the game.

@@barrybolton1396 you can say that about almost any ship in the game

@@drink15 difference is that those who play them know how broken and griefing they are so nah I will still and always despise the players who play them, scum in my opinion

@@donovandavis5961 Its a good thing opinion is not fact.

the game records them automatically, unless you have replays turned off

Not the one in the video. Max 20ish at that depth

@@drink15 thank you captain obvious, wasn't referring to that sub. The U 4501 is special after all and can do that 32 knots at depth, and cus its only got homing torps it can stay down their and still fire. But most tech tree subs can go like 28 to 30 ish knots at periscope depth.

@@jaywerner8415 Here is another obvious comment, mention the subs you are talking about next time and don't be salty when someone corrects you

If you hate subs this hard? The Maceau destroyer got the sonic speed. For the chase.

@@dominquedoty458 if sub player have more than 1 braincell he will sail to teammates

@@no1caers True. And more often than not... I get nitwit teammates...leaving me to sink...

DDs do the same

@@drink15no. DDs can be spotted easier by other ships with radar, hydro, planes, etc… it’s less agile, doesn’t have homing torps, and can’t escape as easily incoming shells by just going underwater. If you can’t understand that, I’m really wondering what kind of player you are because it’s not rocket science to understand how much subs are broken

@@chiracultrainstinct3d629 Yes DDs CAN be spotted by CVs, Radars, other DDs, but subs can also be spotted by friendly subs and there is always one on the same flank unless there is a sub div, though the same can be said for DDs, subs have their own form of radar to worry about, that 4 lines of tech tree ship have. Subs have homing torpedoes yes, but they need to give their position away to use those homing torpedoes, a torp DD never once has to give itself away, lets not also forget homing torpedoes do stop homing at a certain point and where they all group up, normally if you dodge one you've dodged them all. Now for the final elephant in the room, not every DD has the same concealment. A Khabba is never finding a Shima for example. So unless your flank has a DD with comparable stealth to the red DD. There isn't much that can be done, and as time goes on there are more and more large detect DDs being added, making that final point a lot more likely than not. I'm not saying subs don't play a part in stalling pushes, but DDs are far harder to counter and also matter far more. The raw data clearly shows that. Subs for all of their annoyances, are the weakest ship class in the game. Doesn't mean they can't still dev strike you, and that they can't be a major pain in the ass, but they have the lowest average damage and the lowest win rates.

@@chiracultrainstinct3d629 if you cant understand my response to his comment, you should stay off the internet. None of what you said was my point…

@@drink15 I have yet to encounter a DD that was sufficiently insurmountable as to shut down an entire flank singlehandedly, much less keep me personally, when playing a BB, from pushing. A submarine can achieve that, as demonstrated in this video and many others. Are there counters? sure. But they're insufficient for dealing with good players. And it all boils down to a simple flaw in WG's game design philosophy. They balance the game around the bottom 30%, rather than the top 30%. As a result, it's not difficult to do well in any given class provided you have a basic grasp of the mechanics, but it is also possible for the top players to create impossible situations that are immensely unpleasant for all other players involved, simply through the abuse of the balancing flaws. We see this with just about every class in the game. Subs: Highly manoeuvrable, to the point that no ship armed with deck-mounted ASW can get on top of them. For the weaker players this allows them to survive otherwise fatal mistakes, which is all well and good. But for the skilled players, it makes them virtually invincible by virtue of being able to change direction on the spot and get out of the way of any retaliation. The video demonstrates this well, but I've seen substantially better performances against substantially more competent teams. CVs: The only countermeasure against air strikes is AA. 75% or more of your AA damage is confined to flak. Flak can be dodged if you know how to play a CV. So weak CV players will occasionally dodge flak and get their drop in, meaning they can still inflict damage. All well and good. But a competent CV player can effectively ignore your AA entirely and strike you regardless of how many ships you have around you, unless their collective continuous damage is sufficient to wipe out the strike before the immunity period of the strike itself. CVs are also completely immune to detonations, almost totally immune to fires and floods, and have effectively unlimited range, meaning they can hide behind an island at the corner of the map and strike you without ever being exposed to danger. All in an effort to protect the weak CV players, while giving competent ones incredibly potent tools to survive. BBs: One word. Overmatch. The magical tool that negates all skilled armour usage. Means that weak players don't have to really know the armour layout of different ships to be effective. They just point and click and see big numbers if they lead well enough. But a competent player? Doesn't matter how good you are at the game. If a competent BB wants you dead and his guns are 431mm or larger, you're dead as a cruiser player. Your options are to go dark and run for your life, and hope that he's not faster than you. Which, btw, they often are. Cruisers and DDs have diversified into so many niches at this point it's difficult to point to a specific problematic feature. Perhaps the fact some DDs these days outgun cruisers in sheer DPM. Or the fact some cruisers can stealth radar while also being outrageously tanky and hard to dislodge from a position. Or the fact some DDs can use air strikes to inflict heavy damage on you even when not having line of sight. Or the fact some cruisers come with SAP which completely breaks the armour threshold balance for equivalent tier ships and achieving consistency not unlike the overmatch problem BBs have. To say nothing of the BBs that also have SAP. All of this is great for weaker players and means they're likely to last longer and be more consistent. But in the hands of a player who knows the mechanics and game balance well enough to abuse it? It isn't difficult to create situations that are literally impossible to counter without an equally lopsided gimmick. A better approach would be to balance the game around the skills of the upper half of the playerbase, and then implement tutorials, guides, and training missions that help the weaker players hone their abilities enough to be successful.

🤓🤓🤓says the sub main who can't use it correctly and gets mad when someone has any semblance of actually being able to counter submarines... if you complain so much about how "EASY" battleships are, why don't you try it yourself? let's see how the dispersion treats you

that's peak realism right there (and kudos for actually figuring that out)

Ship launched decoys: Destroyers and certain cruisers can have launchable decoys that bait acoustic torpedoes over to them if they are within the homing cone of the acoustic torpedoes. This mainly applies to my second alternate version of homing torps Also more DDs should have hydrophones or some passive commander skill gimmick for discount hydrophones. And more players should probably take torpedo lookout equipment

Hedgehog mortar equipment: For the trade of maybe sacrificing an AA battery or depending on the ship, a main gun. DDs can get Hedgehog mortars which would by pulling up the same UI as the ASW airstrike but you have only a forward firing cone and less range. But it will allow you to throw ASW mortars a variable distance ahead of the DD to attack a detected submarine. However the catch being those mortars have to hit the submarine directly like the irl Hedgehog. So its still required to get a good angle on the submarine before launching a spread of mortars. There will one exception to this gimmick. That being British DDs in higher tiers will get Squid launchers or the Limbo depth charge launchers, that for shorter firing range, can shoot these mortar depth charged and have them explode around the submarine like how rack rolled depth charges are

Periscope spotting: DDs be warned as this is a trigger warning. But subs should be able to spot all surface ships from periscope at their ship detection range. However the cap being at 8km. So basically a BB can't be spotted unless he is in that 8km zone and not obstructed from view. But a DD not in smoke will be spotted at its 6.1 to 5.6 km detection range. Why add this change? Well tons of subs irl, especially American subs have fought destroyers and won. Granted they had a limited window to do so. Being spotted at 5.6 km by a submarine only gives the submarine 2 km to launch an attack (to all my people who play submarines, you should know how tight 2 km is to make an accurate attack) but at least this will allow at least some combat against destroyers for submarine. Since all the DD has to do if he isn't just sitting in smoke is charge the direction where the torpedoes came from. On the general side, this will allow the ships on your team to have the first shots against an enemy DD capping a point. Making the submarine more valuable in the team by being a more effective reconnaissance boat, even if the submarine doesn't attack the destroyer. Allied subs can also protect battleships from DDs trying to sneak up on them.

Controllable deck guns: This is simple and doesn't require huge explanation. My favorite subs are Thrasher and I-56, soley for their controllable deck guns. Because being solely reliant on torpedoes isn't all that fun. But having a close quarters duel with a preferably low health light target or fighting for your life after losing battery power is kinda thrilling (at least to me but Im also a masochist in this game :> ). Sure subs even with controllable deck guns will still never win a fight with a DD unless that DD is on the verge of death. But we're here to try and have fun. Guns are fun, simple as that

these are all fantastic ideas! Nice to see some people actually thinking the sub problem through rather than just hating on subs all together. Also, I love the realistic bases of those ideas.

challenge accepted lol

You, me, and thousands more mate. I have an Arkansas Beta and the Gremyaschi, along with 40+ other gold ships, and when they rammmed subcancer in, uninstalled the game on the spot. I poke in for special events and what not, but as long as they keep subcancer in the game, my wallet stays OUT of the game. *SHAMEFUL* that people like SLM continue to defend what is the crux of this games slow death.

This is why reports don’t really matter. +1

And I always compliment them.

thanks man, appreciate it

I think PT boats would function very similarly to subs in game, with their great concealment and ability to simply run if they're about to be detected (although dds already do this so it wouldn't be a huge issue). I would love to see some PT boats!

Fr

Honestly cvs I don’t think are that bad God I’m gonna get some hate for that🙃

subs is why i completely stopped playing randoms, i only play brawls and rankeds here and there

CVs are worse, especially for torp boats.

@@logicalbrick5311 lol, I had that same sentiment, briefly. There is no comparison between subs and CVs - CVs passive spotting abilities and suite of automatic capabilities make that the most toxic class in the game. I have a unicorn WR in CVs while having an abysmal PR. I am a bad CV player who wins in them at a unicorn rate. Trash class.

They are coming?

If cv’s are staying how they are, I’m down for subs.

@@andrewjohnson5365 no they aren't

@JunkoXan Wanna bet? I still can mind them saying Legends will be different we won't be adding CVs lol.

@@andrewjohnson5365 CVs were expected, not subs.

thank you, appreciate it!

I picked it up (I was out of other coal ships and unique commanders), I think she only left port for a few asyms

@@FltCaptAlan thats my fear. As i am not really a sub enjoyer per se. still in some matchups it can be helpfull.

Most of the “Subs are OP” crap is from people who have never played subs enough to understand they are very difficult to play and excel in. Most sub players are absolutely inconsequential to the game’s outcome. 4501 takes a particular level of skill, and even in this video you can see how brain dead some of the high damage victims were being in their playstyles. That is what it takes to have a good sub game, and he still lost.

@@xPureNRG007x well, throwing games is something you will see in any type of ship. These days people arent really thinking, just clicking

No

S-189 is still playable.

I reverted that by thumbs up

@@fidelcastro4396as did i. He is earning a him more likes. He also watch the video and comment which counts as interaction.