ill join soon.........remember i have tyres to pay for:P 350 x 2 divided by 2 add in the travel then the heating cost of the tyre warmer then............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................ i hope your ok

Thanks Ray 🙌🏼🙌🏼

Thanks mate, just showing how it is in the trade

Thanks Glyn…

Thanks mate…. It’s a pain that’s for sure

Thanks mate…. Oh it will be

Thanks Jason

Thanks mate, yep I always have them on a timer aswell, with the pump set to low…. Never had an issue 👍🏼👍🏼

Thanks mate, yer it takes some working out

Cheers buddy

Thanks Chris…. Yes this one seems a little better, however I do seem to be up against the plasterers at the moment which isn’t great as they are just going at it with a large gang…. Will see how it pans out.

@@MJTiffPlumbing I hope all works out well for you, cheers 🍻👍👍

@@chrisholt2474 cheers mate

Thanks mate, great insight

Your a mechanical engineer not industrial plumber

Thanks Fred

Good morninng

Do you dpeak frensh ?

Vous êtes à londre?

Just showing😉

Thanks buddy

Nice one Mike…..you won’t go wrong with the snug team mate. I will have a word and see if I can sort you a little deal😉😉

@@MJTiffPlumbing thank you

Thanks Rob 👍🏼👍🏼🙌🏼

Thanks Mark 👍🏼👍🏼

Thanks mate, to be honest I prefer Polypipe when doing installs with plastic but it’s what he’s supplying

Thanks mate….👍🏼👍🏼

thank you lee. and ty you mj tiff. mj tiff did you get confirmation from speedfit its ok? saves me doing legwork.

I only use q&ev on new builds never had a problem with it I like the fact that you can't forget to do a joint with it

Whats the issue with secondary loop being in barrier pipe/pex/mlcp? I'm looking to start a self build and require one. How do you manage lengths of copper going through metal webbed posi joists?

I always use q&e, least I know there's not going to be any leaks👍

Asbestos 😮😮

Builder is supplying all the materials on this job mate 👍🏼👍🏼

Hahahaa….. so true

👍🏼👍🏼

Good man 👍🏼👍🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼

Awesome Wayne hope your doing well buddy👍

@@tirvplumbing Thank you 🙏

Thanks mate

Thanks buddy

So many different views on it, from what I understand it’s to go with corrosion if on continuously…. However I’ve always had my secondary returns on a timer or PIR system so never had an issue even when done in plastic…

Thanks mate 👍🏼👍🏼

Yea mate, bronze pump and double check valve

Thanks buddy 👍🏼👍🏼…. Most people like it outside the shower nowadays

👍🏼👍🏼 We are all always learning

I attended many jobs, especially in care homes with leaks on the secondary caused by plastic fittings. The fittings and pipe ends seem to totally degrade and even the manufacturers can't explain why, with what iv experienced, I would now be worried not using copper. All manufacturers tell you not to use plastic etc. Also they all tell you that this was brought in as a result of a competitors fitting failure and not theres lol

Thanks Dave…… I’ve not used a bending spring for 25years mate…. Infact I had forgot about them till you said. I’m sure people do still use them

Yes! When I started with my dad in the 70's, we had nothing else...... Though we often had to anneal the 22mm with heat otherwise the wall would collapse....Bending 22mm around your kneecaps is definitely a young mans game.... Still use a 15mm spring though!

In fact that's got me thinking about when working on (not very old) systems in those days that had 3/4" imperial pipe.... which was close..... but not close enough.... and we had to use couplings that where 3/4" one end and 22mm, the other.........

👍🏼👍🏼

To be honest, the guy who messaged is a fairly well known plumber in the social scene….

@@MJTiffPlumbing well i dont even know,why he spent his time to say things like that...you can do a job with at least 50 different ways,but every plumber do it his way...i am 25 years on the trade and i hear same things...i dont even bother,i say just '"yes"' lol

You are correct bud, you can’t use speedfit, hep none of them it’s in manufactures literature. You have to pipe the whole dhw supply from source and back again in copper, I believe there a bs number it refers to but I can’t remember it. I don’t think you can even get around it by setting it up on a timer but I’m not 100% sure on that or even if your public liability is void if a problem ever occurred.

@@philipjones4890 thats a nightmare when fitting copper to posi joists each 400/600 centre would need cut and straight coupled?

Just got to get on with it mate 👍🏼👍🏼, confidence comes with time served

Yep…. Spirals constantly mate

Thanks Paul, yep I’ve never had an issue either 👍🏼👍🏼

In the last couple of years I've been doing some work in the care sector refurbishing bathrooms etc and one of the issues that cropped up was the hot water loop that dropped into each bathroom was deteriorating, I'd never seen anything like it before. Each loop was in hep and on a permanent circulation pump, no timer. I called Hep/ Wavin and the guy told me that not only was Hep not meant for this application but all plastics were unsuitable and this was very slowly being written into the regs or maybe manufacturers small print, I can't remember the exact location. Apparently the issue is with the water being constantly replenished with oxygenated water as opposed to a heating system where the oxygen would have been worked out of the system one way or another. Based on this info using a copper return is pointless if the 'flow' pipework is plastic as it's one and the same. On a slightly different note the energy cost of running a pump permanently is considerable so as was mentioned and I'd say in all the points I've made the timer is the essential element in the system. I have no technical data to back anything up it's just what I've seen and what I've been told and it seems it's not uncommon at least in the use of Hep, I also believe the manufacturers guarantee is null and void as it's use is incorrectly spec'd

Thanks mate…. I use Polypipe but on this job the builder is supplying everything and it’s speedfit

Thanks mate

@@MJTiffPlumbing like your channel mate

Yer I have heard people are stopping using them for energy reasons. This will be on a timer 👍🏼👍🏼

so the pir sensors see if theres someone in the house? ty. would work well on a 5 star rental.

This secondary return is on a timer and will pump at set times.

The hot water is coming from the hot tank, it's not constantly being heated by the boiler (you couldn't use a secondary return on a combi boiler)

Nice to know I’m not the only one… I’ve never had an issue in all the years

Horrid stuff mate

Not sure to be completely honest, I’ve never had any issues doing it this way👍🏼

Just what the builder supplied mate

Yer 1st fixing a job this big is a lot quicker in plastic, but I always use copper anywhere where you will see it… always do it that way

No advantages, it’s just what was fitted on the main feeds, then the return in copper. Builder supplied all the materials etc

I Always fit a timer on these systems or a PIR in the bathrooms 👍🏼👍🏼

Thanks mate

🤣🤣…. Thanks mate🙌🏼

Yes mate, another big job…… a lot of work and not quite as organised as the barn

MLCP no doubt can handle it

MLCP can, all other pipe that falls under BS7291 can't (the likes of speed fit and HEP)

@@MegaBambooboy thanks for the information. I was thinking mlcp was safe to use on secondary return.

@@Martin-pr6ps keep in mind it'll need to be used on both hot and secondary return.

@@MegaBambooboy spot on

Just a 7day programmable timer or standard PIR in the bathrooms

@@MJTiffPlumbing thanks - presumably a PIR with a set say 15 min over run. Have you ever fitted both timer and PIR? My bathroom will get occasional use so timer mainly for 'legionella' 15 min cycle every 12 hours or so. Any chance you can tell me which brand PIRs you use? Enjoying your vids, well done.

To be honest the sparky on the jobs I’ve fitted it always sort them. But an overrun and cycle would be perfect.

👍🏼👍🏼

Yep this is going to be on a timer, I always have them fitted onto timers so it’s not “continuous” 👍🏼👍🏼

Have you got The Knowledge Pete

Thanks Kev….. Every good tradesman is very busy everywhere at the moment, I’m pushing myself slightly with this job especially when I turned up this week and they were all over the job….

Fantastic content btw and enjoy your videos

I’ve never had an issue to be honest

Regs state that as long as the 2ndry return pump is on a timer it can be all run in plastic, always has to be lagged either way timed or constant

@@sarahhelen9863 , yes quite true but why can they honour boiler primary pipework (apart from the obvious first couple of meters) which would run hotter than a hot return in most domestic cases, I personally have never run a secondary return in anything other than copper so far but if it was necessary to run one in plastic I wouldn't be that worried to do it

Ground source/air source renewables company are in to do that mate

Think it’s £3m if finished to how it’s spec’d!!!! It’s in a very high end area with a few celebs about….. Chris Eubank is a few doors up!!!

Thanks buddy 👍🏼👍🏼

Thanks Chris 👍🏼👍🏼

Yep

No mate, this is a new job that I’ve just started on

To do with consistently running

@@MJTiffPlumbing But doesn't that also apply to the primary hot?

What if it’s not continuous….

@@MJTiffPlumbing if you add PIRs and a timer it's still a kind of continuous hot water loop 🤷‍♂️. Just pony up for a press kit and a set of U jaws and join the mlcp massive. It's awesome the speed of push with the neatness of copper. You'll love it 🤘

Really need to have a go with the press fit stuff

I emailed JG speedfit to discuss this. They told me as per their specification that even on a timer all the hot would need to be soldered copper pipe. I can send you this if you like? It may fail may take 20 years though. Customer won't be happy as soldered copper would last 70 years.

Indeed mate😉

Thanks for watching mate, builder supplied the Speedfit, I don’t use it when supplying materials

Thanks mate…. I’ve had a few jobs come in from YT… but to be honest I’m always busy

🤣🤣🤣🤣….. I know exactly what you mean 🤣

The whole of the 15mm return is in copper, not part of it👍🏼

@@MJTiffPlumbing I get that, I just don’t get why you bothered to run the return leg of it in copper but the out leg in 22mm plastic.

As said, that’s how I’ve always done it with no issues. First time I’ve ever had someone say the main hot run should be in copper aswell as the return loop.

@@MJTiffPlumbing Plastic pipe is tested to BS 7291 Class S, it’s not certified for use in continentally (or time/temperature controlled) re-circulating systems. If you read the MI’s it will tell you this. Not sure why you think the return pipe would need to be copper but not the flow?

🤣🤣

There is a question with this actual thing, and some people are now longer fitting secondary circuits

Indeed

DHC