Secret to an open crumb loaf

  Рет қаралды 5,907

ambergrainbaking

ambergrainbaking

3 жыл бұрын

One of the most frequently asked questions I receive is, "How do I get an open crumb in my bread?" This video shares some processes I employ that hopefully will be helpful to you.
Follow at ambergrainbaking

Пікірлер: 50
@LeDebutDeLaSuite
@LeDebutDeLaSuite 2 жыл бұрын
My goodness that dough transformation. Thank you, learning more and more
@vincelieu4425
@vincelieu4425 3 жыл бұрын
One of the best open crumb baguettes I have seen on YT. Thanks for sharing all the dough making tips.
@ambergrainbaking
@ambergrainbaking 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the positive feedback, Vince! Should you be willing to follow me on Instagram (kramerthebaker), that would be most appreciated.
@frez777
@frez777 Жыл бұрын
Great tips! I learned a ton right here!
@lorakeverik9008
@lorakeverik9008 2 жыл бұрын
Thank You!
@A.L-ck9ov
@A.L-ck9ov 6 ай бұрын
Hi. How long would you recommend mixing the dough after completing the 3 hour autolyse? Wonderful information, appreciate it a lot! Thanks in advance, have a great weekend.
@BashLoGiudice
@BashLoGiudice 3 жыл бұрын
Can I get an open crumb yeast recipe?
@shermainemow3379
@shermainemow3379 2 жыл бұрын
i want your bread knife! it’s so sharp
@Whicheverworks
@Whicheverworks 2 жыл бұрын
Wonderful video ! Thanks :) I still have not tried the long autolyse, but anyway want to ask if this also have a good effect on the crust ? I do not get this crispy crust wether I bake wit steam in an open oven or dutch oven removing the lid the last 10-20 minutes. I usually use 80% hydration.
@ambergrainbaking
@ambergrainbaking 2 жыл бұрын
Hi Terje. Thank you for your question. There are many factors that affect crust, e.g. salt, fermentation, acidification, ingredients, etc. Steam also greatly impacts crust, especially its texture. It is possible your loaves are exposed too long to steam at the beginning of your bake. Steam’s function is to keep the surface of the dough supple so the loaf can rise. Without steam, the crust will form too quickly and block the loaf from rising. As a general rule (particularly with wheat-based loaves), steam only until the crust starts to brown. Once this happens, the crust has begun to form and the steam is no longer serving its purpose. The longer the crust remains exposed to steam beyond this point, the thicker and chewier it can become. In a commercial deck oven environment, it is more effective to open the flue (for the remainder of the bake) and to slightly open the door (for the first two minutes of opening the flue) to remove steam fully from the chamber. Also, slightly keeping the door ajar during the last 2-3 minutes of the bake helps crisper the crust. In direct response to your question, I recommend experimenting removing the lid of your Dutch oven sooner in a controlled manner until you hit the sweet spot and get the thinner, crispier crust you desire. Please let me know how it works!
@Whicheverworks
@Whicheverworks 2 жыл бұрын
@@ambergrainbaking Thanks ! I will follow yur suggestions, and come back with some "results". Takes a little time since my kitchen is in a "rehab", but hopefully up and going sometime next week. 8 weeks without is not a good thing :-0
@gb57hevy3
@gb57hevy3 2 жыл бұрын
@@ambergrainbaking I've been asking myself the crust question. I believe I found a gem of an answer to that question. Great video, too!
@AdamSmith-de4xd
@AdamSmith-de4xd 2 жыл бұрын
Really interesting information, once again! The long autolyse is something I'm going to try with my next bake. This is amazingly helpful supplement to the information I've seen so far (mostly Hamelman, in terms of autolyse info.) Would you ever consider using the autolyse technique in breads with much higher rye levels (20 - 40%)? If not, I'd be curious to hear about your recommendations for bulk fermentation and loaf development on ryes built along the lines of your 2 stage detmolder example.
@ambergrainbaking
@ambergrainbaking 2 жыл бұрын
Hi Adam. Thanks for watching the videos. As the percentage of rye increases and wheat decreases, the nature and processing of the dough changes immensely. In general - mixing becomes slower and longer; bulk fermentation is shorter and warmer; baking temps start higher and end lower. The rye section of Hamelman's Bread offers a solid overview of the basics. Beyond that there is lots of German language literature on rye bread (i.e. 50-100% rye) covering sourdough feeding methods (Detmolder, Mohnheimer, Berliner), acidification tables, quell/brueh/kochstueck, etc. I find rye both the most challenging and the most rewarding. Personally rye is my favorite bread to bake and eat!
@ambergrainbaking
@ambergrainbaking 2 жыл бұрын
I didn't really answer your specific questions, so... #1) as % of rye increases, autolse becomes less effective. This is because the gas trapping substance in rye is not gluten, but a mucous-like by-product of pentosans (a highly water-absorbant polysaccharide) #2) please watch my Detmoder 2 video. Hamelman's book offers realistic guidelines on temp/bulk/proof based on % of rye
@AdamSmith-de4xd
@AdamSmith-de4xd 2 жыл бұрын
@@ambergrainbakingThanks! Did a little six mini-baguette test bake yesterday. The long autolyse worked beautifully!
@AdamSmith-de4xd
@AdamSmith-de4xd 2 жыл бұрын
Will re-read Hamelman on the rye side. I've been making some fairly light ryes that I like for a long time. My higher rye content breads are a lot less consistent, would like to bring them into much better control.
@ambergrainbaking
@ambergrainbaking 2 жыл бұрын
@@AdamSmith-de4xd Hi Adam. Thanks for the feedback. I’m happy the extended autolyse had a positive effect on the crumb structure of your baguettes. I’ve been thinking a lot about our (the baking community, including myself) obsession with open crumb and just wanted to share some thoughts. Open crumb can be a positive attribute in some scenarios (e.g. baguette) and a negative attribute in others (e.g. sandwich loaf and rye). I hope that we are not losing our focus on the remaining quality characteristics of good bread - taste (do we want a second bite?), crust (does the crust shatter when I cut or bite into it?), crumb (is it moist and chewy?), texture (is there contrast between the crust and crumb), scent (is it pleasing and complex?), nutritious (are the ingredients simple and wholesome?), aesthetic (is the loaf beautiful to the eye?). Autolyse is just a tool in the toolbox. But there are so many other factors that can effect the crumb structure. #1) it is unrealistic to expect whole grain breads - endosperm, bran, and germ - to have as open a crumb structure as breads made with all-purpose flour - endosperm only. #2) the degree of gluten development especially at the mixing and early bulk fermentation stages. #3) the dough development process especially during bulk fermentation. This is determined in great part by timing and method of stretch and folds as well as the degree to which we allow the dough to accumulate CO2. #4) handling of the dough during shaping Finally, the employment of autolyse is tactile and experiential. By this I mean, we bakers can be making constant assessments of the dough’s extensibility and elasticity when using autolyse. Does the dough feel 50% extensible and 50% elastic, or 60%/40% or 70%/30%? At what ratio did it achieve the desired results? And over time, bake after bake, practicing these assessments. If you made it to this point, thank you for reading and “listening”. I’d love to hear your (and others’) thoughts. Stephen
@barrychambers4047
@barrychambers4047 3 жыл бұрын
Really nice looking! Do you use a stiff, or liquid, starter, please? Thanks.
@barrychambers4047
@barrychambers4047 3 жыл бұрын
Scratch that question, Stephen. I got it, you use both! Thanks!
@ambergrainbaking
@ambergrainbaking 3 жыл бұрын
Hi Barry. Thank you. For baguettes I personally use a liquid starter.
@botolminumbotolminum140
@botolminumbotolminum140 3 жыл бұрын
hi, what are your thoughts on: 1. the degree of the mixing of the dough. for example, the smoother we mix the dough, the more it pass windowpane test, the denser the crumb, meanwhile the lighter we mix the dough, barely pass the windowpane test, the more open crumb it gets. 2. the type if flour we use. I often heard someone said the higher the gluten content of the flour the denser the crumb will be. its like we'll have a higher chance getting open crumb using AP flour than bread flour. thank you for sharing.
@ambergrainbaking
@ambergrainbaking 2 жыл бұрын
Interesting questions. In general I prefer to slightly undermix and further develop dough strength with a couple stretch and folds during bulk fermentation. Less mechanical mixing, more flavor. S&F's also re-distribute heat evenly in the dough mass helping along fermentation. Quality vs quantity of gluten. AP flours (eg KA Gallahad) milled from hard red winter wheats have lower protein content but better quality for hearth style breads. HG flours (KA Lancelot) milled from spring wheats yield higher protein content but lesser quality for hearth loaves, and maybe better for smaller items such as bagels or as a supplement to a predominantly rye flour dough.
@ambergrainbaking
@ambergrainbaking 2 жыл бұрын
I'd like to add it would be a very interesting experiment to make two pain au levain doughs, one with AP, the other with HG. I suspect the HG loaf will be stronger and more difficult to shape, but an extended autolyze might help soften the dough?
@rodolfoantoniassi4643
@rodolfoantoniassi4643 2 жыл бұрын
I've noticed some related findings about your comment #1 and my loafs. When I knead the dough by using a stand mixer machine till the gluten network is completely developed and an incredible window pane is achieved (till the dough releases the bowl of the mixer), the dough seems less elastic and the final crumb tends to have smaller holes and more chewy texture, whereas using the hand kneading approach, the dough is more elastic and the crumb is more open and less chewy. I'd like to know if someone has similar characteristics here...
@rodolfoantoniassi4643
@rodolfoantoniassi4643 2 жыл бұрын
So I'm wondering if the stand mixer is really worth using...
@ambergrainbaking
@ambergrainbaking 2 жыл бұрын
@@rodolfoantoniassi4643 Good points! I also feel mixing small batch doughs by hand (especially in a home baking environment) is a great way to learn the tactile aspects of dough development.
@gogothegogo
@gogothegogo 3 жыл бұрын
This is very interesting, a first time I hear someone relating open crumb with autolysis alone, and no biga/poolish/starter. I have a question. I want to use baker's (fresh) yeast, and no starters. Usually I mix everything in, RT bulk fermentation with stretch-and-fold for ~2h, fridge for 12-24h, final proofing for about 2h, and bake. I get great bread, tasty, crumb is ok, but not nicely open as yours from the video. Os, if I understand right, my forst bulk fermentation happening in paralel with autolysis is a main problem here? Gasses escape before gluten network form? Gluten does form near the end o first RT bulk fermentation, but is that already too late for a good open crumb? So, would the solution be: 1) mix flour and 90% water, and leave it for 2-3h to autolese 2) mix in fresh yeast (deluted in 10% water) and salt 3) RT bulk ferment for 2h with stretch-and-fold 4) refrigerate for 12-24h 5) fonal proof 2h 6) bake ? I can experiment myself, and I will, but an advice from professional can speed up the learning process significantly. Thanks! :)
@ambergrainbaking
@ambergrainbaking 3 жыл бұрын
Hi Gordan, Thank you for your question. I'd like to clear up any possible misunderstandings of the process outlined in the video. 1) Autolyze of flour and water for two hours 2) Add/mix in salt and preferment, e.g. poolish, biga, sourdough sponge 3) bulk fermentation 4) divide and shape 5) proof either room temp or retard 5) bake I recommend using a preferment, which adds both flavor and shelf-life to in comparison to breads made with straight dough. There are many paths to the same goal. For example, some add the preferment in the autolyze stage. This works well, particularly if the preferment is a small percentage. The important thing to remember is to leave salt out of autolyzed dough. Salt is hydroscopic (meaning it absorbs water) and will hinder protease enzymatic activity, which is the primary influencer for obtaining a more extensible than elastic dough. Please let me know how your experiment works out! Regards, Stephen www.ambergrainbaking.com
@vjgarozzo
@vjgarozzo 2 жыл бұрын
@@ambergrainbaking Just found your channel. Great info. After the autolyse, when adding the salt, how will the salt melt/get absorb without any additional water?? Are we just relying on the dough hydration and kneading process? Thanks.
@ambergrainbaking
@ambergrainbaking 2 жыл бұрын
@@vjgarozzo One can withhold some of the water to add with the salt. I either sprinkle it on top either just after mixing the autolysed dough or just before mixing the final dough. In either case, non-iodized fine grain salt is preferred.
@ToxopIasmosis
@ToxopIasmosis 3 жыл бұрын
what was the hydration for the baguette?
@ambergrainbaking
@ambergrainbaking 3 жыл бұрын
70%
@rodneylong728
@rodneylong728 3 жыл бұрын
What is the baker's percentages for your baguette?
@ambergrainbaking
@ambergrainbaking 3 жыл бұрын
@@rodneylong728 flour@100%, water@70%, salt@1.8%
@fishoil2158
@fishoil2158 Жыл бұрын
I am shocked~!! 305 Subscribers? In one short vid you put all the magical mystery right on the table. Autolyse Hydration soaking whatever the term you just spilled the beans. Then you spilled the other beans when you said you do S&F when the dough has relaxed and spread out. You didn't say how it is that you know the dough needs no more S&F and is ready to go the final phase of the bulk ferment, or percent of hydration. I watched a Vietnamese, French-Trained Baker making baguettes, in the Nam. He didn't do S&F. He rolled the dough out thin and very forcefully. He was doing production by hand so speed was of the essence. The crumb of his loaves was light airy & very open. What I did not see was his autolyse.
@thatisartnotpffft6368
@thatisartnotpffft6368 2 жыл бұрын
I think there is too much bran in my flour to get a crumb with holes that big, although maybe I could if using a greater percent of water. I only use 70% by weight water, so my dough is not as fluid as on this video. I get nice round high loaves thankfully, so that part is good, but would like at least slightly larger holes. Could you suggest something plz? By the way I have tried using more water and that only flattened out my loaves.
@ambergrainbaking
@ambergrainbaking 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for your question. Bran absorbs a lot of water, which is why we generally hydrate whole grain loaves more than non-whole grain loaves, i.e. all purpose flour milled only from the endosperm part of the berry). Bran also has a cutting effect on gluten when mixing. In response to your question, I recommend two things - autolyse and higher hydration using bassinage. A 30-60 minute autolyse will give the bran a chance to hydrate and soften before the more aggressive second speed mix. Also try increasing your recipe’s hydration by 5-10%, but add that additional 5-10% slowly toward the end of your second speed mix. This technique called “bassinage” promotes gluten development during the first half, and increased hydration during the second half of second speed mix.
@thatisartnotpffft6368
@thatisartnotpffft6368 2 жыл бұрын
@@ambergrainbaking This is a bit complicated, but I will study this over and give it a go. Thanks much for the reply. Much appreciate this! A way I have found to get the bran back in after sifting it out is to sprinkle the bran on top of the white flour dough part, after rolling it out flat, and then roll it up. Been getting some very cool loaves that rise high, and they are marbled with the bran. Weird but it's working. Still going to try your suggestion. Tkx again!
@thatisartnotpffft6368
@thatisartnotpffft6368 2 жыл бұрын
Hard pressed to find what "speed mix" is, but I'll assume you mean the time to make my bread from beginning to end, as I am inclined to produce a loaf the next day rather than wait for the dough to cure in the fridge too long. I searched for bread making and what "speed mix" means, but all the recipes come up and kind of mask the info I'm looking for. Ya there are a few things that even google isn't great at. On reading over your suggestion again, it seems like I could pull this off quite easily. Thank you again very much!👍
@ambergrainbaking
@ambergrainbaking 2 жыл бұрын
@@thatisartnotpffft6368 commercial spiral mixers usually have two speeds - first speed (slow) and second speed (fast). RPMs of second speed are about 2x that of first speed. "First speed mix" means mixing the dough on the slower first speed setting. "Second speed mix" means mixing the dough on the faster second speed setting.
@DANVIIL
@DANVIIL 2 жыл бұрын
What is the minimum % water that I can add for the autolyse? I'm concerned that my mixer (Ankarshrum) will tear all of the gluten that I build up during autolyse and then I add the salt and the levain. This could be something that I'll just have to try. Can I get away with adding only 50% of the water in a 70% hydration loaf?
@ambergrainbaking
@ambergrainbaking 2 жыл бұрын
This depends on the type of flour, % of prefermented flour and preferment type. You are correct, it will be more difficult to hydrate the flour with less water, will also be difficult to add the levain and salt to the stiffer dough, and autolyse will be less effective as protease enzymes are more active in a wet environment. With lower hydration loaves, one has the option to include the levain (but not the salt) as part of the autolyse.
@ambergrainbaking
@ambergrainbaking 2 жыл бұрын
Sorry, didn't exactly address your question. 50% hydration of autolyzed dough is too low (will require too much mixing resulting in mechanical gluten development, and too little protease activity which favors wet environment). Some general guidelines: I would consider autolyzing doughs >65% hydration. Less than that you're moving into roll/bun territory. Doughs 65-75% hydration, autolyse with levain. Doughs >75% hydration, autolyse without levain. I hope this is helpful.
@DANVIIL
@DANVIIL 2 жыл бұрын
@@ambergrainbaking Very helpful! I hope to be back in PA to visit in March and will head up to Boyertown to buy some of your beautiful bread, etc. Thanks!
@ShreerockzMr
@ShreerockzMr 3 жыл бұрын
Can't we make open crumb bread without sourdough culture?
@ambergrainbaking
@ambergrainbaking 3 жыл бұрын
Yes, of course. The "secret" has nothing to do about sourdough culture. It has to do about the relationship between elasticity and extensibility using autolyze.
@ShreerockzMr
@ShreerockzMr 3 жыл бұрын
@@ambergrainbaking Thank you so much Chef!!🙏🏽
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