"Seedless Flowers": A Conversation with Andrei Georgescu on Materialist Theories of Creativity

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5 ай бұрын

You can find some excellent video essays on Artiexus' KZfaq Channel, including an interview with me: @Artiexus
⁠ / @artiexus⁠
Andrei's article, the jumping-off point for this conversation: ⁠andreigeorgescu.ca/seedless-f...
Perhaps one of the best Untimely Reflections yet! Andrei Georgescu is an old friend of the show. He's a writer, a graphic designer, and a podcaster. A few months ago, he published an essay called, "Seedless Flowers: Artificial Intelligence and Creativity Fetishism", in which he analyzes the public reaction to art created by artificial intelligence, and the popular prejudices about creativity. Artists tend to believe that creativity is something which has to come from a being with a soul, treating it as a magical happening that is somehow beyond the material reality. A.I. art challenges that viewpoint, demonstrating the possibility of creativity coming from a collection of metal and wires. We discuss the "ugly duckling" theory of art, in which we value the effort that went into the piece over the final product or the quality of the piece. Such ideas compel us to dismiss beautiful works that were produced or aided by artificial intelligence, while holding up sub-par works as 'true art'. Our conversation about art takes us into my theories about art as communication, the origins of linguistic communication, the possibility of mapping the logical structures of languages. Towards the end of the episode, we take a look at the passage of Nietzsche's from The Gay Science, entitled, "The Genius of the Species", and argue over the importance of consciousness.
Episode art: Prayer by Andrei Georgescu

Пікірлер: 43

@eric.aaron.castro 5 ай бұрын

“My pencil and I are more clever than I.” ― David Deutsch, The Beginning of Infinity: Explanations That Transform the World

@michaelknight4041 5 ай бұрын

I Think its the word "like" that's doing all the heavy lifting.

@Heightofacloud 5 ай бұрын

Yay a Romanian person interview. I can't wait to listen.

@martinrea8548 5 ай бұрын

First! Happy new year, Keegan 👍

@michaelknight4041 5 ай бұрын

Scarcity is one of the drivers of golds value, now that Scarcity is probably somewhat driven by the hoarding of it, but it is intrinsically valuable for its uses in say....electrical, electronics and many other technical applications.

@ZM-dm3jg 5 ай бұрын

Interestingly, regardless of the substantial differences in practical utility, most elements such as gold, copper, silver, have price ratios that correspond almost precisely to their relative crustal abundance

@michaelknight4041 5 ай бұрын

@@ZM-dm3jg that is interesting 🤔

@michaelknight4041 5 ай бұрын

McCartney probably wishes he could have just programed the others parts back in the day lol

@JeffHanauer 5 ай бұрын

ART IS DEAD, AND WE KILLED IT....THE MUDERER OF ALL MUDERERS.

@Dino_Medici 23 күн бұрын

Haha the best

@bogusbladegameing4897 5 ай бұрын

Whos the wombat nexus, chicken cranium?

@Brooder85 5 ай бұрын

AI art is incredibly creepy, psychotic, and ugly...just sayin.

@bobsinclair8990 5 ай бұрын

AI trained with human data is a mirror and many don't like what they see.

@badabing3391 4 ай бұрын

how is it psychotic?

@virtue_signal_ 5 ай бұрын

Too many filler words to enjoy but his ideas are interesting .

@DiziCone 5 ай бұрын

What are you talking about? Cause they say “like” a lot? Who cares

@hammerdureason8926 4 ай бұрын

a.i. is how i spell yuck

@ahobimo732 5 ай бұрын

I think the fetishization of creativity is at the core of whatever it is we mean by the word "art". The concept of authorship is nowhere near coherent. At the granular, cause-and-effect level, it's impossible to separate the countless tiny influences, materials and events that culminate in an artwork. We don't celebrate the people who prepared Picasso's meals, or wove Van Gogh's canvas. Is an "artist" using an LLM so very different from the guy who made Beethoven's piano?

@user-jr5vy2bg5q 5 ай бұрын

It would be a misnomer to dismiss and write off the many people that made the fame of those great men possible.

@ahobimo732 5 ай бұрын

@@user-jr5vy2bg5q I didn't say that artistic genius doesn't exist, or that it isn't worth celebrating. I believe that it does and it is. I made the observation that our understanding of art depends on abstractions that are far more complex and convoluted than we typically acknowledge. The proliferation of AI software may force us to re-examine some of this complexity.

@user-jr5vy2bg5q 5 ай бұрын

@@ahobimo732 reread what I said. I didn't dismiss the phenomena of genius, but that it doesn't come out of a vacuum.

@Anhedonxia 5 ай бұрын

I get the sense that you are essentially trying to equate unequal things. An LLM-using artist will still be different from an AI-free artist. It would simply be a different category just like oil painting and collage art etc... It doesn't necessarily warrant the deconstruction of the concept of authorship and creativity. But imo the more hands-on, the more creative. The more intention the more choice the more creative. This is a more antiquated view I know, But I think shortcuts like these will necessarily cost us something. LLM will significantly reduce intention and choice by default. Because let's face it it's just a ready-made art machine. Nothing new here its just implications of postmodernity and hyper-modernity. Anyway I feel like the market will differentiate and incorporate both art categories.

@michaelknight4041 5 ай бұрын

So many times when I've came up with a song idea, or a melodic part like a solo for someone else's song there is a feeling that the idea "comes" from ...somewhere, but I don't really know where. In a sense I created it but in another sense it was sort of sent to me. In fact it seems that to me the better the idea the more prominent that sense of it coming from somewhere else is. And if you subscribe to the collective conscious idea then who's to say that "idea" couldn't have been sent to anyone and I just happened to be the one setting there when it showed up. I like feeling like I thought of a good idea but who really knows where they come from not to mention the concept of influences. Creativity is a phenomenon.

@carlyellison8498 5 ай бұрын

Too many guitars and computers out there. Needs to be a crackdown.

@michaelknight4041 5 ай бұрын

Send me your guitars. I'll get em off the streets!🎸

@rickk4990 5 ай бұрын

and cameras

@rickk4990 5 ай бұрын

and synthesizers, you don't even have to have musical skill to play synths.

@EdvinG 5 ай бұрын

Humans who augment their minds with AI will become the first true Ubermensch

@rickk4990 5 ай бұрын

@EdvinG 5 ай бұрын

@@rickk4990 yes

@Kennyack511 Ай бұрын

how so, they let the ai decide things over them

@EdvinG Ай бұрын

@@Kennyack511the ai is just a tool that’s like saying you let your smartphone decide things or you let the internet decide things. the ai will make you profoundly more intelligent so YOU cna make better decisions

@EdvinG Ай бұрын

@@Kennyack511 the ai doesnt decide anything, it gives the human more intelligence so they can make better decisions