Shaw would make a great politician with his ability to say absolutely nothing while endlessly talking.

PSR is neither Precision, Scheduled, nor Railroading. The Cult of Harrison is right up there with Scientology.

In my opinion, while doing away with PSR would help in general, it doesn't prevent what caused the accident. Only proper maintenance of rolling stock and enforcing inspection requirements before a train can set off will prevent a repeat.

I bet all the “old heads” are laughing their asses off, they knew their trade and knew it well.

Time after time, corporate America chooses profit over people and safety. REGULATIONS are necessary.

Trains are not scheduled. What ever happened to time tables, scheduled meets and dispatchers that are no farther than 400 miles from the endpoints of their subdivisions? Railroads used to be run in an almost military manner!

I finished a 39 year career as a locomotive engineer with the NS competitor. If the work culture doesn’t change, the railroads will wither.

PSR as implemented is super-suboptimal for multitude reasons -- it was supposed to lead to more, more frequent, quicker, and shorter trains but since it's not a regulated term and Hunter isn't around to defend its meaning, NS gets away with calling _whatever-it-is-that-they're-doing_ "PSR" and noone questions it. Good on Bernie!

NS seems to be pivoting away from PSR, this week communicated that trains were no longer allowed over 10K feet long. It's a small step in the right direction.

I want to commend you for taking on this subject. You explained the components of PSR very well. What you did that is different than most is that you simply provided an overview of the most critical points related to PSR without including speculative issues that may or may not be a result of PSR. I retired last fall after 31 years in railroad operations, and was there from the beginning of the PSR era. The PSR concept has some value. The reason you operate a business is to make money, and do it in a safe and efficient way. What PSR has done is reduce the need for some of the most critical assets (locomotives etc), and dramatically reduced the employee count, by reducing the number of people that actually do the work. I do not think there is any doubt that more work is being done with fewer people, which has created more fatigue issues, and the potential to cut corners to maintain efficiency. I think that what the horrible incident in Palestine has brought to light is the overall operating conditions that are going on in the industry. My personal belief is that we are at a point now that the size of the trains has gotten out of hand, and has reduced any opportunities for improved efficiency by creating slower trains, fewer train meet opportunities, and much greater difficulty to build, and put away trains in terminals. I believe a balance can be struck that allows for greater efficiency without compromising safety and without working all locations with an absolute minimum of crews. The old saying “minimum minus one” has no place in an industry where human beings are working with massive pieces of equipment and trains that are three miles long. Again, thanks for your objectivity. I hope NS does lead the industry in changing their focus in the future. The health and well being of our rail employees, the general public, and our economy just might depend on it.

We're tired of being over worked and "asked" to do illegal things like work on our rest time. It's no longer about the customers or the employees it's all about the numbers doesn't matter if you expire on the job you're a number and in the way

E Hunter Harrison knew Exactly How Many Coffee Beans it took to Fill a Pound Can of Coffee. Railroading Today is ALL about Greed, Zero about Safety or Customers.

“We we’re the first to pivot out of it” means they are no longer pivoting because he is under oath and cannot lie so if NS was actually ending the practice even partially that would have been disclosed because it would be a great headline for him and his company. By saying “we were” that means they were at some point and clearly are not now.

I never thought I would agree with Bernie Sanders, of all people.

The only way railroads will ever function the way you’d expect a railroad to function is if they drop the emphasis on having managers with degrees and put someone in charge with experience that actually knows what they’re doing.

I really hope this ends PSR. Bring back Hub and Spoke

Well presented. Another issue is the effort of railroads to run trains with only one person in the engine. This makes absolutely no sense to me. Safety is the biggest issue.

I've never known anyone hated more than Hunter Harrison. Many people were outwardly happy when he died.

Elmo had delayed maintenance to keep trains rolling. When you lay off a huge percentage of MOW employees, bad things happen.

I cannot believe that I would ever agree with Bernie Sanders on ANYTHING! Pigs have flown!

Any CEO who is serious about "pivoting away" from PSR and threatening the possibility of ever increasing profits is going to find themselves replaced by activist investors who WILL run the company the way they want.

I would like to add a little point as a member of the rail industry. The way that PSR is described in this video is indeed the initial idea. However, no railroad in North America actually uses PSR. They'll tell you they do, but they don't. They actually do the opposite. The goals of their current practices are to reduce labour costs as those are the largest expense. That's why they run super long trains. They also don't have working schedules and only call crews into work a few hours before they start. Industry deregulation as also decreased the number of safety devices required and has allowed the over all quality of infrastructure to deteriorate drastically. While I completely agree that the class 1 freight railroads need to change their operating practices, it is my opinion that much stricter regulation is needed to ensure that the railroads have to provide good quality service and not just the service that makes them the most money

It think it was CN but could been CP, promoted a new COO. That person said his RR had allowed train velocity to get too slow and made train length longer that the siding. And they had lost focus on meeting customer needs. The over focus some railroads have on operating ratio is causing many problems. PSR is a tool not a goal.

Alan shaw is a joke...yes norfolk southern is hiring ...but the people leaving far outweighs the people that are being hired. And now they will hire anyone that has a heartbeat.

A lot of the PSR damage has already been done. One of the first things EHH did to CSX, or at least put in place before his passing was to (disrupt) infrastructure and (destroy) facilities where carload commodities could be easily switched. And as with so many other lines and facilities, once they're gone it takes an act of congress to put them back. I was still working in Atlanta at a terminal railroad that partnered with CSX. Our trains came from Tilford yard until they demolished it. The bulk of our commodities were frozen potatoes (already processed) coming from Idaho. They were in Refrigerator cars that have diesel-powered chillers on the A-end of the car. They needed refueling every 12-14 days and they were maintained here in Atlanta by "Fruit Growers' Express" FGE, a division of CSX. After Tilford yard closed, these cars were not arriving in 21 days but more like 39-48 days. Yes, they continued to move throughout the system but instead of making a quick run from Indianapolis - Chattanooga - Atlanta, they were now going to Hamlet NC, then to Waycross GA before coming back through Atlanta. And this is just one of almost a million different commodities being handled on a carload basis. The problem is, Class 1 railroads have loathed carload commodities since the early 80s. While they can still make a considerable amount of money hauling one boxcar from shipper to receiver, there's considerably less effort in hauling a LTL or intermodal train. And while one boxcar will yield 6-15x more revenue than a shipping container, mainly because the railroad cannot haul it from shipper to receiver, they can put 600 of them on one train and not have to switch it, inspect it, maintain it, etc. All they do is forklift it onto a flatcar or well and off it goes! Railroad business has changed dramatically in the last 50 years. Where companies were struggling to win back business from the Interstate Highway and others were just trying to recover from their own corporate greed. Today's railroading is emerging as a big loss in customer service and more response toward the investors. The railroads would like to feature their intermodal services because that's a choice the customer can use to ship their commodities in. But when it comes to carload service, you can use the railroad or you can do without. They're not going to ship your 220,000 lbs of commodity on a truck. If you're lucky you can get all that on 3 trucks if you like.

thank god this is finally happening, one step closer to safer railroad operations.

Mr. Shaw gave the best non-answer, that I've ever heard.

I agree with him. Pretty Stupid Railroading has been a disaster for the industry.

I normally don't have much in common with Bernie but in this case, he's exactly right. I thought it was the worst thing that ever happened to the railroads, at least safety-wise.

I said it before on another video. It goes to show that why I hate PSR and other rail fans and railroaders hate it as well. Before the East Palestine derailment, safety was something to put in place. PSR doesn’t. If you make a longer train, fewer crews, what does that do huh? It doesn’t do anything, it only jeopardizes the crews involved when it comes to longer trains and only puts them in danger if they are in a accident. PSR needs to end on all Class 1 railroads. You can’t put the railroad in danger as it was like 10-15 years ago something like that.

if it was anyone but Senator Sanders I would think it was a good idea!

The way I interpreted that statement is the NS will not let go of PSR unless they are forced to.

Thank you for having the guts to address this issue. Alan Shaw is full of crap. He will say whatever it takes. He is not committed to making railroading better. His is committed to increasing the profits of NS and enriching his own pockets in the process. 30 years ago, I went to my HS reunion in Western NC. One of my fellow classmates who was a trainman for NS told me that railroading was not the same as it used to be. That was 30 years ago! I'm know it has gotten a lot worse since. All this boils down to is corporate greed. We are back in the years of the robber barons but instead of individuals, it is Wall Street and the desire for bigger profits. One of these days, the egg is going to crack big time and then all the king's horses and all the king's men will not be able to put America back together again. Mark my word.

Politicians always love easy fixes.

I know in my area we are limited to 10k feet. The problem is really the lack of giving car man time and going more and more automated on car inspections. Automatic can’t catch some of the early signs sometimes only when it’s too late. Bearings often leak or start showing signs before getting hot, and sending cars out to get to finish trip before fixing isn’t the best. I know a customer who flips cars from NS to CSX and things fall between the cracks.

PSR equals longer and heavier trains which equals faster equipment fatigue. The train cars were never designed with the multiplying in-train forces being experienced by the aging equipment we use. We are seeing more frequent equipment failures across the board, and on top of the equipment being used in ways it was not designed for we have less then half the maintenance personnel that we used to to identify and fix these issues before it leads to something like a derailment. Often times issues are found and corridor managers still send the defective cars, for example a defective car management knew about caused a derailment in Ames, Iowa back in 2019, UP narrowly avoided a massive disaster there. That particular train had three drawbar breaks before it got half way to it's final destination, to those of you reading this who are not in the industry, that is absolutely INSANE. PSR is dangerous, they got lucky in East Palestine because they didn't kill anyone but if PSR is allowed to continue there luck will run out.

Railroad companies will not end PSR unless they can make more money otherwise.

Shaw at least tries to answer the questions somewhat, unlike Mayorkus yesterday.

what about mayor pete transportation secretary that has done absolutely nothing

The Wall Street investors are what hurt the railroads. Railroads are dependent on investors but investors are constantly telling them to cut costs. The railroads are waiting for remote control trains with NO ONE on board. If you can control a drone halfway around the world by remote control, then you can do the same with a train.

Good God get rid of it man damn 😂😂 18000 feet is getting way way to normal

If it stays, I'd suggest they get more workers to evenly distribute the workload by rotating through them to allow time for regular inspections and any necessary repairs to happen. Visibly checked as it comes in, for any obvious problems, and checked over closer once stopped, for any that aren't as clear. Only once they're done and approved, they'd be available to depart for their next stop as their turn comes up.

Only ones benefitting from PSR is the big wigs....no one else

If under PSR trains are suppose to run on fixed schedules, why are the actual schedules seem to be completely random instead? Also, not having to wait until a train is "filled" should result in shorter trains, so why are they getting longer and heavier instead? Also, based on the concept, PSR isn't the issue, but it is the railroads' willingness to run longer and heavier trains with fewer crews. This can be addressed by adding more frequent trains to the schedule while also limiting the overall length and weight of a train.

Holy shit, who paid Bernie extra to actually go at a corporation? Book sales must be down

Trains are longer slower and clogg the system. and they treat there workers poorly so now the could care less

There’s nothing worse than the management of a Class 1 railroad. Hell, we studied how poorly railroads were ran in college 40 years ago. But today’s railroads are filthy places to be. And while Senator Sanders and I would agree on very little aside from the sky being blue, kudos to him for at least asking the questions he knew wouldn’t be answered.

Another significant aspect of PSR is the single tracking of lines, as they are taxed 1% less than dual track, which increases the short term profits of the company, as well as eroding americas rail infrastructure.

Tbh when PSR was first ever thought of I knew it was gonna be a mistake that should of been removed, I can't even see any coal or Intermodal trains based out of new Orleans anymore 😢

Always hear about those east coast railroads in the news. Well don't worry just as many derailments happen out west, it's just nobody else is around to see them.

EHH could not be reached for comment. No one seems to know the area code for HELL.

Nationwide defect detector standards, installation, maintenance, testing protocols?

I am a little behind on some of your videos, but this was educational. I knew the term (PSR) but now it's more clear to me. Thanks. Cheers.

Kind of ironic a majority of the shots you used were CSX, the first Class 1 considered to be moving away from PSR. That yard of dead locomotives seemed to all be outdated models, SD60s, SD40-2s, and Dash 9s.

When Conrail was in operation scheduled trains were posted on a large sign at Horseshoe Curve with train numbers and times. So, this PSR isn't that new. Only when Harrison came from Canada and implemented it on CSX and his cutting of Hump yards, as he said they were non effective, things started to go wrong then. Now BNSF has said they do not use PSR, but have combined trains by doubling them to save on fuel costs. While it may work for one it won't work on all railroads.

Great video but I do not see an Clas 1 rr doing anything that may cut profits (and increase safety). Like most large companies, the employees are disposable, their benefits take from the bottom line, and there are plenty to choose from if they need to hire. On top of that, Congress does so little and can't risk donations (bribes) from the rr's and even if they did anything, it would be years down the road!

All it does is move the problem down the road …

For once Bernie has a position I can support 😂

Better service for the customer?? NO, The Railroads are lying, it is just the opposite. I worked for a large shortline company and as soon as the class one serving us went to PSR the service went to Hell. Deliveries were less timely and mixed up, customers waited longer for cars or cars simply were not available and often the class ones excuse was "they didn't have enough power or crews"!!!

Precision Scheduled Railroading (PSR) was the Biggest Cluster**** in the History of Railroading. It is Wrong, Dangerous, Stupid, Greedy, Terrible for Employees. 🤪

Great video, Charlie! Glad to see V12 is more than just a railfan channel! This is a must-see video!

Maybe Bernie should also ask his Buddy Warren buffet to do the same

How about doing some maintenance on the railroads as in the tracks

I hate to say it, but this was a smoke and mirrors show until someone, meaning the shareholders drop the hammer like they just did recently and/or the stocks plummet. Just my thoughts and opinions from being a 2nd generation railroader with 30 years experience. Hope and Faith that this will come to fruition. 😊🙏🤔🇺🇸

I’m not a huge fan of Sanders, but I can agree with him on this.

PSSB precision scheduled stock buybacks? ☹️😡

I’d love to work for the railroad but the no schedule thing is a deal breaker. If they can change it back to having schedules I’d happily do it

I'm a railfan from Europe, fascinated with US railroads for some time. I've been trying to understand what PSR is for the last five or so years and all I get are these vague statements about dwell time, but no concrete answers really. From that I can only assume that US railroads are trying to cheat physics by trying to use less resources ( people, fuel, equipment ) to move more stuff. As if running a train with half motive power would somehow make work needed to be done also be halved. Last time I heard, physics does not work like that. If RRs were hell-bent on reducing dwell time, they would be electrifying, using shorter trains, increasing average speed of the shipment and generally, wanting to be faster. The tradeoff is always the same - if you want to move X of stuff with half of equipment or workforce, you need to do it faster.

Yes end the greed, end PSR

To me, Precision Schedule Railroading can only work in specific areas. Like some ideals, PSR has two sides. One sides is that it can work on something like the BNSF Transcon. The second side is that it doesn't work well in the east simply because the distance between cities are shorter. Oddly for Norfolk Southern, PSR is suppose to save and increase profit. Yet to be one of Ben Franklin's famous Quotes "A penny wise, a pound foolish." Norfolk Southern is going to waste money. in a variation of Ben Franklin's quote, "A penny wiser, it is many pounds for lawyers." Same applies to the other railroads.

I mean he talks a good talk. Hope he carries it out.

I'm in Europe - don't know the full picture in the US but for what it's worth... Here PSR is a total no-no, partly because a mega freight that exeeds the length of sidings and loops would take priority over everything else. Shorter trains would have to park up while the big one rolls past them. Good luck to Amtrak trying to run anything in that situation. The general length limit in the UK is around 750m with max speeds for freights of either 60 or 75mph. In mainland Western Europe it's similar but kph - say 100-120kph. The happy spot where freights are the main traffic would be longer but not by a huge amount. Like how can you expect car drivers at grade crossings to wait for 10 minutes while a long slow train passes? They won't and - BANG! In general, here shorter/faster trains are more efficient (more trains/hr.) but less so in other ways (more drivers, etc.). There'd be some braking issues with US-style ultra-length freights too. The maths of a train's ideal length is different in the US for sure but I am certain that if you add in safety, the cost of accidents, more passengers using rail because it's safe & fast, then freight trains that are miles long are not the answer.

Clyde Whitaker the director of the rail transportation union stated... since the deregulation a no exceptions stop the train and visual inspection if a detector went off was abandoned ⁉️ A detector went off in Sebring...30 miles before the derailment. Another detector went off in Salem...10 miles from the derailment ⁉️ I believe Bernie's questions were very good ‼️

3:56 PSR = better service? GAO suggests otherwise 5:24 fewer workers, longer trains, more work, faster / less-thorough inspections ☹️😡👎

Shaw is blinking a LOT

There are also inter-sector losses within the economy. For example, with imaginary numbers, the railway investors determine they can save $10 per ton of grain shipped if they abandon community grain elevators in favor of centralized terminals. Farmers now have to pay an extra $50 per ton of grain shipped to drive it to the terminal, plus additional wear on highways. The railway has saved money, but it's a net loss for the overall economy. During the 90s my family was forced to abandon their grain farming operation after the railway abandoned town.

Outstanding precision scheduled video...Spot on...!

I don't know if NS is or not, but there's been several trains on my local NS route that runs close to me that has been less PSR and way shorter.......Hope that means they are in fact making changes

Well, im with Bernie on that issue, PSR is nothing but trouble, longer trains blocking crossings, more breakdowns (brake hose failures) enroute, crews not acknowledging hot axles, which lead to disasterous derailments, and the list goes on. (My SIL is an engineer, and he HATES PSR!)

they want more work out of fewer people. that never works out. to land a job for a railroad, its kind of like winning a lottery.

shaw bragged in december about how NS lowered their operating ratio by 530 basis points which in turn generated $10 BILLION for SHAREHOLDERS... with numbers like that PSR ain't going nowhere anytime soon

Actually PSR is good for the environment. It uses fuel more efficiently, and reduces wear-and-tear on fewer locomotives, while fewer crews makes economic sense for the railroads. These railroads need to be efficient, particularly with freight traffic increasing every year. People like Bernie Sanders have done tremendous damage to the railroads with regulations like Positive Train Control, which has cost the freight railroads $15 billion and has probably done zero to reduce accidents. PTC has sucked vast amounts of capital out of the railroads, leading to reductions in more cost-effective safety measures (car inspections, track inspections, worker training, etc.) that contributed to accidents like East Palestine.

like most people know a lot of train cars do not belong to the railroad that they are on in that case, who is responsible for the inspection and maintenance. That doesn’t fold just to Norfolk Southern there’s quite a few others. my older sister dealt with a issue with a tank car about 15 years ago. It took them six years to get to the actual owner of the car. This is all through state court. With that being said, it would be nice to know who was actually responsible for that specific car that nobody has said

A Senator who has never in his entire life held any job other than in government wants to tell those who make a profession of railroading how to do their jobs.

PSR: Problematic Scheduled Railroading

Only signed on in May of 2022, oof that's not enough time for anything. Ending PSR and Maintaining and running a railroad properly would literally take decades to fix everything. Question is do the railroads have time or will Washington keep it's promise to take the rails.

"The train will arrive when it gets there."

The freight railroads in this country are very dysfunctional and change is needed

The government needs to take over

It was definitely PSR. I work for UP and we need to stop PSR immediately. Trains are ridiculously long. It’s all about money.

I went to Austell a few days ago and the railroad ties are in very bad condition.

Great video! Very informative

great info.. tks

It is obvious they need more Defect Detectors spaced closer together.

Thanks!

Amazing that the people of Vermont keep reelecting this fellow.

Think they got the idea of PSR from the airline industry who moved away from hub and spoke in the late 90s.

PSR had nothing to do with the derailment in East Palestine, it was a mechanical failure!

I had no idea Sanders would talk about PSR, it has developed issues I would say for myself because ive experienced a couple of trains split in half because the train was too long, and trains more than likely to stall in the mountains of Virginia, but I hope all goes well on NS. V12 Productions, you should make a video about NS SD70M-2s Reactivated, NS released a handful back in service!

Never thought I'd agree with Bernie for once..