For those curious, I got a very fair and informative response from a seneye employee: Hey Sam Parker - I’m Craig - from Seneye! Awesome video and top job going to the lengths to do it! FYI The Felix device is the same hardware as the Seneye Reef. However they use their own software. The differences in Apogee/Seneye readings come in two forms. 1. PAR is a number derived from a mix of measurements taken over a range of the spectrum. A device is not equality sensitive to all parts of the spectrum. That’s why manufacturers produce relative response curves so you know what’s what. 2. Seneye is far more sensitive to blue light than Apogee. Most aquarium lights are blue heavy and white LEDs are made from blue LEDs, with an additional phosphor layer to create the white. This bumps up your blue response! So what you’re seeing here is the effect of seneye accurately reading the blue part of the spectrum whereas the apogee is not as sensitive to it so it gives a lower response. Because it’s mostly blue light, especially with LED this effect is increased. Hence why there is much more PAR with Seneye. We built our device this way because it’s specifically designed for measuring PAR in aquaria. To compare devices you also need to compare the relative response curves of the spectrum of the 3 devices. Not just the end result of the reading. We’ve done that already here.. www.seneye.com/light/par Also to note Seneye isn’t fitted with a cosine corrector which means that the beam angle when receiving light is much tighter than that of the Apogee which is fitted with one. Cosine correctors help fix readings with regards to the zenith angle of the sun. Aka you can fit it one place and the suns angle throughout the year doesn’t affect it as much. To make it a fairer test.. each sensors centre position should be in the same spot when measuring. Hope this helps explain why you see some differences. Whatever device you choose.. stick to it! The difference in readings taken in the tank with your light setup is far more important than the actual number generated between models of device. In short, cannot compare readings unless devices are the same. ----------- Certainly seems fair, what is everyone’s thoughts?

Thanks for the follow up man. That kind of inconsistency definitely turns me off them, and I’d been very close to picking one up. You’ve done us all a service. Legend.

Nice to see you document your experience with the Seneye. Personally I use the Apogee but find this interesting. BRS ran their tests and if I remember correctly said the reading were close enough. Didn't seem to be the case with your testing with such a drastic difference. Thanks for sharing.

Nice work, you’re onto something!

Legend! Thanks mate. I'm a seneye user and very much appreciated the data. Think I'll stick to using my eyeballs. The coral will tell me.

Awesome!! Picked up the MQ-510 Thank you so much!!!

Great video Sam I had the same findings I tested a seneye and a new apogee and I got hammered online by people saying the seneye is good but I found it was just too far out and inconsistent

I purchased a Seneye less than a year ago. I appreciate the BRS video, and it's depth of investigation. But I can't ignore the results you got. If you are correct, this completely turns my lighting assumptions upside down. It would be TRULY USEFUL if Seneye would weigh in on your results. Either way, thanks for the video Sam.

Great videos on par testing Sam. Although it shows the Seneye to read higher than Apogee, I feel it shows the Seneye to read consistently higher. All Seneye has to do in my view is either make the reading to be able to be calibrated to the results of the Apogee. Or provide a chart that gives an approximation of Seneye results to Apogee ones. Either would result in readings that I can accept as useful and put the Seneye in first place for me to purchase, given the $550 Australian dollar difference in price. Doing the maths to convert the results would be worth it to me given you only really need to do this once for a tank.

I just tested my tank with the apogee and found exactly what your results were getting too. Got my seneye reef around 2 months ago so that's kind of disappointing. Hopefully seneye can do something about it seems like maybe the newer models are doubling the par.

Interesting test as I've had an issue with different reading with PH, Seneye reading hi and 3 tested kits reading lower and the same.

This is a crucial blow to the Seneye. For years reefers have been relying on this unit for PAR testing, ever since Bulk Reef Supply recommended it for that purpose, or perhaps even longer. I think many people bought it mainly for that purpose. For me just in the process of starting a saltwater tank after 7-8 years being absent from saltwater and only doing freshwater, the Seneye is not an option now. I had plans doing a complete PAR mapping of my whole reef rock structure in order to decide what corals to put where. I guess I have to either considering buying another PAR testing unit or just do it "the old way".

Thanks for answering a question I had for so many years. From the price point and shape of the Lens, I am suspicious the Seney is a LUX meter that does conversion to PAR, via software.

Man just read the response. Loved the fact they know thier stuff

Great vid

I was just going to buy a Seneye for a par meter, think I need to rethink this idea..

People are fucking stupid if they're flaming you over this😂 Your content is super solid, and it's good to see you dove deeper on the topic. Keep it up🤟

Really surprising that both are so off. I shall endeavor to borrow another apogee and try again. My discrepancy last time was about 3% (2017) and the seneye unit is 4 years old.

Hi Sam just makes you wonder if there is an industry standard they should be adhering to? Food for thought!

If I recall correctly when BRS did their video, they came out with the fact that Apogee's meters were reporting wrong numbers and that they had to sort this out with them to get the proper readings. Can't remember if they were reporting lower or higher PAR though... would this explain (part of?) the discrepancies you experienced ??

Hey mate, I know this is a bit of an old video but which par meter did you end up going with? I’m trying to get my rank ready for corals and am trying to figure out which device is more accurate

I don't know what there is to flame, it seems pretty straightforward to me

Seems the new ones are now cosine corrected. I have both one lens is partially white and the other clear. The one with cosine shows 200 par more.

Love to hear what a seneye rep would have to say about this

Hey Sam I was the one that shot the guys at Seneye your video! I was worried cause my tank is 4 years old now and I have use the Seneye reef on previous builds and clients tanks for over 6 years! I use two radion gen 3 pros on ab+ for 4 years with guidance from Seneye par readings ! The tank is stable and growing well! I have found for the price point Seneye is great value for the home aquarium! I thought Seneye was slightly different from other par meters so hope you don’t mind the input from them!!! Happy reefing!!

I wonder what has changed since 2017 when BRS tested Seneye vs 2 apogee and a Li-Cor. Seems it was around 10% off which would be acceptable to me for the price difference. If you can get your hands on an Apogee SQ-420 you should test this against the others since it is in the same price catagory as the Seneye.

This weird results. BRS does a VERY thorough investigation into these PAR meters and I would trust their results. It was does in a very scientific method and they even discovered problems with the apogee 510 and their $2000 par meter that were confirmed by the engineers of the meters and had to be addressed

Well well done Parkers!!! Apogee and the other are professional (or like this) instruments and read PFFD (same PAR) scientific value. Furthermore, the sensor reading curve Apogee is better than that of the Seneye. Very simply said, if i want to buy a PAR reading tool i buy Apogee (or like this) stop!!!

That’s bananas mate. Is there any way to calibrate them and retest?

thats strange the reading is so much higher. it could be refraction from glass that the other brand isnt picking up. BRS did a review and only found it to be a tiny bit higher and close enough for cheap par meter.

I watch BRS test.. But why is it not the same result with your result..?

Can I ask you how oyu were able to get in touch with Seneye? They are the worst company I have ever dealt with for customer support! Been emailing for 4 years on and off! I have never been able to get my par reader to work and finally gave up using it al altogether! Its still placed in my tank but i suppose I have to go through whole reconnection because it a different computer now. I remember hubby having a difficult time getting slides to read at first but I think we finally go them to read! Also even if the par is wrong I guess it would still be helpful because I am trying to get my light cycle to produce equivalent par from when I was ramping it up as opposed to now because I have been running on LPS when lost the program somehow. I want go back to ramping but scared of shocking my old corals (been running lps about a year) and new coral addition. The preset lps dosnt ramp down so probably much brighter par! Noopsyche which is who I bought lights from wont contact me either to let me know what percentages are equivalent!

What about the standalone seneye spectrum version they make?

Hi Sam, hope you're well ? I saw you youtube video of your new Philips coral care led and you mentioned about removing the Orphek led bars' lenses to improve spread. Is it possible to upload or show us they video please ? Regards

Thats really interesting. Would like to know what senye responce is

So are Seneye saying their device is more accurate than an apogee measuring par in a reeftank? Because their conclusion is PAR doesnt matter, just stick to one device... so it doesnt matter if I'm measuring 250PAR with Seneye over my acros and the actual PAR reading is 125, that doesnt matter?

Okay Parker, i just received a firmware update (4.0.8) for my Seneye and it seems to fix the issue, par readings dropped significantly. Have nothing to compare but there is a change though!

Hey Parker following up too see what the seneye guys ended up saying about the test?

Seneye is a bit strange to me. I think it’s an attempt to monitor what is happening with water chemistry but is really limited in what it can monitor. The constant need to renew the slide would irritate me. I personally would not go near the brand but I am sure that some people will be ok with Seneye and I would not want to knock their choice.

After doing some investigation my conclusion is that only recent Seneye's are affected by this (par values twice as high). I approached owners of older models (+2-3 years) and theirs are fine, showing similar values as Apogee.

Love your videos Parker. I had watched the BRS PAR video before and am now wondering if possibly you missed something. Check out what he says at the 5:10 Mark. Did you have that internal software compensation option turned on? kzfaq.info/get/bejne/bM6FntiXvajGY30.html If you did I am completely baffled as to how come BRS and a few others get numbers from the the Seneye that are very close to the Apogee. Also why do you pronounce Apogee the way you do. I always assumed it was pronounced Ap-o-gee which is the dictionary word for the "highest point of development" or in space terms used as the highest orbit point from the Earth. Did the company say it was pronounced differently by them from the real word spelling?

I can just imagine all the reefers using the seneye thinking my lights are really powerfull 500par at max 😳 I’m glad I didn’t invest in one.

First, it seems like I might have wasted my money given that I only brought it for the Par meter. Never mind, I'll just halve every reading

If you were to buy a PAR meter today would you: A) buy the seneye and trust the readings it gives B) buy the seneye and divide the reading by roughly half to get similar readings to that of the Apogee C). Pay the extra for the Apogee Ps. I wonder why other videos on KZfaq aren’t reporting these huge differences. Strange.

Moral of the story - The seneye PAR meter should be called Double Bogey! Thanks mate

Here a guy doing an extensive comparison of the Seneye with an Apogee MQ-510. The Seneye is spot on: www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2626700 Parker, are you sure your Seneye got the V2 software update? Also, the BRS comparison and the guy from the link above where the Seneye both came out great use different lights than you. Could there be a specific led color in your Philips CC that the Seneye is overly sensitive for? Do you still have the Seneye and could you try it under a different light?

Well something's very wrong here, but this video can't explain what it is. The BRS video is more useful (no offence), but now anyone watching this is going ot be left bewildered.

Nerd Alert!!!

Just read the post from Seneye themselves. Something isn't right here. BRS did this 3 years ago with the Li Core, Apogee and Seneye, and the Apogee and Seneye came out even. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/bM6FntiXvajGY30.html&ab_channel=BulkReefSupply Out of interest Parker, remember that test you did way back with a 400w MH bulb at night out back? I remember thinking at the time your numbers were very low. I run 2x250w on a 4x2 tank and get 300 PAR at the bottom using the Seneye.

Just ordered apogee sq420 from u.s

It’s pronounced ap-per-g

My seneye reads low PAR smh

I think it’s pronounced ap- o - gee

Looks like the Seneye 👎