if i like the art, i seperate it. the only thing i do if i have problem with them: i dont support them with money.

The reason some people can't separate the art from the artist is that a lot of people experience music as a form of 'social connection' with the artist. And have to - to some extent - like the artist. They also feel in the art a connection that reflects something within themselves - and if this isn't mirrored in the personality of the artist - again there's another disconnect. Speaking for myself - for the most part I can separate art from the artist to an extent - but I do feel an enhanced connection when I connect with the personality of the artist in some way, it enhances the experience. Musical pleasure is 'pure' in theory, but in practice that purity is either enhanced or diluted by these extra-musical factors. I'll admit I can be influenced subtly by some things - something as simple as really evocative and imaginative cover art on an album can enhance it a bit and attract me to the listening experience a little more!

"Stop being a pussy and listen to music you enjoy." -Farvann Truer words have never been spoken on the subject of separating art from the artist. Great video man.🤘

I think everyone should have the right to make that decision for themselves. There are albums, movies, etc., that I have an extremely difficult time enjoying because I can't separate the art from the artist. Thus, there is music that I think is good but can't stomach because I am so against what the artist stands for that I'm unable to disconnect them no matter how hard I try. Other people are able to do so and there are situations I which I can do that while others cannot.

There are a lot of examples in classical music. Wagner, Mozart, Gesualdo, etc. It's a thin line between a genius and madman.

The video on NSBM and now this. This is why I love Farvann, he is able to take heated topics and break them down objectively, discuss and analyze them calmly and give a final judgement. Most people on the internet can't do that and just scream at each other through a screen, but balance and civil discussion like this are the best way to do online discourse about anything because it hears both sides and respects everyone.

To me the most important is if your means of consuming their art ist supporting the artist. Streaming their music, buying their CDs or going to their shows is directly supporting the artist, not just the art. The only way to consume art without supporting the artist is listening to CDs you already bought or illegally downloading their music and never engaging in any conversation about it with anyone

Definitely want a video on Dagon. Inquisition is one of my favourite bands, and I own quite a few shirts I’m a little afraid to wear in public. Then I remember nobody in my town listens to black metal. 🤷🏻

Thanks for the video! Before the war I wasn't so strict in my tastes, though back then I understood that a piece of an art definitely carries a piece of its artist's soul. But now when every other night I have to sleep in the subway because of missile attacks and read about deaths every day, well, I pay a special attention to what this or that band say about situation in my home.

Farvann, I think you did a great job of explaining the different angles of this topic. The structures made perfect sense. Music and art is up for interpretation and it means something different for everybody, so go enjoy black metal people!🤘🌲🤘 Nice video Farvann!

Great video man. Really informative that pushes each individual to think out of the box and decide for themselves

It's crazy that the singer of a pop rock band, a pop rock band i liked alot back in the early and mid 2000s, Ian Watkins, ended up doing something more heinous than any of these black metal singers could touch. The ability to separate the art from the artist in that case is impossible for me. I feel so much for the other people in that band that dedicated their lives to that project for decades.

As a Christian and a fan of all genres of heavy metal, I often wonder about this. Thank you for the video. I think the answer is all of the above. I had a friend recommend Deathspell Omega, which I listened to a few albums. Then I heard the rumors about who might be in the band. I will still listen to them, but I don't pay for their work directly (KZfaq). Most other bands I listen too. The music is there for enjoyment and entertainment, I may disagree with the artist, but it's their story and their art. I'm just in for the ride.

You have a lot of depth Farvann and I love when your videos get psychological or possibly philosophical. Regarding what you said lately the media talks about Rammstein being very problematic I know you like their art and so do I big fan. Back in my country there s no info regarding the band s new problems. I'd like to hear your take on this.🖤

I have thought about this topic many times, this was really interesting. Please make more videos that are related to philosophical stuff, they're great!

Personally I always separated myself from the art itself, then I don't have to ask pointless questions like "does this artist have similar opinions than mine?"

Another banger farvann, definitely agree on the second hypothesis. Even when an artist may have a set in stone meaning for the art they produce, the beauty of art means i can interpret it through my own lens, using my experiences and beliefs to colour what it means to me. They might say "cleave down the writhing maggot" and to me its "kill the hatred within us all" or something (pretty dramatic example but you get my point lmao)

Separating art from the artist is a personal choose its up the listener

Very well done video here!! One of the most concise views ive seen/heard on this ongoing current topic of discussion in modern society

It's great that you've covered this topic, thanks.

For me I have a set of rules I follow when it comes to supporting artists, whether they are musicians, painters, or writers. I don’t financially support artists who support things that I am fundamentally against or if that artist is against my existence as a human being. I’m unfortunate in the fact that I was born with everything about me being fundamentally different, from my sexuality to having learning and behavioural disabilities. Some people take issue with that even though I didn’t choose any of this, and think I don’t deserve to be treated like a human. I don’t have control over what people think about my right to live but I do have control over whether I financially support those people or not. My rules on this are pretty simple, if an artist hates me for simply breathing then I won’t give them money. If they are dead or no longer make money off their work I may buy a few of their products if I like them.

That was a great video ! Great topic to discuss ! In my own opinion, that doesn't really matter to anything but that's ok, I really agree with hypothesis 2, I belive the art and the artist is connected even if not on a direct level, art is something singular and unique (in some cases more then others) that I believe can only be created by the artist because of his thougts about the world, his views, his influences and life experiences, therefore connecting the art and the artist even if the art is not directly connected or talks abour the "problematic" side of the artist (probably Burzum being a good example) Another view I have from this topic is that most people only talk about it when the artist is indeed problematic, like having commited crimes or extreme politcal views etc, because when we talk about others artists who have a more "normal" or "non-problematic" view of the world people don't really seem to be concerned about connecting art with the artist, for example, when a artist with a mental illness develops a work people tend to connect both because the artist problem made him see things in his own way and create his art (I hope I'm making my point here), the biggest example of this point is probably Van Gogh which is credited for having and singular view of the world and colors, reflected on his paitings, it is certainly known by most people that he had severe mental problems and people a lot of times credit his way of paiting and representing a view to his troubled and ill way of seeing life and the universe, therefore connecting art and the artist. Or another example is Hitler and his paitings, which tend to be most about landscapes and realism and nothing to do with politics yet people don't really feel comfortable apprecianting the art because of the man who did it (I'm not defending Hitler by any means I'm just talking about art and artist) In conclusion, I do believe art is always connected with the artist even if in a non-direct way because is the artist that crafts the art and it's just one mind doing so therefore connecting both even if the artist wasn't having his thoughts on his "problematic" views during the crafting. This was a very interesting topic to write about and I hope to read more about it in the comments.

very insightful and interesting commentary on the topic, YES, your english is great. Commenting for youtube engagement because everyone in the scene needs your content

It's awesome that you covered this subject. It's not talked about in-depth very often in this way. You should defiinitely make more philosophical videos, always really enjoy hearing your takes. Also gotta say that I love how you somehow brought the big bang and programming into this 🤣

I love it when people dive into the psychology of art. Well done. I'm a black/doom vocalist and lyricist. I agree completely with hypothesis 2 in my case. My emotion regarding the world and life and people inspire my art and my beliefs. But my art is not connected to my beliefs.

If you like music, just listen to music. People will never be fully aligned with your values, so try to like Albums and music instead of bands, regardless of your ideology or World perspective.

Hello Farvann, you raised a very important topic, and I respect your open minded aproach. Also I like your videos about black metal where you make joke about the topic, those can make joke from a topic who really understands it, I think you transcended the “black metal” phenomenon and able to view it from a different pespective. This is unique, keep this approach.

Comments for the comment god! Thanks for your approach. Always glad to see you getting onto topics you think are worth talking about, difficult or not. Klasse 👍

A good topic to discuss! Personally, I can separate the art from the artist. But if I have a problem with the artist being it his ideology or things he did I will not support him, be it financially, by wearing merch or even recommending him to other people. You can't help to be touched by the music you like and that's ok the bigger question is if you want to support someone you don't agree with or dislike what he has done. So for example I really like the music ofTaake, but I dislike the things he has done and said. In that case I'll listen to them in ways were I don't financially support him (buying his cd's second hand so he doesn't get my money). That being said bands that are directly making music about their problematic traits I don't listen to at all.

Making art is also political as everything in life and the way you use public space to express yourself politically as an artist is important. As an audiophile I can definitely enjoy someone's music even if I'm against the person's ideologies/background etc, however I also consider important the way someone chose to do that -politically-. For example I'm all about downloading a nazi's music for free -if you're so hooked by what you listen- instead of buying their albums, supporting their concerts, buying their merch etc. In general tho its important to not forget the history and not allow these ideologies to be expressed without an answer

Exactly the same opinion I had before watching this video. Good one Farvann!

Wahrscheinlich das beste Video das ich zu diesem Thema gesehen habe und danke das du Faust aufgreifst…. Der wird oft außen vor gelassen

For me personally it's a bit all over the place however I usually find it easier to separate criminals from their art as opposed to political opinions. With criminals it's usually a one time offense, it's obvious what they've done is bad and they usually will recieve some form of punishment for it(not that that makes what they did in the first place ok). It feels more cut and dry to me. With nsbm or bands with nazi members I find it much harder to seperate them, even if the music itself does not contain these themes. I am queer and autistic and I do not want to engage with a group of people that less than 100 years ago would have included myself and many of my friends in their genocide. Unlike a criminal case I feel the line between music and political opinion is much more blurred and it's not a case of one event that has happened and transpired but something more constant and residual. Another distinction I make too is who is driving the band forwards and who is the creative force behind the band, if a band one time had a nazi member play with them but it was temporary then that doesn't bother me so much compared to a founding member that is pretty much the creative direction behind the band. This being said there are exceptions, some bands I like I'm aware may have nazi connections but chose not to not research them so I can just enjoy them. I saw Emperor live last year and they brought Faust on stage for a few songs and while overall it was the best live show I've ever seen it definitely felt odd when he was playing. I would also never pay to see certain criminals live, the fact that Inquisition and Gorgoroth are both still headlining festivals despite both containing sex offenders absolutely angers me. I definitely maintain you do have to have some questionable sense of morality to get into black metal lmao, where the line is drawn is different for everybody and people should not be judged for what they choose not to tolerate.

Compliments on the video. I recently found out that Reddit has a whole section on asking " is band x okay to listen to?". I was really surprised by that, and a lot of people nowadays don't tend to think for themselves anymore. That's a reason why bands get "cancelled" quickly because people just follow the herd and don't think for themselves. Which is funny if you listen to BM, because being/thinking different is a fundamental aspect of BM. It's good that you try to make people think again. I also think it's funny how much controversy there is in BM. It's a genre about satan and death, created by teenagers from northern Europe. What would you expect?

Thank you for this video topic. Since the events around Dagon I feel a little bit uneasy wearing my Inquisition patches - but I love their music and continue to wear the patches. But in the meantime it took some inner debate and reflection. Deshalb: Dickes Danke, wie du das Thema in Worte gefasst hast. Und ein extra Video über den Inquisition-Fall wäre ebenso wünschenswert 👍🏻

I love your content man and keep up the great work

I think what was missing here is the spread of the music by problematic people. If you personally can separate art from artist that's great, but doesn't mean everyone else can. Seeing people you respect wearing merch or listening to music from a nazi for example; the casual observer does not see your brainstate when you engage with the music, only that you are doing it, which normalizes the artist. A tacit endorsement is an endorsement nonetheless, and their ideologies come with it whether you intend it to or not unfortunately. And this is especially true for influencers.

Sometimes it sucks to have to try to separate. But I learned to because I love burzums music a lot. With my favorite album in particular being Det som engang var. but I haven’t really found anyone else that sounds at least almost exactly the same, but im open to some recommendations. I just don’t agree with how varg is at all, but at the same time burzum is one of my favorite black metal

This is a brilliant and nuanced explanation of your theory.

I like your videos a lot! It seems you do them very spontaneously and in only one take, without many cuts, I like that. And I agree with you! Arts belongs to the public! We "stole" it from the artist from the moment we make a connection with it and perceive it in an unique way.

I actually never given it too much thought but one thing comes to mind is how can i separate art from the artist when the artist himself didn't do so!... Anyway, nice topic, and channel. You have a new subscriber here, i have yet to watch your videos. Keep it up 😉👌

I think both problematic traits and art come from the environment in which the person was raised in. Art is there for the person to vent their frustration and, of course, produce music, paintings, you name it. Half the time when the person was making art they didn’t know what would come out and in what form. Art is innocent expression. I still listen to Burzum, knowing what Varg did, because I appreciate the results that came from his creative side of his brain, not his self-destructive side. We all have this Yin-Yang. It all depends on which little voice you end up listening in the heat of the moment.

Very good topic. I´ve found myself a few times in that position, didn´t really know what to do. Thanks

finally someone smart makes interesting videos on this stuff, keep it up man

Good that you mentioned "artist and art have always been separated in first place". Back in 50s/60s/70s people didn't care about the artists' private life. Even Nergal of Behemoth said in an interview that Elvis Presley, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones etc. would be cancelled as soon as possible if they were about to start their careers nowadays. Personally I don't pay attention to artists' beliefs, private life, controversies etc. because the art matters to me. When it comes to political themes in music, I just listen to the music, sometimes try to understand the message. Also, I appreciate when the political art is made with a passion and honest connection with the ideologies, no matter if it's left-winged or right-winged. Btw, what's that band you have a shirt of? The logo looks beautiful :D

waiting for black metal 2 to be released

Tolle Erklärung, Farvann! 🤘

No matter which hypothesis is correct, I feel extremely uneasy about offering my direct financial support, however insignificant, to people who actively promote questionable causes. Even if their art doesn’t reflect their ideologies. That being said, I do realize that a lot of cases of questionable behavior and beliefs could simply never become known to the general public. And I also realize that a lot of great artists of the past could have easily gotten blacklisted according to my approach, had social media and other means of exposure existed in their day… Fully agree with Farvann - there is no single right answer to this dilemma

I always felt it's only truly inseparable is if what you find problematic is in the lyric material

People always talk about separating art from the artist in metal becasue of people like Varg or Faust. But no one see issue in for example - modern rap music. Rapers are pretty often out of law, using drugs and other stuff but this is totally fine to society. Imo non metal people should stop demonizing metal and think more widely!

Good vid, this is a topic many content creators are too afraid to discuss, but not you Mr. Farvann. Appreciate your discourse on this important subject! Music is meant to be for all, and a few shitbags can't ruin it for the rest of us.

Famine from Peste Noire has said some very outlandish shit during the years, but god his music and albums (aside from Split) are S tier products

In my opinion I can separate art and artist. BUT my problem is to support such artists now! My example: when I start to listen to Black Metal end of the 90s ( damn i am to old…) I want to listen so everything what is possible. And then I come to Burzum. I geared from a lot of people that said to me how good the old albums are. But can I now buy a record from him and support him? I would say no. So until now I never buy a Burzum record. Maybe buy a used one could me a solution for me? Different case. I bought a Album from a band I want to Name here. Years later they switched to the NSBM. Can I still hear them? Yes because the support is done and no new support. All in all it’s hard to judge und decide

A little something I'd like to add would be that looking at (black) metal, especially from an outsiders perspective, might make it easy to draw a connection between fast, dark and sometimes disturbing music and a musician who's actually a murderer or whatnot himself. However, it is not like metal as a music (or artistic in general) genre has a monopole on problematic people; there's concerning personalitites in every musical scene, even the most peaceful sounding ones. They might be real scumbags, but still are able to create something beautiful, pretty and widely accepted.

that last bit at the end was perfect!

Interesting video. Just a couple weeks ago there was a band named Panzerfaust who was canceled from a gig for their beliefs. Uada backed them and said these claims were ridiculous. Panzerfaust said they were a political but People have argued that their name and going to the Canadian truck convoy. Others argue they’re signed by a German label and they hate all political sides of government. Anywho keep them coming man, you’re the best.

Your converting theory was beautiful! And my personal view on this subject is that music is just a deep way of speaking about our deepest feelings. An artist has multiple feelings meaning that a murder may have his dark desire but that typically isn't the sole emotion. They may be cold bloodied towards others but have the brightest, heck the warmest feeling towards music that they just scream that love in that most well spoken way imaginable 🌈 So, while listening to a song you may hear a few chords that speak about their dark side but you may also hear the brighterside about whomever. While we all truly know very little I believe it depends on the song. I have to say again your theory of converting from the universe, God, Goddess or whatever has opened my mind! Love it! ❤

I'm almost communist, I'm vegan and feminist, but I really love such groups as Kristallnacht, Grausamkeit, Satanic Warmaster, Moonblood and so on. JUST BECAUSE they created wonderful, very atmospheric music and had pretty beautiful vocals. Sooo... I think you can love art and hate personality. Cause experience and natural abilities, not their stupid beliefs, made them talented.

Art is magic. When the art becomes bigger than the artist and becomes timeless and enjoyed for generations...that is magic in its purest form. Art is magic because it makes you FEEL something.

very good idea at the end. our teacher always used to tell us that a book's history starts only after it is released, and its fate is decided by the readers, not the writer

as a norwegian i got to say the way you said varg vikernes sounded norwegian.

Funny thing is: if you buy an NSBM shirt in the US, big chance it was stamped by a Mexican in the factory lmfao

That meow in the end really touched me

Very interesting video. According to me we can seperate art from the problematic person ( but does being able of doing it means having to do it ? ) We can if we ignore facts, that's also why sometimes I prefer to not know a lot about people behind art, because I used to be disappointed when I met some rappers I listened to. Their music being solid to me doesn't mean they were no longer humans, so yes, you could experiment disappointing. And it's sometimes hard to seperate art from the person when it's personal. Imagine a rapper or a singer killed someone, well you might be more comfortable to listen to him than if he was rude with you in real life after a concert for example. Because we can all find excuses for people ( or not ), and we could manipulate reality to become something more acceptable. According to me we all live in our self reality, and the reality is a kind of mix of ours. That's like memories, they could have been changed by what people told us. A simple example: kind of hard to most of us to remember facts when we were 2 years old. So if someone told us at 6 years old something, how, as an adult, could we remember if memories we have are real or just a false memory induced by what someone told us when we were 6 years old ? We can if the piece of art is not all about a single person, like a movie, it's hard to seperate when it's a single singer and when his/her art was not problematic, but is now perceived as problematic, since a relation between the problem and the art seems quite obvious now. I'm thinking about R. Kelly, I always loved his music and thought he was quite obsessed with women and sex in general, but there's a difference about someone who is obsessed with this and respect them, and him. So after I learned the truth, each time I listened to a song of him, as it was always about the same subject, it took another dimension. About art and problematic person linked, I would talk about his video Cookie. While everything appeared soft in his first area, this video has a totally different vibe, far from a love song and more like a sex song. We can if we are agree with the problematic person. Which means we are a problematic person. But as long as we're not famous probably no one would know it. Neither ourselves. And we can if it's a movie. As on a movie set there's always, or most of the time, ton of people. So we kind of accept the idea some of them are problematic people, it's just mathematics. Hard to be around 1 000 people and all of them being good people... And art created is a mix of all these people it's easier to appreciate it even if one of them is a problematic person. Example I have in head is Chinatown. Except a moment director appeared in a movie, most of the time it's all about Jack Nicholson ( and a great movie if you ask me ), you really have to know movies to know which director is for this or that one. While when you buy an album with single artist on the front it's not the same. And we also can when people are too talented no matter what. I could talk again about R.Kelly. Because obviously facts are facts. But from a personal and self-centered point of view, I was pained to learn it had to be a talented artist ( at least to me ) who did that. I had a moment in which I selfishly thought I would have preferred a " bad artist " did it. As if it's about a bad artist I would have been just pained by the facts. While if I do like an artist I'm also pained by the fact I could no longer appreciate as how I did before. There's also something else to me: we can when the problematic fact is subjet to interpretation. Michael Jackson, Tupac, Mike Tyson. A lot of fog on their accusations, a lot of different versions. While I only heard one version about Roman Polanski. Sometimes the problem is not an artist or a sportive, but his entourage. When you're famous you often got a lot of people with you. Some of them might trying to abuse your groupies for example. So without knowing it you might have created a dangerous situation for a female who thought she was safe with her idol while there were other people with bad intentions. It's also about how we're trying to appreciate things. Some of them are more appreciated by our limbic brain, our emotions, and our emotions could be affected by how we perceive reality. So if someone is a terrible person to us, it could affect us about how we feel his/her art. If we're talking about things we appreciate by our neocortex, which means being Cartesian, we could both accept a person being awful, and his/her art brilliant. And deal with the fact the one who have to be punished is this person for his/her behavior. Not us. And if we could no longer appreciate his/her art for morale reasons while we would have been morale all way long it could be seens a self punishment for free. As long as the art itself is not related to the problematic person it could be okay to appreciate it. But knowing it could be okay doesn't mean we could all appreciate it. Because we're all different, some ones are more emotive, or more emotive about some subjects, like children, or pets. To finish I would have to say that to me it is easier to appreciate a collaborative work like a movie for example, rather than an album, even if it is a collaborative work, as the problematic people, if being the singer, would be the center of attention all the time. And a voice is very personal, so how to seperate a singer from the rest of him/her ? As it's supposed to be personal in general ? While actors are actors, they play characters. Some singers could play characters, but not necessary. It's not obvious, while movie characters are.

I love Varg!

My ultra-condensed take on such a tricky point is that everything is connected so you cannot separate art from the artist. Even if art follows its own path afther being released (in literature that' s the theory of reception, and it's so deep you can lose an aircraft carrier into it), someone created it. Even if their motivations are taken aside, it's an action you can't deny. Or put it simply: if I give a roundhouse kick to my neighbour I can't unkick him after that. Even if it's a kick wreathed with technique and aestethical beuty, something only seen in legends, it was me who kicked the neighbour. But this doesn't EVER justify the culture of cancellation... But let's not open that watermelon (it sounds way better in Spanish)

you the man Farvann

Interesting topic and well done video.

I saw the title of this video and I was like "Oh man Farvann would never make a risky video like this" Oh wait...Good to see you tackling the topic even at the risk of the downvotes.

Ironically the very last thing you say about the topic in the video is the one I agree the most with. I will listen to a band with what people consider "morally wrong" lyrics if I enjoy the music. A great example of this is Malevolent Creation's "They Breed", most of the lyrics are fine up until the very end of the song where a slur is uttered and some people would and in fact have stopped listening to the band just because of that. However for me, it is actually the song that made me want to listen to the band more, why? Not because I think the lyrics is some great message, but because of the way things physically sound. The vocals, guitars, bass and drums, the way they all simply sound to me is worth me ignoring anything in the lyrics just simply because I enjoy the music so much. So I say, yes. Just don't be a pussy and listen to music if you enjoy it, because just like following someone on social media, listening to a song and enjoying the way it SOUNDS does not mean by default you share or support any of the beliefs of the actual creator, and personally I don't think the song even reflects what the artist believes, but that's a whole other story.

Great video and great topic. I like to think that metalheads are different than other people and in "our" world things like this doesn't matter, we don't live in Hollywood where saying something unpopular can destroy your career and close all the doors.

I realy like how you let everyone decide on their own. I have the same opinion though

This is a tricky topic, and I’m glad that you weighed in on this discussion, Farvann. I’m newer to black metal, so my example will be different, but shows my thought process. In high school I fell in love with the galloping riffs and soaring vocals of Iced Earth. As someone who is more in the classical liberal/libertarian way of thought, I found it interesting when Jon Schaffer (founding member and rhythm guitarist for Iced Earth) was creating a project called Sons of Liberty. I gave it a listen, and my immediate thought was “the riffs are cool but this is a lot of bullshit right wing (American, not European) propaganda.” I found a chat board that Jon lead on FB by accident, and lo and behold I found myself swimming in a far right extremist chat room - think Alex Jones level. I closed that window and never opened it again. Anyway, back to my point, did this change my opinion of Iced Earth? No. Iced Earth never really discussed those topics and you can tell he tried to keep that out of his art. However, it definitely lead me to never listen to his side projects ever again, since I knew it was right wing extremism on display. Anyway, it did not surprise me at all when it was revealed that Jon Schaffer was at the Capitol on January 6th. I’ll still listen to Iced Earth, but I probably won’t wear any of their old merch that I have in public ever again. So tl;dr: I can separate the art and artist so long as the art doesn’t directly discuss the troublesome issue itself or more accurately try to influence people to join them in that troublesome way of life.

I separate quite alot I think, but theres a few things like animal abuse, phedophilia and rape that just makes me loose interest.

Cool ... It's cool that you have this idea. I thought it seemed to only me that creativity is from the universe.

"Art is greater than the artist", and you explaination of it, sounds a lot like the post-modernistic phenomena "The death of the author (artist)"

I think that this kind of video need to be much longer, because while everything you mentioned was on point, you didn't mention time, or how the rest of the band acts after the show of the trait. For example watain, a very extreme black metal band, had a member who happened to salute with ns ways in a photoshooting, after that, he got kicked out, and was criticized by the rest of the band, this is a time where you can separate the art from the artist. Another case would be, if I learn about an artist who is a murderer, then i will run through his songs that i like and see the lyrics, if they are connected then i wipl never be able to see the artist the same way, if not then i will separate him from the art but i won't support him in live shows etc. Apart from all of them though, i will never be able to see a case like of varg vikernes like an artist ever again and i won't be able to separate him from his art. Greetings from Greece😁

Very well done video dude!!! I would say that very last statement fits the bill, and cancel culture and outside virtue signaling should never influence what you listen to in personal preference.

If I like the music I just listen to it and enjoy

I love your take on universal energy conversion. Kinda blew my mind a little. Haven't thought about those kinds of things in a while because I was too busy listening to hardcore punk and drinking booze lol.

I always separate the art and the artist if it's something I like. I do this with a band, I dunno if you know it, called Durbatuluk. The music is great but the guy behind it is too funny and too nice to be a black metalhead /joking 😂😂 I think that if you like something and the artist doesn't make the final product part of their problematic trait you should totally separate the two. I mean at the end of the day we experience the final product so we shouldn't care about anything else. Obviously I would think that if that product in any case supports the artist to do something of its problematic trait, like helping the artist to get financiary support for maybe an extremist act then I would stop "buying" that product to stop supporting problematic things. I wouldn't give money to Varg to buy a lighter or to Gaahl to buy a knife or whatever, y'know?

I’ve been a devout Christian and a black metal fan ever since I discovered it as a kid when MTV would play it occasionally. Gorgoroth was a band I adored but had no idea they were the extreme edgy Satanists that they were. I still respect it but I don’t listen to it a lot now. Then there’s Deicide, I torrented them ages ago and it was labeled “Decide.” Imagine my shock when KZfaq becomes a thing and see it’s actually Deicide and see the lyrics lol. Long story short, it’s easy in the metal genre to not even care or notice any message with a lot of bands. Since lyrics are the only written message it’s usually not even important in some bands so easy to ignore.

I don't need to separate the art from the artist because I agree with him

Very good points.

My biggest problem with separating art from artist is right here, in the black metal scene. Black metal has giant problem with nazis. By listening to their output, even if you don't support them directly, you are creating a save space for them, where they can freely express themselves. The result is that i, a person of colour who likes black metal, am not feeling comfortable attending black metal concerts because chances are that there are gonna be at least few nazis. It's the paradox of tolerance.

I think that art should always be free and uncensored. However, having artistic freedom also means that there are consequences to your artistic expression. For the same reason someone should be free to express themselves artistically, others should be free to choose whether they consume your art or refuse it. As a side note, I am making a clear distinction between art and propaganda. Art stands on its own, and serves itself, propaganda ( such as nsbm) primarily serves to promote a political agenda, one that I refuse to support in any case. Ps I refuse to listen to Burzum. Not because I think Varg is sn idiot, but because I think the music is amateurist rubbish 😂

Awesome Korgonthurus shirt!

Fortunately, the opening of the genre has also given many artists with excellent works that concern us only for their music.

If the music is different from the musicians/band: hell yes, if the music is used to spread disgusting ideologies: hell no. That's my way of handling it.

Oh, man. Farvann spent a week in the forest and transformed into Philosophervann again. 🤔 This is a very interesting video. I have two thoughts... 1. What you said about "the art becomes bigger than the artist" is true. Part of the meaning of a song is what the artist puts into it, and part of the meaning is what the listener takes out of it. And if the listener interprets the lyrics differently than the artist does, he may be misjudging the art, the artist, or both. This makes it all the harder to answer the question of separating art from artist; maybe the words *are* harmless, and *I'm* "problematic" because I'm seeing something in the song which isn't really there. Or maybe the words *are* harmful, and I'm too naive to see it. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder; so is everything else you might find in art. 2. I think there are three factors to consider: my opinion of the art, my opinion of the artist, and my behavior toward the art (will I buy it, will I listen to it, etc.). I think sometimes people confuse changing their *behavior* with changing their opinion of the art itself. For example: Louis: "That's a nice painting. I will buy it." Farvann: "That painting was done by a man with a mustache who died in 1945." Louis: "Oh, he was evil. I won't buy it after all." "Now I won't buy it" is not the same thing as "Now I think the painting is ugly." I can judge the art (good painting) and the artist (bad person) separately. Refusing to buy the art based on the artist has nothing to do with my judgement of the art itself in this case. TL;DR version: Welcome back from your trip. Nice video! Still waiting for the Sovlmate app. 🤘🙂

Do the inquisition focused video! That’d be hella interesting

Never have I given a shit about the artist while discovering new music. If the music is good enough I become interested in the artist, and if I like what I find, great. If I don't, shit the music is still good.

You can try and separate art from the artist all you like but the fact remains is that the art wouldn't exist without the artist in the first place. Its impossible to seperate them logically speaking, but we can pretend if it make us feel better. What I do is that I recognize that everyone is nuanced, and that just because some guy did some bad thing doesn't mean he's a villain who only does bad things and can't change.

i separate it always. i don’t care what the musicians do, if the music sounds good, i’m buying it. edit: yes, even when the lyrics and topics of the band are “problematic” i don’t care. good music = take my money

@Farvann I think this is a very important topic. At least to me. For example I love the first discs of Burzum (Burzum/Aske and Det Som Engang Var) but I don’t like the person of Vikernes AT ALL. So it’s a bit difficult for me even If I can’t help myself but literally adore the music of theses two albums. On an other hand, I’m a big fan of Nokturnal Mortum, which has always made excellent music, even with their NeChrist album, which is the most NSBM album they ever made. Since, they have changed their position and made a statement in which they took distance with the Pagan Front, considering this was a part of their past and that they were no longer a NSBM band. It was a great relief for me. And now, I feel close to them much more than when they used to sing The Call Of The Aryan Spirit. Thank you for your cleared hypothesis Farvann. Cheers! Baptiste

Interesting and cool video and a cooler shirt lol! Which band is that man?

I don't necessarily separate the art from the artist, I just don't give a fuck in most cases. I listen to a lot of NSBM and don't agree with them politically, but I also listen to a lot of Satanic bands and don't agree with them religiously.

Nah varg s fine

I always love videos discussing this subject, because I do think its an important one at times. Obviously its not an issue for most artists, because most artists are just normal people. But there is art out there, and some of it can be amazing, yet the people might be really terrible humans. And it is one that I have always struggled with. I think it's largely because there are many artists I have avoided because of the artist. I usually do it if the two are directly connected, as in the third example. Especially being a minority myself, I have no desire to listen to a bunch of Nazis sing about how much they want to kill me. Yet theres also a lot of artists where it is completely separate that made me decide to not engage in anything they do. Even if I do it for free in a way that doesnt benefit them. I dont remember how it came up, but about a year ago, I remembered about the band Lostprophets. I loved them in middle school, and had a song stuck in my head, so I loaded it up. I dont think I would listen to it much anymore simply for the fact that its not something I am interested in anymore, but I also just kept remembering that the lead singer is a peadophile. Even though the art and the problem with the artist have nothing to do with each other, I didnt want to listen to it again just for that alone. There is so much out there I will never experience, that I would generally just rather go support someone who isnt problematic... Yet I would be hypocritical to tell others to. Especially when I sometimes am guilty of enjoying things from terrible people. I think a great personal example is H. P. Lovecraft. He was extremely racist, and its at least rumored he was even seen as extremely racist even for his time. He even wrote about it. Yet I love his stories. He is considered the creator of cosmic horror. The Cthulhu mythos are amazing and deep and I love the way its built over multiple stories. I personally own a big book with almost everything he has written. So it is a weird thought to have every now and then when I think about how I wont do anything with one artist because of things they have said outside of their art, but then will read Lovecraft. And I think thats why I really like it when people do say there is no real answer. Because even as humans, we arent perfect. We arent always as steadfast in our own beliefs and practices.

If lyrics are okay then I can separate art from artist. If lyrics contain their views that clash with me then I can't.